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Letting agency gave back Deposit wrongly?

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  • 22-08-2019 9:16am
    #1
    flexcon
    Registered Users Posts: 1,621 ✭✭✭


    Hi People of boards. Appreciate any advice or replies given.

    I have a query over the practice of handing back deposit etc.


    Timeline:
    August 2018 - GF moves into a 2-bed apartment taking over someone else's place - sharing with the one other person.

    (Letting agency advised for her to pay the person moving out the cash for deposit and GF name is added to the lease - everyone agrees it's the easiest thing)

    July 2019 - Letting agency advises landlord wants to sell - 6 months notice given.
    August 2019 - GF flatmate finds a new place( she is panicking that she may not find somewhere to live in 6 months.) GF cannot move in with her since its way to much money for her to afford. They agree to part ways, and she is moving out right away.

    15th August - Unannounced visit to the house from letting agency. They literally walked right in to do an inspection so the previous flatmate can hand back keys and they can check for damage for the deposit to be returned. (Note the rent period ended on the 12th of Aug)

    16th Aug - GF rings letting agency and is told " she must pay all of the rent still right until she moves out" even though they refunded "Part" of the deposit.


    So it comes to this.

    Is this normal and acceptable?
    Should my GF not have inherited the full deposit since the Tenancy is equal on both sides. It is not a room let but a full house, standard Tenancy. Both parties in the house treated equally.

    Did the letting agency and ex-flatmate trespass on to the rental since no communication was given by the agency to GF, and the ex-flatmate had at this point not paid rent - yet still had keys(refused to give keys to GF - only to agency)

    Sorry if this doesn't flow very well - I am going to speak to the agency on her behalf tomorrow but needed a soundboard to see if I am totally wrong on all of this.


Comments

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    #2
    Varik
    Registered Users Posts: 12,500 ✭✭✭✭Varik


    So on 12th she payed her half but not full rent, and on the 15th flatmate and agent arrived. Deposit doesn't matter, it's when she was take off lease, and since your GF hasn't paid full rent yet (by 15 at least) she's not exclusive tenant. So it could be argued other tenant let in agent, and from reading on this forum you see that not paying rent does't excluded someone from being a tenant.

    Considering you did't have exclusive use of the property until other tenant was removed from lease (16th?), would argue you're not liable for full rent up to that point. If LL is happy to hold onto only half the full deposit leave it.

    Only really a few euro in it, but a pound saved and all that.

    When talking to them try to lead the conversation, was other flatmate on lease for this month or until that date when asking about the visit.


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    #3
    flexcon
    Registered Users Posts: 1,621 ✭✭✭flexcon


    Varik wrote: »
    So on 12th she payed her half but not full rent, and on the 15th flatmate and agent arrived. Deposit doesn't matter, it's when she was take off lease, and since your GF hasn't paid full rent yet (by 15 at least) she's not exclusive tenant. So it could be argued other tenant let in agent, and from reading on this forum you see that not paying rent does't excluded someone from being a tenant.

    Considering you did't have exclusive use of the property until other tenant was removed from lease (16th?), would argue you're not liable for full rent up to that point. If LL is happy to hold onto only half the full deposit leave it.

    Only really a few euro in it, but a pound saved and all that.

    When talking to them try to lead the conversation, was other flatmate on lease for this month or until that date when asking about the visit.

    Thanks for the reply.

    So the rent was paid by the ex-flatmate every month in full. GF sent the funds to the ex-flatmate each month 600 each- so letting agency received one payment

    So GF is now paying the FULL rent since the 13th of Aug. Visit happened on the 15th. 1200. Not the 600 she was sharing equally before. Letting agency has said she must pay the FULL 1200 even after everything has happened.


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    #4
    Old diesel
    Registered Users Posts: 5,788 ✭✭✭Old diesel


    flexcon wrote: »
    Thanks for the reply.

    So the rent was paid by the ex-flatmate every month in full. GF sent the funds to the ex-flatmate each month 600 each- so letting agency received one payment

    So GF is now paying the FULL rent since the 13th of Aug. Visit happened on the 15th. 1200. Not the 600 she was sharing equally before. Letting agency has said she must pay the FULL 1200 even after everything has happened.

    It's because the WHOLE apartment is being rented.

