Sexism you have personally experienced or have heard of? READ POST 1

py2006 · 14-03-2021 6:14pm

It must be a total nosebleed for them that the head of the MET is a woman.

H3llR4iser · 14-03-2021 10:41pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Sure, it happens a lot, but scale is important. How often will a look be interpreted as something offensive? A guy asking if a woman is single, becomes a grave offense? A wink when passing goods over a counter, becomes a indication that the guy is a serial killer.

Absolutely, there IS that kind of problem as well, but I decided not to consider it on purpose or it would derail and delegitimize the whole conversation. Someone who equates a question, a polite invite or a look as "harassment" is beyond reasonable discussion.

Deleted User wrote: »

I can remember having a conversation with a group of people about this subject, where the women and men, were talking about what they've "done" and the reactions received. Quite often, an innocent remark is completely blown out of proportion. That can be a guy thinking a woman is interested in her, when she's simply being polite... or a woman getting weird when a guy admits he's not attracted to her.

There is so much exaggeration in todays world with regards to interpersonal behavior.. and a strong inclination to find the more negative interpretations. Personally, I suspect it's because complaining, or commenting on the negative behavior of the opposite gender, builds a connection with others who might feel the same. In a world that is increasingly becoming disconnected, many people crave the social proofing, and sympathy, that making such comments can elicit.

People can see anything in anything if they look hard enough; The problem is that somehow, in the 21st century society has forgotten this concept. So everything is "problematic", everything is "sexist" and so on.

Deleted User wrote: »

TBH I think it would be interesting to ask these Ahole guys how they became that way.. In my own experience, from 'players', and friends I know, many of them treat women the way that they were treated.

To be fully honest, I'm just of the idea that the real arseholes are just that, total wastes of oxygen. I've never frequented any of these characters, but I've randomly met a few over the years, and I stand by my opinion.

The more "borderline" types, or even better, the "pretend arseholes" are most likely a completely different story...

Deleted User wrote: »

There is so little consideration for how women treat men (dating, common conversations, breakups, etc), and how that might lead to Ahole behavior in the future. It's like the area of victim blaming. Whenever it relates to women, their responsibility is superficially acknowledged, but any suggestion of something greater than that is met with condemnation, and exaggeration. The same thing happens here. While it's acknowledged that some women do wrong by guys, there's little appreciation for the deep hurts that women often cause (intentionally, or otherwise). The focus is firmly fixated on external considerations.

It's a possibility, although not an excuse, but I think I get what you mean - and I'd try to put a slight spin on it: in my view, most of the "pretend arseholes" I mentioned above, behave like that because one way or the other, they have been led to believe it works - rather than for "retaliation".

Almost invariably, the media (even in this rampant PC age) pushes the image of the popular guy, who gets all of the women's attention, as being quite a bit of an arsehole. Moreover, plenty of young lads who struggle to get any consideration from girls will have a classmate or friend who, while being a bit of a scum, has plenty of success.

Factor in the lack of awareness, lack of guidance and information, and the guy will most likely assume that it IS the arseholery being successful, rather than maybe other factors - perhaps the successful guy is witty, or he is popular/has status, or he's just plain good looking. This is pretty much the foundation of all of the PUA-shoite that's out there - "be an absoule b@astard, and you'll be grand".

This lack of awareness strikes both sides - again, helped in no small part by the media and stereotypes; a LOT of women, even in the adult age, don't grasp the concept that men have feelings and dignity just as they do.

15-03-2021 12:48am

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Absolutely, there IS that kind of problem as well, but I decided not to consider it on purpose or it would derail and delegitimize the whole conversation. Someone who equates a question, a polite invite or a look as "harassment" is beyond reasonable discussion.

Except, that's the world we live in today. #metoo saw to that.. and TBF it was happening long before metoo started.

People can see anything in anything if they look hard enough; The problem is that somehow, in the 21st century society has forgotten this concept. So everything is "problematic", everything is "sexist" and so on.

Everything for "women" is problematic, sexist, and so on. Not so for men. There's that double standard at play, and it constantly amazes me just how much people encourage that double standard to continue.

Note. Women being a vague term here. Naturally, I don't mean all women.

To be fully honest, I'm just of the idea that the real arseholes are just that, total wastes of oxygen. I've never frequented any of these characters, but I've randomly met a few over the years, and I stand by my opinion.

The more "borderline" types, or even better, the "pretend arseholes" are most likely a completely different story...

It's not that simple. I'll give you an example. I have a good friend who is very much a player. He's in his early 40s, built like a tank, absolutely gorgeous in that George Clooney way. He's aged extremely well, and dresses to suit his style. His approach to women is a basic niceness, but they're essentially fast food to him. Disposable. He's very charming initially, but when he's finished, he's already forgotten them. Now.. to most women he'd be an absolute prick. However, he's active in a variety of charities, works part time in a shelter for abused children, volunteers for all manner of activities. I also know that his mother was an abusive alcoholic, who drove out the father, and put the son in hospital a few times before he finally left.

