Weekend fights (Haye v Bellew II, Golovkin v Martirosyan, Spike O'Sullivan etc)

liamoreilly · 06-05-2018 6:06pm

...Surprised at how little credit Bellew is getting from the majority...He took the first fight, and everyone saying he would be killed...Yes it was luck that Haye did his leg, that led to Bellew winning...But Bellew did not have to take this fight, yet he believed in his abilities enough to do so...
...Again, so many people said it'll be a mismatch, haye will destroy him etc... Have seemed grand in the 1st 2 rounds and wasn't leggy in round 3 before getting knocked down...Whether his leg went again or not, Bellew did what he had to do...As someone alluded to earlier, he has won his last 10 fights, fought in his dream stadium, taken risks and come out on top...He deserves huge credit and respect imo...Not sure what'll be next for him, but for Haye it's 100% gotta be retirement...

walshb · 06-05-2018 6:15pm

liamoreilly wrote: »

Yes it was luck that Haye did his leg, that led to Bellew winning.

Reading this it seems that you are implying that it was only this that allowed Bellew win...

He was grand for 6 rds and Bellew was still there returning fire and being competitive.

No guarantee at all that Haye wins fight 1 had he not got injured. He could still have lost on points, and he could still have been stopped/knocked out..

liamoreilly · 06-05-2018 7:18pm

walshb wrote: »

Reading this it seems that you are implying that it was only this that allowed Bellew win...

He was grand for 6 rds and Bellew was still there returning fire and being competitive.

No guarantee at all that Haye wins fight 1 had he not got injured. He could still have lost on points, and he could still have been stopped/knocked out..

...Oh, yeah it kinda came out wrong...I think Bellew was well in the first fight before his leg went...

Blanco100 · 06-05-2018 8:38pm

walshb wrote: »

Going against the grain because I don’t agree that Bellew’s garbage?

Stop talking sh1t..

For a guy who rightly labels ricky burns and Anthony crolla as 2 of the worst "world champions" in the sport, to be championing Tony Bellew who is also the very definition of a paper champion, is what I find laughable.

He won a big money fight × 2 against David f*cking Haye, a shot David Haye at that.

It's hard to give him any props for that. If he goes out and beats a top class fighter at cruiserweight I'll be first to eat my words but that ain't happening. He will flute around chasing some other alphabet title against.someone the British public will swallow as a legend.

It's fights like Bellew v Haye why boxing is in the toilet

walshb · 06-05-2018 9:09pm

Blanco100 wrote: »

For a guy who rightly labels ricky burns and Anthony crolla as 2 of the worst "world champions" in the sport, to be championing Tony Bellew who is also the very definition of a paper champion, is what I find laughable.

Who’s championing him?

You are reading into things that just aren’t there.....

I disagreed when someone said he was garbage...that’s all

And I do think he is a league above Burns and Crolla...

If you interpret that as my championing him and bigging him up, fine...

The Nal · 06-05-2018 9:31pm

liamoreilly wrote: »

...Oh, yeah it kinda came out wrong...I think Bellew was well in the first fight before his leg went...

Haye was injured going into that fight aswell.

blade1 · 06-05-2018 9:54pm

The Nal wrote: »

Haye was injured going into that fight aswell.

As well as what?

walshb · 06-05-2018 10:03pm

Fook sake, Bellew hasn’t a hope for any credit with these pre fight injuries, during fight injuries and post fight injuries...utter nonsense.

The Nal · 06-05-2018 10:04pm

blade1 wrote: »

As well as what?

Last night. Hayes achilles was injured for both fights before the fights. Bellew deserves credit sure but he was fighting a guy with an injury that takes away movement and power. Haye looked like he had super glue on the soles of his feet.

Bellew broke his hand in fight 1 though and still KOd him so respect there.

walshb · 06-05-2018 10:05pm

Injured going into first fight. Then got injured during it. Posted injury info after it. Injured going into second fight, got injured during it, and all we’re waiting on is the post fight injury info......clean sweep!

We should get a 3rd fight the rate this is going.

nacho libre · 06-05-2018 10:18pm

walshb wrote: »

Fook sake, Bellew hasn’t a hope for any credit with these pre fight injuries, during fight injuries and post fight injuries...utter nonsense.

If he fights and beats Ward, i'll eat my words and give him all the credit. What i won't do is give him credit for beating a shot fighter. He does have decent power, which is why you probably like him, but against a prime Haye he's is not going to land those punches. Bellew admited as much, when he urged Haye to retire, saying father time is not kind to fighters with Haye's style. In others words Haye is not the explosive fighter he once was. Go look at videos of him against Mormeck or even Chisora and you will see the contrast between that Haye and the slow, cumbersome Haye in his last two fights.

nacho libre · 06-05-2018 10:20pm

walshb wrote: »

Injured going into first fight. Then got injured during it. Posted injury info after it. Injured going into second fight, got injured during it, and all we’re waiting on is the post fight injury info......clean sweep!

