Ford Transit conversion to camper MKII

Buford T Justice · 21-02-2021 9:43pm

The idea is to have the default operation(NC) side of the contactor to supply via the inverter and use the energised state to supply via shore power.

I'm wondering if the issue was the CTE, or floating earth as you mention. I mean I know that I did it, but it'd be nice to know how.

This is the config at the time

Shore power in via rcbo powering the ProNautic via 16A MCB
Shore power feeding the two N/O points of the contactor and the + also energising the coil. Neutral of the coil and the shore power to the neutral bus bar.

Inverter in via rcbo (cos I had one) and feeding the N/C points of the contactor with the neutral output going to the bus bar.

Both positive outputs of the contactor are joined together into a singe pole mcb for supplying the sockets

I had shore power running with the 240 feed being supplied via this at the sockets mcb. I tripped the switch for the shore power and the output switched to the inverter.

I then did one of the following:
Shore power live with the switch down for the inverter, energised inverter = boom!
Inverter power live with switch down for shore, energised shore = boom.

I'm no electrician by any stretch, but would this have been caused by 100 odd volts on the neutral from the inverter, since they were all common?

21-02-2021 10:11pm

Linking the neutrals is just referencing that leg to the neutral potential it's not a detrimental situation until you add unsynchronised lives.
I switch neutrals too because you never know when you'll come across reverse polarity shore power and less potential for sh1t to go wrong if you do.

You can tie all the earths and all the neutrals as long as there's no linked lives if shouldn't cause any problems. If you tied them in the wrong place it'll trip the RCD but not blow stuff up.

Forget about center tapped earth, there's no transformer involved that's a red herring.

My guess is your contactors are firing at diferent speeds and there's a long enough overlap to make 400V at the inverter output. This is why we use transfer delays. or DPDT contactors (backwards) so that it can never be both. That is what an interlock system is. Exclusive switching.

You'll need an O-scope to diagnose it if it's not a wiring misnomer.

colm_mcm · 21-02-2021 10:44pm

What seats are you using in the back?

Buford T Justice · 21-02-2021 11:44pm

colm_mcm wrote: »

What seats are you using in the back?

Transit Minibus seats:

colm_mcm · 21-02-2021 11:56pm

How big will the kitchen be?

Buford T Justice · 22-02-2021 11:31am

colm_mcm wrote: »

How big will the kitchen be?

Yet to be determined. I've consulted the MIUAYGA (make it up as you go along) catalog and the dimensions are sketchy.
The original plan was to re-use the kitchen that was in the old van, which came from a caravan but it looks to be too big an clunky. I did a test fit to get a general idea but it seems the gap would be too narrow between the kitchen and the seats.

I think I'm going to get one of these sinks, since it'll save a lot of space and build a new unit around it - though I don't have a mate with a cnc to help me

I'd like to have kept the grill from the old unit, but what can you do eh?

I found this on DoneDeal, which is the same layout as what mine will be, and this looks like a plan really

Yj-Yz-MWMw-Yz-E5-OGQ3-Yz-Bi-NThk-Nm-U1-ZTk3-OTZi-MTI5-Zmb9aa-MT8i5ul8-XZY87v-MW3ea-HR0c-Dov-L3-Mz-LWV1-LXdlc3-Qt-MS5hb-WF6b25h.jpg

Yj-Yz-MWMw-Yz-E5-OGQ3-Yz-Bi-NThk-Nm-U1-ZTk3-OTZi-MTI5-Zmb9aa-MT8i5ul8-XZY87v-MW3ea-HR0c-Dov-L3-Mz-LWV1-LXdlc3-Qt-MS5hb-WF6b25h.jpg

colm_mcm · 22-02-2021 12:20pm

I think you could slide the double seat forwards a bit. There’s tonnes of room there between the front and back seats in this picture

lawred2 · 22-02-2021 12:23pm

colm_mcm wrote: »

I think you could slide the double seat forwards a bit. There’s tonnes of room there between the front and back seats in this picture

they'd be in front of the window then wouldn't they??

colm_mcm · 22-02-2021 12:32pm

What harm though?

