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PRTB

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    #32
    star_spotter
    Site Banned Posts: 18 ✭star_spotter


    beauf wrote: »
    Its all paid for by rent. So indirectly the tenants pay for it. The PRTB seems ok in minor disputes. But seems powerless to protect the LL from large losses. Arguably it makes these losses worse. The LL will recover this from rent. So the tenants will also be impacted by the lack of protection for LL from the PRTB.

    how will the landlord recover anything from rent when rent is frozen for two full years , this move will deter many from letting out properties , im of mind to now sell on what i only bought two months ago


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    #33
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    star_spotter wrote: »
    ....i bought an apartment three weeks before this came in....
    star_spotter wrote: »
    how will the landlord recover anything....im of mind to now sell on what i only bought two months ago

    If you bought into this business without a long term plan and doing the research yes you should.

    Tenants can now look forward to guaranteed rent increase that will be to the max at that time. It will be a jump of 2yrs rent maybe more if it was below the market rate previously. LL no longer has control to do it in smaller increments. If you make any losses in the meanwhile there's no other way to get it back as the PRTB is toothless for LL's.


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    #34
    star_spotter
    Site Banned Posts: 18 ✭star_spotter


    beauf wrote: »
    If you bought into this business without a long term plan and doing the research yes you should.

    Tenants can now look forward to guaranteed rent increase that will be to the max at that time. It will be a jump of 2yrs rent maybe more if it was below the market rate previously. LL no longer has control to do it in smaller increments. If you make any losses in the meanwhile there's no other way to get it back as the PRTB is toothless for LL's.

    how was i to know what minister kelly would do only three weeks after the hammer fell at auction

    do you think i will not be able to increase the rent until march 2017 , i only discovered afterwards ( as it was a receivership sale so information was scarce ) that a tenancy was officailly in place since march of this year


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    #35
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    star_spotter wrote: »
    how was i to know what minister kelly would do only three weeks after the hammer fell at auction

    do you think i will not be able to increase the rent until march 2017 , i only discovered afterwards ( as it was a receivership sale so information was scarce ) that a tenancy was officailly in place since march of this year

    So there was insufficient due diligence and the downside is you miss out one rent review. Sounds, like you were quite lucky.


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    #36
    star_spotter
    Site Banned Posts: 18 ✭star_spotter


    Graham wrote: »
    So there was insufficient due diligence and the downside is you miss out one rent review. Sounds, like you were quite lucky.

    what due dilligence , what are you on about ?

    again , how was i to know what kelly would do ? , its not like i was charging the tenant money several months ago , i have not got a days rent off them as of yet

    do you understand the nature of receivership sales , you dont always know the full story , i had the contract checked by my solicitor , everything was ok , at that stage the tenancy being in place was irrelevant

    kelly changed everything


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    #37
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    star_spotter wrote: »
    what due dilligence , what are you on about ?

    again , how was i to know what kelly would do ? , its not like i was charging the tenant money several months ago , i have not got a days rent off them as of yet

    do you understand the nature of receivership sales , you dont always know the full story , i had the contract checked by my solicitor , everything was ok , at that stage the tenancy being in place was irrelevant

    kelly changed everything

    Would it be safe to assume you bought at a discount to take into account the fact you didn't know the full story. Regardless, the changes you're upset about would only equate to missing a single rent review.

    If you're not getting any rent at the moment a rent review is surely the least of your worries.

    I'm not sure how we got onto this from a discussion about the PRTB.


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    #38
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    All the media, online, paper, and TV have been full of talk about controlling rises for a couple of years now.

    If you are buying a place that has tenants, the details of that tenancy would have to be one of the primary concerns. If not....


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    #39
    star_spotter
    Site Banned Posts: 18 ✭star_spotter


    Graham wrote: »
    Would it be safe to assume you bought at a discount to take into account the fact you didn't know the full story. Regardless, the changes you're upset about would only equate to missing a single rent review.

    If you're not getting any rent at the moment a rent review is surely the least of your worries.