People aren't as simple as modern society likes to make them out to be. People are complicated. But it's worth considering what guided them to be the person they are today.

That friend I described. He fell in love once, just after I met him originally. Loved the woman to bits. Title contender for best boyfriend ever. And she cheated on him with a variety of guys.

We should be paying more attention to the influence that women have over men. If women can harp on about toxic masculinity, and that's something that's here to stay, then we should be able to point out the range of negatives that go with women's behaviors.

It's a possibility, although not an excuse, but I think I get what you mean - and I'd try to put a slight spin on it: in my view, most of the "pretend arseholes" I mentioned above, behave like that because one way or the other, they have been led to believe it works - rather than for "retaliation".

Almost invariably, the media (even in this rampant PC age) pushes the image of the popular guy, who gets all of the women's attention, as being quite a bit of an arsehole. Moreover, plenty of young lads who struggle to get any consideration from girls will have a classmate or friend who, while being a bit of a scum, has plenty of success.

Factor in the lack of awareness, lack of guidance and information, and the guy will most likely assume that it IS the arseholery being successful, rather than maybe other factors - perhaps the successful guy is witty, or he is popular/has status, or he's just plain good looking. This is pretty much the foundation of all of the PUA-shoite that's out there - "be an absoule b@astard, and you'll be grand".

This lack of awareness strikes both sides - again, helped in no small part by the media and stereotypes; a LOT of women, even in the adult age, don't grasp the concept that men have feelings and dignity just as they do.

There's a lot more to PUA that this new breed declares, or those on boards believe. I know, I was very active for a few years, knowing many of the big PUA "gurus". Like anything there's some good, and a lot of bad. The problem being that the scum invariably floats to the top, and that's what people focus on.

And no... There's a lot of PUA ****e grounded in NLP, Psychology, Cognitive science, hypnosis, meditation, etc.

It's also grounded on a lot of the crap that women do instinctively... and society gives them a free pass for doing it... but it works.. hence the desire by PUA to copy them.

All the same, my point wasn't about PUA. It was about the lack of appreciation and awareness for the behavior of women, and how that behavior affects the development of men.

I did my stint as a bastasd. Oddly enough, not during my PUA period, but well afterwards, and it came from a series of experiences with women who were pure poison. Now, I'm a better person, because I learned from my mistakes, and started holding women to a standard they don't apply themselves to... and therefore, my experiences improved immeasurably.

cms88 · 15-03-2021 12:22pm

A new complaint i seen over the weekend is some women saying men will only listen when it's brought up by another man. So this is now also a problem apparently.

H3llR4iser · 15-03-2021 2:08pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Except, that's the world we live in today. #metoo saw to that.. and TBF it was happening long before metoo started.

Yep, that's it indeed, but what exactly can be done about it? It's been left unchecked for too long - as you say, it had already started well before the whole #MeToo thing. I have known more than one woman who'd react to somebody asking her to go for a drink in the same way you or I would react to stepping onto a giant mound of bovine excrement, and it was quite some time ago, well before Twitter & C. even existed. The only way forward, to me, seems to be about mitigating the personal impact of this and basically wait for the storm to weather itself out (history teaches - these extreme 'waves' are always counteracted - which is worrysome for the future, but in a different way).

The issue being...it's to be entirely expected that, most of the times, an invitation gets refused. It's normal, it's life. Yet there's a chasm between "No, thanks." and "EEEWW, don't talk to me, creep!" or even equating an invitation with "assault".. Provided,ofc, that the initial request was civilized.

Rest of the post - I won't reply point by point as it'd take forever, but yeah, pretty much what I was meaning, exposed in a more elegant way

- of course there are variations.

One thing, however:

Deleted User wrote: »

I'll give you an example. I have a good friend who is very much a player. He's in his early 40s, built like a tank, absolutely gorgeous in that George Clooney way. He's aged extremely well, and dresses to suit his style. His approach to women is a basic niceness, but they're essentially fast food to him. Disposable. He's very charming initially, but when he's finished, he's already forgotten them. Now.. to most women he'd be an absolute prick. However, he's active in a variety of charities, works part time in a shelter for abused children, volunteers for all manner of activities.

The way I meant it, he wouldn't even feature on the "arseholishness" scale, not even remotely. For whatever reason, he's made a choice. He doesn't go around shouting cr@p from the window of his white van, he doesn't seem to be crossing paths with guys and going "ya lookin' at me?" 'cause he's itching for a brawl; As far as I can extrapolate, when he is with these women, he behaves fairly and doesn't abuse them. He generally behaves like a decent human being (actually, better than most it would seem) who is not sold on the whole "marriage, picket fences, 2.7 kids" contract.

If the women he gets with go at the whole process with the "Disney fairytale" firmly set as the one and only goal, it's not his fault and doesn't give them any right to call him a prick or whatever else; I guess in their view, he's been "leading them on". But in order to be "led on", you need to be willing to go with it.

