UNIVERSAL SOCIAL CHARGE (USC)

woody1 · 13-12-2010 11:41am

quote "I sympathise with that situation. However... what else is the government to do? We spent 49 Billion in 2010 while raising only 31 billion in taxes. The markets have pretty much closed to us for further borrowing at affordable rates. So what do we do?

a) raise taxes a huge amount on everybody
b) cut social welfare to almost nothing for everybody
c) fire most of our public sector
d) do a a small amount of all 3 options

Yes, feel free to be angry at the government for getting us to be here; but now that we are here, what do we do? "

i would totally agree with point D mate. but seeing as some families with medical cards are going to be down up to 10% of their weekly income because of this particular measure i fail to see it as a small amount of anything..it is in fact a very significant tax on a group of people without the means to pay it

im not an economist so i wouldnt be big on ideas for alternatives , i thought the 15 grand cut the ministers took was paltry in the overall scheme of things, i was hoping for the senior civil servants to all be cut back to a single point 150k or something but seeing as their the ones that write the budget that was probably a bit much to expect...

to be honest whilst i dont agree with the usc being applied to medical card holders if it was even applied at a reduced rate say 4% instead of 7% itd be slightly easier to take

Charisteas · 19-12-2010 1:30am

lmaopml wrote: »

Yes, unfortunately you used to be exempt from the Health levy if you earned less than 500euro per week in 2010. The Health levy was at a rate of 2%...

Those who earned €500.01 weren't though, so it was kinda unfair in that regard too - it meant they paid an extra 2% per week which worked out at 10euro per week Health Levy or 520euro per annum....for being barely a penny over.

Actually i beleive that the Health Levy (sometimes called Health Contribution) was set at 4% on all earnings above €26000 up to €75,036, and 5% on earnings over €75,036. So if you were earning €500.01 per week, you would have been paying €20 a week for this.

The income levy is at 2%.

P.R.S.I is at 0% for the first €127 per week, and then 4% on anything more than €127.

But on a lot of peoples payslips, the Health Levy and PRSI are calculated together as one lump deduction, and just listed as PRSI.

Gael23 · 29-12-2010 12:25am

This may have been asked already ,Havent read all the thread:
Take an elderly married couple on a small private pension supplemented by the state pension. Do they pay the USC on their total income or only income from their employment pension?

pigeonbutler · 29-12-2010 1:12pm

ryanf1 wrote: »

This may have been asked already ,Havent read all the thread:
Take an elderly married couple on a small private pension supplemented by the state pension. Do they pay the USC on their total income or only income from their employment pension?

State pension is exempt. So only private pension is subject to the charge.

USC is applied at a max rate of 4% for over over-70's.

AlekSmart · 30-12-2010 7:51pm

The problem with the medical card system is that it creates a huge barrier to work or to make more via overtime if in a low paid position.

The problem for dowlingm and many other posters who beaver away under a foreign flag,is the somewhat skewed national perception of "work".

Ireland,currently operates the EU derived "Working Time Dirtective at it`s most restrictive level,with average working time limits of 48hours over 17 weeks and various other restrictions as to rest periods and availability.

There is little hope of this country working it`s way out of depression unless the Government moves to suspend various elements of this nonsensical restrictive law.

You`ll not find many Chinese worrying about a €1,500 fine for working over their hours......:o

WowieZowie · 10-01-2011 1:09am

I worked in Ireland for last 3 years. Hard, physical work for average 290e/week. I live in Dublin.
I escaped from Poland becouse mad taxation and very high, forced social security (which gives you back almost nothing), which makes work of most people non-profitable.
On my first payslip this year I've realized USC, checked what is that, and become realy sad, becouse I see now the same mistakes in Irish politics which I saw in Poland. Higher taxation = less money on market = less investments = less jobs = worse everywhere (maybe not in bank sector, which we pay down alltogether).
Conclusion: Many friends told me: "If you don't have 39 hours/week, as you suppose to have (contract), go to Social Welfare, they will refund you something." I was says "No! I'm not in Ireland to ask social welfare for anything but to take proper money for proper work". Now... it has no point anymore. Irish government start to steal my money like polish one. New taxes, mad prices for petrol (when I came here was 1euro/liter...), less jobs.
Wake up Irish people! You had great, free (political and economical) country, "european tiger" as european media called you for many years. Now, you getting to loose all of that.
Euro currency > Lisbon treaty > Higher and higher taxes = masses of people entirely dependent on social welfare.
God bless you!... and me. I think I have to look for another country to settle again. Is there still any normal country in the this crazy, socialistic world? :mad:
PS. Sorry for my english, I'm not native speaker.

horse7 · 12-01-2011 11:08pm

as i understand it usc is not levied on the state pension.however my brother has been working with the dept of p and t ,now called eircom for 35 years and as such is not entitled to the state pension,but to the eircom pension.is he liable to pay usc on his sole eircom pension.

