M28 - Cork to Ringaskiddy [advance works ongoing; 2025 start; 2028 completion]

_Kaiser_ · 16-02-2020 2:55pm

cjpm wrote: »

I would have thought that the 10,000 people that the steering group represented would have voted for Jerry???

I've never understood how this bunch have gotten away with calling themselves a "steering group" (and recognised as such in the media). They're a small group of residents on Facebook who never represented the majority in the area.

Cork Trucker · 16-02-2020 3:17pm

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I've never understood how this bunch have gotten away with calling themselves a "steering group" (and recognised as such in the media). They're a small group of residents on Facebook who never represented the majority in the area.

only self interest

Hibernicis · 24-02-2020 3:07pm

The written judgement of Mr. Justice MacGrath who conducted the Judicial Review is available on the High Court website. It runs to 58 pages. From reading the document it's easily seen why the case was protracted and had to be adjourned on a number of occasions.

The proceedings relate primarily to Rafeen quarry and some other technical EIS matters. The appellants set out the issues in a waffle-odious style typical of Collins/Harrington. The respondents are a bit more suscinct:

i. Whether the quarry should have been part of the road project;

ii. The assertion that the Board did not carry out a cumulative EIA of the road and the quarry;

iii. The alleged lack of AA in respect of the quarry works;

iv. Ecological complaints about a failure to assess the quarry; and

v. Which iteration of the Directive should have been applied to the project?

As expected there is absolutely no mention of traffic volumes, impact on residents, junction capacity, exploding trucks, alternative routes, ruination of life as the residents of Maryborough Hill know it or any of the other sensationalist scaremongering that characterised the campaign. In essence the issue of the quarry, which THE 10,000 never knew existed let alone cared two whits about, has been very cleverly hijacked.

Having read the judgment twice, it strikes me that there are a number of grey areas, and while McGrath J. sets out his decision clearly, there may well be enough grey to require that an appeal be allowed. Whether such an appeal would succeed or not is another matter entirely.

The next date listed for the case remains 12/03/2020 per the High Court Search

To obtain a copy of the judgement go to https://beta.courts.ie/judgments then enter M28 in the "Search Term" box and click on the search icon. You may need to refresh the last page a couple of times before the judgement appears. Alternatively this direct link may or may not work for you.

danny004 · 10-03-2020 12:27am

Great summary of the judgement.
does anyone know how long before the judge will rule on application to the supreme court ,is it likely to be this thursday or will this ruling drag on for months.

Cork Trucker · 10-03-2020 8:13am

danny004 wrote: »

Great summary of the judgement.
does anyone know how long before the judge will rule on application to the supreme court ,is it likely to be this thursday or will this ruling drag on for months.

Personally I have no knowledge of waiting times etc, but if it took as long as it did in the high court would the Supreme Court not be longer again?

mydiscworld · 11-03-2020 12:21pm

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Personally I have no knowledge of waiting times etc, but if it took as long as it did in the high court would the Supreme Court not be longer again?

Tomorrow will be a submission to seek an appeal to Supreme Court. Burden on objectors to prove enough to merit allowing an appeal.

Judge will likely need a few weeks to make decision based on what they hear tomorrow.

Hibernicis · 13-03-2020 1:08am

mydiscworld wrote: »

Tomorrow will be a submission to seek an appeal to Supreme Court. Burden on objectors to prove enough to merit allowing an appeal.

Judge will likely need a few weeks to make decision based on what they hear tomorrow.

Looks like this is going to run and run.

According to the high courts website yesterday’s session was adjourned and the case is listed for hearing (2 days) before Mr. Justice McGrath on 28th April.

