Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XI (The Finals Countdown)

irishbucsfan · 01-01-2021 1:03pm

https://twitter.com/leinsterrugby/status/1344976031095128065?s=20

arsebiscuits1 · 01-01-2021 1:10pm

Not a bad looking squad.

Excellent pack to be able to call on. Extremely exciting backrow.

errlloyd · 01-01-2021 1:11pm

I'm guessing that Sexton is our only available ten, which if true is quite unfortunate.

01-01-2021 1:40pm

Who's the sub 10?

sydthebeat · 01-01-2021 1:45pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Who's the sub 10?

Jimmy o brien can fill in

arsebiscuits1 · 01-01-2021 1:49pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

Jimmy o brien can fill in

Jimmy hasn't put a foot wrong all year that I'd fully back him to have a stormer at 10 if needs be.

Luke has been pictured practising goal kicking before. I wonder if he's the backup kicker.

Or can O'Rielly or Smith kick?

sydthebeat · 01-01-2021 1:57pm

The two byrnes being missing makes sense now

01-01-2021 2:06pm

I'm too hungover to read let alone think but I imagine that's the first time a bunch of these lads have started in the same team as Sexton?

Dwarf.Shortage · 01-01-2021 2:20pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm too hungover to read let alone think but I imagine that's the first time a bunch of these lads have started in the same team as Sexton?

EVERYONE IS OUT TO GET YOU

arsebiscuits1 · 01-01-2021 2:23pm

Leinster on insta saying Frawley was due to start and picked up an injury late in the week.

Luke was always due to be captain so will continue in this role for the game despite Sexton playing

01-01-2021 2:25pm

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

EVERYONE IS OUT TO GET YOU

01-01-2021 3:36pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

Jimmy o brien can fill in

What can this guy not do?

Hype710 · 01-01-2021 3:59pm

Doesn’t look like Hawkshaw is too highly rated not to be at least included amongst the replacements which is unfortunate. Was pictured training during the week.

bayern · 01-01-2021 4:09pm

Hype710 wrote: »

Doesn’t look like Hawkshaw is too highly rated not to be at least included amongst the replacements which is unfortunate. Was pictured training during the week.

His performance at 10 against munster a left a bit to be desired.

Unsurprising given how little he has played there in the past 2 years.

foxyladyxx · 01-01-2021 4:10pm

Hype710 wrote: »

Doesn’t look like Hawkshaw is too highly rated not to be at least included amongst the replacements which is unfortunate. Was pictured training during the week.

Apparently Turner is rated more highly because of his reading of the game and his leadership qualities. To be honest I don't see that myself. Perhaps it is something seen in training.

He is tipped to be another Ringrose. I know he is 100% committed and Leo rates
him but to me he is too small. If he was taller he might stand out more. JMO

Dubinusa · 01-01-2021 4:23pm

I would guess that this is the most stretched Leinster have been in years for player availability.
I love seeing young lads capped. But. I wonder if covid is disrupting the squad. At least to the point that 1st year academy lads are the only option.
As far as Hawkshaw goes, I think he could be a really good player, I may be wrong, but he looked the full package at u20 level.
However, this teamsheet for tomorrow is probably one that nobody envisioned. Sexton included is something I didn't expect.
I hope next week te side has more of a full strength look to it.

Clegg · 01-01-2021 4:27pm

We've gone with the 6/2 split an awful lot since rugby returned. Suppose we've an abundance of very talented forwards so may as well use them. The injury troubles in the backs makes that decision easier too.

Glad to see Conan back as well. He has his work cut out for him to regain a starting place in Leinsters strongest 15. We played Doris and he in the same backrow for a while but things have changed during his absence. Doris is now Ireland's first choice number 8 and Ruddock is tearing up trees at blindside.

typhoony · 01-01-2021 4:36pm

not surprised to see Andrew Smith get a chance this early, he was the one i took the most notice of during the Ireland u20's games, crucially he has the ability to create time and space.

foxyladyxx · 01-01-2021 5:00pm

Dubinusa wrote: »

I would guess that this is the most stretched Leinster have been in years for player availability.
I love seeing young lads capped. But. I wonder if covid is disrupting the squad. At least to the point that 1st year academy lads are the only option.
As far as Hawkshaw goes, I think he could be a really good player, I may be wrong, but he looked the full package at u20 level.
However, this teamsheet for tomorrow is probably one that nobody envisioned. Sexton included is something I didn't expect.
I hope next week te side has more of a full strength look to it.

I was worried when I saw the teamsheet. Connacht are a good side. This is a tough ask of these young guys. . I hope they can rise to the challenge.

I am also in favour of bringing in the new talent but this........

arsebiscuits1 · 01-01-2021 5:42pm

foxyladyxx wrote: »

Apparently Turner is rated more highly because of his reading of the game and his leadership qualities. To be honest I don't see that myself. Perhaps it is something seen in training.

