Weekend fights (Haye v Bellew II, Golovkin v Martirosyan, Spike O'Sullivan etc)

walshb · 05-05-2018 11:25pm

Morrison J wrote: »

So you're basically saying prime Haye would've got knocked out like that too? His chin hasn't changed. Sorry, but that's just so off the mark. Haye is a shell of a fighter.

I never mentioned prime...

Prime Haye I’d back Haye, but Tony could still land a KO shot..

blade1 · 05-05-2018 11:26pm

Morrison J wrote: »

So you're basically saying prime Haye would've got knocked out like that too? His chin hasn't changed. Sorry, but that's just so off the mark. Haye is a shell of a fighter.

Punch resistance can go and cause can be phycological imo.

Johner · 05-05-2018 11:26pm

Morrison J wrote: »

So you're basically saying prime Haye would've got knocked out like that too? His chin hasn't changed. Sorry, but that's just so off the mark. Haye is a shell of a fighter.

A prime Haye knocks Bellew out early, this version of Haye loses to Bellew 10 times out of 10 imo. Injured or not, his style does not age well. Timing and speed completely gone, obviously injuries don't help this either but they are still gone.

darced · 05-05-2018 11:27pm

This post has been deleted.

Blanco100 · 05-05-2018 11:29pm

Not like walshb to try his very best to go against the grain.

Bellew is garbage. Beating a limited version of a part time fighter is no achievement.

Making a show of himself now he can't stop yapping.

marvin80 · 05-05-2018 11:30pm

pac_man wrote: »

I wouldn't question his bravery. He basically boxed half of his last fight with a snapped Achilles. Do you realize how painful that is?

I'm not a big fan of him so maybe I'm being too harsh!!

Morrison J · 05-05-2018 11:30pm

walshb wrote: »

Morrison J wrote: »

So you're basically saying prime Haye would've got knocked out like that too? His chin hasn't changed. Sorry, but that's just so off the mark. Haye is a shell of a fighter.

I never mentioned prime...

Prime Haye I’d back Haye, but Tony could still land a KO shot..

So then it's not just chin and power. It's the fact that Haye is past it hence why Bellew deserves **** all credit.

trixiebust · 05-05-2018 11:31pm

The state of PPV fights that Sky put on are dire. Thankfully streaming has come along & I don't have to pay to watch these terrible fights anymore. I'd be gutted if I paid good money, on top of a subscription to watch fights like this.

walshb · 05-05-2018 11:32pm

Morrison J wrote: »

So then it's not just chin and power. It's the fact that Haye is past it hence why Bellew deserves **** all credit.

That’s harsh...

Deserves credit...

Nobody saying it’s the win of the century here, but no credit and practically slating him, as you are is well off.

Sprinter Sacre · 05-05-2018 11:32pm

If they could get it on the undercard of Joshua/Wilder, Bellew-Povetkin could be a goer. Povetkin looked very average against Price who is and always was dog sh*te and Povetkin isn't a huge HW either. Probably too much risk there for Bellew though. But then again so is fighting the winner of Usyk/Gassiev although the lure of potential undisputed champ is big.

Johner · 05-05-2018 11:33pm

Blanco100 wrote: »

Not like walshb to try his very best to go against the grain.

Bellew is garbage. Beating a limited version of a part time fighter is no achievement.

Making a show of himself now he can't stop yapping.

Bellew has won British, Commonwealth, European and World titles and has now set himself up financially for life, I'd love to be as garbage as Bellew.

walshb · 05-05-2018 11:33pm

Blanco100 wrote: »

Not like walshb to try his very best to go against the grain.

Bellew is garbage. Beating a limited version of a part time fighter is no achievement.

Making a show of himself now he can't stop yapping.

Going against the grain because I don’t agree that Bellew’s garbage?

Stop talking sh1t..

Morrison J · 05-05-2018 11:37pm

walshb wrote: »

Morrison J wrote: »

So then it's not just chin and power. It's the fact that Haye is past it hence why Bellew deserves **** all credit.

That’s harsh...

Deserves credit...

Nobody saying it’s the win of the century here, but no credit and practically slating him, as you are us well off.

I'll bow down to the man who's made millions fighting a man with one leg so.

If he goes down to cruiserweight and beats one of the best there he'll get all the credit in the world from me. He gets nothing for that cynical cash grab.

walshb · 05-05-2018 11:39pm

Morrison J wrote: »

I'll bow down to the man who's made millions fighting a man with one leg so.

If he goes down to cruiserweight and beats one of the best there he'll get all the credit in the world from me. He gets nothing for that cynical cash grab.