    I'm not sure how we got onto this from a discussion about the PRTB.

    no i didnt get it at a discount , i bought it at an auction , i viewed the property in advance , nothing shady about it , sorry to disapoint you

    im not entitled to any rent yet , i just took full ownership , the rent is way below market however , obviously the receiver was happy to get anything while arranging sale and a rent review took place earlier in the year , this information was not available to me prior to auction as i did not have the prtb tenancy document

    surely you can see that minister kellys changes have effected many people who were not ripping anyone off


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    #40
    star_spotter
    Site Banned Posts: 18 ✭star_spotter


    beauf wrote: »
    All the media, online, paper, and TV have been full of talk about controlling rises for a couple of years now.

    If you are buying a place that has tenants, the details of that tenancy would have to be one of the primary concerns. If not....

    details of a tenancy were not an issue in the past

    how long do tenancys last anyway , there is no duration listed on the copy i have and the prtb will only confirm or deny what you say to them , you cant ask them anything as the tenancy has the tenants name listed only


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    #41
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    I didn't suggest you were ripping anyone off and I've no idea why you'd think I'm in anyway anti-landlord.

    As for government meddling, I'd agree it should be let to a minimum.

    I would disagree with the effect it's having on landlords who weren't ripping anyone off. A bi-annual rent review may be a pain in a rising market, not so much in a falling one so it should all balance out over the long term.


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    #42
    star_spotter
    Site Banned Posts: 18 ✭star_spotter


    Graham wrote: »
    I didn't suggest you were ripping anyone off and I've no idea why you'd think I'm in anyway anti-landlord.

    As for government meddling, I'd agree it should be let to a minimum.

    I would disagree with the effect it's having on landlords who weren't ripping anyone off. A bi-annual rent review may be a pain in a rising market, not so much in a falling one so it should all balance out over the long term.

    the rent on this property is pathetically low and now it looks like i cant raise it for eighteen months

    im fcuked , im now going to have to sell it on with the tenant in situ and most likely take a severe loss on the property as a result as no one will want to buy a place with a below market rent


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    #43
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    Graham wrote: »
    I didn't suggest you were ripping anyone off and I've no idea why you'd think I'm in anyway anti-landlord.

    As for government meddling, I'd agree it should be let to a minimum.

    I would disagree with the effect it's having on landlords who weren't ripping anyone off. A bi-annual rent review may be a pain in a rising market, not so much in a falling one so it should all balance out over the long term.

    In a rising market the landlord can't raise the rent, in a falling market the landlord can't stop it falling as the tenant can come back and demand a reduction. Look at the threads of 3 years ago on this forum.the only certainty is that rents will be forced up and up as more landlords head for the exit.


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    #44
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    star_spotter wrote: »
    the rent on this property is pathetically low and now it looks like i cant raise it for eighteen months

    im fcuked , im now going to have to sell it on with the tenant in situ and most likely take a severe loss on the property as a result as no one will want to buy a place with a below market rent

    That not a position I'd wish on anyone, best of luck getting it sorted.

    If you haven't received rent in 2 months you should be looking to terminate the tenancy anyway.


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    #45
    star_spotter
    Site Banned Posts: 18 ✭star_spotter


    Graham wrote: »
    That not a position I'd wish on anyone, best of luck getting it sorted.

    If you haven't received rent in 2 months you should be looking to terminate the tenancy anyway.

    you dont understand , when you buy a place , it take two months to get all the change of ownership work done , i only offically became owner of this place a week ago but because a rent review took place last august and a tenancy was registered on the property last march , under the new legislation i cant raise the rent until mid 2017 , im going to meet the new tenants tomorrow , they have been paying the receiver up until now


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    #46
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    star_spotter wrote: »
    you dont understand , when you buy a place , it take two months to get all the change of ownership work done , i only offically became owner of this place a week ago but because a rent review took place last august and a tenancy was registered on the property last march , under the new legislation i cant raise the rent until mid 2017 , im going to meet the new tenants tomorrow , they have been paying the receiver up until now

    Sorry for the misunderstanding, it must have come as quite a shock not to get rent for the months you didn't own the property.