    Previously with two people sharing it was 600 a month each.

    Now she's there on her own and is thus liable for full 1200.

    The partial deposit is for the person leaving and doesn't change anything imo.


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    #5
    flexcon
    Registered Users Posts: 1,621 ✭✭✭flexcon


    Old diesel wrote: »
    It's because the WHOLE apartment is being rented.

    Previously with two people sharing it was 600 a month each.

    Now she's there on her own and is thus liable for full 1200.

    The partial deposit is for the person leaving and doesn't change anything imo.

    So this is the argument I had put back to me, makes sense except for one part I don't understand

    1)Why would a letting agency give back half a deposit when the full house is still liable to damage?Is that not an own goal?
    2)The deposit is €1200 which was paid in full to the letting agency on day one. Not two €600 transactions. The letting agency would have no knowledge of the internal decisions of the household on the split of the rent or deposit( one room maybe €700 the other €500) In this case the ex flatmate has taken €700 and not the €600 that she would be eligible for. So now there is €500 left in the "pot" not €600 that was given to the previous tenant the gf took over from. Letting agency have said not their issue, and to sort it out civilly with the ex flatmate.

    Does that make sense?

    Maybe my emotional attachment to the gf is giving me fog glasses but it seems odd.


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    #6
    wench
    Registered Users Posts: 1,630 ✭✭✭wench


    Did your gf have the 600 ready to give the other housemate, or how did she expect this was going to work?


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    #7
    flexcon
    Registered Users Posts: 1,621 ✭✭✭flexcon


    wench wrote: »
    Did your gf have the 600 ready to give the other housemate, or how did she expect this was going to work?

    Well, see this is the thing. None of my GF concern surely?. It is the other girl moving out to sort that out. She decided to move out immediately and since she did not even bother to actively look for someone to replace her and has left my GF with the full RENT of 1200 - she forgoes her deposit then no? She moved out while still in an equal tenancy. This Girl does not have a higher place in the hierarchy in the contract or the rental property. I thought that this is part of the reason for a deposit

    Like this girl has just packed up and left and managed to do this without any penalty with the support of the letting agency - even though in normal circumstances the girl moving out forfeits her tenancy contract by just upping and leaving. I wasn't aware in an equal tenancy the other party can just do this and actually get a defined partial deposit back from the agency, that doesn't exist in any sort of writing anywhere,

    PS- thanks for the replies. I'll contact threshold for clarification on some points mentioned here. No doubt the emotions are running high with it all, I'm well aware of it


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    #8
    TheShow
    Registered Users Posts: 1,157 ✭✭✭TheShow


    The rent for the apartment is €1200 pm. Either she finds someone to share or she pays the full rent.
    The rent was paid in full up to now and inspection confirmed no damage, so the other person got their deposit back.

    its unfortunate situation but nothing wrong with what has occured here.


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    #9
    flexcon
    Registered Users Posts: 1,621 ✭✭✭flexcon


    TheShow wrote: »
    The rent for the apartment is €1200 pm. Either she finds someone to share or she pays the full rent.
    The rent was paid in full up to now and inspection confirmed no damage, so the other person got their deposit back.

    its unfortunate situation but nothing wrong with what has occured here.


    Thanks for that. On the point of their deposit back. That doesn't seem to exist, however. There isn't their deposit, its the house. there isn't girl A and Girl B deposit. It does not exist.

    And even at that, they gave her back €700, not €600. THey basically just believed everything that was said by this girl on the day when handing back the keys. In this case, my GF will be short €100 in the deposit when the time comes to it. What happens here?

    I just moved into a new place today as it happens, signed a contract last week and they made that point very clear - deposit is on the house and not per individual. On refund of deposit at end of term- the whole amount is returned to my account to myself and it is between us to work out the induvial refunds. We are all equally liable for damage in the house, not per individual.

    Again thanks for the response.


    If I am totally wrong what I am hearing back so far is this: Applying the logic discussed above

    In my current rental - if I decide to just pack and leave one month _ I can. And I get to call into the office on the way backhand in my key and get my deposit back. I'll tell them my "portion" is €1000 and bobs your uncle? Of course, the flatmates need to cover my loss since I just left, but I was under the strong impression - I give up my deposit here. I can't take out my deposit since it's a solid hold on the tenancy of the house - not as individual.


