Incident at Roscommon hotel (asylum seekers)

tretorn · 13-02-2019 3:43pm

I really really hope we dont see an upsurge in asylum seekers once Britain leaves the UK.

I get no sense that our Government is preparing for this happening but I strongly suspect we are going to see an explosion.

We have nurses already saying they cant cope with the public hospital system, we simply dont have capacity for hundreds, maybe thousands of North Africans.

Galwayguy35 · 13-02-2019 3:43pm

I thought it was Syrians we were supposed to be taking in but according to the news yesterday most of the ones that were going to Roscommon were from North Africa.

Would be interesting to know how many of them are young men as well, I'd suggest quite a few if they are African.

As for that crustie they interviewed, she hadn't a clue what she was trying to say rambling on about DP but had now solution herself.

You know it's bad when Keelan Shanley, someone who wouldn't be someone who could be ever accused of leaning to the right cuts her off.

Of course the scruffy crustie would never admit that the reason most of them are in DP for so long is they launch appeal after appeal at taxpayers expense and this can go on for years on end.

Grayson · 13-02-2019 3:46pm

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I thought it was Syrians we were supposed to be taking in but according to the news yesterday most of the ones that were going to Roscommon were from North Africa.

Would be interesting to know how many of them are young men as well, I'd suggest quite a few if they are African.

As for that crustie they interviewed, she hadn't a clue what she was trying to say rambling on about DP but had now solution herself.

You know it's bad when Keelan Shanley, someone who wouldn't be someone who could be ever accused of leaning to the right cuts her off.

Of course the scruffy crustie would never admit that the reason most of them are in DP for so long is they launch appeal after appeal at taxpayers expense and this can go on for years on end.

Because most africans are young men? That sentence doesn't make any sense. And is it bad that they are men (If they are. I assume at least some are)?

tretorn · 13-02-2019 3:47pm

Odhinn wrote: »

You seem to be mistaking your non-systematic anecdotal observations with researched fact

https://www.demographic-research.org...6/45/36-45.pdf

https://www.ppic.org/content/pubs/rb/RB_402LHRB.pdf

I dont believe any of that research, its mostly done by liberals NGOs feeding off the trough of public money being spent on asylum seekers.

Most countries have no idea of how many non nationals there are within their borders, why would those working under the radar answer census forms, why would men who have two or three wives admit this to authorities. Many of these non nationals have children with two or three different women, it all adds up and anyone in Dublin city centre regularly would know the estimates for the number of non nationals is grossly under estimated.

And . yes, it is bad if we are letting thousands and thousands of young men who have basically been living in jungles arrive here, what do you think will happen if hundreds of young unemployed men congregate in a small area, maybe take a trip to Muslim ghettoes in Brussels, you might learn something.

Church on Tuesday · 13-02-2019 3:47pm

Grayson wrote: »

Them and climate change. The syrian revolution was caused by many rural families moving to cities as a direct result of climate change.

And although you could argue that the USA and its allies have a greater moral obligation to help the syrian people, that doesn't mean we don't. For example if you see someone that's knocked down by a car you can't say that you have no moral obligation to help and we should not help because it's the obligation of the person in the car. The right thing to do is to help the person that's been knocked down.

You're wasting your time trying to argue with racists.

With these kinds of people, anyone who is in in the slightest way different is automatically deemed untrustworthy/dangerous. It reflects a certain kind of insecurity and I've seen this nonsense played out in real life a thousand times before in work and social situations and it never ending well for the instigators.

It's very insidious all the same though, of course it will be dressed up as having concern for what you may call "globalization" but at the end of the day it's anything but.

If we've got to the stage where we can't or won't offer asylum to people whose lives have been destroyed by conflict, kids a lot of them, then we may as well pack it in folks.

We also are doing a disservice to the memory to our own victims of plight in the Famine years, because believe me, the Americans and others were not happy to see us come over to start a new life or just to survive.

We were reviled. Remember that. And not all of us were saints either.

This thread has become an angry insular echo chamber at this stage.

Have at it for all I care really.

Odhinn · 13-02-2019 3:50pm

tretorn wrote: »

I dont believe any of that research, its mostly done by liberals NGOs feeding off the trough of public money being spent on asylum seekers.

Dear o dear.

tretorn wrote: »

Most countries have no idea of how many non nationals there are within their borders, why would those working under the radar answer census forms, why would men who have two or three wives admit this to authorities. Many of these non nationals have children with two or three different women, it all adds up and anyone in Dublin city centre regularly would know the estimates for the number of non nationals is grossly under estimated.