One leg my arse...that’s a huge exaggeration..

And like I said, it’s not like anyone is claiming it as win of the century. So you don’t need to bow down.

Did you not pick Haye to win?

akelly02 · 05-05-2018 11:41pm

ebbsy wrote: »

No he was just rubbish.

Well that’s just plain wrong. He clearly was injured. Again . Hes a crock simple as

walshb · 05-05-2018 11:43pm

akelly02 wrote: »

Well that’s just plain wrong. He clearly was injured. Again . Hes a crock simple as

Not saying he wasn’t injured, but maybe I'll have to watch it again.

Looked fairly ok to me. Won the first two rds...

This clear injury? How are people so clear...

Morrison J · 05-05-2018 11:43pm

walshb wrote: »

Morrison J wrote: »

I'll bow down to the man who's made millions fighting a man with one leg so.

If he goes down to cruiserweight and beats one of the best there he'll get all the credit in the world from me. He gets nothing for that cynical cash grab.

One leg my arse...that’s a huge exaggeration..

And like I said, it’s not like anyone is claiming it as win of the century. So you don’t need to bow down.

Did you not pick Haye to win?

His hind leg was only there for keeping him upright. He literally had zero push off it. Thought that was very clear to see.

I picked a fully fit Haye to win. That's not the fighter that turned up tonight.

walshb · 05-05-2018 11:45pm

Morrison J wrote: »

His hind leg was only there for keeping him upright. He literally had zero push off it. Thought that was very clear to see.

I picked a fully fit Haye to win. That's not the fighter that turned up tonight.

So how would the fight have panned out injury free? Haye KO?

Possibly...but also very possible he gets whacked..

Thepoet85 · 05-05-2018 11:45pm

pac_man wrote:

I wouldn't question his bravery. He basically boxed half of his last fight with a snapped Achilles. Do you realize how painful that is?

A snapped Achilles? No need for the hyperbole.

titan18 · 05-05-2018 11:47pm

Bellew could fight Charr for a World title tbf. Probably the only world title holder at HW or CW that he stands a chance in

akelly02 · 05-05-2018 11:47pm

walshb wrote: »

Not saying he wasn’t injured, but maybe I'll have to watch it again.

Looked fairly ok to me. Won the first two rds...

This clear injury? How are people so clear...

He was hobbling like my grandfather with a walking stick lord have mercy on him, how does this even need to be explained

walshb · 05-05-2018 11:50pm

akelly02 wrote: »

He was hobbling like my grandfather with a walking stick lord have mercy on him, how does this even need to be explained

Was he? That bad and obvious...

Like I said. I’ll watch it again. If I missed it I’ll gladly say so..

Maybe I was focusing too much on waist up...

ebbsy · 05-05-2018 11:50pm

walshb wrote: »

So how would the fight have panned out injury free? Haye KO?

Possibly...but also very possible he gets whacked..

I'd say he gets whacked either way.

Cos he's crap.

Morrison J · 05-05-2018 11:51pm

walshb wrote: »

Morrison J wrote: »

His hind leg was only there for keeping him upright. He literally had zero push off it. Thought that was very clear to see.

I picked a fully fit Haye to win. That's not the fighter that turned up tonight.

So how would the fight have panned out injury free? Haye KO?

Possibly...but also very possible he gets whacked..

Very confident he'd have won by KO yeah. Nothing wrong with Haye's chin so I doubt he'd have got whacked.

He went 12 with Klitschko no problem at all. The injury just doesn't let him be the compact fighter he once was. Because he has no hind leg his chin is in the air when throwing and he's off balance. That's all that is. He hasn't just become chinny overnight.

walshb · 05-05-2018 11:53pm

pac_man wrote: »

He was grand for them two rounds and then something flared up around the time of the knockdown. It was obvious and was dancing like bambi because he couldn't put pressure on his feet. Funny enough, Adam Smith remarked of "rumours" of Haye this week seeing the specialist in Germany again.

Ok, the “injury” became clear after the first two knockdowns?

Well, that is credit to Bellew. Did the knockdowns cause the injuries, or was his body scrambled because of them, making it appear that he was injured?

I am just throwing this out because I can’t recall a clearly injured Haye.

After he hit hit hard and dropped his appearance looked groggy and wobbly. But before?

Morrison J · 05-05-2018 11:56pm

pac_man wrote: »

walshb wrote: »

Not saying he wasn’t injured, but maybe I'll have to watch it again.

Looked fairly ok to me. Won the first two rds...

This clear injury? How are people so clear...

