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2 routers on the one network problems

  • 17-02-2019 9:18pm
    #1
    kevincadd90
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭


    I have connected 2 routers to extend my network to an exterior building. I have done the usual steps. Reassigned the IP address of the second router to be 1.2 and the first to be 1.1. I have disabled dhcp on the 2nd router. Assigned different wifi channels at opposite ends of the channels for the 2 routers so they don't interfere and then put the Ethernet cable going from lan1 in the first router to lan1 in the 2nd. But my internet now drops constantly on both routers for split seconds. It doesn't really effect streaming but browsing pages can drop


Comments

  • #2
    ED E
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,169 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    The WAN port on the second router should be empty, is it?


  • #3
    kevincadd90
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭kevincadd90


    ED E wrote: »
    The WAN port on the second router should be empty, is it?

    It is yes.


  • #4
    scamalert
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,739 ✭✭✭scamalert


    did you turn off NAT on second router ?


  • #5
    kevincadd90
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭kevincadd90


    scamalert wrote: »
    did you turn off NAT on second router ?

    Hi I have a hg659 and can't seem to find the nat options


  • #6
    scamalert
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,739 ✭✭✭scamalert


    its been long since i dabbled in networking but just guessing as you mentioned two routers its possible both do nat translation, simple check is to tracert www.google.com on command line and check if it does it twice via both routers.


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  • #7
    scamalert
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,739 ✭✭✭scamalert


    any luck with routers,as now dont think double NAT was issue that could be causing such dropouts as its known to cause large interferences with streaming which you said worked fine, but it also causes issues with SSL certs which basically every site uses but imagine its something else. ED E seems to have better sense in that area.


  • #8
    kevincadd90
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭kevincadd90


    scamalert wrote: »
    any luck with routers,as now dont think double NAT was issue that could be causing such dropouts as its known to cause large interferences with streaming which you said worked fine, but it also causes issues with SSL certs which basically every site uses but imagine its something else. ED E seems to have better sense in that area.

    Hi no the routers worked fine. Yeah I can access the web fine and streaming is perfect. This area is now where my limited knowledge becomes zero so I'm just googling things and trying it. I timed it this morning before I left for work and internet was dropping every 14 seconds or so. But again it didn't really effect anything unless I had refreshed a page in the split second it was down in which case all I had to do was click refresh. I have read about a cross over cable which I'm willing to try but I don't want to go cutting up my cat6 after I've already assembled it


  • #9
    scamalert
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,739 ✭✭✭scamalert


    yeah its ruling out all possibilities crossover cable makes sense even thou most modern routers have auto sensing to correct that but with provider routers you get little in terms of configuration and capabilities so that might be your answer, why packets get dropped, so often. maybe get couple feet and bring two together instead of splicing one you have.


  • #10
    kevincadd90
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭kevincadd90


    scamalert wrote: »
    yeah its ruling out all possibilities crossover cable makes sense even thou most modern routers have auto sensing to correct that but with provider routers you get little in terms of configuration and capabilities so that might be your answer, why packets get dropped, so often. maybe get couple feet and bring two together instead of splicing one you have.

    So just thinking, again my knowledge of this stuff is very limited, but I've named the 2 ssids differently, for example main router would be eir5g and my extended one is kevin5g different passwords. Would there be a conflict there? I don't see how it would but this seems to be the only place I veered from tutorials. I will try it this evening but just looking for your opinion before I do


  • #11
    kevincadd90
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭kevincadd90


    kevincadd90 wrote: »
    So just thinking, again my knowledge of this stuff is very limited, but I've named the 2 ssids differently, for example main router would be eir5g and my extended one is kevin5g different passwords. Would there be a conflict there? I don't see how it would but this seems to be the only place I veered from tutorials. I will try it this evening but just looking for your opinion before I do

    So I changed the names to the same thinking that the mobile device would be struggling to choose between the stronger signal but it hasn't worked again the signal drops for split seconds. Really haven't a clue now


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  • #12
    ED E
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,169 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    The fact that the stutter is brief makes me think either DNS or both are attempting PPPoE dials.

    Check if the internet light on the main unit flickers red when it stutters.


  • #13
    kevincadd90
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭kevincadd90


    ED E wrote: »
    The fact that the stutter is brief makes me think either DNS or both are attempting PPPoE dials.

