Will you rejoin your club for next year

djr15 · 18-01-2021 10:44pm

To be fair it's not that simple.

A lot of people who can afford it won't join as they won't see the value for money.
Likewise a lot of people who are under financial pressure will sacrifice other things in order to join.

For me I can afford it, but would like to see a reduction in this years fee before rejoining.
If the reduction is pushed to next year I think it's an unfair way to reduce the fees as the lost golf time is this year and people's circumstances may be different next year.

That's my take on it.

finglashoop · 18-01-2021 11:10pm

djr15 wrote: »

To be fair it's not that simple.

A lot of people who can afford it won't join as they won't see the value for money.
Likewise a lot of people who are under financial pressure will sacrifice other things in order to join.

For me I can afford it, but would like to see a reduction in this years fee before rejoining.
If the reduction is pushed to next year I think it's an unfair way to reduce the fees as the lost golf time is this year and people's circumstances may be different next year.

That's my take on it.

agree with this although i can also see clubs point of view in reward/ incentive for people to keep up membership into future.

have to imagine will be big dropoff when other sports begin returning to action

djr15 · 18-01-2021 11:20pm

That is a concern alright.

I think clubs have to get creative as to how they attract and retain members.

With the recent increase in interest in the game they should be reinforcing the USPs it has to offer.
Golf Ireland need to step up here also.

It's a fantastic game for a wide range of ages and abilities and should be marketed as such.

Teaches some important life lessons like discipline and acceptance like a lot of sports/hobbies can't.
Great for the new generations.

Another thing worth mentioning is I think there needs to be a reset of green fees for he high end courses.
The next 18 months will see very few American visitors.

This should be seen as an opportunity to attract our own to play some of the top rated courses on our island.

golfguy1 · 18-01-2021 11:34pm

Another thing worth mentioning is I think there needs to be a reset of green fees for he high end courses.
The next 18 months will see very few American visitors.

This should be seen as an opportunity to attract our own to play some of the top rated courses on our island.[/quote]

and what would your reset be for high end courses?

djr15 · 18-01-2021 11:42pm

Cheers for the pointed question.

Anything above 120 for any of the courses in Ireland is insane at the best of times.(adare and potrmarnock apart as they seem to be in a league of their own)

When you consider the average annual fees in Ireland is roughly between 700-900 some of the green fees being charged are scandalous.

Of course the theory is the yanks won't play somewhere if the green fee is less than 100 quid.
And there seems to be an attraction for them when the fee is more again.

I guess if they are willing to pay let them off.

An Irish resident fee or GUI fee may be a work around.

youcancallmeal · 19-01-2021 10:01am

djr15 wrote: »

Another thing worth mentioning is I think there needs to be a reset of green fees for he high end courses.
The next 18 months will see very few American visitors.

This should be seen as an opportunity to attract our own to play some of the top rated courses on our island.

A friend works in the golf tourism industry and sorry to break it to you but there is absolutely no slow down in American visitors on the horizon. If anything it will be busier than ever this summer. I was wondering how he still had a job and he explained most bookings from last year were changed to this year(and 2022) and new bookings are coming in more than ever. I guess the Americans who can afford to come to Ireland for golf were not as affected financially from covid as low income people.

djr15 · 19-01-2021 10:13am

Firstly,

youcancallmeal wrote: »

sorry to break it to you

!!!!
FFS lads I'm not the grim reaper here....

I assumed restrictions would pave the way for reduced green fees for Irish golfers, looks like that won't be the case based on that reply.
Which clearly is good for the rural economy’s where a lot of the links courses are and i guess where the Americans etc. travel to.

There will still be many courses that never had the American visitor, they will depend on the annual membership being paid as it has been.
If there is a drop of in renewals, some of these will suffer greatly.

Benicetomonty · 19-01-2021 10:46am

youcancallmeal wrote: »

A friend works in the golf tourism industry and sorry to break it to you but there is absolutely no slow down in American visitors on the horizon. If anything it will be busier than ever this summer. I was wondering how he still had a job and he explained most bookings from last year were changed to this year(and 2022) and new bookings are coming in more than ever. I guess the Americans who can afford to come to Ireland for golf were not as affected financially from covid as low income people.

