EA Requesting an Inappropriate Level of Information

Reversal · 12-06-2021 9:55am #1

Does anyone else think an EA asking for the following level of financial information is in appropriate, to just secure a first viewing;

Should the development be of interest, we require you to submit your full proof of funds along with completing a short questionnaire (linked at end of email).

What are "Full Proof of Funds"?

This is proof that as a buyer, you have the financial means to purchase a property and we require proof of finance for the full purchase price. This could include:
Mortgage Approval in Principle (which is in date);

Evidence of Help to Buy Grant if applicable;

Evidence of all savings that will be used in the purchase;

Evidence of gifts from family members, if applicable;

If purchasing with cash, a bank statement or letter from your solicitor confirming funds are available.

It is unfortunately not adequate to state that you have the savings or will qualify for the Help to Buy grant, you need to provide evidence.

Please note that if submitting letters from your mortgage broker, the loan amount must be visible. We cannot accept a redacted Approval in Principle.

And best of all...

The deadline to complete the form and submit your proof of funds is Monday 14th June 2021 at 11:59pm.

Following this date, all qualified applicants will receive an email offering them the opportunity to book a private appointment at the launch.

:rolleyes:

I understand they can afford to treat people this way due to current demand, and I understand as a buyer you have little other choice these days. But handing over such a level of financial information to randomers in an EA office just seems so wrong.

12-06-2021 10:03am

What’s your issue with this? If you can’t show proof that you can buy the property, why would they accept your application?

10pennymixup · 12-06-2021 10:05am

It rules out time wasters and they'll blame the pandemic.

But I wonder do the REITS have to provide such info when they're buying out whole estates.:rolleyes:

James 007 · 12-06-2021 10:09am

10pennymixup wrote: »

It rules out time wasters and they'll blame the pandemic.

But I wonder do the REITS have to provide such info when they're buying out whole estates.

They do, my name is Mr. REITS, here is my bank statement showing €15000,000,000,403.82 in my account, any chance I can view this estate.:rolleyes:

FromADistance · 12-06-2021 10:11am

Whatever about AIP & evidence of the Help to Buy Grant (& in the case of cash buyers, evidence of funds); the rest is nonsence.... evidence of savings? A bank would not provide AIP generally if the borrower could not show sufficient savings.

We're talking about a first viewing, you haven't even decided if you want to purchase. I get that they want to remove tyre kickers from the process but it's excessive IMO.

12-06-2021 10:15am

Dav010 wrote: »

What’s your issue with this? If you can’t show proof that you can buy the property, why would they accept your application?

Evidence of savings? The approval amount? AIP is all that is needed and a statement from the bank about having the deposit.

That’s what I needed to get my offer accepted by the vendor. This is a first viewing.

Reversal · 12-06-2021 10:15am

Dav010 wrote: »

What’s your issue with this? If you can’t show proof that you can buy the property, why would they accept your application?

Specifically handing non redacted bank statements and loan offers to the receptionist in a EAs office with no idea how your financial information is being handled or stored.

No problem giving that information to solicitor or financial institution, but replying to an email to an EA with this just seems unnecessary and frankly inappropriate.

Just to clarify this is an 'application' to get a first viewing of the house, not like you're trying to go sale agreed!

And going sale agreed has only ever required proof of funds in as much of a letter from solicitor or with figures redacted.

12-06-2021 10:18am

The EA is probably setting itself up for a massive GDPR headache.

12-06-2021 10:18am

Reversal wrote: »

Specifically handing non redacted bank statements and loan offers to the receptionist in a EAs office with no idea how your financial information is being handled or stored.

No problem giving that information to solicitor or financial institution, but replying to an email to an EA with this just seems unnecessary and frankly inappropriate.

Just to clarify this is an 'application' to get a first viewing of the house, not like you're trying to go sale agreed!

And going sale agreed has only ever required proof of funds in as much of a letter from solicitor or with figures redacted.

Sellers, EAs, other bidders all want to avoid time wasters. If you don’t want to provide proof of funds, move on.

Your op says “development” and “launch”, should we take it this is not a one off house and applications will be on a first in the door basis and the house prices are set/no bidding?