We should get a 3rd fight the rate this is going.

No. We should not. Haye needs to retire. I fear he loves the money and limelight too much, so he'll delude himself into thinking that he can carry on.

walshb · 06-05-2018 10:27pm

I don’t need to look at old Haye videos. I know he is past his best days..

Quite likely he fights on. His ego retiring off back to back KO losses to a fat scouser cruiserweight........

normanoffside · 06-05-2018 10:28pm

nacho libre wrote: »

No. We should not. Haye needs to retire. I fear he loves the money and limelight too much, so he'll delude himself into thinking that he can carry on.

I'm pretty sure it's because he is broke.
No Idea why Haye generates so much hype (reality TV?). He really wasn't that famous when he was good, i remember having to find a stream of the Mormeck fight as it wasn't on TV
His Verbal skills/thrash talking are atrocious.

StringerBell · 07-05-2018 4:05am

walshb wrote: »

Fook sake, Bellew hasn’t a hope for any credit with these pre fight injuries, during fight injuries and post fight injuries...utter nonsense.

Well, he isn't going to get too much credit for stopping a shot to **** Haye realistically is he?

He struggled to finish off a one legged man in the first fight, he was a bit better at closing the show in the second. Haye was pretty clearly not right from the off in terms of his weight distribution and footwork, you add to that his timing is gone completely and his balance is poor and you just have a big pile of meat in front of you begging to be punched.

Whether you think its utter nonsense or whatever way you want to dismiss views that go against your own is irrelevant. What is utter nonsense is that **** show was a PPV. Built up as a proper fight, a relevant fight. People paid money to watch that like, Eddie Hearn must be pinching himself with the way he has managed to con the British public in his partnership with Sky.

Bellew has made the absolute most of a limited skill set and a big mouth and more power to him. Haye did something similar but I would argue was a more talented boxer in his prime. Bellew is set up for life now, one would imagine as long as he is not foolish with his money. For him it has always been about providing a life for his family and I have nothing but respect for that aspect, I can still remember an interview with a young Bellew declaring he would fight anybody anywhere as long as he was getting paid, that it was all for his daughter etc and he would have seven shades of **** knocked out of him no problem if it meant she had the best in life.

I give him credit for maximising his earnings in his career, I give him credit for securing his future and looking like he could get out of the ring relatively unscathed. I don't give him much credit for beating that David Haye in the ring last night other than to say after the first two rounds where Haye got to him a couple of times he was ruthless and closed the show well.

walshb · 07-05-2018 9:09am

StringerBell wrote: »

Whether you think its utter nonsense or whatever way you want to dismiss views that go against your own is irrelevant.

What is utter nonsense is this incessant focusing on injuries.

We still have nothing definitive as regards fight 2.....and we have people ever so certain that Haye was injured before the fight and during the fight...

Haye got stopped in fight 2 because Bellew’s punches got him, hurt him and stopped him....end of. How Haye looked and fought is separate. He is not the fighter he once was. Injured? Let’s wait...

walshb · 07-05-2018 9:12am

pac_man wrote: »

Just got a chance to watch back the James Tennyson and Martin Ward fight. Great fight and the way it panned out, it reminded me of the time Tennyson fought Deco Geraghty. I wouldn't mind seeing Tennyson in with either of the lads again.

Agreed.

Difference being that Deco couldn’t burst a grape and would likely get steamrolled again n.

Ward was able to at least dig and hurt Tennyson to the body..

Thepoet85 · 07-05-2018 11:04am

pac_man wrote:

It's not a hyperbole, that's what happened.

Apologies, didn't realise you meant the previous fight.

megadodge · 07-05-2018 3:28pm

pac_man wrote: »

Just got a chance to watch back the James Tennyson and Martin Ward fight. Great fight and the way it panned out, it reminded me of the time Tennyson fought Deco Geraghty. I wouldn't mind seeing Tennyson in with either of the lads again.

Just after watching it now, having missed it on the night, but that was a terrific performance from Tennyson.

I really didn't rate his chances beforehand and thought it would be a clear UD for Ward, but Tennyson just wouldn't be denied. Well done James.

olkon · 07-05-2018 3:37pm

I have to agree that Haye must be desperate for the money. He wasn't fully fit and didn't mind looking a fool and ripping off people who paid to watch.
He's had quite a few big pay days. He must have bought a few too many race cars or something.

walshb · 07-05-2018 5:27pm

olkon wrote: »

I have to agree that Haye must be desperate for the money. He wasn't fully fit.

But what is fully fit to a part time 37 year old ex boxer? That’s really what he has been the past few years...