I think it's very unlikely all of those bookings will come to pass tbh. There will be no golf played by anybody in Ireland until March or possibly April, whether youre a local or a tourist. At the rate things are going, it will be next autumn before most of us are vaccinated and that means there will continue to be restrictions on things like travel and entertainment, possibly intermittently, until then.

Restrictions on people travelling from countries like the US who have made an absolute horlicks of the pandemic arent going anywhere anytime soon. There would be a massive outcry from the public (not just golfers) if these were somehow relaxed before things are somewhat normalised for residents, and that aint going to be before the summer. A lot of those lads will be deferring until 2022 at the earliest Id wager.

GreeBo · 19-01-2021 11:33am

djr15 wrote: »

To be fair it's not that simple.

It is though!
Note that I didn't say that anyone who could afford it will pay it, I said anyone who cant won't, but that I personally will.

A lot of people who can afford it won't join as they won't see the value for money.
Likewise a lot of people who are under financial pressure will sacrifice other things in order to join.

If you are under financial pressure then you cant afford it I would have said?

For me I can afford it, but would like to see a reduction in this years fee before rejoining.
If the reduction is pushed to next year I think it's an unfair way to reduce the fees as the lost golf time is this year and people's circumstances may be different next year.

That's my take on it.

I think expecting a drop in subs when there has been no drop in the clubs expenses and a huge drop in a clubs income is short-sighted and will only go one way. There aren't too many clubs who have artificially high subs imo.

Bill Ponderosa · 19-01-2021 11:49am

Big difference between being able to afford it and seeing the value in membership. If you're only going to get out 20 times for the rest of the year you're looking at 60e per round depending on the yearly sub. It's a no brainer if you're not playing that much.

golfguy1 · 19-01-2021 11:53am

djr15 wrote: »

Cheers for the pointed question.

Anything above 120 for any of the courses in Ireland is insane at the best of times.(adare and potrmarnock apart as they seem to be in a league of their own)

When you consider the average annual fees in Ireland is roughly between 700-900 some of the green fees being charged are scandalous.

Of course the theory is the yanks won't play somewhere if the green fee is less than 100 quid.
And there seems to be an attraction for them when the fee is more again.

I guess if they are willing to pay let them off.

An Irish resident fee or GUI fee may be a work around.

if you believe a green fee rate of €120ish (a 50% drop in most cases) for the top courses should happen,
do you also want all the lower end courses to drop fees by 50%.
for example if ballybunion drops to €120 should let's say Beaufort gc drop from €40ish to €20.
smaller clubs would go out of business fast
also annual membership fees at the top clubs are in a lot of the clubs much cheaper than the lower end courses.

djr15 · 19-01-2021 11:56am

golfguy1 wrote: »

do you also want all the lower end courses to drop fees by 50%.
.

No.

djr15 · 19-01-2021 12:05pm

Bill Ponderosa wrote: »

Big difference between being able to afford it and seeing the value in membership. If you're only going to get out 20 times for the rest of the year you're looking at 60e per round depending on the yearly sub. It's a no brainer if you're not playing that much.

This is actually the best way to assess it.
"value for money"

Membership in my own club is Jan to Dec - And that seems to be set in stone.
This paired with the way the lockdowns have fallen it might make it an easier decision not to re-join depending on when we get back out playing.

For several reasons my membership will only cost me a couple of hundred quid this year (vouchers etc.) so its all the one to me.

A take it or leave it approach with regards to membership fees is a slippery slope, I think.
Ok maybe not for big clubs or clubs around Dublin, but some rural clubs need a steady membership to stay alive.

In summary i think a dynamic/creative approach to membership may be needed in some cases. Sure, they depend on the small membership to keep them turning, but if some consumers feel like there should be a reduction in the annual fee they will walk away instead.

The take it or leave it approach is not something that sits well with me.

Glebee · 19-01-2021 1:36pm

If everyone in our club decided to give membership a miss for one year as it was not good value for money, there would be no club there to join in 2022.

bustercherry · 19-01-2021 1:50pm

djr15 wrote: »

Cheers for the pointed question.