Only about 4% in total of muslims world wide engage in polygamy. Another fact you might want to label and dismiss. And again, you're mistaking your anecdotal nonsense for genuine researched facts.

OneEightSeven · 13-02-2019 3:51pm

Odhinn wrote: »

Second and third generation have families in similar size to local norms.

This comment ignores the fact that fresh waves of Muslim immigrants will still have higher brithrates than native English. All population projections show the Muslim population in the UK increasing, when we should be decreasing it because Muslims are invasive.

You may find this hard to believe, but a lot of those children are irish.

You may find this difficult to understand, but you are not automatically granted citizenship by being born here and most of those children are dual citizens. Unlike most Irish, they can have their citizenship revoked and some of them don't even identity as Irish.

I was on RTE News' Facebook page last year, when I saw banned Boards.ie user Seaneh lecturing an African girl living in Irish on her nationality. She said she doesn't feel Irish but he was telling her she is. He basically shoving Irishness down her throat being his usual condescending self too. The vast majority of Africans arrived here as bogus asylum seekers and stayed here because of weak immigration control. Their Irishness is very superficial.

It's disappointing to Europeans hand out nationality like a free newspaper. It's the reason why we have to install anti-terror barriers on Grafton Street, Heanty sterrt and the UK's airports are armed to the teeth.

Del.Monte · 13-02-2019 3:52pm

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

You're wasting your time trying to argue with racists.

With these kinds of people, anyone who is in in the slightest way different is automatically deemed untrustworthy/dangerous. It reflects a certain lack of insecurity and I've seen this nonsense played out in real life a thousand times before in work and social situations and it never ending well for the instigators.

It's very insidious all the same though, of course it will be dressed up as having concern for what you may call "globalization" but at the end of the day it's anything but.

If we've got to the stage where we can't or won't offer asylum to people whose lives have been destroyed by conflict, kids a lot of them, then we may as well pack it in folks.

We also are doing a disservice to the memory to our own victims of plight in the Famine years, because believe me, the Americans and others were not happy to see us come over to start a new life or just to survive.

We were reviled. Remember that. And not all of us were saints either.

This thread has become an angry insular echo chamber at this stage.

Have at it for all I care really.

The irony. :rolleyes:

Odhinn · 13-02-2019 3:54pm

OneEightSeven wrote: »

This comment ignores the fact that fresh waves of Muslim immigrants will still have higher brithrates than native English. All population projections show the Muslim population in the UK increasing, when we should be decreasing it because Muslims are invasive.

First generation yes, the next generations less, gradually matching the average for the country.

Speaking about muslims being "invasive" doesn't do you any favours.

tretorn · 13-02-2019 3:55pm

4% of the huge number of Muslims in a colossal number.

Again I dont believe any of your statistics.

I see whats happening in our country with my own eyes and its not good.

Officially 12 % of the country is now non national but yet 33% of the numbers on the public housing lists are non nationals. This is before Brexit actually happens and now Italy has joined the Eastern European countries in saying NO to asylum seekers. Spain will be next and Germany has already taken its fair share. Are we to be the dumping ground now that other stronger countries are closing their doors.

tretorn · 13-02-2019 3:57pm

OneEightSeven wrote: »

This comment ignores the fact that fresh waves of Muslim immigrants will still have higher brithrates than native English. All population projections show the Muslim population in the UK increasing, when we should be decreasing it because Muslims are invasive.

You may find this difficult to understand, but you are not automatically granted citizenship by being born here and most of those children are dual citizens. Unlike most Irish, they can have their citizenship revoked and some of them don't even identity as Irish.

I was on RTE News' Facebook page last year, when I saw banned Boards.ie user Seaneh lecturing an African girl living in Irish on her nationality. She said she doesn't feel Irish but he was telling her she is. He basically shoving Irishness down her throat being his usual condescending self too. The vast majority of Africans arrived here as bogus asylum seekers and stayed here because of weak immigration control. Their Irishness is very superficial.

It's disappointing to Europeans hand out nationality like a free newspaper. It's the reason why we have to install anti-terror barriers on Grafton Street, Heanty sterrt and the UK's airports are armed to the teeth.

It was also the reason the Phoenix Park was put into lockdown against vehicles for the Papal Visit. No buses or cars were allowed anywhere near the park in case some crazed lunatic would hire a coach and drive in into families with young children.