FromADistance · 12-06-2021 10:31am

Reversal wrote: »

Specifically handing non redacted bank statements and loan offers to the receptionist in a EAs office with no idea how your financial information is being handled or stored.

No problem giving that information to solicitor or financial institution, but replying to an email to an EA with this just seems unnecessary and frankly inappropriate.

Just to clarify this is an 'application' to get a first viewing of the house, not like you're trying to go sale agreed!

And going sale agreed has only ever required proof of funds in as much of a letter from solicitor or with figures redacted.

After handing over all that information, you should ask the Estate Agent will they give you a mortgage at a better rate than the bank.....

niniboots · 12-06-2021 10:39am

I know the "development" in question, there are extensive wait lists and interest in it. The house prices increased by 20k to 40k depending on type from first phase. They had a number of people pull out on the first, as they were sale agreed on a property above their AIP.

I agree with you though, it's ridiculously excessive but this sadly is the current market. I do wonder if everyone will keep over extending, property new build specific is now reaching 420k + for 1127sq ft 3bed semi in Kildare, Meath and West Meath. We have been researching market since 2019 and some developments in third phase have increased by 80k.

The smaller 3bed in this development within Dublin is 395k, the extended kitchen is 425k. If its the same development of course but we got exact email details so I'm assuming it is.

12-06-2021 10:46am

Isn't this a way online scammers whittle out sensible people from potential victims. If you are willing to provide the most personal of information then you are a good candidate to be fleeced and worth investing time in.

SupaCat95 · 12-06-2021 12:50pm

Dav010 wrote: »

Sellers, EAs, other bidders all want to avoid time wasters. If you don’t want to provide proof of funds, move on.

Your op says “development” and “launch”, should we take it this is not a one off house and applications will be on a first in the door basis and the house prices are set/no bidding?

You are effectively disclosing your position. This is telling the EA your upper limits. Common sense would tell you, you never disclose you position until you actually bid. I took issue with one EA and reported them to the Data Protection Commissioner.

SupaCat95 · 12-06-2021 12:55pm

fvp4 wrote: »

The EA is probably setting itself up for a massive GDPR headache.

Who is to say they are not selling this information off. Someone in Gateway sold the customer client list to a large Irish bank when they went belly up. I am sure it happens the whole time data bases get sold.

SusanC10 · 12-06-2021 12:59pm

SupaCat95 wrote: »

You are effectively disclosing your position. This is telling the EA your upper limits. Common sense would tell you, you never disclose you position until you actually bid. I took issue with one EA and reported them to the Data Protection Commissioner.

In a new development aren't the prices fixed ? So, no bidding.

But, yes I totally agree with you in general. Never disclose your upper limits when bidding and personally would not be giving that level of personal info to an Estate Agent.

Reversal · 12-06-2021 1:15pm

SusanC10 wrote: »

In a new development aren't the prices fixed ? So, no bidding.

But, yes I totally agree with you in general. Never disclose your upper limits when bidding and personally would not be giving that level of personal info to an Estate Agent.

Prices are fixed for this phase for now. But if the EA and developer wanted to they could easily use the data collected this time to set the prices for the next release straight to the maximum possible.

Or you could even see this phase go POA once they see exactly how much money the "applicants" have to play with. I'm not particularly interested in this estate for other reasons, how many blocks of numbers have been sold off according to the PPR, but I just feel this is so wrong.

Nika Bolokov · 12-06-2021 1:15pm

I think this is caused by the dreamers who finally got a few grand savings together in lockdown and then started bidding wildly on properties subsequently pulling out as they didnt actually have the funds.

12-06-2021 1:21pm

SupaCat95 wrote: »

You are effectively disclosing your position. This is telling the EA your upper limits. Common sense would tell you, you never disclose you position until you actually bid. I took issue with one EA and reported them to the Data Protection Commissioner.

But in a housing development, prices are fixed/advertised at launch, the position you are disclosing is that you can afford that fixed price.

Reversal · 12-06-2021 1:23pm

Dav010 wrote: »

But in a housing development, prices are fixed/advertised at launch, the position you are disclosing is that you can afford that fixed price.

And now they have a data source of how much people actually have before they decide the prices of the next phase.

12-06-2021 1:24pm

Reversal wrote: »

Prices are fixed for this phase for noe. But if the EA and developer wanted to they could easily use the data collected this time to set the prices for the next release.

