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Accepting HAP from Licensee under Rent-a-Room Scheme

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  • 24-03-2020 1:23pm
    #1
    roper1664
    Registered Users Posts: 228 ✭✭


    Hello, if I take a licensee/lodger, who qualifies for HAP, into my home, am I going to cause myself any extra hassle? Should I choose someone who is not using HAP instead? I understand the Rent-a-Room scheme well, I just don't have any experience with rent being payed via HAP.

    I've availed of the Rent-a-Room Scheme for years and I have had a mix of good and bad experiences. I want to try and avoid a situation that doesn't work for myself nor the potential lodger.


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    #2
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,160 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    I though HAP only applied to tenancies and must be regulated by the RTB?


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    #3
    roper1664
    Registered Users Posts: 228 ✭✭roper1664


    Claw Hammer wrote: »
    I though HAP only applied to tenancies and must be regulated by the RTB?

    "You may be entitled to claim HAP if you are sharing accommodation with your landlord. If you are renting a self-contained flat or apartment in your landlord’s home, the Residential Tenancies legislation applies to your tenancy and your landlord must register with the RTB. However, if you are renting a room in your landlord’s home, your tenancy is not covered by the legislation and your landlord does not have to register with the RTB."

    The above is from the Citizens' Information website.

    I'm not sure how it would work in practice though. Maybe I'm over-thinking it, but I have to protect myself. Whilst being fair to potential lodger.


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    #4
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,160 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    roper1664 wrote: »
    "You may be entitled to claim HAP if you are sharing accommodation with your landlord. If you are renting a self-contained flat or apartment in your landlord’s home, the Residential Tenancies legislation applies to your tenancy and your landlord must register with the RTB. However, if you are renting a room in your landlord’s home, your tenancy is not covered by the legislation and your landlord does not have to register with the RTB."

    The above is from the Citizens' Information website.

    I'm not sure how it would work in practice though. Maybe I'm over-thinking it, but I have to protect myself. Whilst being fair to potential lodger.

    Any HAP form I have seen requires the landlord to certify that it is a tenancy. The councils do not want to house a tenant in a situation where the tenant can be thrown out at the drop of a hat.


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    #5
    roper1664
    Registered Users Posts: 228 ✭✭roper1664


    Claw Hammer wrote: »
    Any HAP form I have seen requires the landlord to certify that it is a tenancy. The councils do not want to house a tenant in a situation where the tenant can be thrown out at the drop of a hat.

    Yes, it just doesn't seem compatible with the Rent-a-Room Scheme.

    Thanks all. I think I've my mind made up.


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    #6
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    A friend of mine has a HAP tenant in a rent a room scenario.

    Citizen's advice, which I know can be wrong, refers, in multiple places, to RAR and HAP being compatible. The only stipulation is that the property meets the minimum standards.


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    #7
    what?
    Registered Users Posts: 145 ✭✭what?


    Have done just that.
    It didn't work for personal reasons, but the HAP was reasonably straightforward, got a clearance cert from revenue.ie.
    Not asked for inspection.
    Took about 2 months to get paid from council.
    Its the usual, HAP pay last Wed of each month, lodger pays you the balance.
    My 2c, if person is unemployed watch the bills, lodger in question was home all day


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    #8
    roper1664
    Registered Users Posts: 228 ✭✭roper1664


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    A friend of mine has a HAP tenant in a rent a room scenario.

    Citizen's advice, which I know can be wrong, refers, in multiple places, to RAR and HAP being compatible. The only stipulation is that the property meets the minimum standards.

    Thanks for that. Do you know if he was subject to any regulations or inspections? I don't want to be vetted/checked in any way. I take pride in my home and I treat Lodgers very well. But I don't to be signing up to something that takes away a portion of control of my home!