Just for contrast, this is the gap we have. It’s about as tight as you can comfortably go without hitting knees/legs. Not saying you need to go that tight, but your toilet cubicle is extremely small so it would benefit from more room. Even if you brought front of headrest level with back of window it would help get past the kitchen.
You’d end up halfway between the two, size wise.

Buford T Justice · 22-02-2021 1:38pm

colm_mcm wrote: »

What harm though?

Just for contrast, this is the gap we have. It’s about as tight as you can comfortably go without hitting knees/legs. Not saying you need to go that tight, but your toilet cubicle is extremely small so it would benefit from more room. Even if you brought front of headrest level with back of window it would help get past the kitchen.
You’d end up halfway between the two, size wise.

I looked at that alright and to be fair it doesn't really bother me if it is in front of the windows. Since I have the swivel seats and two kids, it's important to try and keep the one sitting area where we can all fit if at all possible.

I moved the seats up a fair bit. It'll make the toilet bigger, (no shower remember) so might end up with storage space out of it as a result.
You can see here where the seats are further up, but the gap is still small.

However, this one has the seats further back, and in the same vein as mine the toilet cubicle is narrower than the seats. I think with a combination of a slimmer kitchen unit that tapers off and the seats a bit further forward we might just be in business. If I'm really stuck for space in the hall, I can always recess the toilet a few inches into the wall panel to give a bit extra space, but I don't think that's needed.
ODc3-MDgw-ZDM4-MDM3-ZTJl-Yj-Bm-NWVk-Mm-Mw-Nm-Y1-NTUx-ODl-GA-UQOHMFo-W4-Reh-YYzn-EWa-HR0c-Dov-L3-Mz-LWV1-LXdlc3-Qt-MS5hb-WF6b25h.jpg

ODc3-MDgw-ZDM4-MDM3-ZTJl-Yj-Bm-NWVk-Mm-Mw-Nm-Y1-NTUx-ODl-GA-UQOHMFo-W4-Reh-YYzn-EWa-HR0c-Dov-L3-Mz-LWV1-LXdlc3-Qt-MS5hb-WF6b25h.jpg

22-02-2021 9:22pm

Seems to me that if you mounted the taps internal to the sinks you could save quite a bittov space.

You guys are reminding me why I'm so glad my Mk-II is a truck and not a van.

I'd take it as an opportunity to use footswitches for taps instead. You won't believe the water you can save.

Buford T Justice · 22-02-2021 9:53pm

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Seems to me that if you mounted the taps internal to the sinks you could save quite a bittov space.

You guys are reminding me why I'm so glad my Mk-II is a truck and not a van.

I'd take it as an opportunity to use footswitches for taps instead. You won't believe the water you can save.

There's no opportunity to do that on the sink I have I'm afraid.

22-02-2021 10:40pm

Whale tuckaway faucet.

Folding kitchen tap.

Footswitches can be water/air solenoid valve triggers. Put the valve in series with the plumbing and the electricity in parallel.

colm_mcm · 23-02-2021 12:24am

If you’re going for the Smev, you’ll have a hole for an internal tap either way

Buford T Justice · 23-02-2021 1:58am

colm_mcm wrote: »

If you’re going for the Smev, you’ll have a hole for an internal tap either way

That's what I was thinking. the SMEV / Dometic is around 325mm or 375mm deep depending on the model vs the current 500, plus the inbuilt tap. It's considerably slimmer and with the tapered end it might do the job.

What space do you have between the kitchen unit and the seats?

Oh, and what is the depth of the countertop?

Buford T Justice · 25-02-2021 12:18am

Since i have an MPPT on the way (again, credit to Sir Liam) I added cabling to support the game yet to be bought solar panel(s)

My double pole mcb's arrived today, (well all except one for the contactor coil) and I took another stab at the consumer unit and I believe I've had more success.

When I undid the wiring I did spot some funky goings on which made me wonder what the hell I was doing. I followed my own diagram diligently this time and it seems to work.

Very left is the mcb for shore power which feeds the next mcb which is for the pro-nautic. Live out of the shore power mcb feeds the N/O contacts on the contactor. The live also powers the coil with the output of the coil to the neutral of the same mcb.