Hard to see how this info is useful for setting the price of next phase. Demand would be a better indicator than what you have mortgage approval for.

12-06-2021 1:26pm

Reversal wrote: »

And now they have a data source of how much people actually have before they decide the prices of the next phase.

I hate to break it to you Reversal, developers could care less what your approval amount is, honestly, they will not remember you when deciding how much to sell the next phase for. Demand and selling price for similar properties are better price indicators than your mortgage approval.

If you don’t want to show proof that you can afford the property, move on, the demand is probably there fir others to buy.

If you bid on a house and the price goes up and up, how would you feel if you ended up bidding against someone who hasn’t the funds to buy the house, and you’ve ended up paying thousands more because they kept bidding? This is why sellers, and EAs quite rightly want proof of funds before bids are considered. In a developememt launch where there is no bidding and fixed prices, proof of funds should be a basic requirement, I can’t see your issue here.

Reversal · 12-06-2021 1:29pm

Dav010 wrote: »

Hard to see how this info is useful for setting the price of next phase. Demand would be a better indicator than what you have mortgage approval for.

So you sell 40 houses now at 425k, there is more demand than supply. So you can increase prices on the next 40houses in the new phase, by 10k, maybe 15k?

Oh wait you have the absolute maximum budget of of everyone on your waiting list. You see there's 40 people who have a budget if 450 or higher. Bingo.

Reversal · 12-06-2021 1:31pm

Dav010 wrote: »

I hate to break it to you Reversal, developers could care less what your approval amount is, honestly, they will not remember you when deciding how much to sell the next phase for. Demand and selling price for similar properties are better price indicators than your mortgage approval.

If you don’t want to show proof that you can afford the property, move on, the demand is probably there fir others to buy.

Not remember me obviously :roll:, but they've built a data base of 100s of interested parties. Honestly you are being totally naive or just dismissive just for the sake of it.

12-06-2021 1:33pm

Reversal wrote: »

Not remember me obviously :roll:, but they've built a data base of 100s of interested parties. Honestly you are being totally naive or just dismissive just for the sake of it.

Yes, I am dismissive of your suggestion that your mortgage approval forms part of consideration on next phase prices.

Do you think any seller considers mortgage approval levels when selling their house? Or do they consider what similar properties sell for and demand?

12-06-2021 1:33pm

Hard to see a problem with this tbh, but if you're very uncomfortable with it you could always go with another EA selling other properties somewhere else

Reversal · 12-06-2021 1:37pm

Dav010 wrote: »

Yes, I am dismissive of your suggestion that your mortgage approval forms part of consideration on next phase prices.

Do you think any seller considers mortgage approval levels when selling their house? Or do they consider what similar properties sell for and demand?

Maybe not before, but now they have the dataset their at the fingertips telling them exactly how much their prospective buyers can afford. Incredibly naive to think it wont form part of that decision.

If people are happy for such personal data to be potentially used against them like that's absolutely their choice, may be their only choice

Reversal · 12-06-2021 1:48pm

Not one person on this thread would reveal their max budget when bidding second hand.

This is an entire set of buyers and future buyers doing the exact same thing on a longer timeframe.

12-06-2021 1:53pm

Reversal wrote: »

Maybe not before, but now they have the dataset their at the fingertips telling them exactly how much their prospective buyers can afford. Incredibly naive to think it wont form part of that decision.

If people are happy for such personal data to be potentially used against them like that's absolutely their choice, may be their only choice

I think you are making a mountain out of a molehill. If demand at launch outstrips supply, the Seller/EA wants to ensure those interested in buying can afford the fixed price. It’s pretty simple, having that “dataset” will have no baring on the next phase price, what will have a baring is the demand, a developer does not care about mortgage approvals.

Is there not a lot of data available online about mortgage lending levels?

Reversal · 12-06-2021 2:01pm

Dav010 wrote: »

I think you are making a mountain out of a molehill. If demand at launch outstrips supply, the Seller/EA wants to ensure those interested in buying can afford the fixed price. It’s pretty simple, having that “dataset” will have no baring on the next phase price, what will have a baring is the demand, a developer does not care about mortgage approvals.

