Guinness Pro14 Season 2018-2019

thomond2006 · 16-02-2019 10:13pm

Buer wrote: »

Jesus Christ.

This game is the most fun I've ever had with my clothes on.

I think we need to delete some posts. :pac:

Buer · 16-02-2019 10:16pm

Clancy should have penalised them. He called use it twice and then allowed them ask if the clock was dead.

What a game. Not a good result for the provinces.

ScrubsfanChris · 16-02-2019 10:16pm

Why on earth did he kick it? Lost the head.

Homesick Alien · 16-02-2019 10:16pm

What a finish. That was an absolute belter.

thomond2006 · 16-02-2019 10:16pm

ScrubsfanChris wrote: »

Why on earth did he kick it? Lost the head.

It almost worked. Glasgow did well not to be put into touch.

16-02-2019 10:19pm

Not good for us that they came away with two there.

Buer · 16-02-2019 10:22pm

ScrubsfanChris wrote: »

Why on earth did he kick it? Lost the head.

Kick was on in fairness but the chaser was dealt with well by defence and had to take a long route around. If he had a straight run, he'd have been in, I reckon.

ScrubsfanChris · 16-02-2019 10:28pm

Buer wrote: »

Kick was on in fairness but the chaser was dealt with well by defence and had to take a long route around. If he had a straight run, he'd have been in, I reckon.

High risk play though, and you already made it 40m down the field using hands.

molloyjh · 16-02-2019 10:33pm

Watching that try back there, the Cardiff right wing was all over the place.

thomond2006 · 16-02-2019 11:17pm

Munster (53): Ospreys (A), Scarlets (A), Zebre (H), HCC QF, Cardiff (H), Benetton (A), Possible HEC SF, Connacht (H)

Glasgow (51): Connacht (H), Zebre (A), Cheetahs (H), HCC QF, Ulster (H), Leinster (A), Possible HEC SF, Leinster (A), Edinburgh (H)

Connacht (42): Glasgow (A), Ospreys (H), Benetton (H), ECC QF, Zebre (A), Possible ECC SF, Cardiff (H), Munster (A)

Ospreys (38): Munster (H), Connacht (A), Dragons (H), Cheetahs (A), Kings (A), Cardiff (A)

Cardiff (38): Edinburgh (A), Kings (H), Scarlets (H), Munster (A), Connacht (A), Ospreys (H)

Cheetahs (36): Scarlets (A), Leinster (A), Glasgow (A), Ospreys (H), Dragons (H), Kings (H)

Glasgow's BP win at Cardiff keeps the pressure on Munster at the top. Munster may need to run the table as Glasgow's run-in looks very favourable. They do travel to Leinster but Leinster could be focusing on Europe (sorry Ulster) and put out the backup team.

Connacht face a daunting trip to Glasgow but otherwise the schedule isn't too bad. Like Glasgow going to Leinster, Connacht may travel to Munster with the home side forced to rotate the lineup.

As for the other three teams:

Ospreys' next two games are massive: Munster at home and Connacht away. They'll need to win at least one of those to remain in the hunt. Cardiff's chances look remote as they have to travel to Edinburgh, Connacht and Munster and have two home derbies.

We can safely write off the Cheetahs. Their upcoming away games are too difficult so they'll be eliminated by the time they return for their home run-in.

thomond2006 · 16-02-2019 11:27pm

Only two spots to play for here:

Edinburgh (41): Cardiff (H), Benetton (A), Leinster (H), HCC QF, Scarlets (A), Ulster (H), Possible HCC SF, Glasgow (A)

Benetton (41): Dragons (H), Edinburgh (H), Connacht (A), Leinster (A), Munster (H), Zebre (A)

Ulster (39): Zebre (H), Dragons (A), Kings (H), HCC QF, Glasgow (A), Edinburgh (A), Possible HCC SF, Leinster (H)

Scarlets (36): Cheetahs (H), Munster (H), Cardiff (A), Edinburgh (H), Zebre (H), Dragons (A)

Edinburgh's schedule is rotten. Cardiff at home next week is a must win and the following game away to Benetton is huge. Should they progress in Europe they could fall out of the top 3.

Benetton's next two games are must wins as they face three consecutive games against the Irish provinces. It may come down to the final day away to Zebre.

Ulster should collect at least 14 points from the next three games. They then face the two Scottish teams away from home and that will be tricky. Leinster at home on the final day screams banker win as Leinster will be focusing on Europe and/or the Pro14 playoffs.