Ogham · 12-01-2011 11:15pm

horse7 - yes the uSc will be payable. Eircom will probably deduct it.
Some figures on USC levels Here.

PS - why would he not get state pension too ?- he must have paid plenty of PRSI over the years - he should get both

Kristopherus · 12-01-2011 11:26pm

Ogham wrote: »

horse7 - yes the uSc will be payable. Eircom will probably deduct it.
Some figures on USC levels Here.

PS - why would he not get state pension too ?- he must have paid plenty of PRSI over the years - he should get both

+1 He should qualify for Contributory OAP when he reaches 65 (or is it 66

) if he has 35 yrs service. The vast majority of P&T workers paid PRSI at the "A" rate.

kippy · 12-01-2011 11:26pm

WowieZowie wrote: »

I worked in Ireland for last 3 years. Hard, physical work for average 290e/week. I live in Dublin.
I escaped from Poland becouse mad taxation and very high, forced social security (which gives you back almost nothing), which makes work of most people non-profitable.
On my first payslip this year I've realized USC, checked what is that, and become realy sad, becouse I see now the same mistakes in Irish politics which I saw in Poland. Higher taxation = less money on market = less investments = less jobs = worse everywhere (maybe not in bank sector, which we pay down alltogether).
Conclusion: Many friends told me: "If you don't have 39 hours/week, as you suppose to have (contract), go to Social Welfare, they will refund you something." I was says "No! I'm not in Ireland to ask social welfare for anything but to take proper money for proper work". Now... it has no point anymore. Irish government start to steal my money like polish one. New taxes, mad prices for petrol (when I came here was 1euro/liter...), less jobs.
Wake up Irish people! You had great, free (political and economical) country, "european tiger" as european media called you for many years. Now, you getting to loose all of that.
Euro currency > Lisbon treaty > Higher and higher taxes = masses of people entirely dependent on social welfare.
God bless you!... and me. I think I have to look for another country to settle again. Is there still any normal country in the this crazy, socialistic world? :mad:
PS. Sorry for my english, I'm not native speaker.

Fair enough lad, but that "Tiger" was based on ridiculously cheap money, spent via a housing bubble in what has turned out to be a completely unsustainable manner.
While I dont agree with what is happening at the minute (personally my income has taken a massive hit due to this USC and indeed the changes in tax relief on pension contributions, the third and most serious so far hit in three consecutive Januarys, with at least 3 more to go), I do see why changes have to happen - again not agreeing with things as they are, but things have to change.
We all realise what less net pay to the worker means, its not a good knock on effect but if we as a country managed our affairs only SLIGHTLY better, we may not have ended in this position.

Just on topic again, I wasnt messing when I said my take home has gone down significently mainly, I must say due to the pensions changes.
I am down roughly 240 a month net, wife is similiar. Messy. Yeah it could be worse but that is a massive change to income levels with 2 more at least to come.

horse7 · 13-01-2011 8:28pm

Ogham wrote: »

horse7 - yes the uSc will be payable. Eircom will probably deduct it.
Some figures on USC levels Here.

PS - why would he not get state pension too ?- he must have paid plenty of PRSI over the years - he should get both

he is not entitled to state pension,the prsi is class d.(which is civil service prsi). and the company is a private company.

Kristopherus · 13-01-2011 8:37pm

In that case, then, he will pay usc on his Eircom pension. As will everyone who is on an occcupational pension. Except those on very small occo pensions.Seems crazy to me that someone on €12000 occu pension must pay usc and the contributory pensioner on €12248 pays zilch.

horse7 · 13-01-2011 8:39pm

Kristopherus wrote: »

+1 He should qualify for Contributory OAP when he reaches 65 (or is it 66) if he has 35 yrs service. The vast majority of P&T workers paid PRSI at the "A" rate.

not correct,the vast p and t paid class d. unestablished staff paid class a,but to become established had to change to class d. so he is working in a private firm,and paying a civil service stamp. he has no entitlement to a state pension.,and his sole pension will have usc tax on it.also there is a threshold of 18000euros before tax is applied on a pension,but this usc will apply on the brothers pension after 4000euros.

irishpancake · 17-01-2011 6:01pm

horse7 wrote: »

not correct,the vast p and t paid class d. unestablished staff paid class a,but to become established had to change to class d. so he is working in a private firm,and paying a civil service stamp. he has no entitlement to a state pension.,and his sole pension will have usc tax on it.also there is a threshold of 18000euros before tax is applied on a pension,but this usc will apply on the brothers pension after 4000euros.

