Pressure on where to live

LegacyUser · 31-05-2021 9:47am #1

Hi all,

For the last number of years myself and my wife were trying to save money to build. Thankfully we succeeded. I come from farming background but only dabbled with my Dad on weekends. It's a holding of 50ac and not enough to sustain a family anymore. My dad potters around, more as a hobby. I've no interest in it as a hobby or anything else. Myself and wife (also a farmer/small builders daughter) decided to build near her parents, 40 miles from mine. We knew my parents would be upset but for us and our child it makes most sense.

Now in the last few years my Dad inherited land. Our 50ac is now 400. With all the extra on lease to other farmers. It was that way before the man died and willed it to my dad. In reality, it doesn't change much. We still have 50ac for our own use.

I know though that my Dad is pushing on. He wants us near by to look after himself and my mother. I've a sister in Australia who says she wants to come home but has being saying that since 2016. She works in a shoe shop there and her husband in a Currys type place. They aren't raking in huge dollars and seem to just get enough to make ends meet.

Last year myself and the wife started designing and recently got permission to build our house near her home place. Great news, prices gone through the roof and our hopes of a <10 year mortgage are gone. We'd spend all our saving, plus mortgage to build now (1900sqft house). I'm worried we'd be left with nothing. Where we are renting is a 2 bed house where our new work from home office is in beside the childs cot. There isn't even a back yard/garden for the child to play in. At 3, he's mad to be out exploring. To say it's not ideal is an understatement. We're here because it's cheap and we were saving.

My head is melted. I told my dad at the weekend about our house plans and he went mental. Says he might as well had no family and they'll just be "****ed" into a home out of sight. My wife will not move to my parish and I don't blame her. I'm not a fan of it myself and left 25 years ago. My dad seemed to think that someday I'd be back and give up work and work the land with him. No way.

So now I don't know what to do, where to go or anything. My mind is racing all day and can't relax. I know what I want to do and what is right for me and my family. On the other side I'm being made out to be a prick by my dad. I give up everything for him and my mother. Last 3 years out of 75 days annual leave, I took 3 for myself. The other 72 were down working with him at whatever jobs he deems important from drainage, fodder making, hedge cutting, turf cutting, painting, washing, etc, etc, etc. I felt obligated to this as I was always told "it's in your interest as someday, this will all be yours". And to be honest, I don't mind doing it as it's a welcome change of pace.

I'm not sure what I expect out of this thread. Maybe I just needed to write stuff down

Jequ0n · 31-05-2021 10:11pm

It’s not your job or calling to look after your father. Just because he decided that you should look after him in old age doesn’t mean that you need to do it.

Same applies to your OH and their family.

qwerty13 · 01-06-2021 12:16am

There’s a lot of issues going on here. And they’re the most difficult ones to resolve: family expectations, potential inheritance, and farming.

Your Dad isn’t entitled to dictate where or how you live. You don’t like your home town, and don’t want to live there. I guess there’s a question as to whether an amount of money would sweeten/change that for you.

Your Dad would clearly value you moving nearer to him to look after your parents in their old age - but I think it’s extremely unfair of him to expect this as a right. Could he not sell the land that he inherited, in order to fund potential carers or care homes? Or do you expect that he won’t sell land off?

It sounds like you’re in a situation similar to someone I know: he works his backside off for his father, always promised a site, but nothing ever comes of it - only a vague promise of ‘someday this will be yours’. The guy I know has been doing that since he was 20. So 25 years in now.

I think you’ve made a mistake in creating an expectation with your father, re the 72/75 days off. You need to manage this better. And talk to him. Not saying that he’s right, but I think communicating better would have prevented the current situation.

antix80 · 01-06-2021 4:17am

Hi op
Your dad lived his life and all he has to offer you is a white elephant.
Stay where you are. 40 miles away is perfect as you can still visit but not close enough that you'll be living on top of your parents.
Build a house that doesn't stretch you too much financially but don't worry about a 10 year mortgage.. 25 to 30 is more realistic. It may be cheaper to buy 2nd hand and renovate.

TP_CM · 01-06-2021 4:51am

I don't know where these parents are coming from putting pressure on their grown children to live their lives in a certain way. I'm hearing it a lot amongst friends as I myself grow older. It's the same kind of thing as them putting on pressure to have grandchildren. It's really none of their business.