Now this of course it's a redctio ad absurdum for the sake of not writing a new chapter of Dante's comedy, but it all closely reminds me that of kids highly anticipating the release of a game; They get to the point they make the whole game up in their heads. Then it comes out, it's different from their own imaginary version, and they complain, leave bad reviews and ask for refunds. Doesn't work like that.

15-03-2021 3:42pm

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Yep, that's it indeed, but what exactly can be done about it? It's been left unchecked for too long - as you say, it had already started well before the whole #MeToo thing. I have known more than one woman who'd react to somebody asking her to go for a drink in the same way you or I would react to stepping onto a giant mound of bovine excrement, and it was quite some time ago, well before Twitter & C. even existed. The only way forward, to me, seems to be about mitigating the personal impact of this and basically wait for the storm to weather itself out (history teaches - these extreme 'waves' are always counteracted - which is worrysome for the future, but in a different way).

Oh, I see it going the opposite way with a return to more Victorian habits, and behaviors... all brought about by women themselves.

As for me, I opted out. There were other reasons for doing so, but I moved abroad to a region where this crap isn't happening.

The issue being...it's to be entirely expected that, most of the times, an invitation gets refused. It's normal, it's life. Yet there's a chasm between "No, thanks." and "EEEWW, don't talk to me, creep!" or even equating an invitation with "assault".. Provided,ofc, that the initial request was civilized.

Agreed.

Actually, I think we're mostly on the same wavelength here.

99nsr125 · 15-03-2021 10:45pm

I dunno where to put this

But apparently robots are sexist now !

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2271365-robots-increase-the-gender-pay-gap-despite-raising-wages-overall/

cms88 · 05-04-2021 6:15pm

So again boys have to be ''thought'' respect for girls etc in school. I wonder when will the same be suggested for girls?

05-04-2021 7:33pm

Well.. there's a process involved.

Whenever these consent classes are brought in, and they will be brought in, there will be an eventual pushback due to the entire focus on boys learning consent..

It's very easy to make vague statements about consent when it doesn't have to be examined and backed up with measurable results. Once classes start in schools, there will be examination of what is taught, and then people will start asking what is confusing boys so much.. which will naturally lead to all the mixed signals that girls/women send in communication, which will, in turn, lead to demands that women be taught about sending mixed signals. Etc.

I'm honestly looking forward for these new measures to be brought into policy, because it'll be impossible for feminists and women to hide behind society's double standards in how people behave, and appear. It's one thing to say that women should be able to behave and dress however they wish, it's another thing when it's directly linked to how boys/men respond to them. By placing emphasis on consent and teaching boys how to behave, they're encouraging society to recognise, and stop ignoring the responsibility that women/girls have in any interpersonal situation.

H3llR4iser · 13-04-2021 12:23pm

So, the Formula 1 eSports series is doing a "Women's wildcard" operation, to get at least one woman in the series:

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.formula-1-announce-female-only-qualification-route-for-f1-esports-series-pro.5Fr2BNLRaBuh6iuOKqa1ez.html

Whatever you think of eSports is pointless and off topic; The straight fact is that it is something that's gained ever increasing popularity (even more so during Pandemic times), enough so to attract the interest and involvement of actual sporting organizations, such as the Formula One Management.

Here, rather than sexism per se, the issue is the missed opportunity to try and figure out WHY there are absolutely ZERO women making it in - and I don't mean to the Pro Series (which is limited to the top 20 drivers), but even to the various intermediate stages. You can look online, there are plenty of photos of these events with hundreds of people - not ONE lady in sight.

This is a perfect case of "where exactly are the barriers?": it's something that, if you want, you can get good at on your own time, at home, with an "entry barrier" made up of a computer and maybe a relatively decent steering wheel setup; Stuff you can get for less than the cost of an iPhone X.

Also, the qualifiers are "hotlap competitions" - you just need to set a fast time, alone. You don't even need to play online regularly, if you're good at the game, you have a chance. The only real excuse, in this scenario, is "I don't wanna do it" - which would be worth the question "well, why?".

iptba · 18-04-2021 4:29pm

iptba wrote: »

https://www.communityfoundation.ie/images/uploads/pdfs/A_guide_to_The_Community_Foundation_for_Ireland.pdf

The Community Foundation for Ireland is one of the largest philanthropic organisations in Ireland. We were established in 2000 with the support of Government and the business sector. The Community Foundation for Ireland helps people make a difference by inspiring a spirit of giving and by investing in people and solutions to benefit every community. From an initial investment of €1m in 2000 and through the support of families, individuals, corporates and other trusts and foundations, we have invested many millions in our communities and grown a perpetual fund that will allow us to continue supporting social causes into the future.

