Nord Anglia - Is there such a demand in Ireland?

v638sg7k1a92bx · 11-01-2018 2:32pm #1

The school is due to open in September 2018. When I first heard of this I didn't think there was be such a demand for this type of school, are there that many people living short term in Ireland who are willing to send their kids to this school or are they depending on Irish people to send their kids here also.

Also, considering that the school is private and outside the scope of the dept education, will they be teaching the Leaving Cert and will they able to source enough teachers? I understand that the school is 100% private so there is no obligation to hire teaching council registered teachers but how many primary and secondary teachers are out there who are not registered with the teaching council, or do these schools hire from abroad?

Fann Linn · 11-01-2018 2:35pm

Gwen Low Sagebrush wrote: »

The school is due to open in September 2018. When I first heard of this I didn't think there was be such a demand for this type of school, are there that many people living short term in Ireland who are willing to send their kids to this school or are they depending on Irish people to send their kids here also.

Also, considering that the school is private and outside the scope of the dept education, will they be teaching the Leaving Cert and will they able to source enough teachers? I understand that the school is 100% private so there is no obligation to hire teaching council registered teachers but how many primary and secondary teachers are out there who are not registered with the teaching council, or do these schools hire from abroad?

€24k per annum. Be interesting to see the school roll.

cbreeze · 11-01-2018 2:42pm

A rep was on Sean O'Rourke this morning. It seems to be designed for the international market, with some Irish people intending on going abroad wanting to use it for their children in advance of a move. They will be teaching the international baccalaureate. The man was coy about how many students had signed up but he did say that there had been over 1000 unsolicited applications from teachers, but he was not prepared to say what the salary would be.

v638sg7k1a92bx · 11-01-2018 3:00pm

cbreeze wrote: »

A rep was on Sean O'Rourke this morning. It seems to be designed for the international market, with some Irish people intending on going abroad wanting to use it for their children in advance of a move. They will be teaching the international baccalaureate. The man was coy about how many students had signed up but he did say that there had been over 1000 unsolicited applications from teachers, but he was not prepared to say what the salary would be.

Also interesting that the socialist former Minister for Education Ruairi Quinn is appointed to the board of management. I wonder how he reconciles his socialist ideologies with his appointment to the most exclusive school in the country? http://www.nordangliaeducation.com/schools/dublin/international/our-people/school-advisory-board/ruairi-quinn

I'm curious about the numbers for this school, I know we have alot of migrant workers here but my understanding is that we don't have the type of executive roles that would be willing to pay those fees. AFAIK, those jobs have remained in London.

Also, the unsolicited applications could also be teachers who's only formal qualifications are the TOEFL, since the school is not within the scope of the Department of Education then they have no requirement to hire real teachers.

rainbowtrout · 11-01-2018 7:52pm

Well Clongowes charges €19,500 per year to attend and according to their website, there is a 10% premium on top of that if you have English as a second language, or if you enrol in fifth year.

So presumably there are people in the country that can afford those kind of fees. Whether there are enough Irish people willing to pay 24k for this new private school is another thing, but the Irish market is not their target market really.

I presume they wouldn't be setting up here unless they thought there was a market

ignorance is strength · 12-01-2018 8:12am

Clongowes (450 students) and Columba's certainly demonstrate that there are people in Ireland able to pay that much to educate their children, and a decent minority from the other private schools would also be able to. But it's also the case that it will be the most expensive day school in the country by a factor of three, and without the pedigree of those others.

As was said, the school seems expressly targeted at expats (and possibly, even more specifically, at short-stay expats) who have particular needs - mid term arrival, short notice enrollment, language supports, etc. I understand St Andrew's, which has a language centre for the purpose, is the traditional choice for embassy kids and the like. But it's still a big challenge for a child to enter a fully-formed year group with a shared national identity, and I'd expect the diversity and come-and-go nature of an international school to be more welcoming. And if you're a (rich) foreigner googling where to send your kid, do you choose Blackrock, Mount Anville, St Andrew's...or the one with INTERNATIONAL SCHOOL (pick me, pick me!) in its name?! I think another important factor in the business plan is that it's both a primary and secondary school. If you're willing and able, they'll happily take your money to educate your children from three years old to eighteen!

But what are anyone's thoughts on the school? It seems to me that the principal is trying to portray it as akin to one of the innovative charter schools that have been founded in America in recent times (about which there was a subtlety damning article in a recent New Yorker issue that might interest some) -- he said "you can't compare the school to any school you've got in Ireland currently" and that there are only two hundred schools "on the planet," no less, that will offer its curriculum. But in saying that he's disingenuously referring to the fact that only two hundred schools offer all three International Baccalaureate strands (primary, junior-high and "Diploma"). There's a good reason for this: not many schools offer both primary and secondary education. And even if not for that, who cares?! The continuity it provides is possibly a selling point for parents (probably insignificant, but how are parents to judge?), but it doesn't imply the educational excellence he claims: IB is well-regarded programme - the standard is up their with A Levels, despite students taking a leaving cert-load of subject, and the theory of knowledge component is commendable - but it's not substantively different from the Leaving Cert or other high school curriculums. More important are the teaching practices and the school ethos. And here, having moved into the premises within only the last few months, with there being no outdoor sports facilities or grounds and with a website that is vacuous, it seems deficient. (Also 20:1 teacher-pupil ratio according to an Independent article seems highly unimpressive.) I wonder is it just a for-profit enterprise filling a niche, without any educational ambition.