    Check if the internet light on the main unit flickers red when it stutters.

    No it doesn't flicker but is there any settings I could look for in relation to the DNS and PPPoE? I'm thinking the stutter is so quick it doesn't register on the main unit


  • #14
    ED E
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,169 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    Check the logs to see if there are regular PPPoE disconnects.


  • #15
    kevincadd90
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭kevincadd90


    ED E wrote: »
    Check the logs to see if there are regular PPPoE disconnects.

    I was searching the logs there and can't see any instance of PPPoE :S


  • #16
    worded
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,608 ✭✭✭worded


    The second router is effectively an access point

    First router
    E.g
    192.168.1.1

    Second router
    Make it static at 192.168.1.100

    Disabled dhcp

    He goal is to be able to go to IP address of .100 route
    Different SSIDs is a good idea to test

    Sometimes you are better off getting an access point or a router that can be set to accesspoint rather than expecting it to work as one

    As a matter of interest is the diff building on the same elec loop?
    If yes - you can use power line adapters


  • #17
    Xterminator
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,758 ✭✭✭Xterminator


    the second router should be in passthrough mode.

    https://support.bluos.net/hc/en-us/articles/360000220927-Can-I-connect-two-routers-to-the-same-network-with-the-same-network-name-

    have a peek at that.


  • #18
    durtybit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 384 ✭✭durtybit


    Make sure the SSID and passwords are the same. Might not hurt to use a WiFi analyser app on your phone to see if any other networks are causing interference (outside of your own)


  • #19
    kevincadd90
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭kevincadd90


    durtybit wrote: »
    Make sure the SSID and passwords are the same. Might not hurt to use a WiFi analyser app on your phone to see if any other networks are causing interference (outside of your own)

    So I have renamed the ssid and passwords to be the same made sure the channels are on opposite ends of the spectrum and I have had the wifi analyser from the start to check the networks and everything is clear. No joy.
    The first router is the worst where the cuts are pretty constant. You can really notice it on an app like Instagram where it is constantly updated and refreshing.
    I haven't had a chance to check for a need for cross over cable but I'll get doing this at the weekend. I have been told though that it's really unlikely that it's needed as modern routers have a system built in.
    This one is really a head scratcher.


  • #20
    tsue921i8wljb3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,017 ✭✭✭tsue921i8wljb3


    kevincadd90 wrote: »
    So I have renamed the ssid and passwords to be the same made sure the channels are on opposite ends of the spectrum and I have had the wifi analyser from the start to check the networks and everything is clear. No joy.
    The first router is the worst where the cuts are pretty constant. You can really notice it on an app like Instagram where it is constantly updated and refreshing.
    I haven't had a chance to check for a need for cross over cable but I'll get doing this at the weekend. I have been told though that it's really unlikely that it's needed as modern routers have a system built in.
    This one is really a head scratcher.

    Who is your ISP?
    What package and speed are you subscribed to?
    Does the problem go away if you only have the main router connected?
    Does the issue occur on Ethernet cabled connections?
    If only on WiFi are both Android and iOS affected?
    What are the models of the two routers involved?


  • #21
    ED E
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,169 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    Ignore the cable suggestion. MDIX sorts that and it would either work or not.


    He's most likely Vodafone Navi if he's calling the 659 by its normal name.


    (Windows) Try a constant ping, that rules DNS in/out 
    ping 8.8.8.8 -t

    If it drops regularly you'll see it as no response.


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  • #22
    kevincadd90
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭kevincadd90


    Jazmine Round Locket wrote: »
    Who is your ISP?
    What package and speed are you subscribed to?
    Does the problem go away if you only have the main router connected?
    Does the issue occur on Ethernet cabled connections?
    If only on WiFi are both Android and iOS affected?
    What are the models of the two routers involved?

    ISP is eir , package is the efibre 1000, the problem is not there when the main is connected on it's own (I've had it on it's own now for about 10mins and no disconnect)
    Router 1 is hg659b by eir they call it f2000 I think
    Router 2 is hg659 by Vodafone.
    Both Android and iOS is effected however iOS cannot connect to the 5g at all but can connect to the 2.4g


  • #23
    kevincadd90
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭kevincadd90


    ED E wrote: »
    Ignore the cable suggestion. MDIX sorts that and it would either work or not.


