Renting a room...Ripped off?

Desperately lonely · 07-09-2020 9:58pm #1

Hi

I rented a room in a 5 bedroom house a few months ago.
Its literally my first time being away from home.
I'm a very anxious person in general & i just wanted to share my thoughts & get your opinions please.

Well there was no contract or anything at all signs when i moved in. I was told bills are divided equally.
To be honest i havent settled in & am still spending a lot of time at home. Rent & bills seem very expensive!
There's 4 of us living there & as one works from home is the only one there full time. I'm not there a lot & the other two guys are in evenings. They go home every weekend.

So in my opinion bills are very bizzare. I'm beating myself up at the moment cause I've handed over cash towards rent & bills but have NEVER actually seen a bill with my own eyes.
The other housemates seem to be able to afford any amount & dont care but I'm left dreading the bills text!

I've asked her 4 times now to see one/any of the bills & am always brushed off!

I cant really go into much details....I'll just say there was a few things not working correctly & the Landlady was told but she never fixed or even attempted to have someone look etc.

I just think we're paying her own bills on top of ours at this point. I mean if theres nothing to hide, why not show me a bill?

I think she's taking the p**s but no one else will kinda back me up. Is there anything i can do? Other than refuse to pay until i see a bill to see how its 'divided equally'

Heres Johnny · 07-09-2020 10:55pm

Desperately lonely wrote: »

Hi

I rented a room in a 5 bedroom house a few months ago.
Its literally my first time being away from home.
I'm a very anxious person in general & i just wanted to share my thoughts & get your opinions please.

Well there was no contract or anything at all signs when i moved in. I was told bills are divided equally.
To be honest i havent settled in & am still spending a lot of time at home. Rent & bills seem very expensive!
There's 4 of us living there & as one works from home is the only one there full time. I'm not there a lot & the other two guys are in evenings. They go home every weekend.

So in my opinion bills are very bizzare. I'm beating myself up at the moment cause I've handed over cash towards rent & bills but have NEVER actually seen a bill with my own eyes.
The other housemates seem to be able to afford any amount & dont care but I'm left dreading the bills text!

I've asked her 4 times now to see one/any of the bills & am always brushed off!

I cant really go into much details....I'll just say there was a few things not working correctly & the Landlady was told but she never fixed or even attempted to have someone look etc.

I just think we're paying her own bills on top of ours at this point. I mean if theres nothing to hide, why not show me a bill?

I think she's taking the p**s but no one else will kinda back me up. Is there anything i can do? Other than refuse to pay until i see a bill to see how its 'divided equally'

How much are you being charged for each bill?
We that have been paying them for years will be able to give you a good idea if they are fair or not

Agent Smith · 07-09-2020 11:06pm

Desperately lonely wrote: »

Hi

I rented a room in a 5 bedroom house a few months ago.
Its literally my first time being away from home.
I'm a very anxious person in general & i just wanted to share my thoughts & get your opinions please.

Well there was no contract or anything at all signs when i moved in. I was told bills are divided equally.
To be honest i havent settled in & am still spending a lot of time at home. Rent & bills seem very expensive!
There's 4 of us living there & as one works from home is the only one there full time. I'm not there a lot & the other two guys are in evenings. They go home every weekend.

So in my opinion bills are very bizzare. I'm beating myself up at the moment cause I've handed over cash towards rent & bills but have NEVER actually seen a bill with my own eyes.
The other housemates seem to be able to afford any amount & dont care but I'm left dreading the bills text!

I've asked her 4 times now to see one/any of the bills & am always brushed off!

I cant really go into much details....I'll just say there was a few things not working correctly & the Landlady was told but she never fixed or even attempted to have someone look etc.

I just think we're paying her own bills on top of ours at this point. I mean if theres nothing to hide, why not show me a bill?

I think she's taking the p**s but no one else will kinda back me up. Is there anything i can do? Other than refuse to pay until i see a bill to see how its 'divided equally'

Say you need a copy of the bill for work, as you are getting an allowence

refuse to pay until you get a copy.

Stand your ground

BrokenArrows · 08-09-2020 7:43am

Just refuse to pay until you see the bill.

As for the landlord fixing things, you just need to keep chasing the landlord to fix the things every week.

colm_mcm · 08-09-2020 7:46am

What sort of numbers are we talking?