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    #10
    TheShow
    Registered Users Posts: 1,157 ✭✭✭TheShow


    The agent you are using seems to have a better process for it indeed and much less hassle for them. There are no rules governing how deposits are managed.

    Does your GF have a receipt for €600 deposit she paid, if she has then they must give her back the full amount she paid. Maybe the other girl paid €700? If the other person received extra deposit back then your GF should raise this with the agent and the former tenant


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    #11
    cruizer101
    Registered Users Posts: 3,205 ✭✭✭cruizer101


    I do wonder could the previous tenant have only given a 500 deposit but decided when they got the 600 from your gf to just pocket it.
    Who told her it was 600.
    Is it possible the tenant that just moved out had been paying 700 and the tenant before your gf 500, but when your gf moved in they decided to charge her 600.


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    #12
    flexcon
    Registered Users Posts: 1,621 ✭✭✭flexcon


    TheShow wrote: »
    The agent you are using seems to have a better process for it indeed and much less hassle for them. There are no rules governing how deposits are managed.

    Does your GF have a receipt for €600 deposit she paid, if she has then they must give her back the full amount she paid. Maybe the other girl paid €700? If the other person received extra deposit back then your GF should raise this with the agent and the former tenant
    cruizer101 wrote: »
    I do wonder could the previous tenant have only given a 500 deposit but decided when they got the 600 from your gf to just pocket it.
    Who told her it was 600.
    Is it possible the tenant that just moved out had been paying 700 and the tenant before your gf 500, but when your gf moved in they decided to charge her 600.

    Thanks for the response.

    Yeah, I am going to call in tomorrow and find out exactly what's going on now.


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    #13
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,317 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Open an AirBnB account stick up the other room rent it out for a few nights till you get €600, repeat following month, or just keep renting it out fir the few months before she moves


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    #14
    Marcusm
    Registered Users Posts: 10,217 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    flexcon wrote: »
    Hi People of boards. Appreciate any advice or replies given.

    I have a query over the practice of handing back deposit etc.


    Timeline:
    August 2018 - GF moves into a 2-bed apartment taking over someone else's place - sharing with the one other person.

    (Letting agency advised for her to pay the person moving out the cash for deposit and GF name is added to the lease - everyone agrees it's the easiest thing)

    July 2019 - Letting agency advises landlord wants to sell - 6 months notice given.
    August 2019 - GF flatmate finds a new place( she is panicking that she may not find somewhere to live in 6 months.) GF cannot move in with her since its way to much money for her to afford. They agree to part ways, and she is moving out right away.

    15th August - Unannounced visit to the house from letting agency. They literally walked right in to do an inspection so the previous flatmate can hand back keys and they can check for damage for the deposit to be returned. (Note the rent period ended on the 12th of Aug)

    16th Aug - GF rings letting agency and is told " she must pay all of the rent still right until she moves out" even though they refunded "Part" of the deposit.


    So it comes to this.

    Is this normal and acceptable?
    Should my GF not have inherited the full deposit since the Tenancy is equal on both sides. It is not a room let but a full house, standard Tenancy. Both parties in the house treated equally.

    Did the letting agency and ex-flatmate trespass on to the rental since no communication was given by the agency to GF, and the ex-flatmate had at this point not paid rent - yet still had keys(refused to give keys to GF - only to agency)

    Sorry if this doesn't flow very well - I am going to speak to the agency on her behalf tomorrow but needed a soundboard to see if I am totally wrong on all of this.
    Based on what you have said here, the letting agency has acted poorly. Each of the occupants is responsible for the rent jointly, perhaps also severally. Having given 6 months notice and permitted the other flatmate to leave, I find it difficult that your flatmate should be liable and not the other tenant also. There is little practical prospect of your GF getting a replacement tenant for such a short period. The letting agency should treat both people equally, ie if they are willing to absolve the departing flatmate of her obligation to pay the rent they are in a difficult position to seek to enforce it against your GF.


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    #15
    Baby01032012
    Registered Users Posts: 1,622 ✭✭✭Baby01032012


    You are both jointly and severely liable for the whole rent of the apartment. Your lease obligations start and end together. Her flat mate even though she has left is still liable. Like side your gf is liable for the whole apartments rent etc if her flat mate decides not to pay.


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