Next mcb is the inverter in. It may not be needed but I have them anyway so I've used them. The output from this feeds the N/C contacts on the contactor.

Both Lives from the contactor are joined into the most right mcb and both neutrals respectively giving a double pole feed to the sockets. This can then go to the sockets and the neutral bus bar if needs be.

Never mind the single pole mcb's - they're just filling space at the moment, but there will be another double pole 2a mcb here for the coil of the contactor.

I plugged in the inverter supply and I got 240 out from the sockets mcb.
I plugged in shore power and as you can see the contactor is energised. There is still 240 to the sockets but now fed from shore and not the inverter feed. It seems to be the job, but I can't fully test it since I am sans inverter at the moment.

25-02-2021 8:11am

Buford T Justice wrote: »

Since i have an MPPT on the way (again, credit to Sir Liam) I added cabling to support the game yet to be bought solar panel(s)

Best there is!
If you want it programmed and the firmware updated send it to me, I can reflash it and send it back.

Buford T Justice wrote: »

Next mcb is the inverter in. It may not be needed but I have them anyway so I've used them.

Won't work other than as a manual switch. You need 3x rated to trip them.

The inverter ought to have an RCD though and be neutralised, with the vehicle shell earthed and grounded.

Buford T Justice wrote: »

there will be another double pole 2a mcb here for the coil of the contactor.

No need the wire for a contactor coil is so thin it can be considered fuse wire.
I'd advise a delay timer here instead set to 1 second.

Buford T Justice wrote: »

I plugged in the inverter supply and I got 240 out from the sockets mcb.
I plugged in shore power and as you can see the contactor is energised. There is still 240 to the sockets but now fed from shore and not the inverter feed. It seems to be the job, but I can't fully test it since I am sans inverter at the moment.

Sounds fine.
Check for continuity between live and van shell & neutral and van shell too with the system unpowered. Should be neither if you're floating earth.

Buford T Justice · 25-02-2021 11:00am

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Won't work other than as a manual switch. You need 3x rated to trip them.

The inverter ought to have an RCD though and be neutralised, with the vehicle shell earthed and grounded.

That Hager that the inverter runs into is an RCBO, so should be good for an imbalance no?

Check for continuity between live and van shell & neutral and van shell too with the system unpowered. Should be neither if you're floating earth.

On my list is to earth the consumer unit to the van body. Will do this through the floor to the chassis and test

25-02-2021 11:39am

Buford T Justice wrote: »

That Hager that the inverter runs into is an RCBO, so should be good for an imbalance no?

Kindov. I'd get rid of the MCB it's not doing anything you can switch it with the RCBO.
There's no imbalance going to be created unless you neutralise the inverter (tie the neutral to the earth upstream of the RCBO).
The imbalance is created by current traveling on the PE instead of the neutral, if they're not tied there's no path until a person becomes one.

The answer is yes if you allow it.

Buford T Justice wrote: »

On my list is to earth the consumer unit to the van body. Will do this through the floor to the chassis and test

The earth between the DC bus and Inverter ought to be one size smaller than the inverter DC feeder because this can be a DC fault path too and a 1.5mm² PE won't cut it with a 100A DC fault.
Once you tie the Earth bus to the ground bus (2.5mm² if you put the inverter PE direct to the DC bus or the same size as the inverter PE if you don't) the chassis is earthed via the DC chassis ground via the DC ground bus.

If you are being really lazy link the Inverter chassis PE to the DC ground at the inverter to save cable...it's messy and I don't like it but it works electrically.

Quite often even the inverter manufacturers don't know what they are doing and the PE stud is teeny and there's not enough meat on it for a 35mm² cable or similar. In which case I tap a brass M8 into the inverter chassis.

Buford T Justice · 25-02-2021 12:38pm

What do you mean by PE?

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Kindov. I'd get rid of the MCB it's not doing anything you can switch it with the RCBO.

The two single pole mcb's are just placeholders - only there to hog space for now. The double pole mcb is to the left is feeding the pronautic via the rcbo from the shore power - Is this the one you're referring to?

There's no imbalance going to be created unless you neutralise the inverter (tie the neutral to the earth upstream of the RCBO).
The imbalance is created by current traveling on the PE instead of the neutral, if they're not tied there's no path until a person becomes one.