Women’s Fund
The Women’s Fund for Ireland is a longterm philanthropic fund to support women and girls in Ireland. Current priorities of the Fund are the prevention of violence against women and the empowerment of women to take leadership roles in communities. When you support the Women’s Fund, you are joining a community of everyday philanthropists committed to improving the lives of women and girls in Ireland, both now and into the future

I have just come across this charity. The Women's Fund was set up in 2010, so not at the start, so doesn't seem like it is part of its core mission. They don't seem to have a similar fund for men.

A Twitter ad from them just appeared in my timeline:

The Community Foundation for Ireland ⁦‪@CommunityFound‬;⁩

Are You Passionate about #ClimateAction #Communities #Equality #GivingBack ....then be a changemaker - follow us for updates ...

They still have a fund for women and girls but not for men and boys.

Rezident · 20-04-2021 8:16pm

Rodin wrote: »

Most women are sexist.

I don't think most women are sexist, but I think that while sexism against women is toxic in Western society, sexism against men is socially acceptable so people can get away with it more. There does not seem to be much deterrent against it, it is openly laughed about:

Maybe we need to stand up to it more, but when I have tried that with my own female friends, by pointing out that in many ways there has never been a better time or place for women to live than in Western Society today, they got angry, and said that was sexist

the_pen_turner · 20-04-2021 9:45pm

Rezident wrote: »

I don't think most women are sexist, but I think that while sexism against women is toxic in Western society, sexism against men is socially acceptable so people can get away with it more. There does not seem to be much deterrent against it, it is openly laughed about:

Maybe we need to stand up to it more, but when I have tried that with my own female friends, by pointing out that in many ways there has never been a better time or place for women to live than in Western Society today, they got angry, and said that was sexist

clear cut case of rape to me. his consent is dependant on her being on birth control. remove the brithcontrol and you remove the consent. same as removing a condom

20-04-2021 10:08pm

Rezident wrote: »

I don't think most women are sexist, but I think that while sexism against women is toxic in Western society, sexism against men is socially acceptable so people can get away with it more. There does not seem to be much deterrent against it, it is openly laughed about:

Most people (both men and women) have some degrees of sexism as part of their personal development. For them, it's likely to some minor stereotypes that they've created for themselves or taken from social conditioning. That's not to say that having those sexist attitudes are negative.. most people manage to keep those attitudes to themselves. Just as most people keep their racist attitudes to themselves.

There's a tendency in our modern society to jump to extremes, but more importantly for double standards to be applied. For women, or rather feminists, it's the belief of subconscious bias that men will have towards women, without any real acceptance that women will have the same subconscious biases.. or conscious biases. We have allowed a society where women are allowed to be openly sexist towards men, but for a man to display (or even not display) sexism, is the height of indecent behavior.

Maybe we need to stand up to it more, but when I have tried that with my own female friends, by pointing out that in many ways there has never been a better time or place for women to live than in Western Society today, they got angry, and said that was sexist

Double standards. They get angry because women are victims, and nothing can be allowed to suggest that they've created this situation for themselves. Men are the aggressors. There's no middle ground. No chance of getting women to acknowledge the double standards, because they have been conditioned by society to believe that they are special.

They might be special because they're beautiful.. but because they're beautiful, they're objectified. Or men judge them on their appearance. If they're smart, then men don't appreciate their intelligence and are threatened by them. If they're ambitious or competitive, then men are threatened by that too, and won't treat them by the same standards that are applied to other men... but then, women are different to men, and should be treated in a better way, but... and so on. Double standards. And they're not going to give them up. Why would they, when society places women on such pedestals... ?

There's no point in showing just how protected women are in a western society. The sheer range of opportunities that are available to them based solely on their gender. The range of benefits whether it's less expensive health insurance, or cheaper car insurance, or simply the perception of value due to being potentially mothers.. There really is no point because women are victims. That's not going to change any time soon.

All the same, I do suggest that men need to start standing up to this crap, and actively seeking a more equal society where people are not being judged on the basis of their gender... but women will fight against such a movement, because there are a lot of benefits in not being equal, and the ball is completely in their court.

99nsr125 · 20-04-2021 10:22pm

Rezident wrote: »

I don't think most women are sexist, but I think that while sexism against women is toxic in Western society, sexism against men is socially acceptable so people can get away with it more. There does not seem to be much deterrent against it, it is openly laughed about:

Maybe we need to stand up to it more, but when I have tried that with my own female friends, by pointing out that in many ways there has never been a better time or place for women to live than in Western Society today, they got angry, and said that was sexist

Don't stop, when good men stand aside evil prospers

20-04-2021 10:27pm

Talking **** with a mate recently and a thought crystalised in my mind.
It's completely fine, if not expected, for women to openly consider transactional elements of a relationship. On the other hand a man who considers finances, lifestyle, access to children etc. is made out to be a user. A heartless bastard only out for themselves.