Scarlets will pick up a win next week against the Cheetahs but the arrival of Munster could be the make or break game. I think they're a bit too far behind.

Neil3030 · 17-02-2019 1:06am

Wonder if the Welsh media will continue to bemoan the standard of the Pro14 if no Welsh team qualifies for a European place.

Schrodinger's Celt: the paradoxical simultaneous state of being in a league you consider crap, while your own teams are too crap for it.

troyzer · 17-02-2019 1:11am

Neil3030 wrote: »

Wonder if the Welsh media will continue to bemoan the standard of the Pro14 if no Welsh team qualifies for a European place.

Schrodinger's Celt: the paradoxical simultaneous state of being in a league you consider crap, while your own teams are too crap for it.

I would feel sorry for them if they weren't so dead set against shouldering the responsibility for their own failures.

Dubinusa · 17-02-2019 6:02am

It's funny though isn't it? The national team have won 10 straight and the regions are struggling.
I think the Blues may be the best of the Welch sides. At least from when I watched them play Leinster months ago.
I do feel bad for Scarlets. They've come undone this year.

The Lost Sheep · 17-02-2019 8:02pm

Neil3030 wrote: »

Wonder if the Welsh media will continue to bemoan the standard of the Pro14 if no Welsh team qualifies for a European place.

Schrodinger's Celt: the paradoxical simultaneous state of being in a league you consider crap, while your own teams are too crap for it.

Of course it will.

Dubinusa wrote: »

It's funny though isn't it? The national team have won 10 straight and the regions are struggling.
I think the Blues may be the best of the Welch sides. At least from when I watched them play Leinster months ago.
I do feel bad for Scarlets. They've come undone this year.

But thats been way for ages. Welsh team doing well while regions not.

So all 4 provinces won this weekend and all 4 welsh regions lost. Has that happened on same weekend before?

Eod100 · 17-02-2019 8:07pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Of course it will.

But thats been way for ages. Welsh team doing well while regions not.

So all 4 provinces won this weekend and all 4 welsh regions lost. Has that happened on same weekend before?

Not sure, 2012/2013 last time all Welsh teams lost apparently.

https://twitter.com/Stu_Farmer/status/1097205736768225285

Former Former · 17-02-2019 9:30pm

Neil3030 wrote: »

Wonder if the Welsh media will continue to bemoan the standard of the Pro14 if no Welsh team qualifies for a European place.

Schrodinger's Celt: the paradoxical simultaneous state of being in a league you consider crap, while your own teams are too crap for it.

In fairness, it goes a lot deeper than that.

The Welsh teams are not inherently crap (apart from Dragons, obvs) . The Ospreys, Scarlets and Blues have all been pretty competitive over the years. However, they are doing so in the face of an enormous player drain.

The last first choice international to leave an Irish province was Sexton in 2013, and we've only had a couple of less critical guys leave since then.

Now think about the Welsh players who've played abroad in that period. Halfpenny, L Williams, North, J Davies, J Roberts, Cuthbert, Biggar, Phillips, Webb, Faletau, Lydiate, Hibbard... Those are just the Welsh guys who played tests for the Lions in 2013 and 2017 who went abroad. Lions test players. Add in a heap of other guys and the wonder is not how bad the Welsh teams are but how they've managed to hold it together at all.

If the Irish teams were losing all our best players like that, do you think we'd be happy?

The bitter satisfaction at seeing the Welsh struggle is all well and good, but it overlooks two things;
1. If the Welsh teams fold, the Pro14 is gone and it's never coming back.
2. The much better situation of the Irish teams is partly down to IRFU foresight but also a lot of blind luck.

We need the Welsh to succeed. We're potentially looking at no Welsh team in Europe next year. A lot of posters here will be salivating at that but it would be an absolute disaster.

molloyjh · 17-02-2019 11:03pm

Former Former wrote: »

In fairness, it goes a lot deeper than that.

The Welsh teams are not inherently crap (apart from Dragons, obvs) . The Ospreys, Scarlets and Blues have all been pretty competitive over the years. However, they are doing so in the face of an enormous player drain.

The last first choice international to leave an Irish province was Sexton in 2013, and we've only had a couple of less critical guys leave since then.

Now think about the Welsh players who've played abroad in that period. Halfpenny, L Williams, North, J Davies, J Roberts, Cuthbert, Biggar, Phillips, Webb, Faletau, Lydiate, Hibbard... Those are just the Welsh guys who played tests for the Lions in 2013 and 2017 who went abroad. Lions test players. Add in a heap of other guys and the wonder is not how bad the Welsh teams are but how they've managed to hold it together at all.