Anything above 120 for any of the courses in Ireland is insane at the best of times.(adare and potrmarnock apart as they seem to be in a league of their own)

When you consider the average annual fees in Ireland is roughly between 700-900 some of the green fees being charged are scandalous.

Of course the theory is the yanks won't play somewhere if the green fee is less than 100 quid.
And there seems to be an attraction for them when the fee is more again.

I guess if they are willing to pay let them off.

An Irish resident fee or GUI fee may be a work around.

I'd love to know where these arbitrary price limits for courses come from?

There are plenty of top class courses that are priced under 120 but exceptional ones (that people travel the world over to play) repeatedly get singled out. Unfortunately the vast majority of golfers cannot justify (or afford) to play these exceptional courses but it's not as if they are short of quality alternatives.

djr15 · 19-01-2021 2:13pm

These "arbitrary" prices are just my opinion of the limit of a reasonable rate.

Again, my opinion is, if the prices aren't adjusted without the rich American visitors, these courses will have a quiet year.
But they may be happy not adjust to which is fine.

bustercherry · 19-01-2021 2:18pm

djr15 wrote: »

These "arbitrary" prices are just my opinion of the limit of a reasonable rate.

Again, my opinion is, if the prices aren't adjusted without the rich American visitors, these courses will have a quiet year.
But they may be happy not adjust to which is fine.

Opinions don't pay wages or maintain courses that to the standards people expect

djr15 · 19-01-2021 2:28pm

That's a pretty ridiculous thing to say.

By that logic we may as well shut down this site now seeing as a lot of what is on here is opinion.
All I am getting at is the Irish golfer will not make up the shortfall in dollars @ the high end courses unless pricing is adjusted.
And even if it is adjusted there will still be a loss compared to other years.

I don't see how that can be debated.

bustercherry · 19-01-2021 3:19pm

djr15 wrote: »

That's a pretty ridiculous thing to say.

By that logic we may as well shut down this site now seeing as a lot of what is on here is opinion.
All I am getting at is the Irish golfer will not make up the shortfall in dollars @ the high end courses unless pricing is adjusted.
And even if it is adjusted there will still be a loss compared to other years.

I don't see how that can be debated.

How? You opinion is baseless as you are stating how much you are prepared to pay for a product without knowing how much it costs to produce/maintain it. Also comparing the business model of an online discussion forum to a golf course is ludicrous.

Ultimately it will be up the courses to decide what they are willing to set their prices at. The irish golfer market can decide whether they want to play. No one is taxing golfers to maintain the courses.

djr15 · 19-01-2021 3:32pm

bustercherry wrote: »

How? You opinion is baseless as you are stating how much you are prepared to pay for a product without knowing how much it costs to produce/maintain it. Also comparing the business model of an online discussion forum to a golf course is ludicrous.

Ultimately it will be up the courses to decide what they are willing to set their prices at. The irish golfer market can decide whether they want to play. No one is taxing golfers to maintain the courses.

I don't need to know how much a place costs to maintain before having an opinion on what I feel is a reasonable green fee.
I can have an opinion with as little or as much information as I wish, and you can disagree with that opinion if you want.
I'm not sure where you are going with your point.

All I am saying (for maybe the 3rd or 4th time) Irish golfers won’t pay the same premium as US golfers.
For sure courses can set the pricing as they wish, but for me, if the US golfers aren’t traveling these courses will be quiet.

Not sure if you are trying to wind me up to be honest.

FixdePitchmark · 19-01-2021 3:34pm

djr15 wrote: »

I don't need to know how much a place costs to maintain before having an opinion on what I feel is a reasonable green fee.
I can have an opinion with as little or as much information as I wish, and you can disagree with that opinion if you want.
I'm not sure where you are going with your point.

All I am saying (for maybe the 3rd or 4th time) Irish golfers won’t pay the same premium as US golfers.
For sure courses can set the pricing as they wish, but for me, if the US golfers aren’t traveling these courses will be quiet.

Not sure if you are trying to wind me up to be honest.