PCeeeee · 02-07-2021 1:24pm

‘It was glorious to beat a man up and see him run away’

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/culture/it-was-glorious-to-beat-a-man-up-and-see-him-run-away-1.4609295%3fmode=amp

A man. Any man? Certainly reads like it.

silverharp · 02-07-2021 2:06pm

PCeeeee wrote: »

‘It was glorious to beat a man up and see him run away’

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/culture/it-was-glorious-to-beat-a-man-up-and-see-him-run-away-1.4609295%3fmode=amp

A man. Any man? Certainly reads like it.

I'll take things that didnt happen for 10 Bob

One eyed Jack · 02-07-2021 2:43pm

PCeeeee wrote: »

‘It was glorious to beat a man up and see him run away’

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/culture/it-was-glorious-to-beat-a-man-up-and-see-him-run-away-1.4609295%3fmode=amp

A man. Any man? Certainly reads like it.

If you only read the headline, yep, bloody clickbait… every time

The article itself provides a broader context for her opinions, but the context of the specific incident itself -

She also encouraged women to fight back if they can when attacked by men. “I want us to survive, and I’m not victim-blaming, but if you can fight back, fight back,” she said, recounting an incident when she was groped in a nightclub. “I found him, tugged at his shirt so he fell down. I sat on him and said, ‘Don’t you ever touch a woman like this again.’ It was glorious to beat a man up and see him run away,” she said.

iptba · 02-07-2021 3:48pm

Men are rarely told to calm down

Not convinced.

PCeeeee · 02-07-2021 8:01pm

One eyed Jack wrote: »

If you only read the headline, yep, bloody clickbait… every time

The article itself provides a broader context for her opinions, but the context of the specific incident itself -

She also encouraged women to fight back if they can when attacked by men. “I want us to survive, and I’m not victim-blaming, but if you can fight back, fight back,” she said, recounting an incident when she was groped in a nightclub. “I found him, tugged at his shirt so he fell down. I sat on him and said, ‘Don’t you ever touch a woman like this again.’ It was glorious to beat a man up and see him run away,” she said.

It was glorious to beat a plumber up.

It was glorious to beat the plumber up.

What does each mean in your opinion?

One eyed Jack · 02-07-2021 8:39pm

PCeeeee wrote: »

It was glorious to beat a plumber up.

It was glorious to beat the plumber up.

What does each mean in your opinion?

Why change the context in which she said what she said? I can understand where she was coming from and I can understand how it felt good for her to fight back against a pervert who groped her. She clearly didn’t intend for her words to be taken out of context as you’re attempting to do.

PCeeeee · 02-07-2021 8:53pm

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Why change the context in which she said what she said? I can understand where she was coming from and I can understand how it felt good for her to fight back against a pervert who groped her. She clearly didn’t intend for her words to be taken out of context as you’re attempting to do.

No answer?

FishOnABike · 03-07-2021 7:09pm

One eyed Jack wrote: »

If you only read the headline, yep, bloody clickbait… every time

The article itself provides a broader context for her opinions, but the context of the specific incident itself -

She also encouraged women to fight back if they can when attacked by men. “I want us to survive, and I’m not victim-blaming, but if you can fight back, fight back,” she said, recounting an incident when she was groped in a nightclub. “I found him, tugged at his shirt so he fell down. I sat on him and said, ‘Don’t you ever touch a woman like this again.’ It was glorious to beat a man up and see him run away,” she said.

Why is this seen as acceptable (both the groping and the subsequent assault)? If the sexes were changed a man couldn't begin to think they could respond similarly let alone that they could consider boasting about it in the expectation of social approval.

04-07-2021 2:27am

FishOnABike wrote: »

Why is this seen as acceptable (both the groping and the subsequent assault)? If the sexes were changed a man couldn't begin to think they could respond similarly let alone that they could consider boasting about it in the expectation of social approval.

Look at macron. Certain people would lose their **** if you reversed the sexes

...Ghost... · 04-07-2021 7:53pm

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Why change the context in which she said what she said? I can understand where she was coming from and I can understand how it felt good for her to fight back against a pervert who groped her. She clearly didn’t intend for her words to be taken out of context as you’re attempting to do.

:eek:
You are arguing over the context of what she said rather than her going after someone after she was allegedly groped? No comment on her assaulting someone and restraining them by sitting on them? It wasn't self defence, or fighting back if the guy had already left the vicinity. She hunted down the guy and assaulted him, dragging him to the ground by his clothing. Judging by the reaction of the guy, it seems more plausible that either the guy had accidently and unknowingly brushed up against her in a busy nightclub, or she got the wrong guy.

Turn the tables. What would happen to a man who dragged a woman to the ground and sat on her after she allegedly groped him? I think he wouldn't be writing about it and bragging about it in a national newspaper. The only writing about it would be signing the statement taken at the local Garda station he was being held.

BrianD3 · 18-07-2021 8:43pm

Has anyone seen that appalling Curry's PC World ad with the total idiot eating frozen peas because the freezer is broken. It takes "useless man/clever woman" stereotypes to a new level. I thought ads like that were to be banned, maybe this was in the UK only but it is a British retailer.

