Aston Villa Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2019/2020

CSF · 14-02-2017 11:18pm

LeBash wrote: »

CSF wrote: »

You've seen who is managing Newcastle yeah?

In fairness that is a little different. He took them down albeit close to the end. I'm betting he wouldn't have joined after they were relegated.

Usually these things are decided primarily by the financial package on offer. When teams in Russia are paying big money, good managers go there, now it's China. We're after spending millions on players when where we really need to do it is shooting out of our league in attracting a manager. Did anyone feel we were shooting out of our league when Bruce was appointed?

artanevilla · 14-02-2017 11:20pm

I don't think a change of manager will change anything. I'm completely out of ideas.

CSF · 14-02-2017 11:22pm

artanevilla wrote: »

I don't think a change of manager will change anything. I'm completely out of ideas.

Are you happy with the teams Bruce is putting out? If not, then a new manager could probably change that for a start.

Raven Runner · 14-02-2017 11:24pm

artanevilla wrote: »

I don't think a change of manager will change anything. I'm completely out of ideas.

It's not going happen but would be great if players were paid on performances and quality and not guaranteed money

artanevilla · 14-02-2017 11:25pm

CSF wrote: »

Are you happy with the teams Bruce is putting out? If not, then a new manager could probably change that for a start.

Sherwood, Garde, DiMatteo and Bruce have all put out different teams, a new manager will put out a different team from Bruce, but there's nobody taking responsibility on the pitch.

It's 11 players sleepwalking.

LeBash · 14-02-2017 11:25pm

CSF wrote: »

Are you happy with the teams Bruce is putting out? If not, then a new manager could probably change that for a start.

I think we need Jedinak back to see what team he actually wants to put on the park. Still think he needs to go but clearly Jedinak is a key part of his thinking.

CSF · 14-02-2017 11:28pm

artanevilla wrote: »

CSF wrote: »

Are you happy with the teams Bruce is putting out? If not, then a new manager could probably change that for a start.

Sherwood, Garde, DiMatteo and Bruce have all put out different teams, a new manager will put out a different team from Bruce, but there's nobody taking responsibility on the pitch.

It's 11 players sleepwalking.

It's not a top list of managers we're discussing there. I believe the likes of Lansbury, Hourihane, Adomah and Kodjia could be turned into winners by a winner very quickly. Unless we believe in curses that is.

JPA · 14-02-2017 11:29pm

LeBash wrote: »

I think we need Jedinak back to see what team he actually wants to put on the park. Still think he needs to go but clearly Jedinak is a key part of his thinking.

Well a defensive midfielder. And yet we now only have one in the squad.

CSF · 14-02-2017 11:51pm

Most depressing is I have everything booked including tickets for the Derby game on the 25th.

Genuinely do not want to go if he is still in charge. Sick of being angry all the time.

Patser · 14-02-2017 11:58pm

We need you there CSF, you've been our lucky charm this season.

CSF · 15-02-2017 12:05am

You're not wrong there. I'm 4 from 4 this season. We've won 2 of the other 11 home games.

With that said, there is nothing saving us now. The rot has set in and only a change can fix things now.

Panrich · 15-02-2017 12:56am

Bruce's faith in a rookie goalkeeper will cost him his job. He cannot play him again as the defence has turned to **** since he came in.

pavb2 · 15-02-2017 12:40pm

The whole team was completely disjointed last night as bad as we've seen, Amavi nothing like the player he was, Hogan isolated, Hourihane and Grealish anonymous (I would have taken JG off at half time) the list goes on.

We never looked like getting back in to the game and in the last 20 minutes Barnsley looked like they were the team 2 goals behind such was their attacking intent.

The unnerving part is that with Newcastle away next week things are going to get even worse.

Francie Barrett · 15-02-2017 1:15pm

Mad that some people said a spell in the Championship would be good for Villa.

CSF · 15-02-2017 2:09pm

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Mad that some people said a spell in the Championship would be good for Villa.

It can go either way. The right managerial appointment and it could have galvanised the club, unfortunately we have got it wrong twice and I fear that if we get it wrong a third time we could genuinely end up going the other direction and become a Leeds or a Nottingham Forest.