Johner · 07-05-2018 5:32pm

walshb wrote: »

But what is fully fit to a part time 37 year old ex boxer? That’s really what he has been the past few years...

Exactly, people going on about a fully fit Haye beats Bellew but there is no such thing as a fully fit version of this Haye. Age has caught up with him and he will always have niggles and injuries. Even if Haye was as fit as he can be at this age, I still don't think that version beats Bellew, his explosive style relies on speed and timing but he has lost all that. People can say it's down to the injuries and sure they don't help but he's just miles past his best anyway injuries or not.

blade1 · 07-05-2018 5:43pm

Johner wrote: »

People can say it's down to the injuries and sure they don't help but he's just miles past his best anyway injuries or not.

Probably the most sensible statement of this whole thread.

Fall_Guy · 07-05-2018 6:30pm

walshb wrote: »

What is utter nonsense is this incessant focusing on injuries.

We still have nothing definitive as regards fight 2.....and we have people ever so certain that Haye was injured before the fight and during the fight...

Haye got stopped in fight 2 because Bellew’s punches got him, hurt him and stopped him....end of. How Haye looked and fought is separate. He is not the fighter he once was. Injured? Let’s wait...

What exactly would you be waiting for? Haye is hardly going to come out and say "I know my leg was crocked before the fight but I conned you into buying the PPV anyway"....

....he did however say post fight that "I thought I was fit enough to beat him, but I was wrong".....which amounts to the same thing as above in my opinion.

Haye has always been about what he can put together off his sporadic explosive combinations during a round. Even in the first rounds he was winning, there was no sign of that explosiveness....and yes, that style of fighting never ages well, but it did look like he wasn't prepared to put any weight onto his right leg (and many had commented on it in lead up to fight also from footage of workouts).

To me it looks like he was significantly injured going into fight, and was happy to take the money and chance it. As you have said before, he was indeed "on the con''.

walshb · 07-05-2018 6:45pm

I understand that it's unlikely he comes out claiming injury right after getting stopped. But knowing Haye he will probably release some excuse, legit or not...

Anyway, he was shown up by a better man on the night who won because of "what he did," not because of what Haye couldn't do..

The Nal · 07-05-2018 7:42pm

walshb wrote: »

I understand that it's unlikely he comes out claiming injury right after getting stopped. But knowing Haye he will probably release some excuse, legit or not...

Anyway, he was shown up by a better man on the night who won because of "what he did," not because of what Haye couldn't do..

Cant have one without the other though. Achilles injuries are as debilitating as it gets. Not to say he wouldnt have lost anyway because hes clearly shot. But he was also clearly injured. Bellew did what he had to do but a bit of a shambles all said.

StringerBell · 08-05-2018 1:18am

walshb wrote: »

What is utter nonsense is this incessant focusing on injuries.

We still have nothing definitive as regards fight 2.....and we have people ever so certain that Haye was injured before the fight and during the fight...

Haye got stopped in fight 2 because Bellew’s punches got him, hurt him and stopped him....end of. How Haye looked and fought is separate. He is not the fighter he once was. Injured? Let’s wait...

So you seem to agree that Haye is not the fighter he was, why they would bellew deserve much credit? He gets credit for winning and closing the show in ruthless fashion.

He was fighting a guy clearly shot to ****, for whatever reason. We can wait to hear what if any injury is disclosed but it actually doesn't matter a whole lot. It can only lessen the credit due to bellew even more if it turns out Haye was not right yet again.

Fed up hearing about injuries? Fine, I'm only speaking about how much credit bellew deserves, either way.

nacho libre · 08-05-2018 3:18am

walshb wrote: »

.

Anyway, he was shown up by a better man on the night who won because of "what he did," not because of what Haye couldn't do..

He only got to do what he did, because Haye is a shot fighter, A prime Haye would not have been there to be hit so easily. His punches would have been more destructive too. Bellew has more or less admitted he only beat Haye because his timing and reflexes have gone. Also, if you watch the fight, it seems pretty clear Haye can't set his feet properly, which suggests his injury has not really healed. So all in all it's hard to give Bellew much credit for beating a faded fighter. It was a ruthless finish against a shot fighter. If he does that to Ward or Fury i'll give him all the credit in the world.

walshb · 08-05-2018 8:07am

StringerBell wrote: »

So you seem to agree that Haye is not the fighter he was, why they would bellew deserve much credit? He gets credit for winning and closing the show in ruthless fashion.

He was fighting a guy clearly shot to ****, for whatever reason. We can wait to hear what if any injury is disclosed but it actually doesn't matter a whole lot. It can only lessen the credit due to bellew even more if it turns out Haye was not right yet again.

Fed up hearing about injuries? Fine, I'm only speaking about how much credit bellew deserves, either way.