Odhinn · 13-02-2019 3:58pm

tretorn wrote: »

4% of the huge number of Muslims in a colossal number.

Again I dont believe any of your statistics..

Convenient. They aren't "my " statistics by the way. You're the one making things up as you go along.

tretorn wrote: »

I see whats happening in our country with my own eyes and its not good..

Given the goggles you're wearing thats not suprising.

tretorn wrote: »

Officially 12 % of the country is now non national but yet 33% of the numbers on the public housing lists are non nationals. This is before Brexit actually happens and now Italy has joined the Eastern European countries in saying NO to asylum seekers. Spain will be next and Germany has already taken its fair share. Are we to be the dumping ground now that other stronger countries are closing their doors.

You don't really get statistics and the like, do you?

Galwayguy35 · 13-02-2019 3:58pm

Grayson wrote: »

Because most africans are young men? That sentence doesn't make any sense. And is it bad that they are men (If they are. I assume at least some are)?

Well the Government told us were were taking families from Syria yet yesterday it was said they are coming from North Africa and most of the young men from that area are economic migrants.

tretorn · 13-02-2019 4:06pm

We are going to get the asylum seekers the other countries dont want.

Merkel took the best of what was available, or so she thought but then native Germans were attacked by immigrants.
You may be sure that we are going to get male unemployable North Africans. If you see the people jumping on the dinghies they are all young males. They could afford to pay for flights but they dont because they think they can force their way into countries that dont want them more successfully by arriving on boats.

The best decision ever was Italy refusing to allow them to land and the NGOS being told to go back to their 9 to 5 jobs. If they are towed to Libya after having their details and their fingerprints taken hopefully they wont go sailing in dinghys again.

tretorn · 13-02-2019 4:11pm

Odhinn wrote: »

Convenient. They aren't "my " statistics by the way. You're the one making things up as you go along.

Given the goggles you're wearing thats not suprising.

You don't really get statistics and the like, do you?

No , I dont have much time for statistics.

If the numbers on the public housing list are over 30% then I suspect the numbers of non nationals here is way in excess of the official figures of 12 %.

I doubt if anyone in officialdom actually knows. it certainly took them long enough to deal with the bogus marriages, we were being taken for fools by these charlatans.

Grayson · 13-02-2019 4:15pm

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Well the Government told us were were taking families from Syria yet yesterday it was said they are coming from North Africa and most of the young men from that area are economic migrants.

few things.

A couple of pages back people were saying we had no obligation to take any refugees. Now the tone of the thread seems to have shifted to no africans.

Second I replied to your post that said most africans are young men.

Would be interesting to know how many of them are young men as well, I'd suggest quite a few if they are African.

And now it's switched to most young men from there are economic migrants. That doesn't establish that most africans are young men.

13-02-2019 4:15pm

There is a bit of naivety thinking anyone here illegally is going to fill in the census form.

Any foreigners Iv shared houses with here couldn't be bothered and they were european. :pac:

Grayson · 13-02-2019 4:16pm

tretorn wrote: »

No , I dont have much time for statistics.

If the numbers on the public housing list are over 30% then I suspect the numbers of non nationals here is way in excess of the official figures of 12 %.

I doubt if anyone in officialdom actually knows. it certainly took them long enough to deal with the bogus marriages, we were being taken for fools by these charlatans.

Richard Hillman · 13-02-2019 4:17pm

OneEightSeven wrote: »

This comment ignores the fact that fresh waves of Muslim immigrants will still have higher brithrates than native English. All population projections show the Muslim population in the UK increasing, when we should be decreasing it because Muslims are invasive.

You may find this difficult to understand, but you are not automatically granted citizenship by being born here and most of those children are dual citizens. Unlike most Irish, they can have their citizenship revoked and some of them don't even identity as Irish.

I was on RTE News' Facebook page last year, when I saw banned Boards.ie user Seaneh lecturing an African girl living in Irish on her nationality. She said she doesn't feel Irish but he was telling her she is. He basically shoving Irishness down her throat being his usual condescending self too. The vast majority of Africans arrived here as bogus asylum seekers and stayed here because of weak immigration control. Their Irishness is very superficial.

It's disappointing to Europeans hand out nationality like a free newspaper. It's the reason why we have to install anti-terror barriers on Grafton Street, Heanty sterrt and the UK's airports are armed to the teeth.