SeanW · 13-03-2020 1:55am

I wonder if the strategy is not to cause an endless cycle of reviews and new studies/documents:

1) Studies and other preparatory documents are completed, valid for X number of years.
2) Frivolous lawsuits hold up project for X+1/2 number of years.
3) New studies and other preparatory documents are required and prepared. Valid for X years.
4) New frivolous lawsuits hold up project for X+1 years ...

and so on. Either way, it's time to get serious in dealing with these frivolous objectors. At this point I'd consider it warranted to award costs against the "Steering Group" and tell them "no appeals of any kind until all of the State's costs have been paid. Every single cent."

mydiscworld · 03-04-2020 12:37pm

The Courts appear to be staying open so do we expect this to go ahead on April 28th?

Hibernicis · 03-04-2020 2:55pm

mydiscworld wrote: »

The Courts appear to be staying open so do we expect this to go ahead on April 28th?

Hearing for 2 days on 28th April still listed on highcourtsearch.courts.ie so no change thus far

Aontachtoir · 03-04-2020 9:00pm

mydiscworld wrote: »

The Courts appear to be staying open so do we expect this to go ahead on April 28th?

As far as I can tell, courts.ie says that all judicial reviews are adjourned, so presumably not. Although this could change closer to the time.

https://beta.courts.ie/content/covid-19-statements-president-each-jurisdiction-updated-monday-16th-march-630pm

mydiscworld · 05-05-2020 11:48am

Did the hearing take place April 28th?

Hibernicis · 05-05-2020 8:24pm

mydiscworld wrote: »

Did the hearing take place April 28th?

No. The status of the case on highcourtsearch.courts.ie changed last week to “Adjourned Generally” so no hearing and no revised date at this time.

Aontachtoir · 17-05-2020 10:25pm

We have now passed three years since an application for planning permission was submitted for this road. No end is in sight.

Cork Trucker · 17-05-2020 10:41pm

The system needs overhauling to prevent NIMBY’s holding up vital projects like this, not just for roads, but housing and other commercial developments.

cantalach · 17-05-2020 11:44pm

And it’s not just the NIMBYs. In the case of the ill-fated Apple data centre in Co. Galway, the objector was a dude who wanted to build a data centre somewhere in the east of the country. When the Port of Cork first sought PP for the new container port in Ringaskiddy, the Port of Waterford lodged an objection. Ludicrous! The whole idea of 3rd party objections needs to be reconsidered.

Aontachtoir · 18-05-2020 2:18am

cantalach wrote: »

And it’s not just the NIMBYs. In the case of the ill-fated Apple data centre in Co. Galway, the objector was a dude who wanted to build a data centre somewhere in the east of the country.

Didn't he own land that had originally been considered for a data centre, or something like that?

Cork Trucker · 26-05-2020 9:30pm

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Port-of-Cork-announce-operation-date-for-new-entrances-at-R613-and-N28-junction-in-Ringaskiddy-6bd0ce0f-32ea-4eaa-8517-279bc37228b7-ds

The Port of Cork has this afternoon announced that the new entrance to Ringaskiddy Deep Water Berth and temporary entrance to Cork Container Terminal will come into operation this Friday.

The new entrance is located at the junction of the R613 and N28 in Ringaskiddy.

https://twitter.com/PortofCork/status/1265293281656819713?s=20

Baldilocks · 27-05-2020 9:33pm

I was in Ringaskiddy last weekend (it's within the 5km) and I saw that the 2 large container cranes look complete. Work is proceeding at pace on the load/unloading area.
My understanding of the planning permission for the port is that it cannot open for container traffic until such time as the M28 is ready. Can anyone confirm if my understanding is correct?
If so, does that mean that the Port of Cork are proceeding 'at risk' with the capital investment?
Or is there some class of a bodge that will be implemented?
The N28 is not ready for another few thousand journeys/day

hans aus dtschl · 28-05-2020 10:27am

Baldilocks wrote: »

I was in Ringaskiddy last weekend (it's within the 5km) and I saw that the 2 large container cranes look complete. Work is proceeding at pace on the load/unloading area.
My understanding of the planning permission for the port is that it cannot open for container traffic until such time as the M28 is ready. Can anyone confirm if my understanding is correct?
If so, does that mean that the Port of Cork are proceeding 'at risk' with the capital investment?
Or is there some class of a bodge that will be implemented?
The N28 is not ready for another few thousand journeys/day

I'd heard it was a bodge.
That they're going to be allowed to open.
My original understanding was the same as yours, that it can't open until the M28 is ready, but my source said otherwise just a few months ago.