You have your own family now OP (wife and child). They are your number 1 priority above siblings and parents. I personally would drop the romantic dream of building because these days it's impossible to find tradesmen to do anything. They're rushing through jobs because the boom is back. I would find a 2nd hand place which needs a small bit of renovation which allows you to put your stamp on a spot. The price of a lot of building materials has soared as you say, some by over 100% in the space of 1 year alone.

Keep it simple - Find a 2nd hand with a back garden near some schools and make sure it's somewhere you and your wife are both happy living because life is hard enough as it is without dealing with builders and misunderstood requirements and crappy tradesmanship.

Also - You refusing to take on the caregiver role for your father might force him to consider other (better) options in terms of how he lives the next phase of his life. Giving space allows/forces people to grow in ways we can't imagine.

Recliner · 01-06-2021 5:30am

"I felt obligated to this as I was always told "it's in your interest as someday, this will all be yours". And to be honest, I don't mind doing it as it's a welcome change of pace."

In fairness to your Dad, he seems to have voiced his beliefs over the last 3 years and you don't seem to have disabused him of them at any stage.

I'm not suggesting that you give up all your plans but can a reasonable conversation be had between you and your mother even, just to get things rolling.
I'm probably in the minority but I'd consider myself very hard hearted not to look after any member of my family if and when it was needed.
Also 40 miles isn't a huge distance.

Just my tuppence worth..

Lumen · 01-06-2021 5:53am

Simple solutions...

Offer to build a house with a grandpersons annex, move them in, get them to sell the farm to pay for it, agree something about inheritance to tilt in your favour so you're not left with unsustainable debt.

Will possibly create rows in future with sister, particularly since she's skint, so propose alternative that she comes back and lives with him. She would then have a reasonable expectation of getting the lion share of the inheritance, having abandoned her sunny dreams.

Both plans require careful legal advice and possibly equity shares allocated up front.

If neither of these plans is acceptable, do your own thing and don't feel bad. It's normal for the parent doing the majority of the childcare to want close by support from family.

Panthro · 01-06-2021 7:54am

I'd hold off on proposing an annexe beside your new home OP, that's a convo to be had with your wife first.

amacca · 07-06-2021 11:25am

Can you take it head on and do a deal that the 400 acres will be in your name unencumbered?

You look after the parents as carer and/or get part time gig.

Explain you have a family to look after and responsibilities and you want to do the right thing but you need to know you'll be looked after too and not left high and dry.

I always think if you get it out in the open and you have fair intentions the other parties intentions will be clear from how they react.

400 acres is nothing to be sneezed at even if all you ever did was keep it rented..might be the best long term for you and your family.

Could the burden be split between you and the sister and you share and allow both of us to have lives

The way I look at it your in a good position as you can propose all options now and you are not stuck with a costly white elephant building project.

As previous poster said get good legal advice....be careful about clauses in transfers that could see land sold out frim under you etc

**** not liking your townland. This could be a chance for you or you and your sister to build a good life if its managed properly. Assuming it's somewhat decent land.

My advice

Talk it out openly and honestly with the parents, avoid arguments or telling them how much you have done for them. See what sort of a deal can be done to everyone's satisfaction knowing all of you will have to reach some sort of compromise. Don't talk to one parent and not the other sit down with both in the open and ask what they want. Then see what you can do that still leaves you with a life. Remember they have worries and difficulties too which can lead to them getting angry etc

Sonic the Shaghog · 07-06-2021 4:08pm

This is the bloody problem with a lot of farms up and down the country, awkward oul fellas holding onto the bloody farm til are into their 70s nearly and constantly expecting adult children with families to do the work as "sure it's going to be left to you" and in plenty of cases expect them to pay for feed, help pay for machinery etc while the parents keep all the payments and grants, going around then like they are great lads bringing around grandkids that they are literally taking money from that should be used to feed and cloth them

Its literally free labour, just because you are family and you might get it eventually

Even better with the fair deal scheme all these eejits decide to transfer it when the son/daughter is nearly 50 themselves and then the parent needs to go into a nursing home within 5 years and the HSE takes a nice chunk of it

At best I'd be telling your oul fella if your wife ever comes around to it he's to transfer over the land or a least a good portion you can rent out if he wants you living nearby and doing anything on it, don't hold your breath unfortunately

qwerty13 · 07-06-2021 9:56pm

Sonic’s post made me wonder if it’s not so much that your wife doesn’t want to live in your homeland, but that she has all along been able to see clearer than you what your Dad’s expectations are - and that what he expects of you is not compatible with the life she’d hope for for your family unit (ie you, her and your kids).