Haven't been in Dublin city centre since just before Xmas but one thing I did notice was Diversity Barrier's on Henry Street. They were very large cube plant pots that would need a truck to drive through them. They were shaped in a chicane, so you can still drive through them but you can't just turn off the street and plow through. It was quite well done and didn't look like Barrier's, but it would have been tough going for any of our diverse friends.

13-02-2019 4:21pm

http://www.ipo.gov.ie/en/ipo/pages/statistics

IPO monthly statistics for asylum seems to give out the absolute bare minimum of detail.

Top 5 countries + overall total. No male female split etc.

Applications jumped 25% from 2017 to 2018 so thats why they need all these extra places.

Mokuba · 13-02-2019 4:41pm

Aside from all the other reasons -

We can't house the people we already have in the country.

The gates should be shut until we figure that problem out.

Zorya · 13-02-2019 4:43pm

Well, anyone who disagrees with open borders for economic migrants has been openly called a racist on this thread, good going. How does one continue with such a disgraceful epithet hanging over one's head....

Nonetheless..

Angela Nagle wrote an interesting piece a few months ago called The Left Case against Open Borders.

One stat stuck with me, although I agree with the thrust of her argument overall, which is based on brain drain, undermining of sovreignty and the fact that the rich elitists benefit by far the most from population migrations, and the working class and struggling middle very much do not. Open Borders used to be a right wing desire, after all, cheap labour etc.

The stat is that ''According to Foreign Policy magazine, “There are more Ethiopian physicians practising in Chicago today than in all of Ethiopia, a country of 80 million.”

Shocking.

https://americanaffairsjournal.org/2...-open-borders/

HiGlo · 13-02-2019 4:51pm

Robert Wolfe wrote: »

Being an asylum seeker does not automatically make you a good person.

And being Syrian/an asylum seeker doesn't automatically make you a criminal....

WinnyThePoo · 13-02-2019 4:51pm

Who is for free borders?
A few immigrant families into the country does not equal free borders.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 13-02-2019 4:51pm

Zorya wrote: »

Well, anyone who disagrees with open borders for economic migrants has been openly called a racist on this thread, good going. How does one continue with such a disgraceful epithet hanging over one's head....

Nonetheless..

Angela Nagle wrote an interesting piece a few months ago called The Left Case against Open Borders.

One stat stuck with me, although I agree with the thrust of her argument overall, which is based on brain drain, undermining of sovreignty and the fact that the rich elitists benefit by far the most from population migrations, and the working class and struggling middle very much do not. Open Borders used to be a right wing desire, after all, cheap labour etc.

The stat is that ''According to Foreign Policy magazine, “There are more Ethiopian physicians practising in Chicago today than in all of Ethiopia, a country of 80 million.”

Shocking.

https://americanaffairsjournal.org/2...-open-borders/

It still is to an extent. Regressive Leftists are useful idiots to the '1%' (a bunch of Right Wing Capitalists).

13-02-2019 4:57pm

Prejudice and bigotry never really changes - no matter who it is directed against It is a bit ironic, though, that some people in the name of "Ireland" or the "Irish" are simply rehashing the prejudice that Irish emigrants experienced in the past. Look at anti-Irish, anti Catholic bigotry in the 19th Century US, eg,

"According to “Conspiracy Theories in American History: An Encyclopedia,” some Protestants feared the pope and his army would land in the United States, overthrow the government and establish a new Vatican in Cincinnati. They believed the Irish would impose the Catholic canon as the law of the land."

"Anti-Catholic, anti-Irish mobs in Philadelphia destroyed houses and torched churches in the deadly Bible Riots of 1844".
"in newspaper classified advertisements that blared “No Irish Need Apply.” The image of the simian Irishman, imported from Victorian England, was given new life by the pens of illustrators such as Thomas Nast that dripped with prejudice as they sketched Celtic ape-men with sloping foreheads and monstrous appearances."
"That same year (1854), the Know-Nothings in Bath, Maine, smashed the pews of a church recently purchased by Irish Catholics before hoisting an American flag from the belfry and setting the building ablaze."

Grayson · 13-02-2019 5:01pm

Mokuba wrote: »

Aside from all the other reasons -

We can't house the people we already have in the country.

The gates should be shut until we figure that problem out.

I agree, kinda.

Housing people in dublin and some other major urban centres is a problem. However there is space in other large towns. the simple fact that these centres are in Roscommon and Donegal shows that to an extent.