I never said he deserves "much" credit. I was arguing against the "total" dismissal of his win and his being labeled garbage.

It is not win of the century. Just a decent win against a past his best fighter, but one who still was dangerous.

There were several rds across both fights where both Haye and Bellew were swinging bombs, both men capable of knocking the other out. Haye landed several excellent shots in fight 1, and was millimeters away from landing possible fight ending shots in both fights. That's the nature of this sport where two big men are trading who can both ht hard. Bellew managed to get the best in, as well as take some good ones.

Credit. Yes, he absolutely deserves credit. And you have given it.

badabing106 · 08-05-2018 10:47pm

Hayemaker did a great service to the community by chinning that sploon dell boy. He looked as slick as prince naaseem that night. Wearing runners as well!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tShBLAqJ58w

blade1 · 08-05-2018 10:49pm

He could have done with runners the other night!

anthonyjmaher · 09-05-2018 6:58am

Fall_Guy wrote: »

To me it looks like he was significantly injured going into fight, and was happy to take the money and chance it. As you have said before, he was indeed "on the con''.

A lot of people are saying the same thing. I was pretty sure that before the first fight he was injured beforehand (not during the fight as Sky would have you believe). He was apparently in Germany getting work done on it the week of the fight. But seemed to want to just take the chance even though he wasn't right, because he needed the money.
Even though he said that he was fine before this fight, I think that was all part of the sales job. The achilles certainly would not have been perfect after the last fight, and then he added the shoulder injury during his training for the Dec 17th fight last year (which had to be called off). But he kept quiet about these because that would have affected sales.
It was all about the money and making sure the fight went ahead. I've always been a fan of Haye, but this was a con.

The man in red and black · 28-05-2018 9:43pm

Just wondering what are people's thoughts on this. I am not an expert or anything close on boxing just like following the hype really. Do people think Haye knew he was finished and ducked Shannon Briggs because he was worried he would get KO'd by a 45 year old? At least losing to Bellew he could say it was to a younger cruiserweight WBC champion.

To me it did genuinely look like Haye was considering giving Briggs a fight after he had him on his undercard on his second comeback fight?

normanoffside · 28-05-2018 9:54pm

The man in red and black wrote: »

Just wondering what are people's thoughts on this. I am not an expert or anything close on boxing just like following the hype really. Do people think Haye knew he was finished and ducked Shannon Briggs because he was worried he would get KO'd by a 45 year old? At least losing to Bellew he could say it was to a younger cruiserweight WBC champion.

To me it did genuinely look like Haye was considering giving Briggs a fight after he had him on his undercard on his second comeback fight?

I'd say he was planning to fight Briggs as that was the biggest money fight he could get at the time but remember that Bellew didn't actually win the WBC cruiserweight title until a week after that card.
Haye obviously changed his mind when he realised that he could engineer a bigger money fight against Bellew.

Bellew's first defence was only a few months later and against Flores- a friend and sparring partner of Haye who had been bigging him up in the media. Haye was placed ringside and ready to receive Bellew's call out. It was a big con job and both were in it.

badabing106 · 28-05-2018 9:59pm

The man in red and black wrote: »

Just wondering what are people's thoughts on this. I am not an expert or anything close on boxing just like following the hype really. Do people think Haye knew he was finished and ducked Shannon Briggs because he was worried he would get KO'd by a 45 year old? At least losing to Bellew he could say it was to a younger cruiserweight WBC champion.

To me it did genuinely look like Haye was considering giving Briggs a fight after he had him on his undercard on his second comeback fight?

I'd say haye as a fighter would have liked to face Briggs, but one meeting with his manager would have persuaded him otherwise. It's a high risk low reward fight

I Don't think Haye was conning people. I'd say he genuinely thought he would beat bellew and have another big fight. His body did not agree

walshb · 12-06-2018 12:43pm

I see conman, Haye has issued a detailed excuse ridden retirement statement...

He did not say that he was injured getting to the ring vs. Bellew last month and nor did he injure himself during the fight....

So there goes your injury excuses for that fight. He just got hit and hit again and then stopped...

Frank Bullitt · 12-06-2018 1:59pm

Good riddance, there is a prime example of a "what could have been" career.

Boxing won't miss Haye.

nacho libre · 13-06-2018 8:39pm

walshb wrote: »

I see conman, Haye has issued a detailed excuse ridden retirement statement...

He did not say that he was injured getting to the ring vs. Bellew last month and nor did he injure himself during the fight....

So there goes your injury excuses for that fight. He just got hit and hit again and then stopped...

Yes he could have given a classier statement that wasn't fully of excuses. Even if what he said is true, it would have been better to be more gracious in retirement. Bellew acknowledged he would not have beaten a prime Haye.

Weekend fights (Haye v Bellew II, Golovkin v Martirosyan, Spike O'Sullivan etc)

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