Pawwed Rig · 18-07-2021 9:27pm

I was in Westport during the week and saw a sign seeking waitresses in a restaurant window. Didn't have a camera on me unfortunately

18-07-2021 9:31pm

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117629352#Comment_117629352

Shockingly bad add, like something a leaving cert mini project would come up with.

iptba · 04-08-2021 1:49am

Probably impossible to know for definite whether there was any bias when the 5 women convicted of involvement in money laundering all received suspended sentences recently:

https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0730/1238311-kinahan-money-update/

But I've recently come across this summary using UK data suggesting quite a large bias in terms of the criminal justice system and sentencing:

Imprisonment Gender Bias

Thesis: It is proposed that men are more readily incarcerated, and for longer, than women for similar

offences, the overall disparity due to sex being roughly a factor of 4.

http://empathygap.uk/Imprisonment%20Gender%20Disparity.pdf

An earlier (2018) piece by the same author - I can't remember whether it used all of the same data or not

Sex Bias in Criminal Justice

http://empathygap.uk/?p=2561

iptba · 15-08-2021 2:52am

Similar topic to my last post: http://empathygap.uk/Children%20in%20Custody.pdf

Author: Dr Rick Bradford (independent, author of The Empathy Gap, Ref.[1])

Web sites: http://empathygap.uk (blog); http://rickbradford.co.uk (professional)

Title: Children in Custody

Synopsis

The focus of these submissions is the UK. But the gendered nature of depriving children of their liberty is a global phenomenon. It is useful to put the UK position in the global context because the UK is amongst the very worst offenders as regards the tendency to incarcerate boys overwhelmingly more than girls.

In 2019 the UN published an 804 page study on children in custody worldwide, Ref.[2]. It identifies that, globally, 94% of detained children are boys. The UN Secretary General has stated that, “deprivation of liberty constitutes a form of structural violence against children”, Ref.[3]. In view of the overwhelming preponderance of boys in custody, can we not conclude that this is an instance of gendered structural violence – against boys?

The greater criminality of boys is not the complete explanation of their prevalence in custody. In the global context Ref.[2] notes “Although girls are less likely to commit serious criminal offences than boys, the detention rate does not reflect the crime rate. More than one-third (35-40%) of all criminal offences worldwide are attributed to girls. However, only one fourth of all children (25%) who come in formal contact with the criminal justice system are girls. Finally, only 11.6% of all convicted children are girls, and only 6% of all children who end up in detention are girls” (see Figure 1 in the Notes below). There is evidence that in the UK too girls tend to be deflected away from custody to a far greater degree than boys (see Notes below).

Ref.[2] observes that “the penal system is the most gendered institution in society”. The section on Discrimination Against Boys puts England and Wales amongst the top few countries in terms of gender ratio: “In some States, the percentage of boys detained in the context of the administration of justice is close to 98% (England and Wales, Argentina) or even 99% (South Africa, Georgia)”.

Did we want to be in such company?

In some countries this arises in the context of armed conflicts or other forms of State unrest or insecurity. What is our excuse?

iptba · 31-08-2021 2:41am

Author: Dr Rick Bradford (independent, author of The Empathy Gap, Ref.[1])

Web sites: http://empathygap.uk (blog); http://rickbradford.co.uk (professional)

Title: Education: The Intersection of Sex and Race

http://empathygap.uk/Education%20The%20Intersection%20of%20Sex%20and%20Race.pdf

Uses UK data but the situation may be similar in Ireland

Conclusions The extent of male disadvantage in education is not appreciated. Whilst there may be grudging acknowledgement of boys under-performance, this is not translated into policy directives as it runs countered to the dominant narrative on gender.

Recommendations The issue is too large to be resolved by a few snappy recommendations. However, the necessary first step is for the highest level of Government, including the Department for Education, to acknowledge that the status quo is unacceptable and must be addressed through policy directives.

Caquas · 06-09-2021 8:30am

This year’s Leaving Cert results confirm the system’s bias against boys - sorry, I meant “the unconscious bias in favour of girls”.

Little will be said and nothing effective will be done about this although, if girls were being disadvantaged like this, the Minister wouldn’t survive if she didn’t launch a campaign or two to reverse the trend and, failing all else, simply rig the system to get the desired results.

A report by the State Examinations Commission (SEC) says while female students do better on average than males in exams, the gender gap was wider in school estimates compared to traditional exams.

It says this was not unexpected, given that research suggests “unconscious estimation bias” in similar contexts generally favours female students.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/girls-get-leaving-cert-results-boost-from-unconscious-bias-1.4665596

Rigging the system to reverse bias against boys must not be done, of course.

The report says it was not possible to correct against gender bias during its standardisation process of schools’ estimated grades this year without “violating” commitments made over how the process would be conducted.

This bias has radical effects on our education system. Boys are increasingly rare in high points courses. Of course you don’t read about that anywhere or about the effects on professions like medicine or the law. Because it is not a problem.

iptba · 06-09-2021 2:53pm

And even in maths where we sometimes hear there is an unconscious bias against females, the opposite was found:

Higher-level maths is one of the few subjects where boys typically secure more top grades than girls.