I’m wondering if she’s thought this for a while, but didn’t want to hurt your feelings by coming out and laying all of her cards on the table - but that perhaps you can see this a little clearer now after the blow-up with your Dad.

But the more I think of it, 72/75 days AL over 3 yrs spent working for your Dad is not fair on your wife and kids either.

Tough situation, as your Dad is making you feel as though you’re being disloyal to him, which I don’t believe is the case at all. I don’t know what the best path is, but I’m thinking have a proper sit down with your wife and you both get to lay out all the pros and cons of every decision. But you might have to hear some things about your Dad that you don’t like.

14-06-2021 10:09pm

400 acres ain't bad at all!!! You can make a go of that. What jobs do you and your wife have? Why do you have to live near her parents?

Less of the "woe is me". "I give up everything" and your example is you spent your leave helping your da on the farm, which is something you enjoy?

Make sure you don't want it because it seems obvious that your sister and the TV salesman will be lured home with it. Will you be happy to see them working the land, or profiting from it?

Think of the future, generational security of your family. Don't give up a 400 acre farm. Over 40 miles?? I was expecting to read 400 which would be fair enough. You must be mad.

Why does it "make most sense" to live 40 miles (not that far) away beside her parents? What can factor can "make most sense" to override the massive benefit of 400 acres (at least a few million euro)?

JustAThought · 15-06-2021 6:54pm

OP - Look at it from this pov - your Dad sees that you are chosing her family over yours, and her hometown and ‘upbringing’ for your kids - over his. I can see how that could be a bitter pill.

Fair dues to the other family for entrusting 350 acres to your Dad. He must have done something good to be bequeathed that - for all you know there was a cash sweetner along the way - you never know.

Your Mom and Dad might live long and hearty for a good time yet. Or they might not be so lucky. Have you considered that they take a trip to Australia to visit (& stay with) your sister? It could be interesting fir them and maybe help consolidate if she would want to be their live in daughter & come back with her husband to do that & be part of the farm. Which could resolve some issues.

What do you work at? Can you have an office rented in your wifes townland and commute to a house built on your/ the new land? Would you consider a smaller house? I hear on the building forum that supplies and labour have gone through the roof or are difficult to get with building backlogs and Britexit. This might drasticLly change in 6 or 8 months when the next wave of Poles/Croations/Britexiteer returnees come back.

Is there a way of looking at the 50 acres differently? A cimbined farm & business or a new venture? Something less demanding. Would your Dad consider it?

HSE & other organisations can ‘now’ help families differently - drop by carers and up to 4 or 5 contact hours a day of help. The old structures of moving back and living there don’t apply anymore. You can have your cake and eat it as a son.

Your old townland. I have places I wouldn’t like to live either. But now the rules are different. I have a car. I don’t have to socialise there as I can take a taxi or Use my car to drive somewhere else handy. I’m now an adult so don’t have to go to the places I used have to go with/because of my parents. I also have my own home deaigned/chosen and done up the way I want - not someone elses house & an environment I am happy in - regardless of what is outside the curtains at night when I’m back. You can set the rules - different people, having a great home & your own lived ones there & not having to hang out or be with people or in places you don’t want to - use the best of it & drive elsewhere.

There’s no way now I’d ever recommend someone to take out a 25 or 30 year mortgage - and especially not in this ‘market’ or with the modern pressures. No house is worth that huge pressure & the sacrifices you will have to make for the rest of your healthy life to pay it off. Believe me. Can you go smaller and plan to extend ? Or wait and save and maybe hire a hot-desk somewhere - plenty popping up. Maybe that could be part of your new business. Lots to think about.

I certainly wouldn’t burn any bridges now. 400 acres & many rented out - bliss - when the real worries are autonomy & being saddled with a carers-role for someone incapacitated. When no-one is incapacitated! Someone I know got a ‘student’ in - au pair style - rent free living & a weekly cash pocket money with an au lairs contract in return for specific hours of work and duties - we all need to be imaginative in out solutions. I can imagine the bind but a 400 acre farm (rented out!) and not being a slave to the labour market & company structures & random policies and God knows what manager for life. It really is a gift. And I can see why a lifesdream like that for your father to achieve for himself and be told jts not wanted could be unintentionally really hurtful.

Pressure on where to live

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