I hope no prospective parents come across this critique and are dissuaded by it, because it is just the early morning ramblings of someone who has scoured their website!

evolving_doors · 12-01-2018 4:16pm

They've 54 other schools around the world so they know the deal.
It would be interesting to see the package they offer.
Dunno what good Ruairi Quinn is to them apart from a bit of prestige.
Probably like the English language school that closed a few years ago which had Batt O' Keefe on the board.

2011abc · 12-01-2018 4:38pm

Disgrace ! Healthcare and education shouldn’t be privatized as is increasingly the case .Of course we can see the direction things are going with videos in the last week of a teacher being handcuffed and flung on the ground at a meeting and a patient being left outside in a hospital gown on a freezing night at a bus stop . Those 54 private secondary schools are out of six hundred and something in total in the country so not a negligible minority but there won’t be many teachers’ children attending them!Makes me angry when I see students with holidays or even dental braces I know I can’t afford for mine .With myself and my wife public servants I guess nowadays, as Pee Flynn said ,100k doesn’t go as far as you’d think .

2011abc · 12-01-2018 4:44pm

And as for that other ****....Seen in the bargain bin and left there !

Spanish Eyes · 12-01-2018 5:02pm

I may be wrong, but I think the draw is that wealthy short stayers here can place their children in this school, and then when they go to their next posting a similar Baccalaureate standard school will pick up where they left off.

Handy for those who move from place to place regularly I would have thought. But the fees! Maybe they are included in an expat placement package though.

evolving_doors · 12-01-2018 5:29pm

2011abc wrote: »

Disgrace ! Healthcare and education shouldn’t be privatized as is increasingly the case .Of course we can see the direction things are going with videos in the last week of a teacher being handcuffed and flung on the ground at a meeting and a patient being left outside in a hospital gown on a freezing night at a bus stop . Those 54 private secondary schools are out of six hundred and something in total in the country so not a negligible minority but there won’t be many teachers’ children attending them!Makes me angry when I see students with holidays or even dental braces I know I can’t afford for mine .With myself and my wife public servants I guess nowadays, as Pee Flynn said ,100k doesn’t go as far as you’d think .

Well no it's only one in Ireland. 54 is the global figure. Typically teachers kids in this schools get a significant fee reduction (if not free) in their package too!
In one sense it's a more holistic offering than the private 5th and 6th yr grind schools in Ireland.

r93kaey5p2izun · 12-01-2018 6:22pm

I say good luck to them. It sounds like an interesting set-up and I can see the specific attraction for those whose (very lucrative) work brings them to different places over the years. The IB sems like a solid programme. And there will always be a market for something exclusive and elite to ensure offspring network with the right contacts, something "different" or "innovative" for those who want to be seen as fashionable and putting their children at the cutting edge - whether there's any sound educational basis to it or not, which remains to be seen.

Its funding is 100% private so I'd see a lot less wrong with it than other fee-charging schools.

2011abc · 12-01-2018 6:35pm

evolving_doors wrote: »

Well no it's only one in Ireland. 54 is the global figure. Typically teachers kids in this schools get a significant fee reduction (if not free) in their package too!
In one sense it's a more holistic offering than the private 5th and 6th yr grind schools in Ireland.

I got mixed up but there are around 50 Irish private schools

Tom Dunne · 12-01-2018 8:10pm

If you think of the number of IT and Finance companies based in Dublin, I would say there is a market for such schools.

International moves would be very common for employees. Back in the day, I did more than one international move with a company, even at the mid-level, rent, car(s), school fees and the like were included in packages. It is actually quite difficult to get families to move, so companies have to make it as easy, and as lucrative as possible for employees.

betty2007 · 27-01-2019 1:23am

I think the school is designed for foreigners who just arrived and not be able to find an existing private school for their children due to a long waiting list for a good established private schools in ireland and religious background(some schools only accept if students is baptized etc like gonzaga, wesley) and also not many schools offer IB. as far as i know St Andrews offers IB and international kids often look for IB curriculum. I know Nord Anglia well as we are living abroad at the moment and my kids went to Nord Anglia school for a few years. I don't value too much about those big giant education business as it is hard to find holistic approach. it is all about how much money generating. Teachers quality is also a question mark. the teachers would be on three years contracts and move around to look for experience and travel.

betty2007 · 27-01-2019 1:26am

having said that, Irish private schools need to be modernized and make some changes. The idea of accepting pupils according to their religious background is outdated and language choices are also dull.

evolving_doors · 27-01-2019 3:07pm

betty2007 wrote: »

having said that, Irish private schools need to be modernized and make some changes. The idea of accepting pupils according to their religious background is outdated and language choices are also dull.

What are the 'exciting' languages then?

betty2007 · 03-02-2019 8:01pm

For example, Chinese. my kids learnt chinese here in Asia. Chinese is compulsory subject in some international schools.

tuisginideach · 03-02-2019 8:04pm

Chinese is available in many non-fee paying Dublin schools (and probably elsewhere - I only know of Dublin schools) - nothing to do with the schools being private or not.

evolving_doors · 04-02-2019 5:37pm

betty2007 wrote: »

For example, Chinese. my kids learnt chinese here in Asia. Chinese is compulsory subject in some international schools.

Learning Chinese is a bit ott. Anyone any way wealthy in China is learning English.

Nord Anglia - Is there such a demand in Ireland?

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