Samuel T. Cogley · 08-09-2020 9:10am

If she also lives in the house, there is very little you can do. You're a licencee and it's her way or the highway.

08-09-2020 9:15am

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

If she also lives in the house, there is very little you can do. You're a licencee and it's her way or the highway.

Whereas if this is just a fellow tenant who has taken up the role of liaising with the landlord regarding paying the rent, that doesn't arise.

Xterminator · 08-09-2020 9:16am

Hi Op

you feel the rent and bills combo is a bit high. you dont trust that the bills are being spilt evenly. How likely do you judge it is the landlady will change her ways? I would say not too likely at all.

But you are not tied down to a lease, so the easiest thing here would be to find somewhere you feel more comfortable , then had the required notice.

Del2005 · 08-09-2020 9:20am

Agent Smith wrote: »

Say you need a copy of the bill for work, as you are getting an allowence

refuse to pay until you get a copy.

Stand your ground

The OP appears to be a licencee, they have no ground to stand on.

stevek93 · 08-09-2020 9:25am

When I lived in shared accommodation the bills was printed stuck up on a notice board and marked of who paid what. Be confident with these dopes don’t pay nothing until you see what you are paying.

amadangomor · 08-09-2020 9:53am

The person working from home is obviously racking up most of the bills so should pay a larger contribution.

Big difference with all appliances, lighting etc going all day than only on for 6/7 hours in the evening.

With winter coming what's to stop them having the heating on all day and the OP having to contribute when they are getting no benefit.

stevek93 · 08-09-2020 10:04am

amadangomor wrote: »

The person working from home is obviously racking up most of the bills so should pay a larger contribution.

Big difference with all appliances, lighting etc going all day than only on for 6/7 hours in the evening.

With winter coming what's to stop them having the heating on all day and the OP having to contribute when they are getting no benefit.

It depends I wouldn’t accuse them of racking up the bills, there is two of us in my house working at home since March and our electricity bill has been 40 or so every month. Ok yes you will use more but you aren’t going to be use a ton of energy.

08-09-2020 10:09am

amadangomor wrote: »

The person working from home is obviously racking up most of the bills so should pay a larger contribution.

Big difference with all appliances, lighting etc going all day than only on for 6/7 hours in the evening.

With winter coming what's to stop them having the heating on all day and the OP having to contribute when they are getting no benefit.

That's another debate really. This poster still has no idea what the overall is and what proportion they are paying. That's not right.

But, as has been pointed out correctly, if this is a room rented in a house occupied by the owner, there is no tenancy and you can be turfed out without cause on very little notice (a month in most cases), so it would be wise to tread carefully before falling out with the owner if that's the situation.

Even it the person collecting the money is another tenant, you don't want to pick a fight unnecessarily with the people with whom you live.

It would help the poster, who appears not to know what might be "reasonable" in general, if they replied with details of what they are currently paying out. People would be able to give them a steer on the question of whether these are objectively too high.

amadangomor · 08-09-2020 10:11am

stevek93 wrote: »

It depends I wouldn’t accuse them of racking up the bills, there is two of us in my house working at home since March and our electricity bill has been 40 or so every month. Ok yes you will use more but you aren’t going to be use a ton of energy.

It's not how large the bill is. It's about everyone paying their fair share.

If one person is using electricity/heating for 16 hours a day and another 5 hours how is it fair that they pay the same.

If we get a cold winter you may have to have the heating on all day.

stevek93 · 08-09-2020 10:23am

amadangomor wrote: »

It's not how large the bill is. It's about everyone paying their fair share.

If one person is using electricity/heating for 16 hours a day and another 5 hours how is it fair that they pay the same.

If we get a cold winter you may have to have the heating on all day.

No it’s not fair, but I am just advising the OP to be careful and not to ask to much I am not to sure how you would fairly divide out the bill it’s very tricky to do so as everyone’s usage is different.

When I was in shared accommodation there was a married couple who used to treat everyday like it was the last supper, constantly cooking the electric oven was on for hours on end. When they went on holidays for 1 month the electric bill decreased by 50%. Why we never said anything I don’t know we just didn’t want the hassle of arguing I suppose but they clearly took the p*ss.

bluelamp · 08-09-2020 10:32am

amadangomor wrote: »

If one person is using electricity/heating for 16 hours a day and another 5 hours how is it fair that they pay the same.

