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Evidence that loyalist paramilitaries were being controlled by mi5

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 305 ✭✭CaoimhinCong


    guy2231 wrote: »
    I don't have much respech for the New IRA if they want respect they are going to have to earn it just calling yourself IRA does not mean you automatically get respect.

    Unfortunately for them knee capping drug dealers and killing civilians by accident and proving they are not willing to risk their lives while also probably making a few bob does not get much respect or support for people.

    Christy Robinson? Harry Fitz ? Colly Duffy? Alex McCrory? Paddy McDaid? Kevin Braney? Kevin Hannaway? Mandy Duffy?

    Some absolutely staunch republicans currently charged with alleged NIRA activity I could name a load more. These arent criminals or johnny come latelys.


  • Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    guy2231 wrote: »
    I don't have much respech for the New IRA if they want respect they are going to have to earn it just calling yourself IRA does not mean you automatically get respect.

    Unfortunately for them knee capping drug dealers and killing civilians by accident and proving they are not willing to risk their lives while also probably making a few bob does not get much respect or support from people.
    They are a pretty serious operation though and have built some political support across a fairly broad age group and have members/supporters jn every county

    ..they wont bring the north back to war as a unity referendum is more likely than not over mext few years,but they certainly arent a joke either



    (if ireland had a proper government,they would be speaking out againest mi5 operating with no political over sight on our island againest irish citizens...the cases from arrests from last summer will collapse under scrutiny


  • Site Banned Posts: 339 ✭✭guy2231


    They are a pretty serious operation though and have built some political support across a fairly broad age group and have members/supporters jn every county

    ..they wont bring the north back to war as a unity referendum is more likely than not over mext few years,but they certainly arent a joke either



    (if ireland had a proper government,they would be speaking out againest mi5 operating with no political over sight on our island againest irish citizens...the cases from arrests from last summer will collapse under scrutiny

    I disagree completely with the current futile campaign it will only lead to needless deaths of people who don't deserve to die and they will die for nothing, they have not done anything notable and barely even try by the looks of things.

    I don't agree with killing PSNI members at all they are decent people doing their best.

    MOD NOTE
    @guy2231 : Material that is contrary to the History forum's guidelines on civility and violence has been removed. Please considering reading those guidelines and tempering any future posts or you will be carded.


  • Registered Users Posts: 305 ✭✭CaoimhinCong


    guy2231 wrote: »
    I disagree completely with the current futile campaign it will only lead to needless deaths of people who don't deserve to die and they will die for nothing, they have not done anything notable and barely even try by the looks of things.

    I don't agree with killing PSNI members at all they are decent people doing their best, if anyone at all anywhere in the world wants to kill a few British soldiers I would have no problem with that, I have never shed any tears for murderous oppressive scum they deserve all they get and more.

    You don't agree with attacking the PSNI?


  • Site Banned Posts: 339 ✭✭guy2231


    You don't agree with attacking the PSNI?

    Not one bit unless the political climate changed drastically.


  • Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    guy2231 wrote: »
    I disagree completely with the current futile campaign it will only lead to needless deaths of people who don't deserve to die and they will die for nothing, they have not done anything notable and barely even try by the looks of things.

    I don't agree with killing PSNI members at all they are decent people doing their best, if anyone at all anywhere in the world wants to kill a few British soldiers I would have no problem with that, I have never shed any tears for murderous oppressive scum they deserve all they get and more.


    The psni are backed up by the british army and use em for bomb disposal among other things,how can yous view them as anything other than a wing of british army/security forces


    What would yous call psni members confiscating hurleys off kids and calling em fenian scum?



    Yous may disagree with armed struggle,im skeptical of its merits given likelyhood pf a unity poll...but support for the psni is pretty low brow acceptance of british rule here


  • Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    You don't agree with attacking the PSNI?

    it wont acheive anything.....just highlight their impartiality,corruption,continued blaggarding around HET and drain the support from all sides


    Shinners stood on a policy of holding police to account and have done anything but since....its long since time to stop indulging the psni,every year passes they decend further and further back into sectarianism....its an utter failure and consistantly covered up by media


  • Site Banned Posts: 339 ✭✭guy2231


    Ffff221 wrote: »
    The Stevens inquiry an official British government inquiry set up after pressure from Europe about collusion, during his investigations, Stevens and his team arrested 210 paramilitary suspects, of whom, he said, 207 were MI5 agents.