He is tipped to be another Ringrose. I know he is 100% committed and Leo rates
him but to me he is too small. If he was taller he might stand out more. JMO

Who has tipped him to be another ringrose?

bayern · 01-01-2021 5:45pm

typhoony wrote: »

not surprised to see Andrew Smith get a chance this early, he was the one i took the most notice of during the Ireland u20's games, crucially he has the ability to create time and space.

he was poor against Munster A.

bayern · 01-01-2021 5:46pm

foxyladyxx wrote: »

Apparently Turner is rated more highly because of his reading of the game and his leadership qualities. To be honest I don't see that myself. Perhaps it is something seen in training.

He is tipped to be another Ringrose. I know he is 100% committed and Leo rates
him but to me he is too small. If he was taller he might stand out more. JMO

Turner has never been that highly rated.

FrannoFan · 02-01-2021 12:08am

bayern wrote: »

Turner has never been that highly rated.

He's a good tidy player but at 5'8 hard to see how survives in the midfield

Stout Warrior · 02-01-2021 12:19am

foxyladyxx wrote: »

Apparently Turner is rated more highly because of his reading of the game and his leadership qualities. To be honest I don't see that myself. Perhaps it is something seen in training.

He is tipped to be another Ringrose. I know he is 100% committed and Leo rates
him but to me he is too small. If he was taller he might stand out more. JMO

I don’t think he should be written off for his height. He is stocky and well built and has good explosiveness. What height was Gordon Darcy or Jason Robinson or even Cheslin Kolbe. They all prosper in a game dominated by bigger men.

How tall is Hawkshaw? Cant be much taller than Turner. Are people writing him off?

FrannoFan · 02-01-2021 12:23pm

Stout Warrior wrote: »

I don’t think he should be written off for his height. He is stocky and well built and has good explosiveness. What height was Gordon Darcy or Jason Robinson or even Cheslin Kolbe. They all prosper in a game dominated by bigger men.

How tall is Hawkshaw? Cant be much taller than Turner. Are people writing him off?

Two of your examples have retired so from a different era

Darcy around 5'10 and the other two are back three players

Not many pro midfielders 5'8
Hawkshaw seems to be more a 10 and he's around 5'11

Not writing him off for his height but he would be an outlier for his position at that size. Rugby more than ever a collision sport.

bayern · 02-01-2021 12:33pm

Stout Warrior wrote: »

I don’t think he should be written off for his height. He is stocky and well built and has good explosiveness. What height was Gordon Darcy or Jason Robinson or even Cheslin Kolbe. They all prosper in a game dominated by bigger men.

How tall is Hawkshaw? Cant be much taller than Turner. Are people writing him off?

Turner not as quick/explosive or frankly as good at rugby as any of the players you listed.

arsebiscuits1 · 02-01-2021 12:35pm

While I'm not sold on turner being the answer I think his height could be a benefit to him.

In the way the high tackle laws are now i can see him getting a lot of change from his carries as opponents have to stoop that much lower to actually get a hold of him.

He's a technically proficient player with a sound tackle technique. He's also incredibly strong and stocky.

It's far too easy to just say "oh he's too small" but he's heavy for his height, has a low center of gravity, is well capable in a footrace and has a good all around skill set. He can use all of these to make a point of difference and actually excel in contact.

But let's caveat this by saying I'd still like to get a proper look at him

Stout Warrior · 02-01-2021 12:52pm

FrannoFan wrote: »

Two of your examples have retired so from a different era

Darcy around 5'10 and the other two are back three players

Not many pro midfielders 5'8
Hawkshaw seems to be more a 10 and he's around 5'11

Not writing him off for his height but he would be an outlier for his position at that size. Rugby more than ever a collision sport.

All that said I haven’t seen him be dominated physically in his showings so far for Leinster in fact I have seen him dominate the contact when he has played. Albeit against not so great teams. I take your point about midfielders needing to be a minimum height in the professional game but there are examples of smaller men being able to thrive in the modern game at the highest levels.

Clegg · 02-01-2021 7:32pm

Ulster are really revving up now. They're a better side this season than last. Leinster under a lot of pressure now to win their interpros against Conn and Munster. With there being no playoffs this season, the Ulster game looks like the pool decider.

bayern · 02-01-2021 7:44pm

Clarkson and Josh Murphy out for leinster.

Hawkshaw and Greg Mcgrath on bench.

Clegg · 02-01-2021 10:31pm

That first half was probably the worst 40 minutes of rugby I've seen from Leinster against a side that isn't Saracens. Obviously the backline was a mess once Sexton went off, but the forwards were a bigger problem.

I'm more encouraged by the second half performance. Much greater intensity from the pack, but accuracy remained a problem. Ryan Baird is a special talent and Leavy put in another good display.

