AMD Zen Discussion Thread

deceit · 02-06-2019 12:03pm

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Wait for reviews and give it a week or two, its very possible with the new design and cache, Ryzen 2 might not require "fast" memory.

I've my eye on this kit to upgrade from the 32gb kit:
https://www.mindfactory.de/product_info.php/64GB-G-Skill-RipJaws-V-schwarz-DDR4-3200-DIMM-CL16-Quad-Kit_1017417.html
but going to wait until we see reviews. Would be a waste buying fast ram if its not needed.

wotzgoingon · 02-06-2019 3:14pm

It will still be needed.

farna_boy · 02-06-2019 7:19pm

deceit wrote: »

I've my eye on this kit to upgrade from the 32gb kit:
https://www.mindfactory.de/product_info.php/64GB-G-Skill-RipJaws-V-schwarz-DDR4-3200-DIMM-CL16-Quad-Kit_1017417.html
but going to wait until we see reviews. Would be a waste buying fast ram if its not needed.

I thought I read somewhere that you shouldn't use all 4 dimm slots because it impacts performance.

Now I can't remember if that was for Intel or AMD, or where I read it but it might be worth looking into.

wotzgoingon · 02-06-2019 7:45pm

It doesn't impact performance it(well kind of) What gets impacted is Memory speed and timings are looser. You can get faster RAM speed and timings with just 2 sockets populated.

K.O.Kiki · 02-06-2019 9:40pm

Memory overclocking is also much harder with 4 DIMMs compared to 2.

One of the reasons the Asus ROG Corsshair VIII Impact is a DTX with 2 RAM slots.

Slutmonkey57b · 04-06-2019 12:33pm

Samsung have agreed to put "RDNA" licenced architecture into smartphones.

https://m.gsmarena.com/amd_and_samsung_announce_strategic_partnership_-news-37377.php

Anandtech see it as most likely patent coverage though.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/14483/samsung-and-amd-announce-multiyear-strategic-graphics-ip-licensing-deal-for-slsi-mobile-gpus

There must be something good in this that goes beyond what we've seen as AMD has struggled to get radeon into laptops on a performance per watt basis, never mind smartphones. Mind you samsung can't get design wins for their own chips in their own phones for the same reason so maybe they're not good judges!

Still, good expansion for AMD and anything that might improve competition in gpu is good.

Subcomandante Marcos · 11-06-2019 12:20am

Decent announcements from AMD just now. CPU's and GPU's look great value for money and all available next month (besides the 16c/32t cpu which will be in september).

Mr Crispy · 11-06-2019 12:26am

Really good showing, with Ryzen in particular.

BloodBath · 11-06-2019 9:57am

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

Decent announcements from AMD just now. CPU's and GPU's look great value for money and all available next month (besides the 16c/32t cpu which will be in september).

Is it a great showing with the gpus though?

Roughly matching the lower end 20 series in performance and price a year later without the extra cores that the 20 series has.

Nvidia is about to release faster variants of the 20 series at lower prices.

I can understand the premium pricing on Ryzen. They have earned it. They haven't earned the trust in their gpu division to price 250mm gpus at around €500.

I'll be just going for the updated 2060 or 2070 instead.

will56 · 11-06-2019 9:59am

BloodBath wrote: »

Is it a great showing with the gpus though?

Roughly matching the lower end 20 series in performance and price a year later without the extra cores that the 20 series has.

Nvidia is about to release faster variants of the 20 series at lower prices.

I can understand the premium pricing on Ryzen. They have earned it. They haven't earned the trust in their gpu division to price 250mm gpus at around €500.

I'll be just going for the updated 2060 or 2070 instead.

Seems to be the general consensus online as well.
People were hoping for either better performance or lower prices.

Subcomandante Marcos · 11-06-2019 10:05am

The 5700 xt is cheaper and faster than the 2070 that's not lower end, that's damned good value for money. Nobody expected something the that could outperform a RTX Titan for $500 so why would people not be happy with what we got? Who really cares about the extra cores on Nvidia cards, they're effectively useless for the next 2-3 years anyway. Raytracing is not ready for mainstream high fps and won't be anytime soon. DLSS is also a bit of a busted flush.

BloodBath · 11-06-2019 10:10am

Will wait for benchmarks to be sure of course but overall it's pretty disappointing so far.

These are Polaris level gpu's in terms of size and memory priced at nearly double that of Polaris.

The 2070 die size is 445mm squared. The top Navi is 250mm. Die size is completely relevant to cost price. They use the same memory. There is no way they should be in the same price ball park. Yields must be low or something. Otherwise this is terrible marketing.

Is it faster? They said 15% faster in 1 game that favors AMD as it uses Vulkan.

finlaycm · 11-06-2019 12:17pm

Good showing on the 16 core CPU, cheaper than I would have thought and same TDP as my 2700x wow.