That's just life in a house share.

Some people will be in the house more, some less.

Any house share I've been in, bills are split equally, and of story.

stevek93 · 08-09-2020 10:33am

bluelamp wrote: »

That's just life in a house share.

Some people will be in the house more, some less.

Any house share I've been in, bills are split equally, and of story.

Yes, I have been in a few and all bills are split equally.

JohnnyChimpo · 08-09-2020 11:29am

stevek93 wrote: »

No it’s not fair, but I am just advising the OP to be careful and not to ask to much I am not to sure how you would fairly divide out the bill it’s very tricky to do so as everyone’s usage is different.

When I was in shared accommodation there was a married couple who used to treat everyday like it was the last supper, constantly cooking the electric oven was on for hours on end. When they went on holidays for 1 month the electric bill decreased by 50%. Why we never said anything I don’t know we just didn’t want the hassle of arguing I suppose but they clearly took the p*ss.

Cooking dinner, every single day? :eek:

It's a disgrace, Joe

08-09-2020 11:32am

JohnnyChimpo wrote: »

Cooking dinner, every single day? :eek:

It's a disgrace, Joe

The neck on them .

Desperately lonely · 08-09-2020 11:37am

Sorry i haven't given enough details. Landlady is not living with in the house.
The person who works from home has told me he's asked to see the bills on numerous occasions & is always brushed off too.
I learnt yesterday from that person that i am charged more for internet & bin than he is. So i feel i need to walk away.....we're all using the same bin & internet

theteal · 08-09-2020 11:43am

Ah, the good old "head" tenant is having his/her bills subsidised by you OP. Are these regular fixed amounts that you have previously agreed to? I wouldn't be paying another penny until I saw a bill tbh.

stevek93 · 08-09-2020 11:49am

JohnnyChimpo wrote: »

Cooking dinner, every single day? :eek:

It's a disgrace, Joe

No it wasn’t cooking a dinner everyday it was gluttony these people were very overweight. What they ate in one day would do me for a week. If you want to constantly stuff your face every hour of the day don’t make it someone else’s problem.

amadangomor · 08-09-2020 11:57am

theteal wrote: »

Ah, the good old "head" tenant is having his/her bills subsidised by you OP. Are these regular fixed amounts that you have previously agreed to? I wouldn't be paying another penny until I saw a bill tbh.

Aghh, you are bring back memories of old head tenants I shared with who treated it like it was their place alone, their rules etc.

No input from the "guest tenants" They were very friendly with the landlord and would drive me nuts as he would let himself in and make tea etc. and hang around.

Never felt like it was my home, always felt like a guest in their house.

Moved and the next share felt immediately like home. In fairness to them all bills were fair and transparent.

MrKingsley · 08-09-2020 11:59am

Desperately lonely wrote: »

Sorry i haven't given enough details. Landlady is not living with in the house.
The person who works from home has told me he's asked to see the bills on numerous occasions & is always brushed off too.
I learnt yesterday from that person that i am charged more for internet & bin than he is. So i feel i need to walk away.....we're all using the same bin & internet

So has anyone in the house seen a bill? If not then stop paying them immediately until the LL provides them as others have suggested.

Have the others signed a lease at all?

Peter T · 08-09-2020 12:01pm

OP, time to ask for a bill and see if they've been split equally. Raise the point now with the information you've heard from the other roommate, you want to see the bills and will not pay the next till then. Id be asking for all bills while you've been in the house. In the mean time start looking elsewhere

irish_goat · 08-09-2020 12:09pm

Any house I shared the bills were stuck on the fridge with a clear breakdown of who owed what and a tick put against your name when you paid. Only way it should be done.

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy · 08-09-2020 12:16pm

I’d reply to the next text that when I saw a breakdown, then I’d pay. Try and get the other tenant onside as well. They won’t be long producing the bill once they know nobody is paying until they do.

08-09-2020 12:36pm

Desperately lonely wrote: »

Sorry i haven't given enough details. Landlady is not living with in the house.
The person who works from home has told me he's asked to see the bills on numerous occasions & is always brushed off too.
I learnt yesterday from that person that i am charged more for internet & bin than he is. So i feel i need to walk away.....we're all using the same bin & internet

Although they might be happy to let you go, strictly speaking you need to check your lease regarding any notice you are required to give and the circumstances in which you can terminate. If the lease is for a fixed term there can be issued regarding early termination.