So I should tie the neutral bus bar that's upstream of the MCB on the right to the chassis earth?

IE, Red or Yellow? (To be fair, I've no connection to the bus bar atm, just straight into the MCB (yellow)

Cheensbo · 25-02-2021 12:41pm

Buford T Justice wrote: »

the old van

Great thread Mr Justice, have been following sporadically for a while, just spotted this though - have you still got it? Hardly breaking it for parts?

Buford T Justice · 25-02-2021 1:02pm

Cheensbo wrote: »

Great thread Mr Justice, have been following sporadically for a while, just spotted this though - have you still got it? Hardly breaking it for parts?

Yes and yes.

Cheensbo · 25-02-2021 1:07pm

Buford T Justice wrote: »

Yes and yes.

Super !

I'm pretty sure we're not local to each other so I will send you a PM when things free up a little bit if that's ok.

Buford T Justice · 25-02-2021 1:26pm

Cheensbo wrote: »

Super !

I'm pretty sure we're not local to each other so I will send you a PM when things free up a little bit if that's ok.

No worries. It's not going anywhere for a while.

What are you looking for out of curiosity?

Cheensbo · 25-02-2021 1:43pm

Buford T Justice wrote: »

No worries. It's not going anywhere for a while.

What are you looking for out of curiosity?

Mostly little things - if you would be willing to part with them of course - the rubber strip over the joint from the hightop to the top of the cab, the blower controls & wiring, washer bottle and the wiring connector for it, possibly both door cards if in better nick than my own. step covers - (if it has them)

And also possibly the engine, depending on the exact model & condition..

Here's my lady, not a jumbo like yours but a regular lwb hightop 100L

25-02-2021 2:28pm

Buford T Justice wrote: »

What do you mean by PE?

Protective Earth it's the official sparky term for the AC circuit earth.

Buford T Justice wrote: »

Is this the one you're referring to?

The inverter output MCB it'll never do anything. You can usually rely on the inverters overload protection and/or DC input fuse instead.

Buford T Justice wrote: »

So I should tie the neutral bus bar that's upstream of the MCB on the right to the chassis earth?

I make a green earth bus and a black DC ground bus. I link the two with a wire. I connect the inverter neutral to the earth bus.

You can run a chassis earth or the DC is already that in a black jacket instead of green so linking the bus bars is all you need to do to earth the chassis.

Buford T Justice wrote: »

IE, Red or Yellow? (To be fair, I've no connection to the bus bar atm, just straight into the MCB (yellow)

Close as you can to your no. "13"

Yellow will trip the RCBO and the Shore RCD.
It has to be upstream of the inverter RCBO and isolated from shore power.

Buford T Justice · 25-02-2021 2:41pm

Cheensbo wrote: »

Mostly little things - if you would be willing to part with them of course - the rubber strip over the joint from the hightop to the top of the cab, the blower controls & wiring, washer bottle and the wiring connector for it, possibly both door cards if in better nick than my own. step covers - (if it has them)

And also possibly the engine, depending on the exact model & condition..

Here's my lady, not a jumbo like yours but a regular lwb hightop 100L

I'll part with the whole thing :pac::pac::pac:.

By step covers you mean the plastic ones in the front doors? If so, I have them
Have everything else you want too.

It's a 2.5D straight banana engine. Bulletproof and even now will start without a problem, or it would if the starter wasn't seized. Put it this way - If I give it a tug with a tractor and put a battery into it it'll start without an issue. I've always been told that the van will long fall apart before that engine fails...

Guess what happened?

Cheensbo · 25-02-2021 3:21pm

Buford T Justice wrote: »

I'll part with the whole thing :pac::pac::pac:.

By step covers you mean the plastic ones in the front doors? If so, I have them
Have everything else you want too.

It's a 2.5D straight banana engine. Bulletproof and even now will start without a problem, or it would if the starter wasn't seized. Put it this way - If I give it a tug with a tractor and put a battery into it it'll start without an issue. I've always been told that the van will long fall apart before that engine fails...

Guess what happened?

I'd love to take the whole thing, storage is my bother.