Even then there's only a finite amount of space available. And we should be looking at the available space and making calculations.

However most of the arguments in this are that refugees are simply bad. The argument isn't about how we should handle the situation it's simply saying no full stop.

Grayson · 13-02-2019 5:02pm

1641 wrote: »

Prejudice and bigotry never really changes - no matter who it is directed against It is a bit ironic, though, that some people in the name of "Ireland" or the "Irish" are simply rehashing the prejudice that Irish emigrants experienced in the past. Look at anti-Irish, anti Catholic bigotry in the 19th Century US, eg,

"According to “Conspiracy Theories in American History: An Encyclopedia,” some Protestants feared the pope and his army would land in the United States, overthrow the government and establish a new Vatican in Cincinnati. They believed the Irish would impose the Catholic canon as the law of the land."

"Anti-Catholic, anti-Irish mobs in Philadelphia destroyed houses and torched churches in the deadly Bible Riots of 1844".
"in newspaper classified advertisements that blared “No Irish Need Apply.” The image of the simian Irishman, imported from Victorian England, was given new life by the pens of illustrators such as Thomas Nast that dripped with prejudice as they sketched Celtic ape-men with sloping foreheads and monstrous appearances."
"That same year (1854), the Know-Nothings in Bath, Maine, smashed the pews of a church recently purchased by Irish Catholics before hoisting an American flag from the belfry and setting the building ablaze."

And the whole outbreeding, like the irish were animals, was used back then as well.
To be fair it's been used against every minority. The irish, jews, black people etc...

Grayson · 13-02-2019 5:04pm

Zorya wrote: »

Well, anyone who disagrees with open borders for economic migrants has been openly called a racist on this thread, good going. How does one continue with such a disgraceful epithet hanging over one's head....

How does one continue with a discussion when people like you are making sh1t up.

Church on Tuesday · 13-02-2019 5:13pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

The irony. :rolleyes:

:rolleyes:

Billy86 · 13-02-2019 5:13pm

tretorn wrote: »

I would much prefer to live under the priest fearing society of old than live under a Muslim cleric.

Or King Joffrey. Jesus can you imagine having to live under king Joffrey? It would be a f*cking nightmare.

Thankfully though, most of us live in the real world and not a fantasy land where the fundamentalists among the Muslims control Europe, just as the fundamentalist Jews did not control Europe a century ago.

Zorya · 13-02-2019 5:13pm

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

You're wasting your time trying to argue with racists.

With these kinds of people, anyone who is in in the slightest way different is automatically deemed untrustworthy/dangerous.

This thread has become an angry insular echo chamber at this stage.

Have at it for all I care really.

*Insert me noting people who disagreed have been called racists on the thread*

Grayson wrote: »

How does one continue with a discussion when people like you are making sh1t up.

Making sh1t up = telling the truth. Ah well. :rolleyes:

tretorn · 13-02-2019 5:29pm

Grayson wrote: »

I agree, kinda.

Housing people in dublin and some other major urban centres is a problem. However there is space in other large towns. the simple fact that these centres are in Roscommon and Donegal shows that to an extent.

Even then there's only a finite amount of space available. And we should be looking at the available space and making calculations.

However most of the arguments in this are that refugees are simply bad. The argument isn't about how we should handle the situation it's simply saying no full stop.

The reason there is space in these rural towns is because young people have left because there is no prospects of making a living in these places.

The asylum seekers wont stay a wet week there either, they will get themselves to Dublin and arrive at Wood Quay and say they are homeless. How do you force them back to a one horse rural town when there is nothing there for them. The liberals wont have it, they will stand in front of buses and trains etc to prevent "deportation" of asylum seekers to Connacht.

Its all madness and Leo needs to sit down with his pals in Europe and explain about our housing and health care crisis and our total inability to even build a childrens hospital without spending billions.

Billy86 · 13-02-2019 5:30pm

Kivaro wrote: »

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

OK, so no one said what you said though did they? No one said anything like that at all.

Lads and lassies, my advice is to ignore the posters who are obviously trying to deflect.
Anytime new facts come out e.g. the recent news about the drastic increase of sexual assault and rapes by asylum seekers in Finland, they will do anything to mask the incidents by deflection and lies.