Sorry - what has US golfer got to do with the question of this thread.

djr15 · 19-01-2021 3:41pm

It was a secondary point i made a few posts back but seems to have grown legs.

Other posters have engaged on the point and its not as if it is completely unrelated to the thread.

EDIT: and just to say it is related for the same reason club memberships will suffer this year as a result of covid.
Giving an opportunity for those same courses to open themselves to a new set of customers, i.e. Irish golfers.

billy3sheets · 19-01-2021 8:24pm

GreeBo wrote: »

It is though!
I think expecting a drop in subs when there has been no drop in the clubs expenses and a huge drop in a clubs income is short-sighted and will only go one way. There aren't too many clubs who have artificially high subs imo.

Well, surely all clubs will have reduced their expenses somewhat?

Less course maintenance - no bunkers to rake, pitchmarks/divots to repair, less wear and tear etc
Lower heat/light/electricity costs
Furloughed staff (in some cases)

Also, if a club has acquired say 20% additional members, I think it's reasonable to ask for a reduction in sub offset by this additional income.

Of course it all comes down to achieving a financial balance but I think clubs can find a way to soften the blow of more costly golf for members this year. Vouchers, credit on GUI card, green-fees credits, extended membership are all ways to achieve this through what is effectively deferred income.

pinkdoubleeagle · 20-01-2021 10:21am

You are also looking at a huge reduction is bar restaurant, green fee and society income in 2020 that needs to be accounted for

Ollieboy · 20-01-2021 1:32pm

pinkdoubleeagle wrote: »

You are also looking at a huge reduction is bar restaurant, green fee and society income in 2020 that needs to be accounted for

The drop in some revenue streams and the uncertainty is the major issue for clubs and the lack of financial supports.

It’s funny, people value membership on this forum a lot by the cost per round, but when the club are forced to closed a lot seem to move the goal posts.

In our club, members played 65% more rounds then 2019 even though we were closed for 3 months and I expect it to be similar figures if not higher in 2021. So this shows the true value members got, so why does clubs need to do rebates?

As for the conversation about reduce costs, most cost in most clubs is machinery, materials for course and labour. We’ve not reduced any of this cost during this lockdown and can’t really without damaging our product.

The clubhouse will be cheaper to run and savings on rates is the big saver here, but we were at full membership at the start of COVID so never got the bounce in new income and have not increase the rates for full membership.

GreeBo · 20-01-2021 3:54pm

billy3sheets wrote: »

Well, surely all clubs will have reduced their expenses somewhat?
Less course maintenance - no bunkers to rake, pitchmarks/divots to repair, less wear and tear etc

Lower heat/light/electricity costs

Furloughed staff (in some cases)

Also, if a club has acquired say 20% additional members, I think it's reasonable to ask for a reduction in sub offset by this additional income.

Of course it all comes down to achieving a financial balance but I think clubs can find a way to soften the blow of more costly golf for members this year. Vouchers, credit on GUI card, green-fees credits, extended membership are all ways to achieve this through what is effectively deferred income.

Bunkers are still being raked, thats what stops weeds etc from growing in them, its not just to make them be smooth/even.
I would say the vast majority of the costs are still in place (machinery maintenance/depreciation, course work, etc)
Sure you will have lower clubhouse costs, but I dont believe they are that significant in the scheme of things.

Again, some clubs will have furloughed staff but many havent.

Its only reasonable to look for a reduction if the club was in a sound financial position before those new members arrived. You also have to see how much money that actually generated. Otherwise you risk putting yourself right back into the same precarious financial position.

Commercial clubs might be able to soften the blow, but for a members club you are just robbing peter to pay paul, softening the blow means bigger and longer overdrafts which means increased subs or outings next year.

GreeBo · 20-01-2021 3:55pm

Ollieboy wrote: »

The drop in some revenue streams and the uncertainty is the major issue for clubs and the lack of financial supports.

It’s funny, people value membership on this forum a lot by the cost per round, but when the club are forced to closed a lot seem to move the goal posts.

In our club, members played 65% more rounds then 2019 even though we were closed for 3 months and I expect it to be similar figures if not higher in 2021. So this shows the true value members got, so why does clubs need to do rebates?