I want to upgrade my 780ti to something that can handle UW 1440p.

I was waiting for the 5700 but it's more expensive than I would have thought so I'm a bit disappointed on that. Was eyeing spending 300 or so, but I might as well get a second hand pascal card. I'm totally out of the loop on GPUs so no idea if a 5700 be that much of an uplift from a 780ti

Subcomandante Marcos · 11-06-2019 12:24pm

finlaycm wrote: »

Good showing on the 16 core CPU, cheaper than I would have thought and same TDP as my 2700x wow.

I want to upgrade my 780ti to something that can handle UW 1440p.

I was waiting for the 5700 but it's more expensive than I would have thought so I'm a bit disappointed on that. Was eyeing spending 300 or so, but I might as well get a second hand pascal card. I'm totally out of the loop on GPUs so no idea if a 5700 be that much of an uplift from a 780ti

It would be a massive uplift. Your current card is 6 almost 6 years old. Any half decent Pascal or Polaris card will be a huge upgrade. Even a second hand 6gb 1060 or 8gb RX570 would be worthwhile upgrades for you right now.

If you don't want to spend more than 300 your best bet right now would be along the lines of a Vega 56, gtx 1070 or gtx 1660, all can be got for decent prices at the minute.

Or spend a little extra in a month's time (wait for benchmarks) for whatevers best between the 2060 and 5700.

Cuddlesworth · 11-06-2019 2:16pm

will56 wrote: »

Seems to be the general consensus online as well.
People were hoping for either better performance or lower prices.

People can hope what they want, AMD is sadly in the position that even if they did release a 2080ti killer, people would just sit back and wait for the 2080ti to drop in price.

Right now, AMD can sell a smaller chip with what I assume is a better profit margin against Nvidias RTX lineup and compete(allegedly) because Nvidia is priced so damm high for what they are. So why not?

K.O.Kiki · 11-06-2019 6:35pm

https://twitter.com/BryanHeemskerk/status/1138467713393803264

Icyseanfitz · 11-06-2019 8:56pm

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

People can hope what they want, AMD is sadly in the position that even if they did release a 2080ti killer, people would just sit back and wait for the 2080ti to drop in price.

Right now, AMD can sell a smaller chip with what I assume is a better profit margin against Nvidias RTX lineup and compete(allegedly) because Nvidia is priced so damm high for what they are. So why not?

I'd love to jump back to amd if they had a flagship GPU at a sensible price (700-800)

TitianGerm · 11-06-2019 10:05pm

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

I'd love to jump back to amd if they had a flagship GPU at a sensible price (700-800)

Is the Radeon VII not around €750?

Icyseanfitz · 11-06-2019 10:07pm

TitianGerm wrote: »

Is the Radeon VII not around €750?

yes but it only trades blows with a 1080ti if that, i have a 1080ti so it would be a pointless sidegrade. As a point of interest i bought my 1080ti around 2.5 years ago for around 800, the vii, a card that has just around that level of performance released in 2019 is basically the same price. Not a nvidia shill either, their just as guilty for making the gpu space useless

z0oT · 12-06-2019 8:13am

AMD's strategy for the last two generations has been to target the mid-range first and bring something to the high end at a later date.

There'll likely be higher end stuff than the RX 5700XT that'll target the GTX 2080 & 2080Ti.

Although I kind of agree with some of the negative sentiment above as Nvidia aren't standing still. But I wouldn't rule out myself getting a RX 5700XT as an upgrade to my GTX 1070 in the future assuming reviews of it are good.

Cuddlesworth · 12-06-2019 10:46am

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

I'd love to jump back to amd if they had a flagship GPU at a sensible price (700-800)

Sensible price? The price of a entire PC is not sensible.

TitianGerm · 12-06-2019 10:58am

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Sensible price? The price of a entire PC is not sensible.

It might be sensible to him though.

I couldn't justify that sort of money for a GPU but if you earn 100k+ €700 is nothing. Or if you don't drink or smoke you'd have a few euro extra lying around.

Icyseanfitz · 12-06-2019 6:49pm

TitianGerm wrote: »

It might be sensible to him though.

I couldn't justify that sort of money for a GPU but if you earn 100k+ €700 is nothing. Or if you don't drink or smoke you'd have a few euro extra lying around.

I don't earn any great amount of money but my mortgage is low, and I don't drink a lot, I spend money on things I like, so computers, mountain bikes, holidays etc. Saying that, 800 is the limit for a single component like a GPU. And the majority of the time I'm able to sell on my current GPU to offset the cost. I'm an enthusiast and I play at 4k, so I need high end hardware.

