Formula 1 2018: General Discussion Thread

Infoanon · 15-01-2018 11:48am

Top Dog wrote: »

And yet somehow no-body believes them :pac:

Pirelli have waded in now - Pirelli who have the same data as Williams - believe Kubica did a good job in Abu Dhabi and deserves the opportunity to return to Formula 1.

Harika · 16-01-2018 12:20pm

https://twitter.com/WilliamsRacing/status/953223742271971329

#sad

boardsuser1 · 16-01-2018 12:26pm

Just read the bit on Sky about Paddy Lowe, basically in plain English “Sirotkin brings loads of money and that’s all that matters”

Frank Bullitt · 16-01-2018 12:49pm

Kubica gets a reserve role.

Its early days yet, but I would see the Williams line-up as the weakest on the grid by a fair shot.

skipper_G · 16-01-2018 12:50pm

That's a weak lineup when compared to the teams they will be fighting against.
They can spout all the rubbish they want, this was about $$$ plain and simple.

boardsuser1 · 16-01-2018 12:52pm

Gintonious wrote: »

Kubica gets a reserve role.

Its early days yet, but I would see the Williams line-up as the weakest on the grid by a fair shot.

I wonder is he an insurance policy against either Stroll or Sirotkin, if the team is doing crap will the money those 2 bring be enough to make up for the losses in the contructors championship.

Will Kubica get much time in the car over the course of the season?

Between now and Melbourne you'd expect him to be in it when the other 2 aren't.

Frank Bullitt · 16-01-2018 1:37pm

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

I wonder is he an insurance policy against either Stroll or Sirotkin, if the team is doing crap will the money those 2 bring be enough to make up for the losses in the contructors championship.

Will Kubica get much time in the car over the course of the season?

Between now and Melbourne you'd expect him to be in it when the other 2 aren't.

He gets 8 practise sessions, winter testing and other tests as well. So he will be around.

Stroll didn't really improve at all last year, his Baku race was great but that was a mad race. The team also has a Mere PU in it, so they don't have a McLaren excuse either.

Mind you, if Kubica is developing the car, and they have Russian money, the car could evolve to a high performance degree, but ultimately they will be let down by Stroll and Sirotkin.

Cool_CM · 16-01-2018 1:39pm

Taking emotion out of it, I can totally understand this call. The team have been in the doldrums for years, have shown no signs of challenging for titles and it has obviously taken a financial toll on them. It's absolutely understandable that, at a stage where they are showing signs of financial recovery, they would take the money and invest it in the groundwork for getting back to where they should be.

Frank Bullitt · 16-01-2018 2:06pm

Cool_CM wrote: »

Taking emotion out of it, I can totally understand this call. The team have been in the doldrums for years, have shown no signs of challenging for titles and it has obviously taken a financial toll on them. It's absolutely understandable that, at a stage where they are showing signs of financial recovery, they would take the money and invest it in the groundwork for getting back to where they should be.

Indeed, its a business decision.

This does come with a big risk in 2 incredibly inexperienced drivers. Sponsors etc will roll if results don't show up.

Strolls results last year were so-so for a rookie, he had his moments but he was very inconsistent. Sirotken has some F1 experience but none in a race or in that capacity.

Its a bit of an unknown but you would be forgiven for looking at it as a glass half empty.

boardsuser1 · 16-01-2018 2:12pm

Gintonious wrote: »

He gets 8 practise sessions, winter testing and other tests as well. So he will be around.

Stroll didn't really improve at all last year, his Baku race was great but that was a mad race. The team also has a Mere PU in it, so they don't have a McLaren excuse either.

Mind you, if Kubica is developing the car, and they have Russian money, the car could evolve to a high performance degree, but ultimately they will be let down by Stroll and Sirotkin.

Gintonious wrote: »

Indeed, its a business decision.

This does come with a big risk in 2 incredibly inexperienced drivers. Sponsors etc will roll if results don't show up.

Strolls results last year were so-so for a rookie, he had his moments but he was very inconsistent. Sirotken has some F1 experience but none in a race or in that capacity.

Its a bit of an unknown but you would be forgiven for looking at it as a glass half empty.

In relation to Stroll's results last year there were 2 that i can clearly remember;

Baku 3rd,Bottas took 2nd off him literally on the line. This podium only happened for 2 reasons, 1. Vettel driving into Hamilton. 2. Hamilton's headrest working look forcing the extra pitstop.

Monza 2nd on the grid. After initially qualifying 4th i believe, on a wet track he was elevated to 2nd after penalties are dished out, he couldn't maintain it in the race, the performance in general.