Cork Trucker · 28-05-2020 11:14am

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

I'd heard it was a bodge.
That they're going to be allowed to open.
My original understanding was the same as yours, that it can't open until the M28 is ready, but my source said otherwise just a few months ago.

This will just increase the pressure to get the M28 done faster. The erm........... “objectors” will have a canary at the thought of all those beautiful trucks going up and down the N28

hans aus dtschl · 28-05-2020 11:24am

Cork Trucker wrote: »

This will just increase the pressure to get the M28 done faster. The erm........... “objectors” will have a canary at the thought of all those beautiful trucks going up and down the N28

Yep. I was only told in passing so we'll see if they're correct.

Cork Trucker · 28-05-2020 11:53am

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

Yep. I was only told in passing so we'll see if they're correct.

Fingers crossed for a positive outcome

danny004 · 28-05-2020 10:41pm

Cork Trucker wrote: »

This will just increase the pressure to get the M28 done faster. The erm........... “objectors” will have a canary at the thought of all those beautiful trucks going up and down the N28

It might force the Government to get it built faster dependent on finance availability from EU and priority post COVID19 but what it wont do as we have all seen is speed up or influence the judicial process.If there is leave to appeal you can probably write off 5-10 years
Also without the M28, residents in the Ringaskiddy area are battle hardened over the years to holding planning to account and Ive seen it there time and time again where pretty confident enterprises bigger than the ordinary man try to encroach beyond their planning stipulations only to be shot straight back.
The M28 steering group have nothing on them when they decide to get going ask indevar.

Aontachtoir · 28-05-2020 11:02pm

Cork Trucker wrote: »

This will just increase the pressure to get the M28 done faster. The erm........... “objectors” will have a canary at the thought of all those beautiful trucks going up and down the N28

Or it could allow them to say that the N28 can handle the trucks as it is and that there is therefore no need for the M28...

Any update on the next court date?

kub · 29-05-2020 12:31pm

Meanwhile a new container service from Ringaskiddy to the US is starting up:

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Port-of-Cork-announces-new-container-service-direct-to-US--e9ef057f-6e01-4ba2-8e6a-ca7db9ad3a98-ds

And today the new port entrance at Ringaskiddy is opening:

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Port-of-Cork-announce-operation-date-for-new-entrances-at-R613-and-N28-junction-in-Ringaskiddy-6bd0ce0f-32ea-4eaa-8517-279bc37228b7-ds

So the usual dragging of feet is going on in the courts and the objectors dream, but business has to carry on.

Jim Gazebo · 30-05-2020 11:39pm

Good to hear new entrance is opening. The old entrance was very dangerous with the island outside it. Whenever a truck was turning in, car behind would move out to go around (impatience!) And almost hit the island they couldn't see

kub · 09-06-2020 12:03am

Am i correct in thinking that it is still EU money that is paying for the M28 Upgrade?

Therefore beyond the clutches of the objections of the Green Party ?

Leonard Hofstadter · 09-06-2020 1:12am

It has to be done under the TEN-T directive by 2030 doesn't it?

So whether it's EU money or not (and I thought it was, like the M21 to Adare), it should be fairly idiotic Green proof.

Mind you, they're so busy wrestling their consciences at the moment they might (hopefully) not get into power to ruin the livelihoods of the 2/3rds of people not living in the Pale.

danny004 · 22-06-2020 11:16pm

see below from steering group ,they aint planning on giving up the ghost anytime soon. 5 years before any ground is broken anywhere id say

Hi all,

Hope you are all keeping well during this difficult period. As you are aware following the High Court judgement of December 19th 2019 a decision was taken to appeal that judgement to the Court of Appeal/ Supreme Court the process of which requires in the first instance an application to Mr Justice MacGrath for him to issue the M28 Steering Group with a certificate which would allow us to proceed to the court of appeal.