Agree here with horse.

Also ex-P&T myself, 39 yrs service, retired early due to ill-health, no entitlement to State Pension due to PRSI contributions being at Class D.

I am now paying the USC on a small Occupational Pension, even though I qualified for the MC due to my medical condition, and was exempt from Income and Health levies previously.

As the people on State Benefits and Pensions are not affected by this currently, the outcry has been muted, to say the least.

Only a relatively small cohort of voters have been affected this year, but this may change in the coming years, and those currently unaffected should be aware that this charge is coming down the line.

There is a Facebook Campaign on this:

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Reinstate-Medical-Card-Exemptions/150871834960139

bcmf · 26-01-2011 10:17am

In the deal done with Labour/FG to get the Finance Bill through has medical card holders become exempt from paying USC?

Ogham · 26-01-2011 10:37am

bcmf wrote: »

In the deal done with Labour/FG to get the Finance Bill through has medical card holders become exempt from paying USC?

The changes are not to make them exempt - just to cap it at 4% instead of 7%.
They will be voting on it today

See http://www.moneyguideireland.com/lower-rate-of-usc-for-medical-card-holders.html

Cyril Squirrel · 01-02-2011 9:20pm

When does this capped rate come into effect?

pigeonbutler · 01-02-2011 11:27pm

Cyril Squirrel wrote: »

When does this capped rate come into effect?

From reading the bill the capped rate is in effect for the full year. Therefore it should kick in immediately (or as soon as systems can be updated).

In addition, you are entitled to a refund of any excess 7% deductions that may have been suffered. I'm not sure yet if that will be done by way of an immediate refund in the next payment (assuming you suffer tax at source) or will need to be reclaimed from Revenue after the end of the year.

668Janet · 02-02-2011 4:40pm

Hi,
Can anyone tell me when the new max 4% USC for medical Card holders should kick in? I tend to have to chase my payroll section as they know very little about it all and don’t try to learn any!! If I don’t push they won’t change. paid the income and health levies till last year until I researched it myself and realised I should have been on A2 instead of A1!! Don’t want another week to go by paying more USC than absolutely needed!!
Cheers

Sephiroth_dude · 06-02-2011 2:57pm

Is the usc replacing prsi too?

Kotek Besar · 06-02-2011 3:00pm

Sephiroth_dude wrote: »

Is the usc replacing prsi too?

No. PAYE and PRSI are still deducted separately.

Sephiroth_dude · 06-02-2011 3:09pm

Kotek Besar wrote: »

No. PAYE and PRSI are still deducted separately.

Oh I though the USC was replacing everything.

Kotek Besar · 06-02-2011 3:15pm

Sephiroth_dude wrote: »

Oh I though the USC was replacing everything.

I think a few people thought that, you're not alone.

Gael23 · 06-02-2011 4:53pm

Sephiroth_dude wrote: »

Is the usc replacing prsi too?

The usc replaces the income levy and the Health portion of PRSI

EggsAckley · 08-02-2011 1:33pm

Does anyone know if the change regarding Medical Card holders will apply in the same manner as the Income Levy? i.e. if you held a medical card for any time in the year (even just one day) you were exempt from the Income Levy

pigeonbutler · 08-02-2011 8:05pm

@668Janet - Finance Act is now signed by President. So the cap applies for the full year, i.e. immediately.

@EggsAckley - The Act is silent on that but the wording of medical card cap is very similar to old provisions in Income Levy section so if that was the interpretation previously it is likely to be the same for the USC.

EggsAckley · 08-02-2011 9:20pm

pigeonbutler wrote: »

@668Janet - Finance Act is now signed by President. So the cap applies for the full year, i.e. immediately.

@EggsAckley - The Act is silent on that but the wording of medical card cap is very similar to old provisions in Income Levy section so if that was the interpretation previously it is likely to be the same for the USC.

Revenue have updated the faq and this is the case

HarvestAnne · 15-02-2011 12:51pm

Since the publication of the Finance Act, medical card holders will not have to pay the higher rate fo 7% for USC. They will be capped at 4%.
Employers have been asked by Revenue to refund any overpayment made since January to these employees so they should get a refund if they have paid 7% USC on their pay in January.

Cookie_Monster · 15-02-2011 2:19pm

So why do medical card holder get both the benefit of the card and the reduced rate of payment, that's not really fair is it?

Kotek Besar · 15-02-2011 2:21pm

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

So why do medical card holder get both the benefit of the card and the reduced rate of payment, that's not really fair is it?