As for the conversation about reduce costs, most cost in most clubs is machinery, materials for course and labour. We’ve not reduced any of this cost during this lockdown and can’t really without damaging our product.

The clubhouse will be cheaper to run and savings on rates is the big saver here, but we were at full membership at the start of COVID so never got the bounce in new income and have not increase the rates for full membership.

Great point.
For many months our course was jammed (on 2 x 12 holes) to the point where getting out was a problem.
that has never been the case in any other year.

Having people working from home has dropped the cost per round significantly.

billy3sheets · 20-01-2021 5:28pm

Ollieboy wrote: »

The drop in some revenue streams and the uncertainty is the major issue for clubs and the lack of financial supports.

It’s funny, people value membership on this forum a lot by the cost per round, but when the club are forced to closed a lot seem to move the goal posts.

In our club, members played 65% more rounds then 2019 even though we were closed for 3 months and I expect it to be similar figures if not higher in 2021. So this shows the true value members got, so why does clubs need to do rebates?

As for the conversation about reduce costs, most cost in most clubs is machinery, materials for course and labour. We’ve not reduced any of this cost during this lockdown and can’t really without damaging our product.

The clubhouse will be cheaper to run and savings on rates is the big saver here, but we were at full membership at the start of COVID so never got the bounce in new income and have not increase the rates for full membership.

Cost-per-round is definitely a valid value metric. It's not the only one. I don't get your point about moving goal-posts?

Regarding members played 65% more rounds than 2019 - how did you calculate this? Is it 65% more rounds overall were played? I would imagine this is not equally distributed? Like some members played 300% more golf because they were off work while others played 60% of their normal rounds because the course was closed. This is certainly the case among my golf buddies.

blue note · 20-01-2021 5:58pm

I remember hearing that members played more in 2020 than 2019, even though the course was unavailable to them for many weeks. I was surprised to hear it, but when I thought about it of course it's true.

Whether courses should give something back to their members largely depends on whether or not they can afford it. It's all well and good to say that the course was available to me less, therefore I should get money back. But at the same time, you probably didn't play it less. So you can't really argue you didn't get your moneys worth. And courses will often not be open due to weather. Should members get a few extra days for free the following year?

If clubs can afford it then I think they probably should give something back, as a token reward for the member loyalty. But I wouldn't be expecting a big reduction in my membership fees or anything.

pinkdoubleeagle · 20-01-2021 6:04pm

GreeBo wrote: »

Great point.
For many months our course was jammed (on 2 x 12 holes) to the point where getting out was a problem.
that has never been the case in any other year.

Having people working from home has dropped the cost per round significantly.

What is your club doing to combat this when the club reopens in Spring and demand is high.

My club has decided to cut down on society bookings for the forseeable future, Increase the subs to account for the lost society revenue and free up the course for the members

blue note · 20-01-2021 6:14pm

Not every course is in a position where they can do that. Some have probably gone through their reserves and might be borrowing to keep the show on the road. And if they were struggling before all of this, then reducing their take from societies and the like is just accepting a slow death.

I'm sure we'd all love our courses to keep the timesheet for members. While at the same time expecting other courses to offer reduced gui rates so that we can play their courses for affordable prices. But it's more complicated than that.

dan_ep82 · 20-01-2021 6:26pm

Whether or not clubs should feel obliged to give something back or not may be irrelevant. If the majority of members leave the course closes. For some that idea may be enough to stay but most won't be pressured into staying for various reasons. They have to be enticed to stay somehow.

I presume Ollieboy and a few others are on a committee of some sort as he passionately defends the reasons for hard decisions and explains the hardships courses are going through. Unfortunately many club members don't have access to this kind of information. Alot of clubs seem to have pulled the blanket over their heads until this blows over.

While they may not be in a situation to/ or feel the need to offer some kind of refund/deal they could be keeping members informed what is happenign and why and what their plan is for when everything opens up. A bi weekly short pdate with a picture or two of the course to keep people interested and invested. Reach out to the members to get a feel of what way their membership is leaning. Ask for input. Anything to keep the lines of communication and interaction open.