Brilliant, if you could keep the covers and bits for me I will for sure take them.

Brilliant on the engine, my goal is to overhaul and turbo convert a second engine while trundling on with the current banana lump in the meantime - hopefully we can discuss in person

I'm going to guess it fell apart? :pac:

Mine did too, it got a lot of new metal - sorry for the photo highjackings :pac:

Buford T Justice · 25-02-2021 3:26pm

Cheensbo wrote: »

I'd love to take the whole thing, storage is my bother.

Brilliant, if you could keep the covers and bits for me I will for sure take them.

Brilliant on the engine, my goal is to overhaul and turbo convert a second engine while trundling on with the current banana lump in the meantime - hopefully we can discuss in person

I'm going to guess it fell apart? :pac:

Top marks. Tin worm is this van's downfall

25-02-2021 5:29pm

Buford T Justice wrote: »

I plugged in the inverter supply and I got 240 out from the sockets mcb.
I plugged in shore power and as you can see the contactor is energised. There is still 240 to the sockets but now fed from shore and not the inverter feed. It seems to be the job, but I can't fully test it since I am sans inverter at the moment.

Check that you don't have shore power at the inverter output when connected to shore & that the pins of the shore power lead aren't live (from inverter) when shore is disconnected.

Buford T Justice · 26-02-2021 12:19am

Added, or cut to fit should I say the bed rails in the back of the van. They're not fixed in since they'd be a pain if they were.

I added the first wall piece for the bathroom wall but I stopped at moving forward since I may be making the bathroom larger and bringing the seats a bit forward.

I've ordered a new sink / cooker combo and they've delays in orders atm. I'm expecting them to arrive towards the end of next week so i can then do some mock layout etc..

Also started insulating the roof while I was at it. I don't know what I was thinking about when I was cutting out the grooves for the cables. Seems a bit pointless really. Anyhow, there you go.

colm_mcm · 26-02-2021 12:22am

I think we have the same bed rails!

Your bed recesses are great. How much width does that give you?

Buford T Justice · 26-02-2021 8:33pm

colm_mcm wrote: »

I think we have the same bed rails!

Your bed recesses are great. How much width does that give you?

Just shy of a full double bed. I think. I'll measure it when I'm back at it, buy I do get an extra 4 inches back

SirLiam - I've been studying the chat around the electrical stuff and I've put together a todo. How does this sound?

Remove the double pole mcb that's the input for the inverter and go direct to the RCBO instead
neutral out of the inverter to the earth of the van (chassis), most likely at the output point of the RCBO above
Earth output & body of inverter to van chassis
Earth the consumer unit to the van chassis

What's the benefit of the delay timer? I don't see what the difference would be if you energised the coil when shore power is connected or 1 second after. (then again, I'm not an electrician)

Check for continuity between live and van shell & neutral and van shell too with the system unpowered. Should be neither if you're floating earth.

Are you referring to the final 240 supply feeding to the sockets to check?

When Shore is live, check for no pwoer at the inverter pins
When inverter is live, check for no power at shore pins

Buford T Justice · 27-02-2021 8:15pm

colm_mcm wrote: »

I think we have the same bed rails!

Your bed recesses are great. How much width does that give you?

I get 1.85 meters between the bed recesses.

28-02-2021 11:15am

I've been licking my wounds. I'd another €2.5k inverter sh1t the bed.. :eek:
sigh...

Buford T Justice wrote: »

Remove the double pole mcb that's the input for the inverter and go direct to the RCBO instead

You can't protect against overcurrent on an inverter output. They can't supply the power...it's not like the grid where a short circuit has the ESB Network to throw at the circuit breaker.
Earth leakage is all you need. RCBO, RCD..whichever.

Buford T Justice wrote: »

neutral out of the inverter to the earth of the van (chassis), most likely at the output point of the RCBO above

Earth to the neutral of the generator upstream of the RCD. In this case, the inverter. The earth is connected to the van chassis but that's further downstream and tangental.
You're making a fault path that will create an imbalance on the RCD and enable it to trip if there's an issue.
Shore power will already be neutralized so make sure your inverter neutralisation point is exclusive to inverter operation ie. upstream of the changeover contactor.