Following our petition in late February and March of this year, Mr Justice MacGrath agreed to hear our case for certification and set aside 2 days to hear legal arguments. Unfortunately as the pandemic struck all matters relating to our case for certification were stalled.

There was an expectation that the application hearing would take place in late May or early June 2020 however we have now been informed that a new hearing date has been provisionally set for sometime in September 2020. No surprise that both the Board and CCC are objecting to our petition and submissions have been made in this regard however we have responded and look forward to the oral arguments at the high court next September.

As a reminder.... the process requires us in the first instance to ask the high court for permission/ certification to proceed to the court of appeal......

If the high court refuses certification we cannot go to the court of appeal and must proceed directly to the Supreme Court.

If the high court gives certification and we lose at the court of appeal we can also petition the Supreme court to hear our case.

Fyi, In 2019 Angela Kerins former CEO Rehab lost her case in the high court, she lost her case at the court of appeal and won her case at the Supreme court. In 2019 a family from Inchigeelagh took on An Bord Pleanala for judicial review, lost in the high court, lost in the court of appeal and won at the supreme court . ........unfortunately this is the system we must live with.

Keep well, stay safe and enjoy the summer. I will update you in September.

Kind regards

Gerard Harrington
Chairman M28 Steering group

Cork Trucker · 23-06-2020 7:57am

The legal bill is going to be huge. It’s going to the Supreme Court no matter what basically. I don’t see the relevance is the cases that lost in the lower courts but succeeded in the Supreme Court, even if the Supreme Court sides with the, eh, people, the European court is unlikely to go against something that will be bankrolled by the EU? Again Harrington is a bloody hypocrite.

Pete_Cavan · 23-06-2020 9:32am

Are enabling works, etc. allowed to proceed while the appeal is ongoing or is everything stalled until there is a full and final resolution?

SeanW · 23-06-2020 5:27pm

Are the State's costs likely to be awarded against the objectors? It seems like they're just taking the proverbial mickey at this point.

Cork Trucker · 23-06-2020 6:15pm

SeanW wrote: »

Are the State's costs likely to be awarded against the objectors? It seems like they're just taking the proverbial mickey at this point.

Even if they are what are the odds they’ll have the means to pay them

Reputable Rog · 23-06-2020 6:51pm

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Are enabling works, etc. allowed to proceed while the appeal is ongoing or is everything stalled until there is a full and final resolution?

No. There’s no point in enabling works without permission for the road.

cantalach · 23-06-2020 7:00pm

Cork Trucker wrote: »

It’s going to the Supreme Court no matter what basically.

Not necessarily. The Supreme Court can only hear an appeal on specific grounds, namely that the lower court judge erred in his interpretation of the law. So they don’t go through an entire rehearing of evidence, etc. It is legal argument only. And the case must be successfully made first that there is a case to be heard. It’s not by any means a certainty that it will go there.

marno21 · 03-07-2020 8:00pm

Tender has gone out for archaelogical consultancy services and a topographical survey of the route

https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicPurchase/169778/1/0

https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicPurchase/169654/1/0

Looks like CCC are not going hanging around any longer.

danny004 · 03-07-2020 10:18pm

marno21 wrote: »

Tender has gone out for archaelogical consultancy services and a topographical survey of the route

https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicPurchase/169778/1/0

https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicPurchase/169654/1/0

Looks like CCC are not going hanging around any longer.

Out of curiosity whats a typical size contract for these works ,thousands ,ten of thousands etc . Reason I ask is how much risk are they committing to by doing this before judiciary is finished.

Aontachtoir · 04-07-2020 1:01am

marno21 wrote: »

Tender has gone out for archaelogical consultancy services and a topographical survey of the route. Looks like CCC are not going hanging around any longer.

Good. Keep it moving.