    He's most likely Vodafone Navi if he's calling the 659 by its normal name.


    (Windows) Try a constant ping, that rules DNS in/out 
    ping 8.8.8.8 -t

    If it drops regularly you'll see it as no response.

    Cheers I'll try that in a few mins too. I've had the main router on it's own now for a good few mins and no sign of dropping.


  • #24
    ED E
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,169 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    The other thing I forgot to mention is you need to ensure DHCP is off for v4 and v6. I think they may be on separate pages of the interface.


  • #25
    tsue921i8wljb3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,017 ✭✭✭tsue921i8wljb3


    kevincadd90 wrote: »
    ISP is eir , package is the efibre 1000, the problem is not there when the main is connected on it's own (I've had it on it's own now for about 10mins and no disconnect)
    Router 1 is hg659b by eir they call it f2000 I think
    Router 2 is hg659 by Vodafone.
    Both Android and iOS is effected however iOS cannot connect to the 5g at all but can connect to the 2.4g

    Follow this guide and change the options on the Vodafone hg659 only noting especially the DHCP6 and RA settings. After you've done this reboot everything including client devices and see if it's rectified.

    https://editorsean.com/articles/configure-unused-eir-f2000-router-wi-fi-access-point/

    If not we'll then look at disabling IPv6 on the F2000.


  • #26
    kevincadd90
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭kevincadd90


    ED E wrote: »
    The other thing I forgot to mention is you need to ensure DHCP is off for v4 and v6. I think they may be on separate pages of the interface.

    Oh? On the 1st router also?


  • #27
    tsue921i8wljb3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,017 ✭✭✭tsue921i8wljb3


    kevincadd90 wrote: »
    Oh? On the 1st router also?

    No. Follow the guide I posted on the router used as access point.


  • #28
    ED E
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,169 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    kevincadd90 wrote: »
    Oh? On the 1st router also?

    That'd be optional. It being off on the 2nd router is the main thing otherwise clients can ask it to route packets for them which it then will drop.


  • #29
    TheChizler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,474 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    I'd be trying to get it stable on two different SSIDs first before trying to merge them. Switching isn't always smooth between them so that would be another unknown introduced. Plus if they're separate you (easily) know exactly which one you're connected to when the problem occurs.


  • #30
    kevincadd90
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭kevincadd90


    Jazmine Round Locket wrote: »
    No. Follow the guide I posted on the router used as access point.

    So I got to have a look at the router and this walkthrough and I had it set up exactly the same , still no luck


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  • #31
    kevincadd90
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭kevincadd90


    kevincadd90 wrote: »
    So I got to have a look at the router and this walkthrough and I had it set up exactly the same , still no luck

    Going to try disable ipv6 on f2000


  • #32
    my3cents
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,764 ✭✭✭my3cents


    kevincadd90 wrote: »
    So I got to have a look at the router and this walkthrough and I had it set up exactly the same , still no luck

    Humor me and check one thing. Are the subnet masks both the same 255.255.255.0?

    I'm asking because in a hurry once I set up something similar to your set up and had one subnet mask as 255.255.0.0 it worked but there were all sorts of annoying problems that were finally sorted when I got the subnet right.


  • #33
    tsue921i8wljb3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,017 ✭✭✭tsue921i8wljb3


    kevincadd90 wrote: »
    Going to try disable ipv6 on f2000

    Guide here. Scroll down to "How to turn off IPv6 on the Eir F2000"

    https://editorsean.com/articles/fix-slow-eir-f2000-wi-fi/

    You've a lot going on. I'd disable the 5GHz on both routers. Get it working on 2.4 then turn back on 5.


  • #34
    kevincadd90
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭kevincadd90


    kevincadd90 wrote: »
    Going to try disable ipv6 on f2000

    Main router f2000 is still cutting in and out. 2nd router hg659 appears more stable , iOS can now connect to 5g with the ipv6 turned off on the f2000.


  • #35
    tsue921i8wljb3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,017 ✭✭✭tsue921i8wljb3


    kevincadd90 wrote: »
    Main router f2000 is still cutting in and out. 2nd router hg659 appears more stable , iOS can now connect to 5g with the ipv6 turned off on the f2000.

    What do you mean by "cutting in and out"?