Buford T Justice wrote: »

Earth output & body of inverter to van chassis
Earth the consumer unit to the van chassis

When you say van chassis it ought to be the earth bus. The chassis and all metalwork with a mains appliances are connected to that earth bus.

Buford T Justice wrote: »

What's the benefit of the delay timer?

Gauranteed break before make. It stops you creating 400v from contact arcs in places you don't want.

Quote:
Check for continuity between live and van shell & neutral and van shell too with the system unpowered. Should be neither if you're floating earth.

Buford T Justice wrote: »

Are you referring to the final 240 supply feeding to the sockets to check?

You checked you have mains and inverter at the outputs.
You also need to check that you don't have inverter and mains at their counterparts inputs.

ie. no mains at the inverter output upstream of the changover and no inverter at the EHU pins upstream of the contactor.

Buford T Justice · 28-02-2021 7:05pm

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

I've been licking my wounds. I'd another €2.5k inverter sh1t the bed.. :eek:
sigh...

Ouch - I know that feeling, albeit on a much less expensive scale

Gauranteed break before make. It stops you creating 400v from contact arcs in places you don't want.

So the delay timer should be on the shore live into the changeover unit and not the coil?

Earth to the neutral of the generator upstream of the RCD. In this case, the inverter. The earth is connected to the van chassis but that's further downstream and tangental.
You're making a fault path that will create an imbalance on the RCD and enable it to trip if there's an issue.
Shore power will already be neutralized so make sure your inverter neutralisation point is exclusive to inverter operation ie. upstream of the changeover contactor.

Any concern with the fact that the neutrals from both supplies are tied together upstream of the contactor? (red circle in last diagram)?

You checked you have mains and inverter at the outputs.
You also need to check that you don't have inverter and mains at their counterparts inputs.

ie. no mains at the inverter output upstream of the changover and no inverter at the EHU pins upstream of the contactor.

I did check this already, as I know that this would be very bad, and it seems right. I've ordered those thermisters from RS, and I couldn't justify spending 4 quid online so I added a tester to it as well which can help.

I found an old 500w inverter in the shed that I'll be able to use to test this system fully. Just wanted to have a list of the things to do really.

28-02-2021 10:37pm

Buford T Justice wrote: »

Ouch - I know that feeling, albeit on a much less expensive scale

I paid a lot less for it. There's a replacement on the way.

Dunno what happened I'm chatting to the manufacturer. It died while synchronising & backfeeding the grid...certain death if it misses a beat at 50hz by 90° phase angle.

feckin yolk ate my hydronic system...:mad:

Buford T Justice wrote: »

So the delay timer should be on the shore live into the changeover unit and not the coil?

Do it on the coil it'll live longer and be lower current so cheaper.

Buford T Justice wrote: »

Any concern with the fact that the neutrals from both supplies are tied together upstream of the contactor? (red circle in last diagram)?

Yurp. Don't. That'll trip the shore power.
You'll have two neutralisation points if you do that. One on the shore supply upstream shore RCD and one at the inverter.

I generally don't share neutrals with power sources...just loads.

Buford T Justice wrote: »

I did check this already, as I know that this would be very bad, and it seems right. I've ordered those thermisters from RS, and I couldn't justify spending 4 quid online so I added a tester to it as well which can help.

They're a disaster since Brexit. If it's on backorder it'll be weeks or months longer than they say. Farnell are shipping from Germany. RS are still shipping via the Uk..."local distributor" me ar$e.

Buford T Justice · 28-02-2021 11:24pm

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Yurp. Don't. That'll trip the shore power.
You'll have two neutralisation points if you do that. One on the shore supply upstream shore RCD and one at the inverter.

I generally don't share neutrals with power sources...just loads.

I'm not sure as to how I can do this then. Out of the changeover I have two lives which are joined and two neutrals which are joined to feed into the single mcb for the sockets supply.

Not withstanding everything else, I should earth the body of the inverter to the neutral of the inverter supply
upstream of the mcb, but this will trip the shore power.

They're a disaster since Brexit. If it's on backorder it'll be weeks or months longer than they say. Farnell are shipping from Germany. RS are still shipping via the Uk..."local distributor" me ar$e.