Your legal relationship is with the landlord not this other tenant so it might be beneficial to talk to the landlord first and tell them why you are unhappy.

That said, based on other things you've said (landlady not attending to repairs or whatnot) it could well be that there is a cosy relationship between the landlord and this other tenant, who has organised it so that they have control of the bills. Or simply that the landlord is one of those who just wants a quiet life (achieved by ignoring telephone calls and emails and having/lettiing one tenant keep the show on the road for them on site). Either way, if this is the situation any fuss you make will lead to them wanting to kick you out anyway.

Find out how easy it would be to secure comparable accommodation that meets your social/personal/professional needs in a more pleasant environment before you do anything drastic.

Also, how much are you actually being asked to pay and for what? You should assess what the cost of alternative comparable accommodation would be in the context of your overall spend. No point moving somewhere similar to pay more, even if the contributions are more equitable.

Del2005 · 09-09-2020 12:37pm

[quote="ecoli3136;114552169"

Your legal relationship is with the landlord not this other tenant so it might be beneficial to talk to the landlord first and tell them why you are unhappy.

[/quote]

The OP said they have no contract so they could be licenees of the tenant, it all depends on who they pay the rent to. I wouldn't be rushing to the landlord before finding out what their status is

Mrs OBumble · 09-09-2020 12:58pm

Whose name are the bills in, the landlord or another tenant?

paulieeye · 09-09-2020 2:48pm

Make sure you stand your ground until you see the previous bills too. Someones up to no good!

punisher5112 · 09-09-2020 2:53pm

Funny thing is, are the bills getting paid at all or under and then others will be hit like yourself op.

Get out of you can...

Tork · 09-09-2020 3:12pm

Would you mind telling us what you're being charged? If you never lived away from home before this, you probably never looked at an electricity or heating bill in your life. If you don't stand your ground now (or leave) you're going to get slaughtered once the weather gets colder and the heating bills start coming. Oil in particular can vary wildly.

In any house share I lived in, the bills were stuck up on a notice board or the fridge. They were always split evenly and that seems to be fairly standard as far as I can tell. If you go down the road of John works from home, Mary's only here 3 nights a week and Jim never uses the oven it gets very messy indeed.

Personally I'd insist on seeing the bills and get the other tenant on board too. And anxiety or no anxiety, I'd be looking around for somewhere new to live. Life is too short to live with someone who doesn't respect you. I'd be amazed if this person is being honest with you.

On the bills thing, do they come through the letterbox or is it paperless billing? All the providers have downloaded pdfs of the bills on their websites so it shouldn't be a big deal for this person to produce them.

inthenip · 09-09-2020 4:03pm

Yep, always should get to see bills.

It's always a scummy person that won't show you.

Even a pic to your WhatsApp would suffice.

I'd be withholding rent.

09-09-2020 4:06pm

You haven't signed anything, there's no official record of you even being there, and you're getting (you feel) charged over the odds?

I'd just pack up and move home. Wouldn't be bothered putting up with that.

CollyFlower · 09-09-2020 11:36pm

Don't understand why they're not showing you what you owe... Ask to see the bill before you pay.

Is the billing for everything? Like for electricity, gas, bins?

Graces7 · 10-09-2020 8:41am

We had this once with a landlord who was insisting the ESB was in HIS name and he would bill us... He was very reluctant to consider us having our own account but as I qualified for the Household package he had no choice.

He did not like when we checked oil usage ….

Always well worth " making a fuss" so the best of luck OP ..and if you face up to them with this you will ensure a hassle free tenancy.

zeebre12 · 10-09-2020 5:43pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You haven't signed anything, there's no official record of you even being there, and you're getting (you feel) charged over the odds?

I'd just pack up and move home. Wouldn't be bothered putting up with that.

But if you don't give a months notice you won't get your deposit back.

Def_IRL · 10-09-2020 9:36pm

OK, so why not just go to your ESB and GAS meters first thing tomorrow morning at note the readings on both.
Track the meter usage for two months or thereabouts (even on a weekly basis to start getting a rough feeling with regards expected average weekly / monthly usage and costs).