So on the subject of deflection, third time of asking now: can you please tell me which open borders posters you referring to when you said "I see we have the usual pro-open-borders supporters on here..."

tretorn · 13-02-2019 5:34pm

Billy86 wrote: »

Or King Joffrey. Jesus can you imagine having to live under king Joffrey? It would be a f*cking nightmare.

Thankfully though, most of us live in the real world and not a fantasy land where the fundamentalists among the Muslims control Europe, just as the fundamentalist Jews did not control Europe a century ago.

Ask the French what its like to live in Paris, Marseilles and Nice now.

Have you been to Germany recently,the airports are policed by armed personnel too.

Have you been to Cologne where a thousand women were molested by feral gangs of North Africans.

Ask the locals in Clontarf who were terrorised by gangs of black teens arriving on the Dart from Balbriggan.

Hmmm, yes, there is a lot of controlling going on.

weldoninhio · 13-02-2019 5:35pm

Odhinn wrote: »

Dear o dear.

Only about 4% in total of muslims world wide engage in polygamy. Another fact you might want to label and dismiss. And again, you're mistaking your anecdotal nonsense for genuine researched facts.

So over 60m of them??

Grayson · 13-02-2019 5:58pm

Zorya wrote: »

*Insert me noting people who disagreed have been called racists on the thread*

Making sh1t up = telling the truth. Ah well. :rolleyes:

You said that anyone here who's against open borders for economic migrants is called a racist in this thread.

is there anyone here who's actually for open borders? is there anyone here who's said that we should have no checks for anyone at all? Is there anyone who's said that we need some kind of control and has been called a racist?

Everyone here believes in some controls. No-one here believes in having an open border. What people are arguing about is whether or not we should be accepting refugees and how many we should accept.

Literally no-one has said that open borders are bad and has been called a racist for it.

Billy86 · 13-02-2019 6:13pm

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Haven't been in Dublin city centre since just before Xmas but one thing I did notice was Diversity Barrier's on Henry Street. They were very large cube plant pots that would need a truck to drive through them. They were shaped in a chicane, so you can still drive through them but you can't just turn off the street and plow through. It was quite well done and didn't look like Barrier's, but it would have been tough going for any of our diverse friends.

Richard, can I ask what you response would be if Ireland were to take in Jewish asylum seekers, only for Irish Muslims to burning down hotels in a terrorist-like attempt to intimidate government policy, and those running said hotel supporting it?

Would you be talking about pot plants on the road in Dublin instead?

Zorya · 13-02-2019 6:22pm

Grayson wrote: »

You said that anyone here who's against open borders for economic migrants is called a racist in this thread.

is there anyone here who's actually for open borders? is there anyone here who's said that we should have no checks for anyone at all? Is there anyone who's said that we need some kind of control and has been called a racist?

Everyone here believes in some controls. No-one here believes in having an open border. What people are arguing about is whether or not we should be accepting refugees and how many we should accept.

Literally no-one has said that open borders are bad and has been called a racist for it.

As you well know there are plenty people here arguing the case of a sane immigration policy, which I would think personally only covers genuine refugees - as they used to be defined, ie people literally fleeing war and persecution.
You and others on here know very well that this is not the case for the absolute vast majority of migrants now. You know it. We cannot take in any numbers of people from failed states like Pakistan, which can spend billions on nuclear arms but not its people, or Afghanistan which has been ruined between Russia and America for decades.
Even the agreement signed in Morocco sought to do away with the demarcation between different kinds of migrants. So people are confusing what refugee means, and this is public policy.

We are not capable of taking in economic migrants, full stop - we are not dealing with our own troubles, we cannot offer welfare and housing to economic migrants in any numbers at all. Why should we anyway?

Church on Tuesday clearly said there is no point discussing with racists. I am presuming they meant anyone who disagrees with them, and since most in your camp seem to feel we should take in some, few, many, who knows, economic migrants, that is ergo an open border policy by its very nature. Maybe not wide open, one-world, kumbaya-style love-in open borders, but accepting any numbers of economic migrants who aresimply looking to move to a new gaff just because its a nicer economy is open borders to some degree.

It's not racist to object to this kind of migration policy and the erosion of national sovereignty.

Billy86 · 13-02-2019 6:29pm

tretorn wrote: »

Ask the French what its like to live in Paris, Marseilles and Nice now.

I literally share a desk with a woman from Marseilles - she likes it a lot there, but wanted to travel a bit being in her 20s and says the far right stuff over there can be pretty unbearable at times.