Is there not a lot of data available online about mortgage lending levels?

Did you actually read the OP? You also MUST provide your own personal bank statements showing exactly how much savings you have, proof of HTB amount and proof of any cash gifts.

They must not have redacted figures.

FromADistance · 12-06-2021 2:29pm

Reversal wrote: »

Did you actually read the OP? You also MUST provide your own personal bank statements showing exactly how much savings you have, proof of HTB amount and proof of any cash gifts.

They must not have redacted figures.

I would say if this practice was flagged to the Data Commissioner, the Estate Agent wouldn't have much of a leg to stand on. It's completely nieve to believe that this information would have no baring on pricing. It obviously wouldn't be the only consideration but it most definitely would be useful to have. In the estate I purchased in, the pricing was still being discussed right up to the day before launch. Imagine how much easier life would be for the Developer & Estate Agents having all this additional data to hand weeks in advance.

Calahonda52 · 12-06-2021 2:36pm

Report to Data Commissioner. CCPC and the CB.

12-06-2021 2:50pm

Reversal wrote: »

Did you actually read the OP? You also MUST provide your own personal bank statements showing exactly how much savings you have, proof of HTB amount and proof of any cash gifts.

They must not have redacted figures.

You must provide proof of funds, they list the information that may include depending on the way you are financing the purchase, mortgage, cash, FTB grant etc. Why would they consider your application if you cannot afford, and show proof you can afford the property?. If you are a time waster, or have a problem with providing proof, just move on.

Alkers · 12-06-2021 3:10pm

For a new build with a fixed price it's not s big deal really, obviously would be a no go for a potential bidding war!

Graham · 12-06-2021 3:54pm

Calahonda52 wrote: »

Report to Data Commissioner.

+1

I'd have absolutely no doubt the level of information they're looking for is excessive certainly at the stage they're looking for it.

I don't see any way it aligns with purpose limitation and data minimisation.

Reversal · 12-06-2021 5:00pm

Dav010 wrote: »

You must provide proof of funds, they list the information that may include depending on the way you are financing the purchase, mortgage, cash, FTB grant etc. Why would they consider your application if you cannot afford, and show proof you can afford the property?. If you are a time waster, or have a problem with providing proof, just move on.

Jesus you couldn't be missing the point more. If I needed to buy and hadn't already ruled this place out, and didn't have any other options I probably would end up handing the information over, because what other choice do you have.

But that doesn't change the fact that it is wrong, and I certainly do believe this information could be used to the advantage of the the developer settings a floor on prices in the next phase.

12-06-2021 5:51pm

Dav010 wrote: »

Yes, I am dismissive of your suggestion that your mortgage approval forms part of consideration on next phase prices.

Do you think any seller considers mortgage approval levels when selling their house? Or do they consider what similar properties sell for and demand?

Of course it does. They get data about the earnings and deposits out there.

javaboy · 12-06-2021 5:52pm

Alkers wrote: »

For a new build with a fixed price it's not s big deal really, obviously would be a no go for a potential bidding war!

Estate agents handle new builds and second hand sales. You might provide this info now but pull out or miss out and then end up dealing with the same agent for a second hand sale in a bidding situation.

There are entire industries built on customer relation management tracking this kind of info and even more trivial stuff. If you don’t think this information is extremely valuable and sensitive, you’re naive or haven’t been paying attention.

Busi_Girl08 · 14-06-2021 8:33am

I'd wonder how many over-eager buyers jumped the gun and sent in their information already without seeking advice first

14-06-2021 8:34am

Busi_Girl08 wrote: »

I'd wonder how many over-eager buyers jumped the gun and sent in their information already without seeking advice first

Doubt you’ll have to wait long to find that out.

14-06-2021 11:35am

You know what, I read the op and I thought to myself "there's no way someone will agree with this", and low and behold, there is. It's like Boards just cannot agree on one thing, no matter how ridiculous the topic.