Because they're poor. That's why they have the Medical Card in the first place.

HarvestAnne · 15-02-2011 10:45pm

I understand your frustration but to be honest, this group of people have been really hard hit with the USC. PReviously they were exempt from the Health Levy (although some of them didn't know that and their employers deducted it from them anyway!) and Income Levy. Now they have to pay an additional 4% of their pay in USC.
I suppose it's up to all of us to ensure that we're utilising all the tax credits and breaks that are available to us!

Max Power1 · 22-02-2011 11:14am

Kotek Besar wrote: »

Because they're poor. That's why they have the Medical Card in the first place.

more likely just scroungers tbh.

I would be heavily in favour of abolishing the medical card.

HarvestAnne · 22-02-2011 11:27am

Max Power 1 - that may be your opinion - until you get some illness like diabetes when you have to go and buy all the medication, equipment and syringes yourself! You might change your mind then!

Max Power1 · 22-02-2011 1:55pm

HarvestAnne wrote: »

Max Power 1 - that may be your opinion - until you get some illness like diabetes when you have to go and buy all the medication, equipment and syringes yourself! You might change your mind then!

My asthma meds cost me upwards of €100-120.

I am not earning the "average industrial wage" but quite a bit under it, yet because I work (and pay taxes to fund these scroungers), I am not qualified for a medical card.

Kotek Besar · 22-02-2011 2:12pm

Max Power1 wrote: »

My asthma meds cost me upwards of €100-120.

I am not earning the "average industrial wage" but quite a bit under it, yet because I work (and pay taxes to fund these scroungers), I am not qualified for a medical card.

Oi. Watch your mouth.

I'm not a scrounger. I work full time, in the same job for 5 years. I pay taxes. Between my wife and I our taxes have risen by ~ €200 a month as a result of Budget 2011. Our incomings are less due to a reduction in in Child Benefit.

We have a Medical Card because the law says we're entitled to one. Without it, my family would suffer worse financially than we already are, due to the mess this country's in.

So this image you seem to have of all those who have Medical Cards to be jobless leaches who are on the dole for fun and bleed the country dry any way they can is downright insulting. Grow up would you.

susie05 · 22-02-2011 4:34pm

So max power..My Husband works 40+ hours a week on **** money to try & keep a roof over our heads.. & i stay at home to look after 2 kids...One of whom is on meds & we Have a Medical card & without it we wouldnt be able to pay to get her meds or See gp otherwise,SO am i a scrounger??
Talk about Being Narrow minded.

Max Power1 · 22-02-2011 6:10pm

susie05 wrote: »

So max power..My Husband works 40+ hours a week on **** money to try & keep a roof over our heads.. & i stay at home to look after 2 kids...One of whom is on meds & we Have a Medical card & without it we wouldnt be able to pay to get her meds or See gp otherwise,SO am i a scrounger??
Talk about Being Narrow minded.

Should have thought of that before having kids. Why dont you work? Why are my taxes (and those of other hardworking people) funding your sitting around all day?

Max Power1 · 22-02-2011 6:20pm

Kotek Besar wrote: »

Oi. Watch your mouth.

I'm not a scrounger. I work full time, in the same job for 5 years. I pay taxes. Between my wife and I our taxes have risen by ~ €200 a month as a result of Budget 2011. Our incomings are less due to a reduction in in Child Benefit.

We have a Medical Card because the law says we're entitled to one. Without it, my family would suffer worse financially than we already are, due to the mess this country's in.

So this image you seem to have of all those who have Medical Cards to be jobless leaches who are on the dole for fun and bleed the country dry any way they can is downright insulting. Grow up would you.

Watch your mouth and grow up :rolleyes:

Just because something is permitted by law doesnt make it correct.

djginger · 23-02-2011 4:04pm

does anyone know if part of the thinking behind the USC is to bulk up the VHI reserves to make it a viable insurance entity before it is fully privatised

irishpancake · 15-03-2011 2:21pm

Max Power1 wrote: »

My asthma meds cost me upwards of €100-120.

I am not earning the "average industrial wage" but quite a bit under it, yet because I work (and pay taxes to fund these scroungers), I am not qualified for a medical card.

Hi Max.....

How do you know you are not qualified?

Is it possible that you actually applied to become one of these scroungers yourself, hence your knowledge regarding your eligibility?

BTW, I think most reasonable people here would support your qualification, and would be quite happy to see their Taxes used in such a fashion, if you are indeed earning less than the AIW, and your meds do cost €100-€120p/mth.

This is an intolerable financial burden on someone in your position.

HarvestAnne:

Max Power 1 - that may be your opinion - until you get some illness like diabetes when you have to go and buy all the medication, equipment and syringes yourself! You might change your mind then!