However, this pattern was reversed under schools’ estimated grades this year, with girls narrowly outperforming boys.

CrabRevolution · 06-09-2021 3:23pm

maybe

The estimated grades are a Godsend for those who want to correct some uncomfortable patterns in education.

Another notable one was how despite the fact we've been told they've been "most impacted" and "left behind" in the Pandemic, students at DEIS and low performing schools apparently managed to close the gap with other schools and outperform their long term average when their grades were estimated and not backed up by an exam-truly a miracle.

Yet as seen in that article, estimated grades only served to increase the gap between the grades of girls and boys. Funny that....

Strumms · 06-09-2021 3:31pm

Yes

Years ago I worked a job that was about 60% office based, 40% physical work...

a girl was hired who was super slim, about 5’0”...a nice person, easy to get on with but not cut out for the physical aspects of the job, having apparently been adamant in the interview that she would be....which to anybody seeing her would have questioned....

ended up being a failure at the physical stuff and getting assigned 100% of all the admin / office work... nothing else...because she wasn’t up to anything else. Basically a desk jockey...

everybody used to look forward to their one desk day / admin day to work hard but physically rest their body....that day was rotated, among us all..

she was getting preferential treatment due to her being female...others were being discriminated against for being male, having to work harder because of their gender..

on asking the boss... “ we need to play to her strengths “... Jacques-Yves Cousteau could have spent a lifetime searching for those without success.

07-09-2021 9:54am

This is an incident that I suspect few here will understand given that it occurred in the UAE and the UAE is very misunderstood on western social media, but anyway...

I have been living in the same apartment block with my wife and kids for four years. I'm a shorter-than average, bald, 40 year old dad-bod male, not exactly intimidating in appearance.

In my building is a large room with several exercise machines for residents to use. The room is spacious, the machines are far apart, and it's usually empty. Most days for the past four years at around 10am I've gone there for my 45 minutes of cardio on a treadmill, as I listen to a podcast or watch a TV show on Netflix.

Around half the time I am alone. The other half there might be one or at most two other people there, of any gender. This morning, I was alone, plodding along the treadmill at a speed of 6.2, incline 6, engrossed in season 5 episode 1 of Breaking Bad on my phone, headphones in, minding my own beeswax.

All of a sudden I am tapped on the shoulder by building security who tells me that I must leave because 9-1pm is ladies only. First time in 4 years I've heard of this; it's not written anywhere.

I stop, ask him if anyone has complained about me, and he says no. I look around the room and tell him that no one is here, so what exactly is the problem? Then he tells me there is a lady outside. I ask him if he is asking me to leave, he says yes, and I grudgingly dismount the treadmill and leave the room. As I exit, I can see that there's a lady waiting outside, in her 20s. She says thank you to the security guard. I look at her as I walk out and tell her directly that I have been told to leave because she wants to enter and ask her if she has a problem with my being there. She denies that she does. Still, I leave, giving her a skeptical, disapproving look.

I call building management; they say they will investigate. They call me back 20 minutes later and say a lady complained.

Meanwhile I tell my wife that I was kicked out of the building gym. Affronted, she takes it upon herself to go down to the lady and enquires if she may have complained about her husband. The lady says no, but she doesn't like men using the gym when she's there. She is obviously not owning her action. My wife tactfully lets her know that what she did isn't cool; that in four years no one has ever complained before, even hijabi women who in the past would have been regular gym users at that time never complained, and that this is a first.

Anywho, I felt very wronged.

FishOnABike · 08-09-2021 4:30pm

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40521374.html

A worthy cause, but do male victims of domestic violence not exist? Independent research indicates they are just as common. Should all supports not be available and promoted on a non discriminatory basis?

silverharp · 14-09-2021 4:04pm

Ill take a punt that it was white men that were axed

https://twitter.com/spikedonline/status/1437743482878169089

One eyed Jack · 14-09-2021 11:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117857051#Comment_117857051

That could have happened anywhere? “Ladies hour” or whatever is hardly an unknown concept in the West. It was the building security in any case who were responsible for your being ejected, not the woman who both you and your wife chose to take issue with… justifying entirely the reason for women to have their own times when they can use the facilities in peace.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117864239#Comment_117864239

They do, but that has nothing to do with an organisation which supports women and children who are victims of domestic violence receiving donations and support from companies like Airbnb, regardless of whatever research suggests.

I just don’t see how it’s either sexist or discriminatory, and there’s nothing to suggest that Airbnb wouldn’t support organisations which provide support to men who are victims of domestic violence, if they too were to apply for a donation through Airbnb’s Community Fund -

https://www.globalgiving.org/airbnb/

15-09-2021 6:47am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117892804#Comment_117892804

So woman takes action to remove a man from an empty room for no other reason than that he's a man, is then challenged by -- get this -- another woman who doesn't favor discrimination, and this somehow shows that women should have segregated spaces after all. Great!