Don't just sit back and wait and see how it falls after or you could be just as easily closing the doors saying you never thought it would happen.

hurikane · 20-01-2021 6:56pm

The truth is, there will be people who simply can’t afford it. It’d be great if clubs could do something for these people to keep them on board, it’d be impossible to police though. You would have the mercenaries who bounce from club to club looking for the best deal trying to take advantage.

Ollieboy · 20-01-2021 7:32pm

dan_ep82 wrote: »

Whether or not clubs should feel obliged to give something back or not may be irrelevant. If the majority of members leave the course closes. For some that idea may be enough to stay but most won't be pressured into staying for various reasons. They have to be enticed to stay somehow.

I presume Ollieboy and a few others are on a committee of some sort as he passionately defends the reasons for hard decisions and explains the hardships courses are going through. Unfortunately many club members don't have access to this kind of information. Alot of clubs seem to have pulled the blanket over their heads until this blows over.

While they may not be in a situation to/ or feel the need to offer some kind of refund/deal they could be keeping members informed what is happenign and why and what their plan is for when everything opens up. A bi weekly short pdate with a picture or two of the course to keep people interested and invested. Reach out to the members to get a feel of what way their membership is leaning. Ask for input. Anything to keep the lines of communication and interaction open.

Don't just sit back and wait and see how it falls after or you could be just as easily closing the doors saying you never thought it would happen.

This is my 4th year as Chairman and I was Treasurer for 3 years before that, so yes your right.

I share all the data with our members.

I gave them reports this year showing exactly how many rounds each category played compared to last year. I also shared the course utilization reports by day by category.

Each member can access our system and see exactly how many rounds they played by week, month or year. They can see where they spend there funds by area and stats by hole.

I was heavily involved in our club bail a few years ago because of my financial background and I’m very aware how these can go wrong quickly with poor management in a club.

I know our members got value in 2020 and will get value this year. Most that complain played more golf last year but didn’t realise it.

We arranged a gift for everyone that signs up this year, free green fees and an appreciation day which will be massive. That’s the best way for our club to thank our members without cutting back on expenditure.

But this year we will spend 175k on new machinery, 85k on new practice facilities, about 25k on new sheds, 15k on a new swing room and about 15k to 50k extra on course maintenance.

None of this is possible without members but members that don’t show loyalty will miss out as we are full and have a massive waiting list.

My advice to anyone, rejoin because I think demand will be massive this year.

Green Peter · 21-01-2021 2:29am

Ollieboy wrote: »

This is my 4th year as Chairman and I was Treasurer for 3 years before that, so yes your right.

I share all the data with our members.

I gave them reports this year showing exactly how many rounds each category played compared to last year. I also shared the course utilization reports by day by category.

Each member can access our system and see exactly how many rounds they played by week, month or year. They can see where they spend there funds by area and stats by hole.

I was heavily involved in our club bail a few years ago because of my financial background and I’m very aware how these can go wrong quickly with poor management in a club.

I know our members got value in 2020 and will get value this year. Most that complain played more golf last year but didn’t realise it.

We arranged a gift for everyone that signs up this year, free green fees and an appreciation day which will be massive. That’s the best way for our club to thank our members without cutting back on expenditure.

But this year we will spend 175k on new machinery, 85k on new practice facilities, about 25k on new sheds, 15k on a new swing room and about 15k to 50k extra on course maintenance.

None of this is possible without members but members that don’t show loyalty will miss out as we are full and have a massive waiting list.

My advice to anyone, rejoin because I think demand will be massive this year.

I've been on management committees and know the ins and out of the running of a golf club, I will pay my membership again this year but I do think clubs are not going to hold on to members if they charge the full amount. Its a balance but even a months reduction in fees might help persuade members to stay on.

Ollieboy · 21-01-2021 8:47am

Green Peter wrote: »

I've been on management committees and know the ins and out of the running of a golf club, I will pay my membership again this year but I do think clubs are not going to hold on to members if they charge the full amount. Its a balance but even a months reduction in fees might help persuade members to stay on.

But where do you expect this money to come from? Clubs can’t have zero cost for a month, they don’t want to go into debt and most don’t have bank facilities that enable this and members expect and want a top quality product.