Have you been to Germany recently,the airports are policed by armed personnel too.

As they have been for decades. I have been there a bunch of times, its a pretty great country.

Have you been to Cologne where a thousand women were molested by feral gangs of North Africans.

I have not been to Cologne, can you tell me how you got on on your most recent visit?

Ask the locals in Clontarf who were terrorised by gangs of black teens arriving on the Dart from Balbriggan.

Along with the people who have been getting terrorised by white gangs in Ireland for decades. But your posting history shows a distinct lack of interest in any of that stuff unless the offender happens to be black, Muslim, etc.

I will ask you the same question I asked Richard... if these were Jewish asylum seekers, and Irelands Muslim population decided to burn hotels to the ground to try and cause intimidation... how much differently would your reaction be?

Kivaro · 13-02-2019 6:31pm

Grayson wrote: »

You said that anyone here who's against open borders for economic migrants is called a racist in this thread.

is there anyone here who's actually for open borders? is there anyone here who's said that we should have no checks for anyone at all? Is there anyone who's said that we need some kind of control and has been called a racist?

Everyone here believes in some controls. No-one here believes in having an open border. What people are arguing about is whether or not we should be accepting refugees and how many we should accept.

Yes Grayson, there are. You can find them on boards by searching.
Some will be extremely liberal, while others will be Sinn Fein supporters due to their representatives constantly advocating for an open door policy.

During Sinn Fein's ard fheis in 1998, motions were passed supporting open borders for all migrants, including economic migrants.
Article 26:
Sinn Fein will work for the achievement of the optimal position of no restriction on immigration to Ireland.

Article 27:
Sinn Fein deplores all attempts to limit the numbers of political and economic refugees into the country.

Both of these motions were passed unanimously by Sinn Fein and their open-door-migration-for-all motions have never been reversed or superseded by Sinn Fein at subsequent ard fheis's.

The reality of the situation in Ireland is that we have de facto open borders due to the porous nature of our border controls, coupled with a horrendous asylum process where failed applicants will almost always win out if they continue with the multiple appeal process. There are many ways to gain illegal entry into the country e.g. sham marriages, sham English schools, other higher education scams, but most just arrive using illegal papers. Amnesty (leave to stay) will eventually be given to these people by the government, irrespective of the fact that our political leaders have no idea of the numbers involved. But it will be sizeable for a small country.

Billy86 · 13-02-2019 7:01pm

Kivaro wrote: »

Yes Grayson, there are. You can find them on boards by searching.

You said they are people posting in this thread, just go ahead and name the posters who have called for open borders that you were referring to please.

Boggles · 13-02-2019 7:09pm

Kivaro wrote: »

During Sinn Fein's ard fheis in 1998, motions were passed supporting open borders for all migrants, including economic migrants.

Jaysus.

Went back a bit there didn't you?

Racist scare mongering aside, don't the vast majority of people who settle here come from the EU?

Kivaro · 13-02-2019 7:26pm

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

You're wasting your time trying to argue with racists.
..........

Boggles wrote: »

Racist scare mongering aside, don't the vast majority of people who settle here come from the EU?

Ah Jaysus lads, it is a clear indication of losing an argument when you resort to that type of rubbish.

This use to happen in the boards-of-old when anyone who had to audacity to ask questions about non-EU migration into Ireland were immediately charged and convicted of being racist .... just for asking the question.

So let's go back again to what the Finnish President said about having a frank conversation about the topic:

It’s unbearable that some who have sought asylum from us, and even received an asylum, have brought evil to us and created insecurity.......

We need an open and factual discussion and decisions that are weighted thoroughly.

Unless, of course, the Finnish President is racist too.

Boggles · 13-02-2019 7:32pm

Kivaro wrote: »

Ah Jaysus lads, it is a clear indication of losing an argument when you resort to that type of rubbish.

Hang on, you point to a 21 year motion which echoes EU immigration policy.

You just don't like the bit that lets in Africans.

Have you the link to 1998 text?

Billy86 · 13-02-2019 7:36pm

Kivaro wrote: »

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

You're wasting your time trying to argue with racists.
..........

Boggles wrote: »

Racist scare mongering aside, don't the vast majority of people who settle here come from the EU?

Ah Jaysus lads, it is a clear indication of losing an argument when you resort to that type of rubbish.

So what you are saying is, these open borders posters in this thread, you just made them up out of thin air and were lying. That's typically quite a big sign in itself that you're losing an argument, and given that you are going to such lengths to not name them, it's becoming the only logical conclusion.