Genuinely scared of relegation but think/hope on the balance of probabilities we'll probably scrape safety.

Sono · 15-02-2017 2:56pm

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Mad that some people said a spell in the Championship would be good for Villa.

Well hovering in the premier league every season around relegation was inevitable the we have been the past 6 years or so, surely you can see why fans may have seen it as a chance to rebuild and get some confidence in the team again and get the feel good factor around the club which has been missing for years. Sadly we have rebuilt the squad but there is no confidence/feel good factor at the club just very highly paid championship players which could really hurt us in the long run.

If we get rid of Bruce the next appointment has to be absolutely spot on and no messing around, get it wrong and I fear we could be down here and lower for years.

Panrich · 15-02-2017 3:44pm

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Mad that some people said a spell in the Championship would be good for Villa.

I'm hoping we'll have at least another season. We're in free fall at the minute.

Sirsok · 15-02-2017 3:51pm

Did an interview with Mikey Drennan recently about his time in football, especially at villa, was interesting to hear his thoughts. I used to follow his progress as we are related but wouldnt be close. Some interesting insights into his life as a footballer, saying that McLeish was probably the most supportive manager out of the ones he worked under. Wasnt a fan of lambert at all but said no one at the club really was.

Shame the club is relegated after winning the next gen series a few years ago.

LeBash · 15-02-2017 4:21pm

CSF wrote: »

It can go either way. The right managerial appointment and it could have galvanised the club, unfortunately we have got it wrong twice and I fear that if we get it wrong a third time we could genuinely end up going the other direction and become a Leeds or a Nottingham Forest.

Genuinely scared of relegation but think/hope on the balance of probabilities we'll probably scrape safety.

In fairness to the board, I think we all though Bruce was the right man at the time. Nobody saw what was coming after the start he made.

The next right man could be the wrong choice or maybe Bruce needs time to be the right man. He didn't become a crappy championship manager overnight, so what's wrong?

Still needs to go imo though.

CSF · 15-02-2017 4:52pm

LeBash wrote: »

CSF wrote: »

It can go either way. The right managerial appointment and it could have galvanised the club, unfortunately we have got it wrong twice and I fear that if we get it wrong a third time we could genuinely end up going the other direction and become a Leeds or a Nottingham Forest.

Genuinely scared of relegation but think/hope on the balance of probabilities we'll probably scrape safety.

In fairness to the board, I think we all though Bruce was the right man at the time. Nobody saw what was coming after the start he made.

The next right man could be the wrong choice or maybe Bruce needs time to be the right man. He didn't become a crappy championship manager overnight, so what's wrong?

Still needs to go imo though.

I don't remember Bruce being top of many people's lists the minute Di Matteo went, but when the media and the odds pointed to him being the man who was going to get it, everyone, myself included was happy enough to go along with it.

Next appointment ideally should be a relatively young manager who has been a winner everywhere he has been so far. With Villa being in a precarious need for the right appointment this time I'd be veering as far away from anyone who has been sacked more than once from a club outside those clubs who are obviously bigger fish than ourselves (before everything went to sh*t, pretty much anywhere is more attractive than where we are now).

What I mean by that is, I could forgive a Mancini or De Boer for eventually not making it at Inter (I know people don't think even by offering those guys piles of money we couldn't attract those, and perhaps they are right but we should try) but the likes of Pardew who've inevitably failed everywhere they've went really, would scare the bejaysus out of me.

We can't have another manager where it's gonna end in tears within 2 years.

Walter H Price · 15-02-2017 5:10pm

Playoff's gone , top 10 slipping away , Plan C now i guess, 3 wins and a few draws from the last 15 stay in the League now

No teams been relegated with 45 points in the last 5 seasons , thats the target, sad times.

the giants not sleeping its brain dead

Panrich · 15-02-2017 5:29pm

The club was a shambles when Paul Lambert left us after yet another dismal performance away to (ironically enough) Steve Bruce's Hull.
Villa had gone 10 games without a win and over 8 hours without an away goal and slipped into the bottom three that night.

2 years and 4 days later, Steve Bruce's team have just lost to Barnsley to record. It is 10 games since our last win (8 league and 1 cup).