Skerries · 14-06-2019 9:59pm

has anyone installed win 10 1903 yet on AMD?
I also updated my chipset

https://www.techradar.com/news/windows-10-may-2019-update-brings-amd-performance-boost

just ran 3DMark and my score on Firestrike went from 17753 to 18902

TitianGerm · 15-06-2019 1:00am

Skerries wrote: »

has anyone installed win 10 1903 yet on AMD?
I also updated my chipset

https://www.techradar.com/news/windows-10-may-2019-update-brings-amd-performance-boost

just ran 3DMark and my score on Firestrike went from 17753 to 18902

I updated on Wednesday to get GamePass Ultimate. Will run 3D Mark tomorrow and see if my scores increase.

z0oT · 15-06-2019 10:11am

B550 boards won't arrive until 2020 apparently according to this:
https://www.techpowerup.com/256547/asmedia-sourced-amd-b550-a520-chipset-motherboards-arrive-in-2020

This was also saying the X570 boards are to be quite expensive, although some of the prices they list don't suggest they'll be that different to the X470 boards. The more standard boards anyway, the "extreme" stuff was always crazy expensive.

https://www.techpowerup.com/256443/alleged-asus-amd-x570-motherboard-price-list-paints-a-horror-story

BloodBath · 15-06-2019 6:06pm

X590 boards on the way as well with more PCIe lanes.

game4it70 · 15-06-2019 6:22pm

BloodBath wrote: »

X590 boards on the way as well with more PCIe lanes.

I'd imagine they are going to be silly money.

Serephucus · 15-06-2019 6:38pm

BloodBath wrote: »

X590 boards on the way as well with more PCIe lanes.

That seems like a really weird move to me.

The CPU only has so many lanes. What are they going to do, multiplex more into the chipset? You'll still be bandwidth limited. And that's not mentioning the fact that by doing this they'd make Threadripper 3000 even more niche.

GHOST MGG · 15-06-2019 7:09pm

Can only imagine how much the x590 boards will cost,if the rumoured x570 boards are 60% more expensive than equivalent x470 at launch..

z0oT · 16-06-2019 6:49am

Serephucus wrote: »

That seems like a really weird move to me.

The CPU only has so many lanes. What are they going to do, multiplex more into the chipset? You'll still be bandwidth limited. And that's not mentioning the fact that by doing this they'd make Threadripper 3000 even more niche.

Trolling Intel & their Z390 is the 1st thing that comes to mind...

Inviere · 16-06-2019 10:47am

So I'll be building a new rig for someone for Christmas, and was planning a Zen 2 build. I don't fancy the extra cost of the Z570's, and can't wait until next year for the B550's, so Z470 seems the only option for a 'sensible-performance' build this year?

K.O.Kiki · 16-06-2019 11:17am

Inviere wrote: »

So I'll be building a new rig for someone for Christmas, and was planning a Zen 2 build. I don't fancy the extra cost of the Z570's, and can't wait until next year for the B550's, so Z470 seems the only option for a 'sensible-performance' build this year?

B450 is fine too, as long as you're staying under 8 core you should be grand if the VRM doesn't suck.

Inviere · 16-06-2019 11:42am

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

B450 is fine too, as long as you're staying under 8 core you should be grand if the VRM doesn't suck.

I'd be looking at between the 3700X and the 3800X, so figured a Z level board would be needed no?

wotzgoingon · 16-06-2019 12:05pm

X not Z. Just thought I would point that out.

No it's not Intel so a b board can overclock as well as a X. But X has more features like Lanes etc...

BloodBath · 16-06-2019 7:16pm

Serephucus wrote: »

That seems like a really weird move to me.

The CPU only has so many lanes. What are they going to do, multiplex more into the chipset? You'll still be bandwidth limited. And that's not mentioning the fact that by doing this they'd make Threadripper 3000 even more niche.

Threadripper will still have more lanes and up the twice the amount of cores. Don't think it will disrupt that market too much.

Serephucus · 16-06-2019 7:19pm

BloodBath wrote: »

Threadripper will still have more lanes and up the twice the amount of cores. Don't think it will disrupt that market too much.

I know. I'm very keenly eyeing a Threadripper 3000 upgrade myself.

I just think it's a really narrow market. EPCY isn't that much more expensive, and there are workstation boards for Threadripper that are comparable to EPYC as well.

Maybe it won't disrupt things too much, we'll have to see. From specs though, it does seem like there's going to be a lot of overlap.

will56 · 17-06-2019 9:31pm

Possible EU Ryzen pricing ?

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/c1opju/ryzen_3000_prices_in_europe/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

z0oT · 18-06-2019 9:22am

will56 wrote: »

Possible EU Ryzen pricing ?

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/c1opju/ryzen_3000_prices_in_europe/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

329USD is what AMD have said for the 3700X. Based on that, €350 is probably a good best case figure for us over here.

