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M28 - Cork to Ringaskiddy [advance works pending; 2024 start]

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    #842
    Ludo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,015 ✭✭✭Ludo


    As I just posted in the Cork City forum thread about CSC when this was brought up also...no one cares enough about this issue for it to factor into their decision as to who to vote for to any large degree except for a small few heavily invested people.
    This is a settled issue as far as polotocians are concerned now and is in the hands of the courts. Buttimer getting elected or not will not make the slightest differece to the road getting built.


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    #843
    cjpm
    Registered Users Posts: 1,437 ✭✭✭cjpm


    AugustusMinimus wrote: »
    Buttimer polling 6%. Justice.

    Latest is 4.6%

    Delighted!!

    He was a strong backer of the steering group. The people that use the current N28 didn’t forget it!


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    #844
    Cork Trucker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,553 ✭✭✭Cork Trucker


    AugustusMinimus wrote: »
    Buttimer polling 6%. Justice.

    As I said to Ludo on the other thread, these “10,000” people didn’t materialise. It’s not a political issue, just a handful of so and so’s in the steering group


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    #845
    Ludo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,015 ✭✭✭Ludo


    Cork Trucker wrote: »
    As I said to Ludo on the other thread, these “10,000” people didn’t materialise. It’s not a political issue, just a handful of so and so’s in the steering group

    Did anyone ever believe that number?


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    #846
    Cork Trucker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,553 ✭✭✭Cork Trucker


    Ludo wrote: »
    Did anyone ever believe that number?

    Only if they were smoking the funny stuff


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    #847
    AugustusMinimus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,546 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    Ludo wrote: »
    Did anyone ever believe that number?

    It was widely reported by the press. Traffic is a huge issue for those living in Carrigaline. I doubt it would have helped Buttimer if people knew how much of a snake he’s been on the issue.


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    #848
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,351 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Jerry Buttimer got 2828 first preference votes.

    The irony.


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    #849
    cjpm
    Registered Users Posts: 1,437 ✭✭✭cjpm


    marno21 wrote: »
    Jerry Buttimer got 2828 first preference votes.

    The irony.

    I would have thought that the 10,000 people that the steering group represented would have voted for Jerry???


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    #850
    kub
    Registered Users Posts: 6,528 ✭✭✭kub


    cjpm wrote: »
    I would have thought that the 10,000 people that the steering group represented would have voted for Jerry???


    They did, just reality stuck its oar in and well that was that and puff the mystical 10,000 just were never in existence.


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    #851
    Jim Gazebo
    Registered Users Posts: 2,355 ✭✭✭Jim Gazebo


    kub wrote: »
    They did, just reality stuck its oar in and well that was that and puff the mystical 10,000 just were never in existence.

    It was like the 10000 decided to travel down there this morning 😭 the traffic 😣


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    #852
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,717 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    cjpm wrote: »
    I would have thought that the 10,000 people that the steering group represented would have voted for Jerry???

    I've never understood how this bunch have gotten away with calling themselves a "steering group" (and recognised as such in the media). They're a small group of residents on Facebook who never represented the majority in the area.


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    #853
    Cork Trucker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,553 ✭✭✭Cork Trucker


    _Kaiser_ wrote: »
    I've never understood how this bunch have gotten away with calling themselves a "steering group" (and recognised as such in the media). They're a small group of residents on Facebook who never represented the majority in the area.

    only self interest


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    #854
    Hibernicis
    Registered Users Posts: 1,440 ✭✭✭Hibernicis


    The written judgement of Mr. Justice MacGrath who conducted the Judicial Review is available on the High Court website. It runs to 58 pages. From reading the document it's easily seen why the case was protracted and had to be adjourned on a number of occasions.

    The proceedings relate primarily to Rafeen quarry and some other technical EIS matters. The appellants set out the issues in a waffle-odious style typical of Collins/Harrington. The respondents are a bit more suscinct:
    • i. Whether the quarry should have been part of the road project;
    • ii. The assertion that the Board did not carry out a cumulative EIA of the road and the quarry;
    • iii. The alleged lack of AA in respect of the quarry works;
    • iv. Ecological complaints about a failure to assess the quarry; and
    • v. Which iteration of the Directive should have been applied to the project?