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    #9
    roper1664
    Registered Users Posts: 228 ✭✭roper1664


    what? wrote: »
    Have done just that.
    It didn't work for personal reasons, but the HAP was reasonably straightforward, got a clearance cert from revenue.ie.
    Not asked for inspection.
    Took about 2 months to get paid from council.
    Its the usual, HAP pay last Wed of each month, lodger pays you the balance.
    My 2c, if person is unemployed watch the bills, lodger in question was home all day

    Thanks for sharing your experience. I've had two Lodgers who've moved in over the years, who each had the same story, telling me they work full-time and that they're always out socialising and doing outdoors stuff.

    One only left the house twice a week. Once to go to the shop and the second time to work in a shop for a few hours.

    The other one lost his job or left his job after two months. Only opened the front door for fast food deliveries and to go the the local shop every few days.

    Both were happy to set the camp and make do on the dole (rent's low). One couldn't pay me for a couple of Months.

    Were you subject to anything extra than what's covered under the rent-a-room scheme e.g., mandatory air vents or anything like that?

    I think I'm going to give this whole thing a miss, even though guaranteed rent is the one good novelty!


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    #10
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    roper1664 wrote: »
    Thanks for that. Do you know if he was subject to any regulations or inspections? I don't want to be vetted/checked in any way. I take pride in my home and I treat Lodgers very well. But I don't to be signing up to something that takes away a portion of control of my home!


    You could get a HAP inspection and if your home doesn't meet certain standards then you'd have to spend money rectifying the issues. It can be stupid things like the immersion switch not being allowed inside the hotpress if a fellow member of my OMC is to be believed. I agree with you 100% on control of your own home. I wouldn't take a HAP lodger personally - the friend of mine knows the person she's renting to.


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    #11
    jimmyrustle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 211 ✭✭jimmyrustle


    I rent a house and sublet the rooms (with the knowledge of the LL), to give myself a discount rather than any actual profit. What would be the course of action if a tenant said they now wanted to have HAP contribute a chunk of their rent? (I collect cash from everyone and lodge the sum agreed on the signed lease monthly. The landlord has the names and deposits of these people but he has never met them or given them any sort of documentation to sign bar a handwritten receipt of deposit, legally speaking I'd currently be the only person living here)

    Similarly, say my LL decides to sell up. I'd be looking for a room in another house and would be seeking to have HAP pay a contribution to it. Does it matter if the house is being sublet, as most house shares would be?


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    #12
    what?
    Registered Users Posts: 145 ✭✭what?


    roper1664 wrote: »
    Thanks for sharing your experience. I've had two Lodgers who've moved in over the years, who each had the same story, telling me they work full-time and that they're always out socialising and doing outdoors stuff.

    One only left the house twice a week. Once to go to the shop and the second time to work in a shop for a few hours.

    The other one lost his job or left his job after two months. Only opened the front door for fast food deliveries and to go the the local shop every few days.

    Both were happy to set the camp and make do on the dole (rent's low). One couldn't pay me for a couple of Months.

    Were you subject to anything extra than what's covered under the rent-a-room scheme e.g., mandatory air vents or anything like that?

    I think I'm going to give this whole thing a miss, even though guaranteed rent is the one good novelty!


    np
    Inspections never mentioned by anyone.
    She was here bout 14 months or thereabouts
    Too be honest, get someone similar habits to your self, similar work schedule etc...


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    #13
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,295 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    jimmyrustle wrote: »
    I rent a house and sublet the rooms (with the knowledge of the LL)
    Page four of http://hap.ie/uploads/files/pdf/landlord-booklet-english.pdf
    Proof of ownership/entitlement to act as landlord of the property with the
    landlords name and property address in one of the following forms as
    follows:
    a) Title deed or similar legal instrument proving ownership of the property,
    b) evidence of current registration with the Residential Tenancies Board
    (RTB),
    c) evidence of current paid buildings insurance policy/schedule,
    d) evidence of payment of Local Property Tax (LPT), or
    e) mortgage statement dated within the last 12 months
    So you could, but then you'd be registering the licensees as tenants, and they then have rights that they don't have now. You may also have to pay tax on what they give you, so the discount that it gives you drops.