Of the teams that started these games two years apart, only Alan Hutton started both games. Only Gabby Agbonlahor of the rest of the team is still at the club. Leandro Bacuna started both games on the bench. None of the rest of that team or bench two years ago are at the club now. A few are on loan, but not expected to ever return.

The point is that in the past two years, we have seen a complete overhaul of the club from the owner down to the playing staff and we are now even worse off. The losing mentality, zero goal threat and aimless tactics seems to have survived intact through four subsequent managers and coaching teams, through two squad rebuilds, and a total clearout of the management structures within the club.

We've been sucker punched so many times in those two years that I've almost lost count. Plenty of decent performances undone by bad luck or unforgivable errors and each one erodes the confidence just a little more. Last season off the top of my head:

Crystal Palace away: One up, concede a late equaliser and then Guzan to Amavi mixup in the last minute to gift 3 points
Leicester away: 2-0 up after 70. Lose 3-2.
Chelsea away: Playing well. Guzan -Lescott mixup, then bizarre OG.
West Ham away: Came into game in a little bit of form. Bossing the game. Ayew off for a petulant strike. Lose 2-0.

This season:

We have conceded so many late equalisers/winners that we really should have many more points on the board. Again off the top of my head: Wednesday, Forest x2, Ipswich, Huddersfield, Brentford and Barnsley away. all of these sap confidence a little bit more. We now look a beaten docket when we fall behind (Cardiff, Wolves, Brentford and Barnsley) and even when we go ahead we don't have the confidence to hang on for a win (Preston, Forest).

We have fluked wins this season against Wigan and Burton but those only seem to reinforce our insecurities about our ability and we've yet to see a 90 minute performance (Rotherham?). The team is on a downward confidence spiral that will take a serious run of form to arrest but it's almost like a self fulfilling prophecy that we can't meet a team on a worse run of form/luck than ourselves.

CSF · 15-02-2017 5:34pm

The problem is, if you look of it, so little of it has actually been luck. Bad individual errors are rarely bad luck.

GHOST MGG · 15-02-2017 5:37pm

Roy keane was right when he said there were players at aston villa that did not give a ****...he is right today as well even with the new ones.
Dr twitter xia telling everyone we would be a champions league winning team in 5 years made dollar signs in the eyes of the players who would come to villa.
Dont expect a miracalous turnaround in our league position as im not sure bruce is able to do it.
I mean 12m on mc cormack and 40k a week sums up the villa at the minute..a struggling championship side paying premiership prices for medicore league players.
I think the whole footballing operation needs to be brought back to the very basics and then built from their..but thats not going to happen anytime soon.

Walter H Price · 15-02-2017 5:39pm

Panrich wrote: »

The club was a shambles when Paul Lambert left us after yet another dismal performance away to (ironically enough) Steve Bruce's Hull.
Villa had gone 10 games without a win and over 8 hours without an away goal and slipped into the bottom three that night.

2 years and 4 days later, Steve Bruce's team have just lost to Barnsley to record. It is 10 games since our last win (8 league and 1 cup).

Of the teams that started these games two years apart, only Alan Hutton started both games. Only Gabby Agbonlahor of the rest of the team is still at the club. Leandro Bacuna started both games on the bench. None of the rest of that team or bench two years ago are at the club now. A few are on loan, but not expected to ever return.

The point is that in the past two years, we have seen a complete overhaul of the club from the owner down to the playing staff and we are now even worse off. The losing mentality, zero goal threat and aimless tactics seems to have survived intact through four subsequent managers and coaching teams, through two squad rebuilds, and a total clearout of the management structures within the club.

We've been sucker punched so many times in those two years that I've almost lost count. Plenty of decent performances undone by bad luck or unforgivable errors and each one erodes the confidence just a little more. Last season off the top of my head:

Crystal Palace away: One up, concede a late equaliser and then Guzan to Amavi mixup in the last minute to gift 3 points
Leicester away: 2-0 up after 70. Lose 3-2.
Chelsea away: Playing well. Guzan -Lescott mixup, then bizarre OG.
West Ham away: Came into game in a little bit of form. Bossing the game. Ayew off for a petulant strike. Lose 2-0.