At the end of the day, this is for a viewing, A VIEWING! Not an offer, not sale agreed, a simple viewing. And I really pity the people with their heads in the clouds thinking this won't be used to up the prices. Unfortunately, there will have been buyers who've sent all the docs in as they are in complete desperation to buy. But they'll find out the hard way when the price goes POA with 10k added on.

ec18 · 14-06-2021 11:50am

I would ask them you their data controller is and the associated storage policy they have in accordance with GDPR. And report to DPC, real estate agent body etc

Ray Palmer · 14-06-2021 5:12pm

Reversal wrote: »

Jesus you couldn't be missing the point more. If I needed to buy and hadn't already ruled this place out, and didn't have any other options I probably would end up handing the information over, because what other choice do you have.

But that doesn't change the fact that it is wrong, and I certainly do believe this information could be used to the advantage of the the developer settings a floor on prices in the next phase.

Just because you believe it possible they are doing this doesn't make it reality. I worked on a project that gets photos of people and stores it for identification. A good friend of mine told me how the gardai had access to these photos and connected to community CCTV to track people. I explained how it was not possible and the gardai can't access one image let alone the entire amount. Wouldn't believe me. You sound like him.

GDPR allows for gathering of data if relevant and this is relevant. They just cannot share it or keep it indefinitely. No laws even vaguely been broken here. People really do make up their own fears

Graham · 14-06-2021 5:16pm

Ray Palmer wrote: »

GDPR allows for gathering of data if relevant and this is relevant.

Not pre-viewing it's not.

14-06-2021 5:20pm

Anyway, the minister for housing agrees that this practice is wrong and says he will be writing to the PRSA and IPAV with regards to it.

Ray Palmer · 14-06-2021 5:25pm

Graham wrote: »

Not pre-viewing it's not.

You can gather data all you like if people give it to you. GDPR is basically about what you do with it once you get it.

Point to the legislation that says you cannot. I work with GDPR rules for a living so if I am missing something there will be national problems

Ray Palmer · 14-06-2021 5:27pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Anyway, the minister for housing agrees that this practice is wrong and says he will be writing to the PRSA and IPAV with regards to it.

So what? He sends them a letter and they still haven't broken any laws. Weird how people know so little about how the government works and how laws override what they say.

Amadan Dubh · 14-06-2021 5:49pm

A story just published in the IT demonstrating the mania phase of the market cycle we are in. Savills claim it is due to covid restrictions but that is bull at this stage of reopening. It's tragic to see this, lemmings scurrying to the edge of the cliff.

Savills asks house viewers for evidence of mortgage approval, savings and family gifts

5,000 house hunters registered to view 44 homes at the Somerton scheme in Lucan

Estate agent Savills has asked prospective home buyers to provide proof that they have funding before they are allowed to view the new homes scheme it is marketing at Somerton in Lucan.

For potential purchasers attending the actual launch of the scheme – at which people may bid for a property – potential buyers are advised to be “as prepared as possible”. Those interested in securing a house at the launch will need to provide a €10,000 deposit via EFT to Savills on the day, full proof of funds or mortgage approval, and their solicitor details.

MacronvFrugals · 14-06-2021 5:54pm

Amadan Dubh wrote: »

A story just published in the IT demonstrating the mania phase of the market cycle we are in. Savills claim it is due to covid restrictions but that is bull at this stage of reopening. It's tragic to see this, lemmings scurrying to the edge of the cliff.

Darragh O Brien responded:

https://twitter.com/DarraghOBrienTD/status/1404459482613260294?s=20

RotaryPhone · 14-06-2021 6:06pm

We're certainly not comfortable with providing this level of personal information to an estate agent just to view a property. Especially over email where we have zero knowledge on how or where that data will be stored. Most estate agents we've dealt with so far have been happy for us to provide an AIP letter with all PII redacted, including the $ amount.

Truly surprised how dismissive some people are being about this.

Cyrus · 14-06-2021 6:09pm

Yet people have also complained on this thread about bids from buyers who didn't have the required funding in place.....

hi! · 14-06-2021 6:32pm

RotaryPhone wrote: »

We're certainly not comfortable with providing this level of personal information to an estate agent just to view a property. Especially over email where we have zero knowledge on how or where that data will be stored. Most estate agents we've dealt with so far have been happy for us to provide an AIP letter with all PII redacted, including the $ amount.

Truly surprised how dismissive some people are being about this.

It’s truly shocking. Asking for bank statements with nothing redacted just to VIEW a show house is madness

EA Requesting an Inappropriate Level of Information

Comments