If the Irish teams were losing all our best players like that, do you think we'd be happy?

The bitter satisfaction at seeing the Welsh struggle is all well and good, but it overlooks two things;
1. If the Welsh teams fold, the Pro14 is gone and it's never coming back.
2. The much better situation of the Irish teams is partly down to IRFU foresight but also a lot of blind luck.

We need the Welsh to succeed. We're potentially looking at no Welsh team in Europe next year. A lot of posters here will be salivating at that but it would be an absolute disaster.

You’re right, it is a lot deeper than that. So why are guys leaving? Better money elsewhere is a big reason. The way the set-up is over there has made it very hard to pay the kinds of salaries that we pay over here. Especially with the MS drain on WRU finances. And then to compound that issue they’ve been anything but strict in terms of who plays abroad but still plays for Wales. Quite the opposite in fact, they’ve folded at the first hurdle a couple of times now after putting in place rules in that area.

So then that starts to have wider implications. Less success means less sponsorship. It means less supporters so smaller gate receipts and smaller contracts from kit suppliers etc. It means less revenue from the P14 and HEC for knock out games.

The overall management of the game over there since it went pro has been very poor. Yes we got lucky with our pre-existing provinces, but centralising the whole thing into the IRFU was a bloody good call. And over the last 20 years a lot of the moves from the IRFU have been really positive. On the flip side, the WRU messed it up from the start and have been doing a really bad job of playing catch up ever since. None of which has been helped by a very stubborn and difficult club set-up and support base.

At the end of the day there is no easy answer to the Welsh issue. And certainly no quick fix. But for as long as they are run the way that they are, it won’t matter a damn what competition they are in. They are not set up to succeed. They need to sort out their own house. As a few journos over there have said in response to the “Irish teams don’t take the league seriously” complaint, it’s up to the opposition to make them. If it can become a hard won thing to qualify for Europe then maybe attitudes in the IRFU will change. But as it stands we can all but guarantee 3 provinces qualify. And Connacht are getting closer too. By default that means at least 3 provinces in the hunt for a play off spot each year. Why would we change our approach if it works at every level we compete at?

Former Former · 17-02-2019 11:46pm

I'm not saying we should change our approach, I'm saying that when people highlight the issues facing Welsh regional rugby, it shouldn't be dismissed as the moaning Welsh moaning again. There are serious issues that need to be highlighted and, whether we like it or not, the inherent rubbishness of the Pro14 is a major, major issue.

Things simply can't go on like they are.

troyzer · 17-02-2019 11:50pm

Former Former wrote: »

I'm not saying we should change our approach, I'm saying that when people highlight the issues facing Welsh regional rugby, it shouldn't be dismissed as the moaning Welsh moaning again. There are serious issues that need to be highlighted and, whether we like it or not, the inherent rubbishness of the Pro14 is a major, major issue.

Things simply can't go on like they are.

We roll our eyes because the Welsh constantly moan without proposing solutions and blame everyone else despite being 100% responsible for their own failings.

This idea that if only they could get into the Premiership, everything would be golden, is fantasy.

leakyboots · 18-02-2019 12:07am

When the national side's form dips, and it will because no side stays challenging at the top level in perpetuity, will we see a similar player drain I wonder? Will we cope with it as well as the Welsh have done?

They seem able to pull together nationally and win big when the clubs are not at the races.

Burkie1203 · 18-02-2019 8:27am

leakyboots wrote: »

When the national side's form dips, and it will because no side stays challenging at the top level in perpetuity, will we see a similar player drain I wonder? Will we cope with it as well as the Welsh have done?

They seem able to pull together nationally and win big when the clubs are not at the races.

I think our system is less at risk

One reason is the policy that isn't a policy
Another is the schools system

And the Player Welfare here works.

Look at how many injuries have been picked up this weekend. Biggar, Russell both went off injured over weekend.

thegreycity · 18-02-2019 9:24am

leakyboots wrote: »

When the national side's form dips, and it will because no side stays challenging at the top level in perpetuity, will we see a similar player drain I wonder? Will we cope with it as well as the Welsh have done?

They seem able to pull together nationally and win big when the clubs are not at the races.

It highlights the the importance of sticking to our guns when it comes to players overseas. Every time you put the temporary gain of filling a gap with a player from outside the provinces over the long term stability, you weaken the national team's playing hand, and it's a slippery slope once the floodgates open. You have to keep making more and more concessions because the success of the national team is paramount.