As has been mentioned previously, Massa clearly got the better of him bar the podium itself.

muckwarrior · 16-01-2018 2:27pm

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

As has been mentioned previously, Massa clearly got the better of him bar the podium itself.

Also, wasn't Massa ahead of him before being forced to retire? It's not like Stroll was incredibly quick on the day. The car clearly suited the track, he benefited from other's misfortune and, at best, he managed to match his over-the-hill team mate.

How many millions will it cost Williams to make their car several tenths faster just to compensate for their terrible driver lineup?

mickdw · 16-01-2018 2:31pm

8 practice sessions will allow kubica to stick around anyway. I guess he has a small opportunity still.

Infoanon · 16-01-2018 3:23pm

mickdw wrote: »

8 practice sessions will allow kubica to stick around anyway. I guess he has a small opportunity still.

Kubica will be what Paddy Lowe refers to as 'the reference point'

In the same way that was Massas role last year and its clear that Lowe would have been more than happy to have retained Massa.

Williams could produce the best Mercedes car this year - unlikely - but it will not be able to challenge Force India or Mercedes due to its weak line up of pay drivers. With all the other teams upping their game a team that only recently could compete for 3rd in the constructors and have podiums on a regular basis will be struggling to finish ahead of Haas/Sauber and Toro Rosso.

boardsuser1 · 16-01-2018 4:08pm

I,like many of us here hope this leads to Kubica being back on the grid in 2019.
http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/11210067/robert-kubica-still-targeting-full-f1-return-after-missing-out-on-williams-2018-seat

Ghost Train · 17-01-2018 6:40am

Hard to see Williams having a good season with two young drivers, hopefully they survive it

Harika · 17-01-2018 9:47am

The Stroll money should now kick in for Development, Paddy Lowe should be able to put more of his knowledge in. Overall I think the drivers will hold them back.

Schorpio · 17-01-2018 9:51am

I have to say, I feel this is Williams taking a short-term cash-out, rather than reaping the long-term benefits that Kubica would have brought.

Think of all of the coverage Robert would have got. The hype before Australia. Think of all of the potential young fans, and people who have never before watched f1, who would be going out of their way to watch Robert race. There would be a big potential for new lifelong Williams fans.

Instead they have a young, pay driver who - simply because of the very nature of who he was fighting with for the drive - a lot of f1 regulars won't be too keen to support.

As with everything though - it's history which will determine whether Williams has done the right thing. If Sergy goes on to be a world champ, then people will ultimately say that they did the right thing. If he becomes one of those drivers who just fades away - well, I'm not sure history will be that kind.

boardsuser1 · 17-01-2018 5:43pm

LIGHTNING wrote: »

It may make financial sense for Williams but its a real shame. Would have made a great story if Robert got the drive. Up there with some of the great F1 recoveries like we saw with Lauda.

If Kubica proves himself in his outings and Bottas doesn’t live upto expectations in his second season, Kubica is rated highly by Hamilton and they go back nearly 20 years.

You get where this is going.

Fact or fiction for 2019?

Schorpio · 17-01-2018 5:50pm

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

If Kubica proves himself in his outings and Bottas doesn’t live upto expectations in his second season, Kubica is rated highly by Hamilton and they go back nearly 20 years.

You get where this is going.

Fact or fiction for 2019?

Ha, would love it to be fact, but can't ever see it.

Lewis never really wants to be challenged. Deep down I think he wants the 'defined number 2' model that Ferrari champion. Look at his tumultuous relationship with Nico and Fernando as teammates.

Interestingly, in his most recent vlog, Nico was asked about Lewis, and he said they they were genuinely good friends in the karting days, but that changed in f1 -and maybe someday they will be friends again. He seemed a bit remorseful. So, I don't think being friends really matters to Lewis in the paddock!

skipper_G · 17-01-2018 5:51pm

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

If Kubica proves himself in his outings and Bottas doesn’t live upto expectations in his second season, Kubica is rated highly by Hamilton and they go back nearly 20 years.

You get where this is going.

Fact or fiction for 2019?

If Esteban Ocon continues this year where he left off in 2017, then he would be in pole position for any open Merc seat

boardsuser1 · 17-01-2018 6:16pm

skipper_G wrote: »

If Esteban Ocon continues this year where he left off in 2017, then he would be in pole position for any open Merc seat

Bottas to FI as his replacement due to the Mercedes engines?

I'd say the top team ship has sailed where Perez is concerned.

McLaren was the wrong time.

boardsuser1 · 17-01-2018 6:17pm

Schorpio wrote: »

Ha, would love it to be fact, but can't ever see it.

Lewis never really wants to be challenged. Deep down I think he wants the 'defined number 2' model that Ferrari champion. Look at his tumultuous relationship with Nico and Fernando as teammates.