  • #36
    kevincadd90
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭kevincadd90


    my3cents wrote: »
    Humor me and check one thing. Are the subnet masks both the same 255.255.255.0?

    I'm asking because in a hurry once I set up something similar to your set up and had one subnet mask as 255.255.0.0 it worked but there were all sorts of annoying problems that were finally sorted when I got the subnet right.

    Hi yeah subnet masks are both 255.255.255.0


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  • #37
    kevincadd90
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭kevincadd90


    Jazmine Round Locket wrote: »
    What do you mean by "cutting in and out"?

    Sorry I mean wifi symbol turning on and off and not being able to connect to webpage . Again only in short bursts.


  • #38
    KERSPLAT!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,152 ✭✭✭✭KERSPLAT!


    Would it not be best to sort out the connection and get it stable before moving to WiFi? A general question, not directed at the OP.

    Connect to the second access point via Ethernet and ping out, see what the results are and whether you drop off or not


  • #39
    tsue921i8wljb3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,017 ✭✭✭tsue921i8wljb3


    kevincadd90 wrote: »
    Sorry I mean wifi symbol turning on and off and not being able to connect to webpage . Again only in short bursts.

    What are the WiFi settings for the eir F2000 under Home Network > Wireless Settings > Advanced settings

    Post both sets for 2.4 and 5GHz.


  • #40
    kevincadd90
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭kevincadd90


    Jazmine Round Locket wrote: »
    What are the WiFi settings for the eir F2000 under Home Network > Wireless Settings > Advanced settings

    Post both sets for 2.4 and 5GHz.

    I have now disabled ipv6 properly meaning I followed the tutorial. The cmd returned exactly as the tutorial said meaning there is a ipv6 issue


  • #41
    tsue921i8wljb3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,017 ✭✭✭tsue921i8wljb3


    kevincadd90 wrote: »
    I have now disabled ipv6 on f2000 properly. Meaning I followed the tutorial you posted. It returned exactly as the tutorial said meaning there was an issue with ipv6

    But the issue is still there after disabling IPv6? Or has it gone?


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  • #42
    kevincadd90
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭kevincadd90


    Jazmine Round Locket wrote: »
    But the issue is still there after disabling IPv6? Or has it gone?

    Going to check main house now but on hg659 no issue fingers crossed


  • #43
    tsue921i8wljb3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,017 ✭✭✭tsue921i8wljb3


    Just a point of note but I had issues with devices not seeing high 5GHz channels (yours is at 128). Also there is no point having 80MHz channels as the router can't do more than 300Mb on WiFi.

    I'd use 20/40MHz width and channel numbers 36 and 44 for 5GHz on the respective routers assuming no interference from other networks.


  • #44
    kevincadd90
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭kevincadd90


    Jazmine Round Locket wrote: »
    Just a point of note but I had issues with devices not seeing high 5GHz channels (yours is at 128). Also there is no point having 80MHz channels as the router can't do more than 300Mb on WiFi.

    I'd use 40MHz width and channel numbers 36 and 40 for 5GHz on the respective routers assuming no interference from other networks.

    Ok I've been in the main house about 10mins now and not one drop out in the wifi whereas before would have been at least 30 drops. I will keep an eye on this over the next few days but I think you've solved it for me. Thanks for your help and patience! I will do that with the 40mhz as I noticed my now TV used to pick up the 5g and now it doesnt. Again thank you for your help!


  • #45
    TheChizler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,474 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    my3cents wrote: »
    Humor me and check one thing. Are the subnet masks both the same 255.255.255.0?

    I'm asking because in a hurry once I set up something similar to your set up and had one subnet mask as 255.255.0.0 it worked but there were all sorts of annoying problems that were finally sorted when I got the subnet right.
    Won't make a difference unfortunately, you're essentially just using the second router as a switch, you're only using IP for accessing the admin page.


  • #46
    tsue921i8wljb3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,017 ✭✭✭tsue921i8wljb3


    kevincadd90 wrote: »
    Ok I've been in the main house about 10mins now and not one drop out in the wifi whereas before would have been at least 30 drops. I will keep an eye on this over the next few days but I think you've solved it for me. Thanks for your help and patience! I will do that with the 40mhz as I noticed my now TV used to pick up the 5g and now it doesnt. Again thank you for your help!

    No problem! Glad to help.


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