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    #47
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    star_spotter wrote: »
    you dont understand , when you buy a place , it take two months to get all the change of ownership work done , i only offically became owner of this place a week ago but because a rent review took place last august and a tenancy was registered on the property last march , under the new legislation i cant raise the rent until mid 2017 , im going to meet the new tenants tomorrow , they have been paying the receiver up until now
    The fact of a letting and the level of rent would have been disclosed prior to your signing the contract. You knew all along that you wouldn't be able to increase the rent until August 2016. So you have to wait a year longer. Take a constitutional challenge or suck it!


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    #48
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    lima wrote: »
    You can factor in depreciation into your tax calculations to cover the cost of wear and tear, so if you bought a reasonably decent couch for example it will pay for itself over time. Also, you can bill tenants for damages such as this, and the likes of the PRTB will help.

    This attitude of renters being sub-human house wreckers that you can abuse and milk needs to stop. The cultural attitude of landlords towards renters needs to change. Culturally this creates a blanket dislike towards landlords, so it's brought on by themselves

    Totally agree.. Shocked but not surprised by some of the posts here, given I am on my 6th Irish tenancy. I pay rent here; only good is usable items of furniture are thebed ( cast off of landlord) and two settees that have to be covered. An ancient tatty table, and a chest of drawers that fell apart.. chairs held together with string! oh and two cheap wardrobes ditto. I am lucky with a landlord who has replaced a fridge freezer from the ark but I told him where he could source a second hand one then. I supplied the microwave etc. In the previous place, every peice of furniture had been vandalised, graffitti... not my doing yet I was expected to live with it. I have never damaged any house or furniture and have always left a house in better condition than when I moved in. Painted here etc. I keep an eye on things and have free rein now re repairs etc.


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    #49
    star_spotter
    Site Banned Posts: 18 ✭star_spotter


    Graham wrote: »
    Sorry for the misunderstanding, it must have come as quite a shock not to get rent for the months you didn't own the property.

    No and I have not complained about it here or anywhere else


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    #50
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    The issue of poor furniture is solved by renting unfurnished. Which is the norm in other countries.


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    #51
    star_spotter
    Site Banned Posts: 18 ✭star_spotter


    beauf wrote: »
    The issue of poor furniture is solved by renting unfurnished. Which is the norm in other countries.

    Tenants might then have to respect the contents of the property

    Great idea


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    #52
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    star_spotter wrote: »
    Tenants might then have to respect the contents of the property

    Great idea

    At least it wouldn't a source of disputes from either side.


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    #53
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    star_spotter wrote: »
    details of a tenancy were not an issue in the past

    how long do tenancys last anyway , there is no duration listed on the copy i have and the prtb will only confirm or deny what you say to them , you cant ask them anything as the tenancy has the tenants name listed only

    Details of a tenancy are always an issue. You might have a tenant with a lease to live there rent free till they die or move on. They might even be entitled to other things like electricity or heating. You took a huge gamble buying a place not knowing these details or even if the place will make a return on investment. Its like buying a car not knowing if the engine works, or a viable repair. All of this is way off topics for the PRTB. You should have started a new seperate thread if you want to talk about something completely different.


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    #54
    athtrasna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    PRTB thread???


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    #55
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Graces7 wrote: »
    [/B] Totally agree.. Shocked but not surprised by some of the posts here, given I am on my 6th Irish tenancy. I pay rent here; only good is usable items of furniture are thebed ( cast off of landlord) and two settees that have to be covered. An ancient tatty table, and a chest of drawers that fell apart.. chairs held together with string! oh and two cheap wardrobes ditto. I am lucky with a landlord who has replaced a fridge freezer from the ark but I told him where he could source a second hand one then. I supplied the microwave etc. In the previous place, every peice of furniture had been vandalised, graffitti... not my doing yet I was expected to live with it. I have never damaged any house or furniture and have always left a house in better condition than when I moved in. Painted here etc. I keep an eye on things and have free rein now re repairs etc.

    Bad furniture is going to be obvious before moving in. So the solution to that is not rent a place with bad furniture. I suspect the real issue is that the lack of choice, lack of supply means you can't do this. You have to rent what you can get.