    During his investigation his offices and all his files burnt down in a mysterious fire, he was told by a senior RUC officer that the FRU had most likely done this (the main agency running agents in Northern Ireland) which despite being sent to investigate collusion he never even heard about the main agency responsible for it.

    In relation to the Dublin Monaghan bombings At the time of the bombings, Colin Wallace was a
    top British Intelligence Corps officer and a psychological warfare specialist at the British Army's Northern Ireland headquarters. Since his resignation in 1975, he has exposed scandals involving the security forces, including state collusion with loyalists and most famous of all he exposed the kincora boys scandal years before anyone else even mentioned it, He gave evidence to the Barron Inquiry

    In an August 1975 letter to Tony Stoughton, chief of the British Army Information Service in Northern Ireland, Wallace writes:

    There is good evidence the Dublin bombings in May last year were a reprisal for the Irish government's role in bringing about the [power sharing] Executive. According to one of Craig's people [Craig Smellie, the top MI6 officer in Northern Ireland], most of those involved – the Youngs, the Jacksons, Mulholland, Hanna, Kerr and McConnell – were working closely with [Special Branch] and [Military Intelligence] at that time. Craig's people believe the sectarian assassinations were designed to destroy Rees's attempts to negotiate a ceasefire, and the targets were identified for both sides by [Intelligence/Special Branch]. They also believe some very senior RUC officers were involved with this group. In short, it would appear that loyalist paramilitaries and [Intelligence/Special Branch] have formed some sort of pseudo gangs in an attempt to fight a war of attrition against the IRA by getting paramilitaries on both sides to kill each other and at the same time prevent any future political initiative.

    In a further letter of September 1975, Wallace wrote that MI5 was backing a group of UVF hardliners who opposed the UVF's move toward politics. He added:

    I believe most of the sectarian violence generated during the later part of the year was caused by some of the new [Intelligence] people deliberately stirring up the conflict. As you know, we have never been allowed to target the breakaway UVF, nor the UFF, during the past year. Yet they have killed more people than the IRA!
    ;
    Mod Note: Please provide links to assist other posters to discuss.

    Evidence is overwhelming in relation to loyalist collusion only the people who haven't bothered looking into it are in denial about it.

    Members of the security forces involved in loyalist attacks were named in the book Lethal Allies, written by Anne Cadwallader, a veteran journalist and caseworker for the Pat Finucance center, She analyses how British colonial rule attempted to divide in order to conquer; British officer Frank Kitson Army commander, who was stationed in Northern Ireland from 1970-72, developed a strategy using “gangs” to fight independence movements, and described the law as “little more than a propaganda cover for the disposal of unwanted members of the public.”


  • Site Banned Posts: 339 ✭✭guy2231


    On 16 January 1981, Bernadette Devlin and her husband were shot by members of the Ulster Freedom Fighters, a cover name of the Ulster Defence Association (UDA), who broke into their home near Coalisland, County Tyrone.

    The gunmen shot Devlin nine times in front of her children.
    The SAS were watching the McAliskey home at the time, but instead of arresting the loyalist killers on the way in, they arrested them on the way out instead, it has been claimed that Devlin's assassination was ordered by British authorities at the highest level and that collusion was more than likely.

    A perfect example of proxy warfare, I mean why do it yourself when you can manipulate others into doing it for you and then arrest them afterwards to make yourself appear to be the good guys merely keeping the peace

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cqSpEOO_Wfc&list=PL1CF73895A9142DF4&index=26


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,806 ✭✭✭BalcombeSt4


    guy2231 wrote: »
    I don't have much respech for the New IRA if they want respect they are going to have to earn it just calling yourself IRA does not mean you automatically get respect.