We've a problem now that all our senior 10's are injured. Our depth across many positions is a tremendous advantage, bit it's useless when none are available

02-01-2021 10:32pm

Are the Byrnes injured or could it be something else that keeps people out of games during a global pandemic?

lawrencesummers · 02-01-2021 10:37pm

Hawkshaw looks a decent rugby player. Very much a utility type player, he has the strength and directness of a 12, the pace of a winger and the kicking game of a 10.

But in a bad way he looks a jack of all trades and a master of none. Be interesting to see how he plays 80 minutes in his preferred position at this level.

Clegg · 02-01-2021 10:38pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Are the Byrnes injured or could it be something else that keeps people out of games during a global pandemic?

Wouldn't want to speculate on that. Harry Byrne was definitely injured as of a few weeks ago however.

lawrencesummers · 02-01-2021 10:38pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Are the Byrnes injured or could it be something else that keeps people out of games during a global pandemic?

Is it reading to much into it to think that’s why both are missing and sexton started?

If it is hopefully it’s precautionary not necessary.

Uriel. · 02-01-2021 10:40pm

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Is it reading to much into it to think that’s why both are missing and sexton started?

If it is hopefully it’s precautionary not necessary.

I'd say we should be avoiding speculating on a person's personal health

Clegg · 02-01-2021 10:55pm

Hard to speculate next week's team. Lots of absentees currently. Backline will hopefully be a lot stronger.

arsebiscuits1 · 02-01-2021 11:02pm

Disappointed after that.

But can't really say I'm surprised. We faced a lot of disruption in the week leading up to the game, disruption in the warm up and then disruption in the game itself.

Full credit to Connacht who were borderline demonic in their determination to win this game. They can take a lot from it.

I think we responded to each set back about as well as we could have in the extremely trying circumstances.

Conor Morris made reference to the face that Leinster could say that missing the players affected it but it's the same for all the provinces. This is quite wide of the mark though. No province has had the disruptions that Leinster had.

Even assuming we played none of our internationals, we could have expected to play Harry Byrne, Ciaran Frawley, Tommy O'Brien, Conor O'Brien, Adam Byrne if we had a full deck to choose from. That's essentially an entire backline who are the go to men when the internationals are away.

Playing our 6th choice 10 for a chunk of that game who wasn't due to be in until the last minute will have an effect. This 6th choice 10 had to replace our (apparently) 5th choice 10 who initially had to fill in 13 due to player shortage there as they are normally a fullback. Something has gotta give.

Shout out to Greg McGrath. 2 solid scrums in a game he wasn't supposed to play in. Great story for him and the AIL pathway. Would like to see him get a few more chances.

The pack by and large were quite good. Leavy, Baird and Penny were all good. As were Dooley and Bent. Strong stubborn carrying and tackling. Far from their best outing of the season.

Backline was unfortunately a total **** show. Luke was head and shoulders the pick of the litter and he didn't even play that well.

Back 3 were just flat out bad. Completely at sea with their positioning and Carty made them pay. O'Reilly didn't kick from hand once. He's a fullback. Disappointing debut from him. Smith also showed inexperience with his positioning at times too.

Kearney was the senior man in that backline. In the circumstances he should be standing up and taking ball on. I feel he was just too quiet. I can't help but feel that someone like James Lowe would have really taken a lot on if he were in Dave's place

Onwards and upwards anyway. They will definitely learn from this and hopefully harness the disappointing into a positive performance against Ulster next week which is looking like the biggest game of the season.

molloyjh · 02-01-2021 11:16pm

When you look at who we were missing before the game its completely understandable...

Healy
Kelleher
Furlong, Porter, Abdaladze, Clarkson
Fardy, Ryan
Ruddock, Doris, VDF, Murphy, Deegan

JGP
Ross Byrne, Harry Byrne
Henshaw, Frawley, COB
Ringrose, TOB
Lowe, Larmour, Keenan, Kelleher, Adam Byrne, Silvester

And then to lose Penny, Sexton, ROL and JOB during the game. Thats over 30 players in total. Sure we have depth, but thats almost a full senior squad of players. No club has that much depth. Hopefully we get a couple of injured players back as well as a bunch of internationals. But we've already seen the disruption bringing the latter in has caused. We need them to be on the ball next week.

lawrencesummers · 02-01-2021 11:20pm

Uriel. wrote: »

I'd say we should be avoiding speculating on a person's personal health

Who is speculating? I certainly wasn’t.

Morathi · 02-01-2021 11:33pm

molloyjh wrote: »

When you look at who we were missing before the game its completely understandable...