If clubs gave a rebate, they will have to increase subs the following year and that’s even worse because subs never come back down.

A lot of clubs I spoke to put it to the members at the AGMs ie. Reduction in subs for 2021 and every single members club voted against it. They understand it will endanger the club and not the responsible thing to do and will mean higher subs the year after to regain that income.

What we done gives members over €100 back for last year on average but will cost the club about 25 to 30.

GreeBo · 21-01-2021 1:58pm

pinkdoubleeagle wrote: »

What is your club doing to combat this when the club reopens in Spring and demand is high.

My club has decided to cut down on society bookings for the forseeable future, Increase the subs to account for the lost society revenue and free up the course for the members

It was all just members anyway back then, even members just within 5k due to our suburban location, so really not that much more they can do.

It will stay at 2 x 12 hole courses so that helps a lot, but after than it depends on what the restrictions are around 2/3/4 balls and the mandatory gaps between groups.

They did ask people to not book more than 3 times a week as we had lots of people playing 7+ times a week during the summer which wasnt great.

GreeBo · 21-01-2021 2:00pm

dan_ep82 wrote: »

Whether or not clubs should feel obliged to give something back or not may be irrelevant. If the majority of members leave the course closes. For some that idea may be enough to stay but most won't be pressured into staying for various reasons. They have to be enticed to stay somehow.

I presume Ollieboy and a few others are on a committee of some sort as he passionately defends the reasons for hard decisions and explains the hardships courses are going through. Unfortunately many club members don't have access to this kind of information. Alot of clubs seem to have pulled the blanket over their heads until this blows over.

While they may not be in a situation to/ or feel the need to offer some kind of refund/deal they could be keeping members informed what is happenign and why and what their plan is for when everything opens up. A bi weekly short pdate with a picture or two of the course to keep people interested and invested. Reach out to the members to get a feel of what way their membership is leaning. Ask for input. Anything to keep the lines of communication and interaction open.

Don't just sit back and wait and see how it falls after or you could be just as easily closing the doors saying you never thought it would happen.

During the last lockdown we had regular vlogs from the course showing what the lads were working on, was pretty good to keep people involved and keep the excitement up, was tough to watch as the course dried out and became firmer but still closed

slingerz · 24-01-2021 12:30am

Will I rejoin? Most likely. Will I consider the value that my membership provides? Absolutely.

I don’t believe my club are providing a product that provides value for money. Is in average to below average condition on too regular basis while being ‘soft’ for 6 months of the year.

Can see courses in the locality that are more expensive providing a superior product which may justify moving however.

We have no offer to acknowledge the restrictions and the lack of playing time

seanl77 · 24-01-2021 11:46am

Made the decision not to rejoin my club this year, for a number of different reasons. To be honest I think my local club has been an absolute disaster zone since the beginning of the pandemic. I work in a retail setting, and obviously have been very busy so a round of golf on a day off is a real treat. Unfortunately the club has been constantly booked out with the same names at the same times daily, the limit on golf has been ignored by most members unfortunately. Basically this resulted in lots of members being unable to get a tee time but was still ignored by the club as an issue. No reduction in membership fees or even a token gesture has been made during the covid crisis. No restaurant in the club for well over a year due to the previous catering leaving, so I had to ask myself is the membership fee providing any value for money? The answer is a definite no, so made the decision a lot easier to leave

frink · 25-01-2021 3:48pm

I'm taking a Leave of Absence from my club for 12 months. I understand that my GUI handicap gets suspended for this period.

Is there anything stopping me from joining somewhere else as a distance member to maintain this

Golfhead65 · 25-01-2021 4:07pm

frink wrote: »

I'm taking a Leave of Absence from my club for 12 months. I understand that my GUI handicap gets suspended for this period.

Is there anything stopping me from joining somewhere else as a distance member to maintain this

Nothing at all, Just check our some clubs options

hurikane · 25-01-2021 4:29pm

frink wrote: »

I'm taking a Leave of Absence from my club for 12 months. I understand that my GUI handicap gets suspended for this period.