JustJoe7240 · 15-09-2021 7:17am

Yes

I'm going to blame new boards shyte format for possible misunderstanding the poll title. Because I appear to be the only one who voted yes.

One eyed Jack · 15-09-2021 9:53am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117893037#Comment_117893037

That’s not how you framed the story originally? Originally you were ejected from the gym by building security. Whether or not anyone actually made a complaint is neither here nor there when it is the building security is responsible for ejecting you from the premises.

The only relevance I can think of that has any relevance specifically to UAE and the circumstances you describe, is in the penal code -

As amended by federal law no.34 dated 24/12/2005: shall be sentenced to detention for a term not exceeding one year and/or to a fine not in excess of ten thousands dirhams, whoever molests a female in an indecent way by words or acts in a public road or in a frequented place. shall be sentenced as well to the same penalty, any male disguised in a female apparel and enters in this disguise a place reserved for women or where entry is forbidden, at that time, for other than women. should he perpetrate a crime in this condition, this shall be considered an aggravating circumstance.

It doesn’t require any great stretch of the imagination to see how the law would apply in the circumstances you describe, but it’s more obvious application is in circumstances like this -

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wi_Spa_controversy

15-09-2021 11:31am

Oh, I get it now. You’re crackers.

One eyed Jack · 15-09-2021 12:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117893952#Comment_117893952

Well, yes, but that too is beside the point, unless you mean that I’m crackers because I can’t spot what was sexist about you being ejected from the gym by building security who explained to you that it was a women only session, to which both you and your wife took such umbrage that you decided to harass the woman you believe had made a complaint as if she was responsible for your being ejected from the gym.

I know from friends who live there that the UAE isn’t exactly a picnic for either sex depending upon their social status, but what you experienced doesn’t even constitute sexism by Western social media standards, which is I think the point you were making.

iptba · 29-09-2021 2:39am

An official report on the details of the Leaving Cert can be read here:

https://www.examinations.ie/misc-doc/BI-EX-86127860.pdf

One example I'm looking at is honours maths. Between 2017 and 2019, on average 3.6% of girls and 8.1% of boys got the top grade. In 2021, with the accredited grade system, 10.5% of girls and 10.2% of boys got the top grade. Girls got a huge bonus with the accredited grade system, putting boys a disadvantage in the points race.

Padraig Mor · 29-09-2021 11:13am

My young fellow (attending mixed primary school) said this morning that he hoped they wouldn't do soccer in PE today - very strange as he loves it. Turns out the (female) teacher last week decreed that only girls were allowed to score goals in soccer, and could also control the ball with their hands FFS! Equality eh!

iptba · 30-09-2021 2:16am

Something similar to what happened with the Leaving Cert happened in the UK:

"A Level Awards 2021 & Their Obfuscation"

http://empathygap.uk/?p=3843

"The excess of top grades awarded to girls over boys has nearly tripled since the last exam year, 2019."

Figure 3 puts the impact of this bias in perspective. It has resulted in nearly 40,000 more A/A* grades being awarded to girls, compared to boys, than would otherwise have been the case. Given the competition for top university places, this suggests that the order of 20,000 or so places at top universities will go to girls that might otherwise have gone to boys. And this will have come about due to preferencing one sex over the other by teachers. The small biases expressed as percentages belies the potential magnitude of the impact on people.

iptba · 14-10-2021 2:15am

2021 AccessMed Ireland HPAT Scholarships

We are delighted to offer 14 HPAT scholarships to aspiring doctors from disadvantaged backgrounds this year. This is only possible due to the generosity of our donors: Medisec, MedCafe, Royal College of Physicians in Ireland, MPS Ireland, Dr Nikita Deegan and several doctors who wish to remain anonymous.

[..]

Two scholarships are reserved for female students from ethnic minority background (eg. Asian, Afro-Carribean) and/or the travelling community and one scholarship is reserved for a student with a chronic illness or disability as requested by the donors.

https://www.accessmedireland.com/2021-hpat-scholarships

MrCostington · 15-10-2021 1:14pm

I hope this is the right place for this, but a pet peeve of mine is woman not thanking male motorists for not letting them out.

So, you're driving along and flash or motion somebody to let them out of a side road, or turn right. I'd say 80 to 90% of male drivers will say thanks or acknowledge it, even if just a raised finger or slight nod. For female drivers I'd say 30%. I suspect they will thank other female drivers.

A recent example, in start stop traffic, I did not move forward, instead waved a woman out of a petrol station. I was in the right lane, the female driver next to me did the same, let her out. So, I saw her make eye contact with me, to chack it was safe to go (so, she 100% sure knew I was letting her out) and she pulls out, giving the female driver a smile and a wave, and blanking me. WTF!!!

Sexism you have personally experienced or have heard of? *READ POST 1*

Comments

Sexism you have personally experienced or have heard of? READ POST 1