Healy
Kelleher
Furlong, Porter, Abdaladze, Clarkson
Fardy, Ryan
Ruddock, Doris, VDF, Murphy, Deegan

JGP
Ross Byrne, Harry Byrne
Henshaw, Frawley, COB
Ringrose, TOB
Lowe, Larmour, Keenan, Kelleher, Adam Byrne, Silvester

And then to lose Penny, Sexton, ROL and JOB during the game. Thats over 30 players in total. Sure we have depth, but thats almost a full senior squad of players. No club has that much depth. Hopefully we get a couple of injured players back as well as a bunch of internationals. But we've already seen the disruption bringing the latter in has caused. We need them to be on the ball next week.

And but for a tight call on crossing (correct though imo), we would have been on a BP and within 4 points with 15 mins to go.

To be honest, all things considered, not a disaster at all.

Former Former Former · 02-01-2021 11:39pm

In the bigger scheme of things, this was a disappointing night but that's it, it doesn't mean much for next week or beyond.

molloyjh · 02-01-2021 11:46pm

In some ways it may be an important lesson for some lads who have been able to coast along without much in the way of adversity on the pitch until now. Not their fault at all, but things have been pretty easy for them.

Dubinusa · 03-01-2021 1:21am

Not surprising given the fact that a couple of 1st year academy lads started.
No idea who coaches the line outs, but he should be canned. We're 3 months back to playing and nobody can call, run or throw into a line out.
There's something about Leinster this year. Even at full strength we don't look fluid and cohesive. I have noticed a lesser standard all around this year. Anyone else?
I think we will fall short in Europe this year. I just think we are lacking something. I can't put it in proper words, but we aren't as good as we have been over the last couple of years.
Not commenting solely on today's result, it's just that I think we're a little stale and the chemistry seems off.
I thought today could have been a loss. In a way, it could be a blessing.
I reckon the injuries have been disastrous and I think we probably won't see a full primed side for a while. But, even when full strength, I think we are beatable.

sydthebeat · 03-01-2021 1:31am

Surely we have to go as strong as humanly possible for next weekend?
Its 5 points or nothing

arsebiscuits1 · 03-01-2021 1:52am

sydthebeat wrote: »

Surely we have to go as strong as humanly possible for next weekend?
Its 5 points or nothing

The big guns will have had 3 weeks off and Europe will be the game after. I don't think the plan was ever for them to come into that game cold.

I imagine fitness and Covid status permitting were looking at:

Healy Kelleher Porter
Baird Ryan
3 back rows
JGP Byrne
Frawley Henshaw
Kearney Jimmy Keenan

Might be a bit hopeful on Jimmy. Didn't see why he got pulled ashore. Might see Kelleher (Cian) involved.

FrannoFan · 03-01-2021 10:48am

Morathi wrote: »

And but for a tight call on crossing (correct though imo), we would have been on a BP and within 4 points with 15 mins to go.

To be honest, all things considered, not a disaster at all.

Only a disaster from the perspective that it's top spot or gone.
We may not get to play covid postponed games and then see what ways they are adjudicated.

03-01-2021 10:55am

Leinster (& Ireland) have struggled with rush defences in last 2/3 seasons. Never really trying to do anything different in the face of them.

Saracens and England obviously the two best examples, but Connacht's pressure in defence last night had the same level of accuracy and ferocity and we get absolutely stuck on the back foot by it.

With either Byrne at 10 I feel we have good tools available to try and put manners on a defence, but I think Sexton's game really really struggles vs that type of pressure.

Where is the space on the pitch and why do we keep aiming for the ball to arrive in the 13 channel at the exact moment the rush defence does?

pickarooney · 03-01-2021 11:07am

Have you not watched Ross Byrne against a rush defence? He's utterly at sea

FrannoFan · 03-01-2021 12:39pm

Dubinusa wrote: »

Not surprising given the fact that a couple of 1st year academy lads started.
No idea who coaches the line outs, but he should be canned. We're 3 months back to playing and nobody can call, run or throw into a line out.
There's something about Leinster this year. Even at full strength we don't look fluid and cohesive. I have noticed a lesser standard all around this year. Anyone else?
I think we will fall short in Europe this year. I just think we are lacking something. I can't put it in proper words, but we aren't as good as we have been over the last couple of years.
Not commenting solely on today's result, it's just that I think we're a little stale and the chemistry seems off.
I thought today could have been a loss. In a way, it could be a blessing.
I reckon the injuries have been disastrous and I think we probably won't see a full primed side for a while. But, even when full strength, I think we are beatable.

Agree we will fall short in Europe this year. More so because we have a totally inept Line-out. I think a lot of teams struggling for cohesion this year but the same way we struggled against saracens because of a lack of a scrum we will lack a platform with our Line-out the way it is. Even against northampton/Montpelier we resorted to ball at 1 to a non lifted player just to get the ball back. That won't do against Exeter/racing

Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XI (The Finals Countdown)

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