Is there anything stopping me from joining somewhere else as a distance member to maintain this

You may have to rejoin as a new member in your current club? Not sure how it works now with Golf Ireland, will your current club have to issue a handicap cert? Or do they transfer you on Golf Ireland? If it’s either of those, they will be aware and if there’s a waiting list for membership, you may be at back of queue next year?

frink · 25-01-2021 5:05pm

hurikane wrote: »

You may have to rejoin as a new member in your current club? Not sure how it works now with Golf Ireland, will your current club have to issue a handicap cert? Or do they transfer you on Golf Ireland? If it’s either of those, they will be aware and if there’s a waiting list for membership, you may be at back of queue next year?

Thanks for letting me know. I will look into this with Golf Ireland and the club and come back to this thread for anyone else in the same position.

Without sounding arrogant, I am in the right age range that the club I am member of badly needs so hoping that I don't get dropped to the back of the queue!

In any event, it is 50/50 whether I rejoin next year as I am relocating temporarily, with a view to making it permanent and I don't know where I would live in Dublin if it doesn't work out.

GreeBo · 25-01-2021 6:05pm

If its a leave of absence then I assume you are still a member, just no playing rights and no sub?
In work terms, you would keep your seniority when you return?

If not, then you are also at risk of there being a joining fee when you do return...

frink · 25-01-2021 6:36pm

My membership reverts to a Pavilion membership for the year. I'll be re-admitted the following year if there is available space in my category of membership at that time.

DeanAustin · 25-01-2021 6:48pm

Ollieboy wrote: »

But where do you expect this money to come from? Clubs can’t have zero cost for a month, they don’t want to go into debt and most don’t have bank facilities that enable this and members expect and want a top quality product.

If clubs gave a rebate, they will have to increase subs the following year and that’s even worse because subs never come back down.

A lot of clubs I spoke to put it to the members at the AGMs ie. Reduction in subs for 2021 and every single members club voted against it. They understand it will endanger the club and not the responsible thing to do and will mean higher subs the year after to regain that income.

What we done gives members over €100 back for last year on average but will cost the club about 25 to 30.

My club gave some pretty decent benefits this year given the situation over the last year. Apparently a lot of members were complaining that they didn't get a full rebate for the time(s) the course was closed. The argument being that a golf club should be the same as something like a gym (i.e. if closed, membership should be suspended and roll over).

I'm scratching my head at that one to be honest. The cost of running a golf club is a lot more than a gym if the facilities aren't being used by members. To me, the complaints smack of opportunism. What we were offered (an additional ~10% off the fee as well as other benefits) I thought was very reasonable. Sure, it doesn't "compensate" me for all the time lost last year but it's a global pandemic. This isn't a zero sum game where the club benefits if I lose - we're all losing. So, for me, everyone has to suck it up a bit and take a bit of a loss.

dan_ep82 · 25-01-2021 6:57pm

Just at the end of last week I got a letter from the club with some numbers and if you pay in full on time €50 in bar credit.

I'd like to think most people would forefit a discount etc if it meant the green keepers were kept fulltime or near fulltime. Because I don't use the bar or restaurant I usually give whats on it to the greenskeepers at the end of the year for their christmas party.

redzerdrog · 25-01-2021 7:26pm

Be interesting to see what impact this has on my own club.

When I joined I bought a share (pretty much hello money) however with 150+ new members last year who didn't have to buy shares will they stick around now with the course closed so much. Also no concessions being offered, actually existing members where even hit with an extra 200euro levy last year.

To be honest I know it selfish but I'd take a price increase if it freed up some extra space on the timesheet

DeanAustin · 25-01-2021 8:19pm

redzerdrog wrote: »

Be interesting to see what impact this has on my own club.

When I joined I bought a share (pretty much hello money) however with 150+ new members last year who didn't have to buy shares will they stick around now with the course closed so much. Also no concessions being offered, actually existing members where even hit with an extra 200euro levy last year.

To be honest I know it selfish but I'd take a price increase if it freed up some extra space on the timesheet

Don't think that's selfish at all. It's the people who want more spaces on the timesheet and a big concession that I find a bit selfish.

Will you rejoin your club for next year

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