I'll ask you the same as the other two - were Ireland to accept Jewish asylum seekers, only for Irish Muslims to burn down hotels to try and intimidate (also known as terrorism) what would your reaction be?

Wibbs · 13-02-2019 7:54pm

Boggles wrote: »

Hang on, you point to a 21 year motion which echoes EU immigration policy.

Doesn't make either of them any less daft. The same EU policy has let over five million in since 09. Nearly 80% of whom were men of fighting age. The image of families fleeing war is a bogus one. They exist but the majority are economic migrants. Fine for Germany who has previous for importing large numbers of young people to shore up their industries in the face of an ageing population. QV the Turks. Didn't go too great for them.

Billy86 wrote: »

I'll ask you the same as the other two - were Ireland to accept Jewish asylum seekers, only for Irish Muslims to burn down hotels to try and intimidate (also known as terrorism) what would your reaction be?

Well you picked the old Jewish angle in your usual attempts to showboat and close down discussion(quelle surprise). Secondly you're labelling them asylum seekers, suggesting they're fleeing from tyranny, which is an increasingly bogus label. But, hey, I'll happily bite and you can swap out any two groups. If the government were to drop into a small rural Muslim town with few employment options or infrastructure a large number of predominantly young male Jews without any consultation or choice in the matter for the local population, yep I could well understand locals getting extremely pissed off and some taking it to extremes. Because I live in a place called the Real World™. And in said real world "multiculturalism" almost never works and has never worked, save for in what the modern world would consider hard core "right wing" cultures of the past. Oh and pointing to European colonies founded on and requiring off large scale immigration, IE colonisation, as examples doesn't work. It certainly didn't work for the original inhabitants.

Boggles · 13-02-2019 8:01pm

Wibbs wrote: »

Doesn't make either of them any less daft. The same EU policy has let over five million in since 09. Nearly 80% of whom were men of fighting age.

Have you a link to where you saw that stat please?

Wibbs · 13-02-2019 8:02pm

tretorn wrote: »

Again I dont believe any of your statistics.

A wise choice. In another thread on the matter the same Odhinn claimed that Arab nations were bringing in their fair share from their much closer neighbours, unlike his linkless claims, I was able to demonstrate using various local on the ground mainstream news sources that the majority were doing nothing of the sort, indeed some were forcibly expelling same, but that was ignored. Of course, it doesn't fit the Right On narrative. No doubt Turkey and Jordan will be mentioned and yes, in particular fair play to Jordon, but they're more like transit camps on the way to the promised land of the EU. The vast majority of middle eastern refugees have come through both those nations. Then they rock up in Greece and onwards to countries with better social welfare options. Claim asylum in the first country is the rule? Then how are they getting to a little island off the coast of Europe like Ireland, or the UK? Or making their way all the way to Sweden? Eh...

Grayson · 13-02-2019 8:02pm

Kivaro wrote: »

Yes Grayson, there are. You can find them on boards by searching.
Some will be extremely liberal, while others will be Sinn Fein supporters due to their representatives constantly advocating for an open door policy.

During Sinn Fein's ard fheis in 1998, motions were passed supporting open borders for all migrants, including economic migrants.
Article 26:
Sinn Fein will work for the achievement of the optimal position of no restriction on immigration to Ireland.

Article 27:
Sinn Fein deplores all attempts to limit the numbers of political and economic refugees into the country.

Both of these motions were passed unanimously by Sinn Fein and their open-door-migration-for-all motions have never been reversed or superseded by Sinn Fein at subsequent ard fheis's.

The reality of the situation in Ireland is that we have de facto open borders due to the porous nature of our border controls, coupled with a horrendous asylum process where failed applicants will almost always win out if they continue with the multiple appeal process. There are many ways to gain illegal entry into the country e.g. sham marriages, sham English schools, other higher education scams, but most just arrive using illegal papers. Amnesty (leave to stay) will eventually be given to these people by the government, irrespective of the fact that our political leaders have no idea of the numbers involved. But it will be sizeable for a small country.

They said people in this thread. And they said wanted open borders. And they said people who were against open borders were called racists. Once again, in this thread.

They're making sh1t up. That never happened.

You've moving the goal posts by saying that it's a "de facto" open borders. The fact is that no-one here has said they wanted open borders.

Incident at Roscommon hotel (asylum seekers)

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