Interestingly, in his most recent vlog, Nico was asked about Lewis, and he said they they were genuinely good friends in the karting days, but that changed in f1 -and maybe someday they will be friends again. He seemed a bit remorseful. So, I don't think being friends really matters to Lewis in the paddock!

I loved that 2007 season

Jordan 199 · 18-01-2018 11:15am

McLaren launch: 23rd of February.

Toronto Rosso: 25th of February.

Frank Bullitt · 18-01-2018 11:22am

Jordan 199 wrote: »

McLaren launch: 23rd of February.

Toronto Rosso: 25th of February.

Mercedes on the 22nd and Ferrari on the 23rd also.

*Edit* Actually, Mercedes and Ferrari are both on the 22nd Feb

Frankie Lee · 20-01-2018 6:26pm

Gintonious wrote: »

Kubica gets a reserve role.

Its early days yet, but I would see the Williams line-up as the weakest on the grid by a fair shot.

Williams haven't had a strong driver lineup since 2010 when Hulkenberg (debut season) and Barrichello were there.

Jordan 199 · 21-01-2018 3:51am

David-Coulthard-Red-Bull-Test-Jerez-2004-fotoshowBig-34c572bc-923382.jpg

I was looking at test liveries earlier and the Red Bull one above does stand out.

Cookie_Monster · 21-01-2018 8:51am

Their Supercar has a lot more white this year, to be reflected int he F1 livery maybe?
4372a9667f5122744911b101ce607849?width=650

flazio · 21-01-2018 9:48am

Anyone know when pre season testing is on? Presumably Barcelona unless the Catalans uprise again.

Jordan 199 · 21-01-2018 10:42am

flazio wrote: »

Anyone know when pre season testing is on? Presumably Barcelona unless the Catalans uprise again.

26th of February to the 1st of March and 6th of March to the 9th of March. All at Barcelona.

Frank Bullitt · 22-01-2018 4:12pm

https://www.designweek.co.uk/issues/15-21-january-2018/formula-1-face-legal-battle-new-logo/

Looks like the ever popular new F1 logo could be involved in a bit of a legal battle soon.

In fairness, it is pretty similar.

US-based company 3M – which also manufactures Post-It notes – is now alleging that the F1 logo infringes on their copyright, given the similarity to the branding on the company’s range of flight compression tights from its sub-brand Futuro.

donspeekinglesh · 22-01-2018 4:30pm

You'd think a design publication would know the difference between copyright and trademark. :rolleyes:
But they are very alike.

Jordan 199 · 23-01-2018 8:16pm

Force India will launch their new car with a new team name and logo. Due to happen at Barcelona on the 25th of February.

boardsuser1 · 23-01-2018 8:18pm

Jordan 199 wrote: »

Force India will launch their new car with a new team name and logo. Due to happen at Barcelona on the 25th of February.

Lets hope there isn't copyright issues there as well :pac:

Anesthetize · 23-01-2018 8:28pm

Jordan 199 wrote: »

Force India will launch their new car with a new team name and logo. Due to happen at Barcelona on the 25th of February.

Jordan seems like a good name for an F1 team.

Frank Bullitt · 24-01-2018 1:51pm

Anesthetize wrote: »

Jordan seems like a good name for an F1 team.

As long as its yellow.

flazio · 24-01-2018 1:56pm

Gintonious wrote: »

As long as its yellow.

Would be hard to distinguish from a Renault though. 7up green is the way to go.

Frank Bullitt · 24-01-2018 2:05pm

flazio wrote: »

Would be hard to distinguish from a Renault though. 7up green is the way to go.

Easy fix, put a hornet on the nose.

boardsuser1 · 24-01-2018 2:06pm

Gintonious wrote: »

Easy fix, put a hornet on the nose.

The livery from those days was far better than today.

The one i'll never forget though is the 1999 BAR :pac:

Frank Bullitt · 24-01-2018 2:11pm

As its preseason etc, here is a sweet BAR from 1998 in a testing livery.

Its an absolute beat.

boardsuser1 · 24-01-2018 2:14pm

Gintonious wrote: »

As its preseason etc, here is a sweet BAR from 1998 in a testing livery.

Its an absolute beat.

That livery was nice, they should have kept it.

The dual Lucky Strike/555 branding was rubbish.

On separate cars, as they wanted to run it, looked fine, but the FIA wouldn't allow it.

Frank Bullitt · 24-01-2018 2:17pm

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

That livery was nice, they should have kept it.

The dual Lucky Strike/555 branding was rubbish.

On separate cars, as they wanted to run it, looked fine, but the FIA wouldn't allow it.