This season:

We have conceded so many late equalisers/winners that we really should have many more points on the board. Again off the top of my head: Wednesday, Forest x2, Ipswich, Huddersfield, Brentford and Barnsley away. all of these sap confidence a little bit more. We now look a beaten docket when we fall behind (Cardiff, Wolves, Brentford and Barnsley) and even when we go ahead we don't have the confidence to hang on for a win (Preston, Forest).

We have fluked wins this season against Wigan and Burton but those only seem to reinforce our insecurities about our ability and we've yet to see a 90 minute performance (Rotherham?). The team is on a downward confidence spiral that will take a serious run of form to arrest but it's almost like a self fulfilling prophecy that we can't meet a team on a worse run of form/luck than ourselves.

Be difficult to meet a team on worse given we are on the third worse run of form in all 4 division think Leicester and Rotherham are the only teams worse then us ... all on 1 point in the last 8 (leicester -12 GDF , Rotherham -9 GDF and Villa -8 GDF)

Panrich · 15-02-2017 5:41pm

Here's a quote from Ciaran Clark on what he found at Newcastle versus what he left behind at Villa

And Clark admits that there was big differences between the two clubs. The central-defender said: “From the moment I arrived, it didn’t feel like a club that had just gone down.

“I sensed a feel-good factor which you don’t normally associate with a club that’s just suffered relegation.

“The vibe was so positive and even on the streets, there was excitement and positivity among the fans.”

The doom and gloom from all the relegation battles has sapped the energy of the fans and the mood around the club. That's a hard mindset to change.

CSF · 15-02-2017 5:45pm

I think there was positivity at Villa too though. It was just sapped away by bad performance after bad performance with the results going the same way.

artanevilla · 15-02-2017 6:11pm

I wonder how many Villa players live in and around Birmingham versus Newcastle players in and around Newcastle.

Savman · 15-02-2017 7:37pm

Need a younger version of MON. Someone with a big personality who'll take on the board, the chairman, the fans, the media and who can handle players with big egos.

Bruce is just the latest victim in what seems to be a poisoned chalice. Sack him now and replace him with who? Our reputation is dogsh*t, any named manager will just see it as a short term payday and not give a flying f*ck about the future of the club beyond May.

Leave SB at it I say.

CSF · 15-02-2017 8:03pm

Savman wrote: »

Need a younger version of MON. Someone with a big personality who'll take on the board, the chairman, the fans, the media and who can handle players with big egos.

Bruce is just the latest victim in what seems to be a poisoned chalice. Sack him now and replace him with who? Our reputation is dogsh*t, any named manager will just see it as a short term payday and not give a flying f*ck about the future of the club beyond May.

Leave SB at it I say.

We're on genuine relegation form. You'd have to figure that if we can't turn form around sharply we will be sucked in and left hoping the teams below keep losing to the teams above. The performances frequently weren't that strong even when we were winning games IMO so it's not as if we have some high level to revert back to.

I don't get the poisoned chalice remark either. Xia doesn't seem to know a lot about football and his Twitter account is nonsensical at the best of times, but he has backed both his managers completely. If you're a manager and you can come into a club and keep, sign and sell pretty much whoever you want, that freedom is what I've always known managers to love.

The thing about that though is that when you're backed to the hilt that comes with pressure to perform, and the 2 guys wilted under that.

But the positive flipside is that we've signed lots of players that any manager will want to keep. Prospective managers aren't gonna come in look at Jedinak, Lansbury, Hourihane, Adomah, Kodjia and Hogan and say 'f*ck this i need an overhaul'.

IMO the hard work has been done by now and we just need a winner to come in, keep us up, sign a competent keeper and another centre back and make a genuine promotion battle from August next year.

pavb2 · 15-02-2017 9:14pm

We've changed the owner, changed the chief executive and board, changed managers, had three different attempts at building a team since Sherwood so it doesn't leave a lot left.

The immediate problem is that Bruce has brought in his own players and still has the remnants of the previous two attempts, Sherwood's & di Matteo's. He doesn't know his best players or system which is why we're in the trouble we're in.