Edit: Makeup of the Dáil aside, what scope is there for exempting the M28 from planning requirements under Irish law (eg an Act of the Oireachtas explicitly granting the M28 permission to go ahead)? Just curious.

Aontachtoir · 04-07-2020 8:47pm

Two years now since the M28 was granted planning permission. We still haven't even heard the initial findings of the judicial review, and the Steering Group are happily sharing their plans to appeal and appeal and appeal again if they lose in the High Court.

kub · 04-07-2020 10:15pm

Aontachtoir wrote: »

Two years now since the M28 was granted planning permission. We still haven't even heard the initial findings of the judicial review, and the Steering Group are happily sharing their plans to appeal and appeal and appeal again if they lose in the High Court.

Just a thought, are the Steering Group going to play the long game here?

We are now beyond halfway through 2020, am i correct in thinking that this road has to be finished by 2030 as per Ten T ?

If they can keep appealing and appealing this, judging at the pace that these matters move through legal circles, could this project be snookered yet time wise ?

AugustusMinimus · 05-07-2020 9:45am

Our planning system for projects of national and regional importance is broken. This is a bloody disgrace.

Cork Trucker · 20-07-2020 10:18pm

M28 in 2028, NRR in 2035

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Multi-billion-euro-Cork-transport-plan-25-Luas-stops-trams-every-5-minutes-eight-new-train-stations-1a8b9148-8f35-40f0-aac1-3ef151e72976-ds

Cork Trucker · 04-08-2020 8:34pm

I’m only waiting for the steering group to comment

https://twitter.com/corkcoco/status/1290672268067180545?s=21

Golfer50 · 04-08-2020 8:42pm

What do you think they might say?

cantalach · 04-08-2020 8:45pm

Golfer50 wrote: »

What do you think they might say?

That they have had a think about it and realised that if an emergency such as this were to occur on the existing N28, much of which is very narrow and without hard shoulders, it would take much longer for emergency vehicles to gain access and the consequences could be much more serious

Markcheese · 05-08-2020 8:15pm

Ah , but if they get their way won't all the traffic be over in balinhasig driving round in ever increasing circles ...

Cork Trucker · 05-08-2020 8:37pm

Markcheese wrote: »

Ah , but if they get their way won't all the traffic be over in balinhasig driving round in ever increasing circles ...

Yeah, higher costs, higher emissions etc. A great bunch of lads

kub · 06-08-2020 12:05pm

Markcheese wrote: »

Ah , but if they get their way won't all the traffic be over in balinhasig driving round in ever increasing circles ...

Ah that old nugget, a beautiful new motorway heading into the West, to go North and link up with an already at limit M40.

I know that if I was driving up from Ringaskiddy or Carrigaline and heading to the Tunnel etc, that I would just stay on the existing road because it is a much shorter journey.
Has this thought occured to these people at all?
I mean has it been mentioned anywhere,that the existing road between Bloomfield and Carrigaline, is going to be closed down if these nice people have their wish?

Cork Trucker · 06-08-2020 12:16pm

kub wrote: »

Ah that old nugget, a beautiful new motorway heading into the West, to go North and link up with an already at limit M40.

I know that if I was driving up from Ringaskiddy or Carrigaline and heading to the Tunnel etc, that I would just stay on the existing road because it is a much shorter journey.
Has this thought occured to these people at all?
I mean has it been mentioned anywhere,that the existing road between Bloomfield and Carrigaline, is going to be closed down if these nice people have their wish?

You can be sure if in their imaginary world that their proposal came to fruition 99% of truckers and traffic in general will go the old way. What’s more sobering is this will take another 8 years.

Who in their deluded mind if coming from the tunnel to go to Ringaskiddy would pass on Bloomfield, head along the N40, up the N27 Airport Road, back down the R613 through Ballygarvan and over the Shannonpark Roundabout by means of a flyover is actually going to do that and the reverse journey when the shorter N28 is there.

M28 - Cork to Ringaskiddy [advance works ongoing; 2025 start; 2028 completion]

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