He was grand for them two rounds and then something flared up around the time of the knockdown. It was obvious and was dancing like bambi because he couldn't put pressure on his feet. Funny enough, Adam Smith remarked of "rumours" of Haye this week seeing the specialist in Germany again.

Honestly didn't think he looked good from the opening bell. His slickness of foot was just never there and definitely got that bit worse in the 3rd.

The fact Hearn put on the best undercard of his life is no coincidence I don't think either. Knew well Haye wasn't 100% and the main event was likely to end in farce.

Greyling · 05-05-2018 11:58pm

Nice one Tony. You can slag him off all you want but he boxed that very well.

walshb · 05-05-2018 11:59pm

Morrison J wrote: »

Honestly didn't think he looked good from the opening bell. His slickness of foot was just never there and definitely got that bit worse in the 3rd.

The fact Hearn put on the best undercard of his life is no coincidence I don't think either. Knew well Haye wasn't 100% and the main event was likely to end in farce.

Fair enough. I will rewatch it..

Few possibilities. Injured pre bell for rd 1. Or injured during the fight before knockdowns. Or injured after heavy knockdown 1&2..or not actually injured, just appearing wobbly and groggy post knockdowns...

trixiebust · 06-05-2018 12:02am

Either on the 1st or 2nd knockdown, Hayes right leg looked like it had almost collapsed under him.

Larbre34 · 06-05-2018 12:03am

Haye's true calling of A Question of Sport and League of Their Own awaits.

Pay per View my ar5e.

walshb · 06-05-2018 12:07am

trixiebust wrote: »

Either on the 1st or 2nd knockdown, Hayes right leg looked like it had almost collapsed under him.

Would the punches have had anything to do with the legs collapsing under him?

nacho libre · 06-05-2018 1:08am

walshb wrote: »

I never mentioned prime...

Prime Haye I’d back Haye, but Tony could still land a KO shot..

Not a chance. A prime Haye would be too quick. Also its clear Haye could not get full power into shots due to being injured again. Bellew will be soundly beaten if he takes on Ward. Nonetheless he does deserve credit for that title win at Goodison park.

sham69 · 06-05-2018 1:45am

Far from an expert and very rarely post in here in case of abuse

I am a fan of haye, a very good cruiserweight, never a heavyweight in my opinion.

Spent too long out of the ring at his age to think he could just walk back in to contention.
First 2 fights back were a joke.

First fight against bellew , you could see his body just wasn't able anymore. It didn't match the ego!!

Second fight : I really thought (and I said this to friends pre-fight) , if his body holds up , he'll destroy bellew.
I think I was wrong on both counts.
His body didn't hold up, but I honestly think even if it did , the power and belief is long gone.

The change of trainer and corner didn't help at all.

Time to call it a day ( he should have done years ago)

Fair play to bellew and I wish him the best of luck as he seems to be a genuinely nice guy , but I don't see much in his future either. He can only box what's in front of him which , lets be honest wasnt much in the last 2 fights !!

SeanJ09 · 06-05-2018 3:33am

Sad to see a world class boxer in his prime imo like Haye end his career like this. Prime Haye destroys Bellew without question. He carried British boxing during the noughties along with the likes of Ricky Hatton and Joe Calzaghe worldwide at a time when you didnt have have Eddie Hearn manipulating the talent of British Boxers.
Whatever Bellew does next, he gets smashed.

coulagh2017 · 06-05-2018 3:37am

Is he still on the vegan diet?

Morrison J · 06-05-2018 5:20am

Good statement win from GGG. Did what he had to do.

blade1 · 06-05-2018 8:40am

Morrison J wrote: »

Good statement win from GGG. Did what he had to do.

Clinical finish by GGG.
But anything less wouldn't have looked great for him.
I'd like to see a rematch with Jacobs.

Thepoet85 · 06-05-2018 9:46am

pac_man wrote:

It's not a hyperbole, that's what happened.

He wouldn't have been able to stand, never mind box.

Joeseph Balls · 06-05-2018 9:57am

Thepoet85 wrote: »

He wouldn't have been able to stand, never mind box.

Google the last fight, he did his achilles in the 6th I think it was.

The Nal · 06-05-2018 9:58am

I really like Haye. Fabulous earlier career.

Im not buying the age thing. Hes only 2 years older than Bellew. Haye was clearly injured from the start. Looked it in the public workout too. A farce of a fight. Shame to see his career end with back to back losses against a bum.

qwabercd · 06-05-2018 10:02am

Thepoet85 wrote: »

He wouldn't have been able to stand, never mind box.