Bruce has got 4 promotions from this league so you would think he's not entirely clueless the question is how long does the Dr give him and what league position is acceptable. Come the end of the season there needs to be obvious signs that we're heading in the right direction

Raven Runner · 16-02-2017 2:46am

I'm hoping the fact that everyone expects us to lose against Newcastle on Monday will work in our favour I would deffo change the keeper though and put Bunn in.

Savman · 16-02-2017 10:57am

CSF wrote: »

IMO the hard work has been done by now and we just need a winner to come in, keep us up, sign a competent keeper and another centre back and make a genuine promotion battle from August next year.

And that winner is...??

CSF · 16-02-2017 11:12am

Savman wrote: »

CSF wrote: »

IMO the hard work has been done by now and we just need a winner to come in, keep us up, sign a competent keeper and another centre back and make a genuine promotion battle from August next year.

And that winner is...??

For me Pal Dardai or Hein Vanhaezebrouck. British managers have continually proved to be inferior tactically because of their football upbringing, but they're still always touted for every job as a safe option.

We need to get someone on the way up rather than another of those managers who end up out of a job every couple of years. When Bruce inevitably goes, you're going to see Pardew linked but why would you do that when you've seen time after time how that story ends? It's one of English football's strangest logics. The more frequently you fail in a job, the more experienced you're viewed and it's seen as a good thing.

Savman · 16-02-2017 11:33am

CSF wrote: »

For me Pal Dardai or Hein Vanhaezebrouck. British managers have continually proved to be inferior tactically because of their football upbringing, but they're still always touted for every job as a safe option.

Had to google those names :pac:
Neither have experience at a high level, so both would resemble yet another huge gamble. We can't afford to get the next appointment wrong or it's curtains league 1.

I do agree about the British managers, inflated by the media and they generally don't offer anything new to the game. You can see in the PL now with Conte, Pep, Klopp etc. the technical side of the game has advance and the Pardews and Allardyces are looking well dated now.

I'd welcome a good young coach from Europe with a good footballing philosophy but, and I'm advocating here, but didn't we already try that approach with Remi Garde? Team played some brilliant football under his reign but they could not muster a result to save their lives.

CSF · 16-02-2017 12:16pm

I think Garde is the best manager we've had since O'Neill personally. We talk about managers at Villa having been given a poisoned chalice but I think he is the only one who actually was. Wasn't able to sign or get rid of anyone. Was left with a poisonous group of players and did his very best to get something from them. I'm not saying that he absolutely would have worked out differently this year, nobody can do that. But he's the one I'd have had the most faith in. The one who was a victim of circumstances rather than his own failings which Sherwood, Di Matteo and Bruce unquestionably have been. Lambert less so with limited resources, but even he had time to shape something, Garde had none.

I agree with you on the experienced thing. But I think an experienced winner will be hard to come by. I think we have to find the next Pep, Klopp, Mourinho, Tuchel because those ones aren't going to join us and the likes of Pardew or Hodgson would just be carrying on a losing cycle.

CSF · 16-02-2017 12:16pm

I think Garde is the best manager we've had since O'Neill personally. We talk about managers at Villa having been given a poisoned chalice but I think he is the only one who actually was. Wasn't able to sign or get rid of anyone. Was left with a poisonous group of players and did his very best to get something from them. I'm not saying that he absolutely would have worked out differently this year, nobody can do that. But he's the one I'd have had the most faith in. The one who was a victim of circumstances rather than his own failings which Sherwood, Di Matteo and Bruce unquestionably have been. Lambert less so with limited resources, but even he had time to shape something, Garde had none.

I agree with you on the experienced thing. But I think an experienced winner will be hard to come by. I think we have to find the next Pep, Klopp, Mourinho, Tuchel because those ones aren't going to join us and the likes of Pardew or Hodgson would just be carrying on a losing cycle.

Panrich · 16-02-2017 12:29pm

I'm fed up of managers who are tactically naive to the point that as Bruce said once, I don't care about tactics'. Here's an old article that could be written today, 6 years later.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2011/nov/30/steve-bruce-sunderland-sacked

We've never had a progressive approach to the football side of the club. Any manager who might have been halfway modern has been preceded and succeeded by footballing dinosuars. We got in a 'stats' man from Southampton in the Summer who was seen as a coup at the time but he has quietly left the club already. I don't see too many opportunities to flourish in that role under our current manager.