    As expected there is absolutely no mention of traffic volumes, impact on residents, junction capacity, exploding trucks, alternative routes, ruination of life as the residents of Maryborough Hill know it or any of the other sensationalist scaremongering that characterised the campaign. In essence the issue of the quarry, which THE 10,000 never knew existed let alone cared two whits about, has been very cleverly hijacked.

    Having read the judgment twice, it strikes me that there are a number of grey areas, and while McGrath J. sets out his decision clearly, there may well be enough grey to require that an appeal be allowed. Whether such an appeal would succeed or not is another matter entirely.

    The next date listed for the case remains 12/03/2020 per the High Court Search

    To obtain a copy of the judgement go to https://beta.courts.ie/judgments then enter M28 in the "Search Term" box and click on the search icon. You may need to refresh the last page a couple of times before the judgement appears. Alternatively this direct link may or may not work for you.


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    #855
    danny004
    Registered Users Posts: 267 ✭✭danny004


    Great summary of the judgement.
    does anyone know how long before the judge will rule on application to the supreme court ,is it likely to be this thursday or will this ruling drag on for months.


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    #856
    Cork Trucker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,553 ✭✭✭Cork Trucker


    danny004 wrote: »
    Great summary of the judgement.
    does anyone know how long before the judge will rule on application to the supreme court ,is it likely to be this thursday or will this ruling drag on for months.

    Personally I have no knowledge of waiting times etc, but if it took as long as it did in the high court would the Supreme Court not be longer again?


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    #857
    mydiscworld
    Registered Users Posts: 789 ✭✭✭mydiscworld


    Cork Trucker wrote: »
    Personally I have no knowledge of waiting times etc, but if it took as long as it did in the high court would the Supreme Court not be longer again?

    Tomorrow will be a submission to seek an appeal to Supreme Court. Burden on objectors to prove enough to merit allowing an appeal.

    Judge will likely need a few weeks to make decision based on what they hear tomorrow.


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    #858
    Hibernicis
    Registered Users Posts: 1,440 ✭✭✭Hibernicis


    mydiscworld wrote: »
    Tomorrow will be a submission to seek an appeal to Supreme Court. Burden on objectors to prove enough to merit allowing an appeal.

    Judge will likely need a few weeks to make decision based on what they hear tomorrow.

    Looks like this is going to run and run.

    According to the high courts website yesterday’s session was adjourned and the case is listed for hearing (2 days) before Mr. Justice McGrath on 28th April.


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    #859
    SeanW
    Registered Users Posts: 8,775 ✭✭✭SeanW


    I wonder if the strategy is not to cause an endless cycle of reviews and new studies/documents:

    1) Studies and other preparatory documents are completed, valid for X number of years.
    2) Frivolous lawsuits hold up project for X+1/2 number of years.
    3) New studies and other preparatory documents are required and prepared. Valid for X years.
    4) New frivolous lawsuits hold up project for X+1 years ...

    and so on. Either way, it's time to get serious in dealing with these frivolous objectors. At this point I'd consider it warranted to award costs against the "Steering Group" and tell them "no appeals of any kind until all of the State's costs have been paid. Every single cent."


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    #860
    mydiscworld
    Registered Users Posts: 789 ✭✭✭mydiscworld


    The Courts appear to be staying open so do we expect this to go ahead on April 28th?


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    #861
    Hibernicis
    Registered Users Posts: 1,440 ✭✭✭Hibernicis


    mydiscworld wrote: »
    The Courts appear to be staying open so do we expect this to go ahead on April 28th?

    Hearing for 2 days on 28th April still listed on highcourtsearch.courts.ie so no change thus far


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    #862
    Aontachtoir
    Registered Users Posts: 574 ✭✭✭Aontachtoir


    mydiscworld wrote: »
    The Courts appear to be staying open so do we expect this to go ahead on April 28th?