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    #14
    jimmyrustle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 211 ✭✭jimmyrustle


    the_syco wrote: »
    Page four of

    So you could, but then you'd be registering the licensees as tenants, and they then have rights that they don't have now. You may also have to pay tax on what they give you, so the discount that it gives you drops.

    God my head hurts from that.

    When I moved in initially there were three lads here- one the sole registered leaseholder, two others who were living here. At the time all were unemployed and on the old rent supplement (wasters, don't ask).

    Seemed to work out then somehow.

    Thing is, if I ever had to move out, which obviously could happen if they decided to sell, I'm in a pickle. As a point of principle I would never pay 500, 600 etc of my own money to rent a room, I'd sooner declare homeless than become part of the problem. Even 400 I would find excessive for a room on my own. I make no apologies for it, I have a mortgage deposit to save and I have personal outgoings that don't deserve to be swallowed up by an unfair rental system, it' as simple as that. I probably take an average net of 2500 per month (took 36k gross last year so whatever that works out at) Realistically is it hard to acquire a HAP houseshare? Harder than acquiring a HAP flat on your own?


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    #15
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,295 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    jimmyrustle wrote: »
    Realistically is it hard to acquire a HAP houseshare? Harder than acquiring a HAP flat on your own?
    You'd have to have the tenancies registered, and the tax cert to say that you've been paying the rental tax that of the rent that you got of the tenants. IMO, you'd be digging yourself into a hole with Revenue that you wouldn't want to be in, and once in, will never get out of.

    And even then, you may need to get repairs done. Repairs that the LL may not be able to recuperate the money for, and thus may not do.


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    #16
    jimmyrustle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 211 ✭✭jimmyrustle


    the_syco wrote: »
    You'd have to have the tenancies registered, and the tax cert to say that you've been paying the rental tax that of the rent that you got of the tenants. IMO, you'd be digging yourself into a hole with Revenue that you wouldn't want to be in, and once in, will never get out of.

    And even then, you may need to get repairs done. Repairs that the LL may not be able to recuperate the money for, and thus may not do.

    Yet at the same time isn't it illegal for me to refuse, if they ask?

    Isn't it illegal for the LL to drag their heels on accepting a HAP tenant, particularly one already resident?

    re rental taxes et al, all I've been doing is collecting sums off three people, and adding in my own sum, to pay the monthly amount of 1600 odd as shown on the lease. I get my own large room at below what the market rent on it would be, but I don't profit as such, I just don't pay what the room would typically be worth. Same, I'd imagine, as pretty much everyone who sublets. Whereas if I was charging the three tenants 700, 700 and 300 I'd be getting free rent and 100 euro profit.

    One is from NZ and wouldn't be entitled. The other I'd imagine earns over the threshold so it wouldn't be an issue. The other is probably eligible but is so stoned he has been meaning to call Sky to bargain down his inflated sky sports for at least 3 years now, so I doubt this will ever cross his mind.


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    #17
    jimmyrustle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 211 ✭✭jimmyrustle


    Re reading page 4 I would have to think it falls on the actual landlord if one of the sub letters wants to go on HAP. Let's face it, no landlord rents a 3/4 bed to a couple or a single person who don't have kids and expects the rooms won't be sublet to make up the rent. They start making moves to get rid, it looks like they just don't want HAP tenants, which is illegal.

    Similarly, a couple rent a one bed flat at 1300 a month. Soon after they split up. I take it whoever remains can call the landlord and say that as someone who is taking home less than 35k they will now be enlisting HAP to part pay the rent? Do HAP attempt any in depth investigation to ascertain that the ex partner really is no longer living there?


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    #18
    circular flexing
    Registered Users Posts: 2,584 ✭✭✭circular flexing


    what? wrote: »
    np
    Inspections never mentioned by anyone.
    She was here bout 14 months or thereabouts
    Too be honest, get someone similar habits to your self, similar work schedule etc...


    I was inspected by HAP after 2 years. Relatively modern house, the only work I had to go was get the gas boiler serviced (which should be done anyway) and install CO2 alarms.


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