Although in the short term, I would expect a bit of a shortage and elevated prices until the supply increases. I'd say it'll be quite a while before we see the 3700X for €350.

Time will tell though.

will56 · 18-06-2019 9:24am

z0oT wrote: »

329USD is what AMD have said for the 3700X. Based on that, €350 is probably a good best case figure for us over here.

Although in the short term, I would expect a bit of a shortage and elevated prices until the supply increases. I'd say it'll be quite a while before we see the 3700X for €350.

Time will tell though.

Might we worth holding tight until Cyber Monday end of year to see the better deals/bundles ?

z0oT · 18-06-2019 10:19am

will56 wrote: »

Might we worth holding tight until Cyber Monday end of year to see the better deals/bundles ?

Certainly could be.

I think I'm holding tight for a B550 ITX motherboard. I remember seeing that we might have to wait until 2020 for those.

I don't particularly like the idea of a chipset fan, and I don't think PCIe 4.0 will matter for a long time to come, but I'm guessing the PCIe 4.0 will still be on all the lanes connected to the CPU at least on the B550 stuff.

That should be fine for a GPU & an NVMe SSD which is what most will want anyway.

Cuddlesworth · 18-06-2019 5:50pm

Skerries wrote: »

has anyone installed win 10 1903 yet on AMD?
I also updated my chipset

https://www.techradar.com/news/windows-10-may-2019-update-brings-amd-performance-boost

just ran 3DMark and my score on Firestrike went from 17753 to 18902

It seems to have effect on apps that only really scale to 1 CCX on current gen Ryzen.

K.O.Kiki · 18-06-2019 5:51pm

z0oT wrote: »

Certainly could be.

I think I'm holding tight for a B550 ITX motherboard. I remember seeing that we might have to wait until 2020 for those.

I don't particularly like the idea of a chipset fan, and I don't think PCIe 4.0 will matter for a long time to come, but I'm guessing the PCIe 4.0 will still be on all the lanes connected to the CPU at least on the B550 stuff.

That should be fine for a GPU & an NVMe SSD which is what most will want anyway.

You could also just get MSI B450I-Gaming Plus AC or ASUS ROG STRIX B450-I Gaming, they're rated highly suitable for overclocked 8-cores.

The MSI has better VRM but the ASUS has dual-M2.

z0oT · 19-06-2019 9:13am

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

You could also just get MSI B450I-Gaming Plus AC or ASUS ROG STRIX B450-I Gaming, they're rated highly suitable for overclocked 8-cores.

The MSI has better VRM but the ASUS has dual-M2.

Definitely an option yes. I have a Ryzen 3 2200G in my server too so no issues flashing a new B450 board if I have to.

I actually didn't think the PCIe lanes connected to the CPU would actually run at 4.0 speeds if you put a Zen 2 into a B450, but it doesn't seem that'll be true, at least in the case of Gigabyte boards...

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/gigabyte-amd-ryzen-3000-pcie-4.0-x470,39377.html

Not sure if there's been any word from ASRock, Asus or MSI yet.

Inviere · 20-06-2019 6:31pm

Are we expecting Zen 1.5 prices to drop any further, once Zen 2 hits shelves? Am mulling between a Ryzen 2600 and 2700 (for an Unraid build, not a gaming rig) and am not sure if buying now is a great idea?

K.O.Kiki · 20-06-2019 8:38pm

Inviere wrote: »

Are we expecting Zen 1.5 prices to drop any further, once Zen 2 hits shelves? Am mulling between a Ryzen 2600 and 2700 (for an Unraid build, not a gaming rig) and am not sure if buying now is a great idea?

I'm surprised Zen 1 is still in stock anywhere tbh.

Both older generations have probably been out of production for a few weeks/months at this stage, if you see a big drop (30-50) you might want to buy.

Inviere · 22-06-2019 8:41am

Good spot - I'd say €130 is about as lot as they're going to go before getting hard to find? Any crystal ball readings on the 2700, it's still over €200...

Cuddlesworth · 24-06-2019 8:58am

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

I'm surprised Zen 1 is still in stock anywhere tbh.

Both older generations have probably been out of production for a few weeks/months at this stage, if you see a big drop (30-50) you might want to buy.

I think Zen 1 is still being produced and I would take a guess that they can sell at those prices and still turn a profit.

TerrorFirmer · 24-06-2019 10:30am

I've seen the 1700 for as little as £130, for a general productivity/editing machine, that's pretty insane value.

.G. · 24-06-2019 5:51pm

Possible Euro prices for Ryzen 3000

https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/ryzen-3000-processors-are-getting-listed-ryzen-9-3900x-for-%E2%82%AC-550.html

AMD Zen Discussion Thread

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