    So then if the issue if lack of supply. You have to ask why is there a lack of supply. As this is a PRTB thread, we should ask has the PRTB helped with supply and other issues. You'd have to say its helped tenants mainly, some help to LL in terms of disputes and deposits But does not help with the large costs than can arise. Also the long delays in processing issues also impacts on LLs.

    All these issues will have an issue on supply and high rents. You'd have to ask how much of this the director of the PRTB can influence. Should there be some measure of success that recompense is calculated from.


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    #56
    Uriel.
    Registered Users Posts: 8,061 ✭✭✭Uriel.


    beauf wrote: »
    Bad furniture is going to be obvious before moving in. So the solution to that is not rent a place with bad furniture. I suspect the real issue is that the lack of choice, lack of supply means you can't do this. You have to rent what you can get.

    So then if the issue if lack of supply. You have to ask why is there a lack of supply. As this is a PRTB thread, we should ask has the PRTB helped with supply and other issues. You'd have to say its helped tenants mainly, some help to LL in terms of disputes and deposits But does not help with the large costs than can arise. Also the long delays in processing issues also impacts on LLs.

    All these issues will have an issue on supply and high rents. You'd have to ask how much of this the director of the PRTB can influence. Should there be some measure of success that recompense is calculated from.

    Those kind of wider issues though are matters for the government. The PRTB has no role in policy making, other than of course to provide it's expertise to government through policy advice, research and recommendations. However, it is the government in the first instance and then the Dáil that decides on policy initiatives and legislative developments.


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    #57
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Uriel. wrote: »
    Those kind of wider issues though are matters for the government. The PRTB has no role in policy making, other than of course to provide it's expertise to government through policy advice, research and recommendations. However, it is the government in the first instance and then the Dáil that decides on policy initiatives and legislative developments.

    Yes which is why I say you have to look at the issues that the PRTB can influence. Have they made enough improvements there, in their own back yard etc.


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    #58
    only_kidding
    Site Banned Posts: 3 ✭only_kidding


    how are the prtb likely to view the following

    recently took possession of a property which has tenants in situ , tenants appear to be lovely people , however , they pointed to an issue with a noisy boiler , the boiler works , the heating is fine , its just an irritation due to its noise , is there an obligation on my part to replace this ? , i realise it would help with relations but the complaint pre dates my owning the joint


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    #59
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    only_kidding wrote: »
    how are the prtb likely to view the following

    recently took possession of a property which has tenants in situ , tenants appear to be lovely people , however , they pointed to an issue with a noisy boiler , the boiler works , the heating is fine , its just an irritation due to its noise , is there an obligation on my part to replace this ? , i realise it would help with relations but the complaint pre dates my owning the joint

    The minimum standards for rented accommodation don't specify a noise level for a boiler. I'm not sure if a noisy boiler would been seen as preventing 'peaceful enjoyment of the property'.

    It would probably be in the interests of everyone involved for you to get a qualified person in to service the boiler and give you a professional opinion.


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    #60
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    beauf wrote: »
    Bad furniture is going to be obvious before moving in. So the solution to that is not rent a place with bad furniture. I suspect the real issue is that the lack of choice, lack of supply means you can't do this. You have to rent what you can get.

    So then if the issue if lack of supply. You have to ask why is there a lack of supply. As this is a PRTB thread, we should ask has the PRTB helped with supply and other issues. You'd have to say its helped tenants mainly, some help to LL in terms of disputes and deposits But does not help with the large costs than can arise. Also the long delays in processing issues also impacts on LLs.

    All these issues will have an issue on supply and high rents. You'd have to ask how much of this the director of the PRTB can influence. Should there be some measure of success that recompense is calculated from.

    I would not rent or not rent on the basis of bad furniture. I would and have done try to get the basics replaced. If the house and more so the situation are fine then I will work round the lack but I lose respect for the landlord who lets a place furnished with damaged junk. Which is what is here! I can do wonders with covers etc. The lack of much furniture here was a plus. Less junk!


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    #61
    athtrasna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    Can we stay on topic please


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