Think you're getting mixed up, pacman was referring to the first fight between bellew and haye.

walshb · 06-05-2018 10:05am

This OTT glorifying revisionism....?

Haye was quite good....

But legend and fabulous career? When you dig deep it doesn’t go there for me...

MD1990 · 06-05-2018 10:37am

walshb wrote: »

Ok, the “injury” became clear after the first two knockdowns?

Well, that is credit to Bellew. Did the knockdowns cause the injuries, or was his body scrambled because of them, making it appear that he was injured?

I am just throwing this out because I can’t recall a clearly injured Haye.

After he hit hit hard and dropped his appearance looked groggy and wobbly. But before?

Haye's injury not being healed has been clear the last few days.

He is trying as much as he can to avoid putting too much weight on his right leg.

It is quite obvious really.

walshb · 06-05-2018 10:58am

I didn’t read too much on all this. So it was “rumored” that Haye was injured before the fight started? He fought with an injury?

He didn’t look all that injured/handicapped in the first few rds..

Granted, I wasn’t focusing heavily on his feet and legs...

blade1 · 06-05-2018 11:06am

walshb wrote: »

I didn’t read too much on all this. So it was “rumored” that Haye was injured before the fight started? He fought with an injury?

He didn’t look all that injured/handicapped in the first few rds..

Granted, I wasn’t focusing heavily on his feet and legs...

Paulie brought it up during the fight that haye was not putting weight on the foot that was damaged before.
Anything else is only speculation I'm assuming.

walshb · 06-05-2018 11:11am

blade1 wrote: »

Paulie brought it up during the fight that haye was not putting weight on the foot that was damaged before.
Anything else is only speculation I'm assuming.

Thanks. Yes, an observation from a pundit is all I know and knew...

And, really how clear and correct was this observation?

I am no medical expert or physio...

I’ll wait to hear more....

Was Haye injured from the start or did he get injured during the fight, or after the knockdowns, or was he injured at all? Was his groggy/wobbly appearance more due to the head shots that landed heavily?

And another thing: just because Haye may have “appeared” to Paulie to be not putting weight on his right leg doesn’t mean he was carrying an injury..maybe he was simply being careful-concerned-worried about creating an injury...

Maybe Haye at 37 is just the way he is. Normal wear and tear, not necessarily a defined and specific injury, for this fight.

This thread has a lot of “certainty” being bandied about regarding an injury.

walshb · 06-05-2018 11:47am

Morrison J wrote: »

Very confident he'd have won by KO yeah. Nothing wrong with Haye's chin so I doubt he'd have got whacked.

He went 12 with Klitschko no problem at all. The injury just doesn't let him be the compact fighter he once was. Because he has no hind leg his chin is in the air when throwing and he's off balance. That's all that is. He hasn't just become chinny overnight.

Not sold on this...

The first KD. Hit clean and hard and was proper dropped. Nothing to do with leg injury. His body didn’t allow him stay up from it..

Going 12 with Wlad? So what...lot of Wlad’s shots weren’t clean dynamite.

And anyone who knows boxing will know that big men, and Bellew is big enough, who can throw good clean shots are capable of knocking out other big men..

Haye’s chin was never something folks talked up...

Haye was hit, rocked and hurt by some good heavy shots. His chin and body didn’t shake them off sufficiently enough. And even if we assume he had a dodgy leg, it’s still possible that clean Bellew shots can do it...

Haye is not Oliver McCall or George Chuvalo in the chin stakes. Not even remotely close...

Bellew is not George Foreman either, but he can punch and he punches very technically correct, with good delivery speed. In other words, at 200 + lbs he is more than capable of hurting a 37 year old Haye.

walshb · 06-05-2018 12:15pm

Royalist Cavalier wrote: »

From the first round it was obvious Haye is in bad condition, whether that means injured or just old or a combination I don't know. But he is a shadow of his former self. .

Absolutely possible.

Even in fight 1 up to rd 6 (before any injury) he didn’t look like his younger self..

Frank Bullitt · 06-05-2018 12:28pm

In fairness to Bellew, that was a peach left hook that floored Haye. Regardless if his leg was gone, he was still in there so no excuses.

The Nal · 06-05-2018 5:07pm

Gintonious wrote: »

In fairness to Bellew, that was a peach left hook that floored Haye. Regardless if his leg was gone, he was still in there so no excuses.

When a fighter cant move theyre easier to hit!

Haye was injured from the get go. Coldwell sort of gave it away talking to Bellew after R1.

Weekend fights (Haye v Bellew II, Golovkin v Martirosyan, Spike O'Sullivan etc)

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