    Unfortunately for them knee capping drug dealers and killing civilians by accident and proving they are not willing to risk their lives while also probably making a few bob does not get much respect or support from people.

    Yes, this is basically what I was getting at.

    If me & a group of my friends called ourselves the INLA or IRA, that would not make us the INLA or IRA.

    I mean just look at the gap in quality from these interviews between their spokesmen from GHQ of the "New" IRA, & Provos.

    An interview from 1992 on French TV with a Provo GHQ rep. This guy is clearly quite intelligent, very articulate, explains the PIRA's strategy well, and is able to give logical & precise justifications for IRA actions, whether you agree with his answers is another thing.



    This next guy is a spokesman for the "New" IRA, it's from 2019 for German TV. He can't justify any of his groups actions, he's not very articulate or seemingly intelligent & it's a bit cringe watching it.


    You read in books & hear in documentaries all the time, that the thing that made the PIRA so effective was that the British tabloid image of your average IRA man as a blood thirsty mad-man was wrong, and that PIRA Volunteers were smart & articulate people, like Tommy & Padraig McKearney from Moy in East Tyrone, Brendan Hughes, Ivor Bell, Angelo Fusco & Joe Doherty from Belfast, and the people who went purely into Sinn Fein like Adams & McGuinness who were both former IRA Chief of Staffs, Danny Morrison who was the powerful propagandist for both the IRA & SF, and Gerry Kelly, the Old Bailey bomber, 205 day Hunger Stricker, 1983 Maze escape leader & set up sleeper cells in mainland in Germany & Holland in the mid 80's, who is now a MLA at Stormont.


  • Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    He can't justify any of his groups actions, he's not very articulate or seemingly intelligent & it's a bit cringe watching it.

    The continued occupation (and thats what it is) is surely justification enough*


    Blowing smoke up everyones hole calling em articulate or sneering at those who dont bend the knee and who'se commitment is unbroken....is a pointless exercise,while fundamentally speaking ireland isnt united

    *its every bit as hypocrisy to say pira bad -old ira good,as it is to say pira good-new ira bad.....their all working towards same goal


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,767 ✭✭✭eire4


    Two books that are very interesting that delve into the collusion between the British secret services and loyalist terrorist's are Sean McPhilemy's The Committee and the more recent book by Anne Cadwallader Lethal Allies where she details the horrific killings of the Glenane Gang


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,806 ✭✭✭BalcombeSt4


    The continued occupation (and thats what it is) is surely justification enough*


    Blowing smoke up everyones hole calling em articulate or sneering at those who dont bend the knee and who'se commitment is unbroken....is a pointless exercise,while fundamentally speaking ireland isnt united

    *its every bit as hypocrisy to say pira bad -old ira good,as it is to say pira good-new ira bad.....their all working towards same goal

    It's not pointless, I'm pointing out two very obvious things. First, calling yourself a guerrilla organization does not make you a guerrilla organization, you actually have to participate in guerrilla operations, this group of Einsteins don't do that, and second, I'm not questioning the morality of what they're doing, I'm saying if you believe you're going to liberated by these people, you are going to be waiting a very, very, very long time.

    And if you believe in this cause so strongly maybe you should be on the frontlines with your Armalite fighting the British Army. And how is the war going? A prison officer blowing up in 2016 & a young female journalist shot dead in 2019, WOW, they make the Viet Cong look like amateurs. And this bunch of ****ing muppets became the first group to call themselves the IRA to murder a journalist, the only other group to murder a journalist in the conflict was the Loyalist Volunteer Force in 2001, so well done, they have recreated one of the LVF's most successful achievements.

    How the fukking hell was it justified to blow a young woman's head off, in the process making all of Ireland hate them just to satisfy this groups delusions that they are the IRA (which they're not)??? What is wrong with you?


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,733 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    MOD Note:
    @ Blaaz_
    This is veering into the realm of AH / Current Affairs and not history. Please stick to the thread topic at hand from this perspective and be respectful of other posters.


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