    As far as I can tell, courts.ie says that all judicial reviews are adjourned, so presumably not. Although this could change closer to the time.

    https://beta.courts.ie/content/covid-19-statements-president-each-jurisdiction-updated-monday-16th-march-630pm


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    #863
    mydiscworld
    Registered Users Posts: 789 ✭✭✭mydiscworld


    Did the hearing take place April 28th?


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    #864
    Hibernicis
    Registered Users Posts: 1,440 ✭✭✭Hibernicis


    mydiscworld wrote: »
    Did the hearing take place April 28th?

    No. The status of the case on highcourtsearch.courts.ie changed last week to “Adjourned Generally” so no hearing and no revised date at this time.


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    #865
    Aontachtoir
    Registered Users Posts: 574 ✭✭✭Aontachtoir


    We have now passed three years since an application for planning permission was submitted for this road. No end is in sight.


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    #866
    Cork Trucker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,553 ✭✭✭Cork Trucker


    The system needs overhauling to prevent NIMBY’s holding up vital projects like this, not just for roads, but housing and other commercial developments.


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    #867
    cantalach
    Registered Users Posts: 1,925 ✭✭✭cantalach


    And it’s not just the NIMBYs. In the case of the ill-fated Apple data centre in Co. Galway, the objector was a dude who wanted to build a data centre somewhere in the east of the country. When the Port of Cork first sought PP for the new container port in Ringaskiddy, the Port of Waterford lodged an objection. Ludicrous! The whole idea of 3rd party objections needs to be reconsidered.


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    #868
    Aontachtoir
    Registered Users Posts: 574 ✭✭✭Aontachtoir


    cantalach wrote: »
    And it’s not just the NIMBYs. In the case of the ill-fated Apple data centre in Co. Galway, the objector was a dude who wanted to build a data centre somewhere in the east of the country.

    Didn't he own land that had originally been considered for a data centre, or something like that?


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    #869
    Cork Trucker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,553 ✭✭✭Cork Trucker


    https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Port-of-Cork-announce-operation-date-for-new-entrances-at-R613-and-N28-junction-in-Ringaskiddy-6bd0ce0f-32ea-4eaa-8517-279bc37228b7-ds

    The Port of Cork has this afternoon announced that the new entrance to Ringaskiddy Deep Water Berth and temporary entrance to Cork Container Terminal will come into operation this Friday.

    The new entrance is located at the junction of the R613 and N28 in Ringaskiddy.


    https://twitter.com/PortofCork/status/1265293281656819713?s=20


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    #870
    Baldilocks
    Registered Users Posts: 112 ✭✭Baldilocks


    I was in Ringaskiddy last weekend (it's within the 5km) and I saw that the 2 large container cranes look complete. Work is proceeding at pace on the load/unloading area.
    My understanding of the planning permission for the port is that it cannot open for container traffic until such time as the M28 is ready. Can anyone confirm if my understanding is correct?
    If so, does that mean that the Port of Cork are proceeding 'at risk' with the capital investment?
    Or is there some class of a bodge that will be implemented?
    The N28 is not ready for another few thousand journeys/day


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    #871
    hans aus dtschl
    Registered Users Posts: 3,072 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    Baldilocks wrote: »
    I was in Ringaskiddy last weekend (it's within the 5km) and I saw that the 2 large container cranes look complete. Work is proceeding at pace on the load/unloading area.
    My understanding of the planning permission for the port is that it cannot open for container traffic until such time as the M28 is ready. Can anyone confirm if my understanding is correct?
    If so, does that mean that the Port of Cork are proceeding 'at risk' with the capital investment?
    Or is there some class of a bodge that will be implemented?
    The N28 is not ready for another few thousand journeys/day

    I'd heard it was a bodge.
    That they're going to be allowed to open.
    My original understanding was the same as yours, that it can't open until the M28 is ready, but my source said otherwise just a few months ago.


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