Savman · 16-02-2017 12:47pm

Panrich wrote: »

I'm fed up of managers who are tactically naive to the point that as Bruce said once, I don't care about tactics'. Here's an old article that could be written today, 6 years later.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2011/nov/30/steve-bruce-sunderland-sacked

That makes for dire reading tbh.

CSF · 16-02-2017 1:16pm

Panrich wrote: »

I'm fed up of managers who are tactically naive to the point that as Bruce said once, I don't care about tactics'. Here's an old article that could be written today, 6 years later.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2011/nov/30/steve-bruce-sunderland-sacked

We've never had a progressive approach to the football side of the club. Any manager who might have been halfway modern has been preceded and succeeded by footballing dinosuars. We got in a 'stats' man from Southampton in the Summer who was seen as a coup at the time but he has quietly left the club already. I don't see too many opportunities to flourish in that role under our current manager.

Agree with this 100%

BUNK1982 · 16-02-2017 1:56pm

Panrich wrote: »

I'm fed up of managers who are tactically naive to the point that as Bruce said once, I don't care about tactics'. Here's an old article that could be written today, 6 years later.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2011/nov/30/steve-bruce-sunderland-sacked

That is a sobering read - especially when it was 6 years ago!

the idea of hiring a sports psychologist was dismissed not a good omen either.

I was happy with the Bruce appointment at the time and I would have left in place for the year as i think we do need stability. But the thing is there's no real down side to firing him.

He hasn't organised the defence, there's no hint of a playing style or system emerging, no youngsters coming through and the results are worse than what what RDM got the sack for.

Sack him and Calderwood, hire a coach and no more money to spend until Jan 2019.

CSF · 16-02-2017 2:09pm

Wouldn't go as far as no more money. We need a keeper and a centre back. But no more overhauls.

Sono · 16-02-2017 2:22pm

Good to see no names mentioned that are realistic and would improve the side, the fact remains it will be difficult to get a replacement to improve this side.

Stick with Bruce for now, constantly changing managers solves nothing.

CSF · 16-02-2017 2:39pm

Sono wrote: »

Good to see no names mentioned that are realistic and would improve the side, the fact remains it will be difficult to get a replacement to improve this side.

Stick with Bruce for now, constantly changing managers solves nothing.

Names that you think are realistic and would improve the side. These things are highly opinion based.

CSF · 16-02-2017 8:38pm

Bruce coming out with some serious nonsense today.

'Before these last 6 weeks I was the greatest thing since sliced bread'

Let's just ignore that we were 10 points from 21 in the games before it.

You had a honeymoon period pal, jog on.

Sono · 16-02-2017 8:43pm

In Bruce we(I) trust

pavb2 · 16-02-2017 9:04pm

I'm not Bruce's biggest fan, games like Fulham, Blackburn and Wigan were awful to watch even though we got a result.

I just think that at the moment there are no better alternatives out there. Using Rowett as an example he has done well with Burton & Blues but the danger is he'll come to Villa and turn into Lambert mark 2. Lambert did exceptionally well at Colchester & Norwich but then it all fell apart at Villa.

I think that for now Bruce is the less riskier option.

CSF · 16-02-2017 9:34pm

pavb2 wrote: »

I'm not Bruce's biggest fan, games like Fulham, Blackburn and Wigan were awful to watch even though we got a result.

I just think that at the moment there are no better alternatives out there. Using Rowett as an example he has done well with Burton & Blues but the danger is he'll come to Villa and turn into Lambert mark 2. Lambert did exceptionally well at Colchester & Norwich but then it all fell apart at Villa.

I think that for now Bruce is the less riskier option.

By all accounts Rowett is another Bruce stylewise. That's something I'd like to avoid.

Sono · 16-02-2017 9:41pm

That Veretout lad for St Etienne looks a player, we should sign him in the summer...

Sono · 16-02-2017 9:50pm

Veretout driving St Etienne forward at will, such a shame it didn't work out at Villa, he's a fine player.

Aston Villa Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2019/2020

Comments