You're right, individually they looked nice.

Frank Bullitt · 24-01-2018 2:36pm

Seems like they ran this livery twice. Here you can see the Honda badges on the car and helmet. They switched to Honda after they used the Supertec ones in 1999, so I would guess this was pre-season 2000.

Sorry, I love little details like this.

boardsuser1 · 24-01-2018 2:50pm

Gintonious wrote: »

Seems like they ran this livery twice. Here you can see the Honda badges on the car and helmet. They switched to Honda after they used the Supertec ones in 1999, so I would guess this was pre-season 2000.

Sorry, I love little details like this.

I'll always remember either Craig Pollock or Adrian Reynard saying that they would win a race in their first season, yet didn't score a point.

Villeneuve retired from the first 11 races and Zonta broke a bone in his foot in Brazil.

When Mika Salo stood in, he scored the team's best result that year, 7th in Monaco.

The above photo was probably the 1999 spec car with a Honda engine in the off season perhaps?

The supertec engine being a rebadged 2 year old Renault wasn't it?

You'd be like myself with the small detail.

Best car from around that era was the 2000-2002 Arrows with Orange as title sponsor.

Frank Bullitt · 24-01-2018 2:56pm

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

I'll always remember either Craig Pollock or Adrian Reynard saying that they would win a race in their first season, yet didn't score a point.

Villeneuve retired from the first 11 races and Zonta broke a bone in his foot in Brazil.

When Mika Salo stood in, he scored the team's best result that year, 7th in Monaco.

The above photo was probably the 1999 spec car with a Honda engine in the off season perhaps?

The supertec engine being a rebadged 2 year old Renault wasn't it?

You'd be like myself with the small detail.

Best car from around that era was the 2000-2002 Arrows with Orange as title sponsor.

And that Arrows had a solid chassis, they would usually do well around Monaco and that was a track where the engine wasn't really a big factor.

You might be right with the 1999 car with a Honda bolted in. The Supertec engine was a joke of a thing, I would love to know how many of them they blew up that year.

boardsuser1 · 24-01-2018 3:08pm

Gintonious wrote: »

And that Arrows had a solid chassis, they would usually do well around Monaco and that was a track where the engine wasn't really a big factor.

You might be right with the 1999 car with a Honda bolted in. The Supertec engine was a joke of a thing, I would love to know how many of them they blew up that year.

I wonder did DC maintain his friendship with Enrique Bernoldi after Monaco 2001 :pac:

Arrows built far better cars than the likes of Minardi, Hungary 1997 anyone?

At least back then the sport was a bit unpredictable with unexpected engine blows, Irvine at Imola 1999, Schumacher France 2000, Hakkinen at Indianapolis 2001.

Not the farce we have today with reliability being too good.

Flavio Briatore didn't care how many engines blew up, he was still pocketing a fortune.

There was one race in 1998, can't remember the exact one, Frentzen's Suptertec had a massive blow up, it was on par with Fisichella's Honda blow up in Belgium 2002.

Vic_08 · 24-01-2018 9:56pm

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

I wonder did DC maintain his friendship with Enrique Bernoldi after Monaco 2001 :pac:

Arrows built far better cars than the likes of Minardi, Hungary 1997 anyone?

At least back then the sport was a bit unpredictable with unexpected engine blows, Irvine at Imola 1999, Schumacher France 2000, Hakkinen at Indianapolis 2001.

Not the farce we have today with reliability being too good.

You should apply for a job with the Honda PR department.

boardsuser1 · 24-01-2018 9:59pm

Vic_08 wrote: »

You should apply for a job with the Honda PR department.

Apologies, i should have excluded Honda from that bit :cool:

The last known Irish man to successfully work in F1 for a Japanese outfit was Richard Cregan, anyone remember him?

Peter Collins of RTE was obsessed with the guy.

Robbo · 25-01-2018 1:14pm

On BAR, it's mad that less than 20 years ago a publicly traded tobacco company decided to basically buy an F1 team for marketing purposes.

For background, the banning of tobacco advertising in the EU started in 1991 and the end of sponsorship was flagged well in advance of the 2003 Directive coming to pass after a long gestation. One can only imagine Bernie made all kinds of representations.

In other EU Law related news, Sauber and Force India have withdrawn their complaints to the European Commission regarding anti-competitive agreements. Whether or not the Commission see that as the end of things may well be another story but I don't cases of this nature are on their current agenda.

flexcon · 25-01-2018 5:08pm

Anyone here heading over to the testing in Barcelona? Heading over for the second week.

I've been there last year and was honestly the best experience to get up close to the cars with no crowds.

Formula 1 2018: General Discussion Thread

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