No point in giving misleading information here either.

Diabetics are entitled to a Long Term Illness Card, which covers all drugs and medical devices related to the disease, including syringes, etc.

The problem here is hat the list of illnesses which qualify for the LTI is quite restricted, and does not include Asthma, for example.

Geuze · 12-04-2011 4:59pm

djginger wrote: »

does anyone know if part of the thinking behind the USC is to bulk up the VHI reserves to make it a viable insurance entity before it is fully privatised

No, the USC is nothing directly to do with the VHI.

Geuze · 12-04-2011 5:01pm

Kotek Besar wrote: »

Because they're poor. That's why they have the Medical Card in the first place.

Note that plenty of people have 100,000+ on deposit, and incomes of 1000 per week and have medical cards.

They are not poor, but they do have medical cards.

kgallake · 13-04-2011 10:02am

Hi all to be blunt the USC is another way to increase the amount of stealth tax they take from me in a nut shell I paid 348 in deductions per month now I pay 410 euro per month in deductions an increase of 62 euro per month in the levys and taxes I have to pay to which i have now less money to spend in any retail outlet either for food /fuel or anything that keep the country moving the old/new goverment is taxing the workers to pay huge pay bill for the civil service and to pay back the Eu on all the loans and bailouts we now have.

The ecomony in failing because we have less working and more now on the dole and we have less to spend which lowers the revenue income for the goverment who have huge bills to pay as have all who have a mortage to pay or keep a roof over their head or try to pay, plus keep their job and have taken a wage cut of 20 to 25 percent to keep their jobs and now have the USC plus the increase in the cost of living.

I hope I have a job this time next year/month who knows as we have seen a huge down turn in work in the last two months where will it all end ?

whippet · 13-04-2011 11:43am

Max Power1 wrote: »

Should have thought of that before having kids. Why dont you work? Why are my taxes (and those of other hardworking people) funding your sitting around all day?

I just noticed this statement here ..... are you serious or is this tongue in cheek?

a mother of two sitting around all day? you obviously have either no direct experience of childcare or have a totally blinkered view.

If only people who could comfortably afford to have children did, the country would be in a bigger mess in a few years .... there would be nobody around to work, to pay the taxes for your generation's pensions, public services etc ....

Also, with the cost of full time childcare, circa €800-1000 per child, a second parent working full time would have to earn much more than min wage, to be able to justify not being a full time stay at home parent.

I am a parent with one child, paying €1k per month childcare, before taxes I have to earn about €1500 per month to pay for this, as well as all the other expenses that go with being a parent.

Children are not a financial exercise, families and children were around long before economics and budgets .... to make a comment like you just made is outlandish

Essexboy · 13-04-2011 3:20pm

irishpancake wrote: »

Hi Max.....

How do you know you are not qualified?

Is it possible that you actually applied to become one of these scroungers yourself, hence your knowledge regarding your eligibility?

BTW, I think most reasonable people here would support your qualification, and would be quite happy to see their Taxes used in such a fashion, if you are indeed earning less than the AIW, and your meds do cost €100-€120p/mth.

This is an intolerable financial burden on someone in your position.

HarvestAnne:

No point in giving misleading information here either.

Diabetics are entitled to a Long Term Illness Card, which covers all drugs and medical devices related to the disease, including syringes, etc.

The problem here is hat the list of illnesses which qualify for the LTI is quite restricted, and does not include Asthma, for example.

The problem here is hat the list of illnesses which qualify for the LTI is quite restricted, and does not include Asthma, for example.

or Cancer.

Red Silurian · 12-07-2011 9:04pm

I make between €100 and €150/week as a part-time barman and I've so far this year paid almost €70 in this USC! Thats half a weeks wages almost! Meanwhile I tried to get a loan for a car recently and the bank wouldn't give me one, yet my contribution (not single-handedly, obviously) is bailing them out of hot water! B******t!!!

Solair · 12-07-2011 9:06pm

Can everyone please start referring to the USC by pronouncing the letters. It sounds something along the lines of "You Suck"

cherryghost · 12-07-2011 9:31pm

I lose between 30/40 a week on the USC. Working extra hours now does literally fcuk all to my end of week wages.

lmimmfn · 12-07-2011 11:01pm

cherryghost wrote: »

I lose between 30/40 a week on the USC. Working extra hours now does literally fcuk all to my end of week wages.

amen to that, i avoid extra work at all costs( unfortunately not always possible ), why should i work harder to give the government more money for banks than i get from the deal and its me who is working?

UNIVERSAL SOCIAL CHARGE (USC)

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