The Irish team could probably survive if most of its stars were foreign based, as the Welsh team has, but support for the provinces and interest in the domestic competitions would collapse. The IRFU get a hard time for their treatment of the provinces sometimes, but the foreign-based players rule has been a massive boost for them (not just in keeping stars, but attracting quality IE players too).

That's why it's incredibly frustrating when somebody obsesses about how exceptions should be made for this player or that player, it's short-sighted in the extreme.

I hope the decision to include foreign-based players on an individual basis in the national set-up isn't one that rests with the head coach, because not all them will be as controlling as Schmidt and some will happily go for the short term gain when their jobs are on the line. It's a decision that needs to be held by the Nuciforas in the set-up who are thinking further down the line.

Former Former · 18-02-2019 10:32am

troyzer wrote: »

We roll our eyes because the Welsh constantly moan without proposing solutions and blame everyone else despite being 100% responsible for their own failings.

This idea that if only they could get into the Premiership, everything would be golden, is fantasy.

The idea that the Welsh are a load of moaners is fundamentally wrong.

But, since people don't even read the articles they complain about, I can see why they might be misinformed.

troyzer · 18-02-2019 10:38am

Former Former wrote: »

troyzer wrote: »

We roll our eyes because the Welsh constantly moan without proposing solutions and blame everyone else despite being 100% responsible for their own failings.

This idea that if only they could get into the Premiership, everything would be golden, is fantasy.

The idea that the Welsh are a load of moaners is fundamentally wrong.

But, since people don't even read the articles they complain about, I can see why they might be misinformed.

I did read that article (before it was shared here) and it does seem to be somewhat more self critical than most. But there are legions of Welsh fans out there who parrot their English counterparts in decrying Ireland's supposed super salaries without a cap. As if Leinster are Toulon. They genuinely think that's why they keep getting battered and until they wake up and smell the coffee, things aren't going to better.

The reason why Welsh rugby is in a financial black hole is because the WRU are incompetent. It's as simple as that.

AbusesToilets · 18-02-2019 10:43am

Former Former wrote: »

The idea that the Welsh are a load of moaners is fundamentally wrong.

But, since people don't even read the articles they complain about, I can see why they might be misinformed.

A perusal of Gwlad would not be suppportive of that assertion

Former Former · 18-02-2019 10:46am

AbusesToilets wrote: »

A perusal of Gwlad would not be suppportive of that assertion

A perusal of boards.ie/rugby wouldn't endear the Irish to many people either.

thomond2006 · 18-02-2019 10:59am

Former Former wrote: »

A perusal of boards.ie/rugby wouldn't endear the Irish to many people either.

To be honest, I choose not to read as it's Wales Online. Outside of Simon Thomas who is very good, the site is mostly ragebait.

molloyjh · 18-02-2019 11:05am

troyzer wrote: »

I did read that article (before it was shared here) and it does seem to be somewhat more self critical than most. But there are legions of Welsh fans out there who parrot their English counterparts in decrying Ireland's supposed super salaries without a cap. As if Leinster are Toulon. They genuinely think that's why they keep getting battered and until they wake up and smell the coffee, things aren't going to better.

The reason why Welsh rugby is in a financial black hole is because the WRU are incompetent. It's as simple as that.

I don’t think it’s quite that straight forward really. The provinces have a massive financial advantages because the WRU haven’t managed that end well. But the influence of the clubs over there is huge and the resistance to the regions in some areas isn’t something the WRU could really do much about. The whole thing is a bit of a clusterf*** really.

But the idea that the league is a major issue is a massive stretch IMO. It’s another excuse is all it is. Sure they can’t remain competitive in the P14. If the competition were any tougher they’d be properly screwed. In fact one way to make the co petition tougher, and possibly force the hands Olin the IRFU to change their approach, is to have more competitive teams from Wales. Glasgow and Edinburgh are making a fist if it. Even Benetton are now too. Cheetahs could be a major player in the next few years if they can get the funding and players in place. If the Welsh could get 2 teams consistently conpetitive that would have a huge impact on the league. But that’s on them to sort out. Not everyone else.

molloyjh · 18-02-2019 11:06am

Former Former wrote: »

A perusal of boards.ie/rugby wouldn't endear the Irish to many people either.

Ah stop, it’s not anywhere near that bad here. Some of the provincial sites might be, but this place tends to be a lot better.

Guinness Pro14 Season 2018-2019

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