I believe everything I ordered was in stock, but then again I ordered something from farnell too which was in stock that's now magically on backorder

01-03-2021 5:31am

Buford T Justice wrote: »

Any concern with the fact that the neutrals from both supplies are tied together upstream of the contactor? (red circle in last diagram)?

That's downstream. Bueno!

01-03-2021 5:36am

Buford T Justice wrote: »

Not withstanding everything else, I should earth the body of the inverter to the neutral of the inverter supply
upstream of the mcb, but this will trip the shore power.

Inverter Eath linked to Inverter ground and Inverter chassis and Inverter neutral and earth bus, therefore, vehicle chassis! Clear as mud? It won't trip.

Buford T Justice · 01-03-2021 10:28am

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Inverter Eath linked to Inverter ground and Inverter chassis and Inverter neutral and earth bus, therefore, vehicle chassis! Clear as mud? It won't trip.

Completely :pac::pac::pac:

01-03-2021 4:03pm

To be honest I've never seen anyone else do it right. Most people convince themselves it's too complicated to bother with and compromise safety. I'll draw it later.

Most vans can have an inverter live-earth fault run unflagged.

Buford T Justice · 01-03-2021 4:13pm

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

To be honest I've never seen anyone else do it right. Most people convince themselves it's too complicated to bother with and compromise safety. I'll draw it later.

Most vans can have an inverter live-earth fault run unflagged.

Appreciate it.

I've come too far at this point, I want to do it once and do it right.
I ordered those terminals to replace my busbars too. They'll be used to feed the inverter once I get my mits on one

01-03-2021 4:39pm

This is the result we are looking for with DC protection also.

I just spent €800 on replacement inverter smoke. :rolleyes:
Anyone wanna buy a 20kg boat anchor? I have a selection..:(

Buford T Justice wrote: »

Appreciate it.
I ordered those terminals to replace my busbars too.

These are more suitable.
That style in the picture are more single output like for connecting the Engine battery in the house electrics distribution.

I must start stocking terminal fuses.

terminal-fuse-jpg.459580

01-03-2021 10:36pm

Delay On, Delay Off Relay

Buford T Justice · 01-03-2021 11:34pm

Thanks for this - I appreciate it. It makes more sense now.

My local electrical factor has this, I assume it's the same - multi function timer relay.

What software are you using to draw the diagrams?

01-03-2021 11:43pm

Oops....the coil control above is for a Delay on relay. Delay On-Off is a little more involved.

Input voltage can be battery.
The trigger switch would have to be another relay with the coil powered from shore power and the switching dry contacts connected to the "S" on the delay relay.

01-03-2021 11:55pm

Buford T Justice wrote: »

My local electrical factor has this, I assume it's the same - multi function timer relay.

Dunno the Delay On - Delay Off in one package are hard to find and Schneider seem to be better than Garo I'm noticing.

Garo isn't very helpful, I can't find a datasheet that says what the functions of the multi-functional relay are..?

It implies it can delay-on and delay-off...I expect that means but not at the same time so get two.

Buford T Justice wrote: »

What software are you using to draw the diagrams?

Smartdraw but my "licence" for it has expired and it's expensive get a new one. I can't seem to find one of those made in Russia licenses.

02-03-2021 12:01am

thuther option is lose the delay and the two relays and just use one.

10A-8-pin-2-pole-ice-cube-plug-in-relay-with-220-240V-AC-coil_2048x.jpg

Not ideal either. If it breaks the compressor of the fridge firing the contacts will arc and might hurt the inverter.

The cheapest option is a centre off manual.

61u6m4s1U9L._SL1100_.jpg

Buford T Justice · 05-03-2021 2:28pm

Delivery fairy came this week, and was a busy boy err.... non gender specific person

I got a Dometic MO9222 Sink & hob combo with the sink on the left and accompanying tap to suit it

SunSaver MPPT arrived that I snaffled on Ebay (plus thermisters from RS)

Handbrake Lowering kit.

Oh, and I complained to the supplier about the "faulty" inverter and managed to blag myself a replacement. That arrived too. I just had to send the old back.

All in all, plenty to be getting on with.

Ford Transit conversion to camper MKII

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