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bilbot79 · 01-02-2021, 23:34

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/...-40036471.html

It's a valid assertion, to an extent.

From a moral perspective however I think they just aren't getting it. They see the fact that they weren't allowed to shaft Ireland as a 'failure' and a result of them not nurturing their own diaspora in the way Ireland has done.

As if it's all a dastardly plot by those sneaky Irish to subvert UK interests. Our diaspora are intrinsically connected to us by our ancestral suffering at the hands of our British overlords. The lobby has strong roots in the genocide that gave rise to it and any British lobby will never be as strong because people unite through common suffering and not through the pleasure of oppressing other nations.

Their study should really have said 'The Irish have had the moral high ground this long time and the 1.5 million displaced unfortunately never forgot the 1 million we starved to death nor did they ancestors. Now it seems the chickens have come home to roost'

listermint · 01-02-2021, 23:39

Don't see any mention of Johnsons lapdogging following of Trump as being a turnoff to the established political classes in the US. Biden hates trump plus Johnsons antics around Obama etc would never have endered himself regardless of what UK diplomats copying of Irish efforts.

The fundamental assumptions are entirely wrong.

bilbot79 · 02-02-2021, 08:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by listermint

Don't see any mention of Johnsons lapdogging following of Trump as being a turnoff to the established political classes in the US. Biden hates trump plus Johnsons antics around Obama etc would never have endered himself regardless of what UK diplomats copying of Irish efforts.

The fundamental assumptions are entirely wrong.

Good point. A fair study would have highlighted the ultimate policy failure that is Brexit and the section of the Story party that delivered it.

Wanderer78 · 02-02-2021, 08:42

Uk blames others for potentially one of dumbest political and economic moves ever made by a country, interesting!

Peregrinus · 02-02-2021, 08:55

The report is from Policy Exchange, a centre-right think-tank which has generally adopted a pro-Brexit, and pro-hard-Brexit, stance.

And I think this is what accounts for the fairly obvious blinds spot in the report. It seems (from the account given in the Independent to proceed on the assumption that, if properly presented, the UK's position would have had as much appeal as Ireland's position, and it blames the failure to sell that position on underperformance by the UK's Washington operation, relative to the (much smaller, more poorly-resourced) Irish operation. Policy Exchange can't accept that the policy the embassy was being asked to sell was itself deeply flawed.

In truth, the problem was not with the presentation of the position, but rather with the position itself. Even friends of Brexit will have to concede that the UK did an astonishly bad job of implementing Brexit - divided, incoherent, inconistent, contradictory, aimless, pointless and unfocussed. There was no agreement on such basic questions as what Brexit was for, what would constitute a successful Brexit and what a failure, etc. And this was seen pretty clearly in their policy on Ireland, which was (a) we don't want a hard border in Ireland, but (b) we are taking unilateral steps whose consequence will be a hard border in Ireland, and (c) we are extremely reluctant to do the things that would avert that consequence, and in some cases event to accept that we need to do anything to avert that consequence.

Faced with that position, it didn't matter how polished and expert a performance the UK emabassy in Washington put in; it was never going to be an easy sell. But it suits Brexit supporters to ignore that, and to blame the Washington embassy and the Foreign Office generally, because a distaste for the Foreign Office is a common trait among Brexiters.

01-02-2021, 23:34	#1
bilbot79 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 1,759 Adverts \| Friends	UK blames Irish Lobby for Brexit Failure https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/...-40036471.html It's a valid assertion, to an extent. From a moral perspective however I think they just aren't getting it. They see the fact that they weren't allowed to shaft Ireland as a 'failure' and a result of them not nurturing their own diaspora in the way Ireland has done. As if it's all a dastardly plot by those sneaky Irish to subvert UK interests. Our diaspora are intrinsically connected to us by our ancestral suffering at the hands of our British overlords. The lobby has strong roots in the genocide that gave rise to it and any British lobby will never be as strong because people unite through common suffering and not through the pleasure of oppressing other nations. Their study should really have said 'The Irish have had the moral high ground this long time and the 1.5 million displaced unfortunately never forgot the 1 million we starved to death nor did they ancestors. Now it seems the chickens have come home to roost'

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01-02-2021, 23:39	#2
listermint Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 27,446 Adverts \| Friends	Don't see any mention of Johnsons lapdogging following of Trump as being a turnoff to the established political classes in the US. Biden hates trump plus Johnsons antics around Obama etc would never have endered himself regardless of what UK diplomats copying of Irish efforts. The fundamental assumptions are entirely wrong.

02-02-2021, 08:42	#4
Wanderer78 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 20,909 Adverts \| Friends	Uk blames others for potentially one of dumbest political and economic moves ever made by a country, interesting!

02-02-2021, 08:55	#5
Peregrinus Registered User Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 20,756 Adverts \| Friends	The report is from Policy Exchange, a centre-right think-tank which has generally adopted a pro-Brexit, and pro-hard-Brexit, stance. And I think this is what accounts for the fairly obvious blinds spot in the report. It seems (from the account given in the Independent to proceed on the assumption that, if properly presented, the UK's position would have had as much appeal as Ireland's position, and it blames the failure to sell that position on underperformance by the UK's Washington operation, relative to the (much smaller, more poorly-resourced) Irish operation. Policy Exchange can't accept that the policy the embassy was being asked to sell was itself deeply flawed. In truth, the problem was not with the presentation of the position, but rather with the position itself. Even friends of Brexit will have to concede that the UK did an astonishly bad job of implementing Brexit - divided, incoherent, inconistent, contradictory, aimless, pointless and unfocussed. There was no agreement on such basic questions as what Brexit was for, what would constitute a successful Brexit and what a failure, etc. And this was seen pretty clearly in their policy on Ireland, which was (a) we don't want a hard border in Ireland, but (b) we are taking unilateral steps whose consequence will be a hard border in Ireland, and (c) we are extremely reluctant to do the things that would avert that consequence, and in some cases event to accept that we need to do anything to avert that consequence. Faced with that position, it didn't matter how polished and expert a performance the UK emabassy in Washington put in; it was never going to be an easy sell. But it suits Brexit supporters to ignore that, and to blame the Washington embassy and the Foreign Office generally, because a distaste for the Foreign Office is a common trait among Brexiters.