Assume for this that the Landlord has both the ESB and the Gas with Electric Ireland - is a on paperless/online billing/ direct debit billing (Value Reward tarrif or similar) and assuming no day/night electric metering.

Lets assume your meters show up the following readings after 60 days of usage: Electricity=278 units used & Gas = 60m3 used

Electricity costs over c.60 days (bi-monthly billing schedule) for say 278 units of used electricity (from meter reading difference) should be approx:

* Unit Usage 278 x 0.1693 = €47.07
* Dual fuel /DD/Online billing discount = (€ 4.00) approx
* Standing charge 60 days x €0.4037 /day = € 24.44
* PSO levy 2 months = € 5.68
TOTAL (EX-VAT) = €73.19
plus VAT 13.5% of €73.19 = € 9.88
TOTAL ESB INC VAT = €83.07

GAS costs (again over 60 days) assuming bi-monthly schedule - for say 60m3 of gas used:
--- 60m3 x conversion factor 11.1997 = 671.98 kWh - rounded =672KWh

* Unit Usage 672kWh x 0.04750 (unit price) = €31.92
* Dual fuel /DD/Online billing discount = (€0.50) (guessed)
* Standing charge 60 days x €0.2487/day = €14.99
* Carbon Tax €0.004471 for 672kWh = € 3.00
TOTAL (EX-VAT) = €49.41
plus VAT 13.5% of €49.41 =€ 6.67
TOTAL GAS INC VAT = €56.08

I assume you might also have some shared domestic Bin bills to consider in this house sharing scenario too?

PSO Levy Rate (effective as of 1st October 2019)
The current PSO levy is €2.84 excl. VAT per month which equates to €34.08 excl. VAT (12 x €2.84) or €38.68 per year inclusive of VAT.
You will see the PSO Levy on your typical two-monthly bill as €5.68 (€2.84 x 2) + 13.5% VAT.

Carbon Tax
From 1st May 2020, the tax for natural gas is €26 per tonne of carbon dioxide (CO2) emitted. All gas suppliers must apply the carbon tax to customer’s bills.
You’ll see the carbon tax rate on your bill as 0.471 cent/kWh. This is subject to a VAT rate of 13.5%.

circular flexing · 10-09-2020 10:47pm

I would say there's more than a good chance the bills are not being paid at all. Don't pay any more money to the tenant until you see a bill.

handlemaster · 12-09-2020 7:18am

has the OP said how much they are actually paying.. it could be 5 euro per month.hard to judge without actual figures. Green horns can be very surprised how much things cost once they leave the nest.

mcgragger · 12-09-2020 7:43am

OP you are asking for advice but not giving much details back?

Stop paying the Bills until you see that they are being split evenly.

You are either being taken for a fool or there is nothing to hide and asking to see the Bill's is a perfectly reasonable question and you dont need anyone else to back you up.

From the limited information you've posted it sounds like they are making a fool of you.

amadangomor · 12-09-2020 8:55am

bluelamp wrote: »

That's just life in a house share.

Some people will be in the house more, some less.

Any house share I've been in, bills are split equally, and of story.

Not end of story as the story has changed with Covid.

People were not home all day in any of my house shares so consumption was fairly equal so equal split.

With people using houses as a workplace and all the cost associated with that there will be very unequal levels of consumption.

zeebre12 · 12-09-2020 9:29am

amadangomor wrote: »

Not end of story as the story has changed with Covid.

People were not home all day in any of my house shares so consumption was fairly equal so equal split.

With people using houses as a workplace and all the cost associated with that there will be very unequal levels of consumption.

I recently moved into a house share sharing with two others. Due to Covid they are not working and lie about in the house all day everyday. I'm just there in the evenings 4 nights a week as I go home at the weekends and don't arrive back to the house until Monday evening. What can I really say to this?

BrokenArrows · 26-09-2020 7:44pm

zeebre12 wrote: »

I recently moved into a house share sharing with two others. Due to Covid they are not working and lie about in the house all day everyday. I'm just there in the evenings 4 nights a week as I go home at the weekends and don't arrive back to the house until Monday evening. What can I really say to this?

Nothing.
House shares have things split evenly regardless of usage.
Otherwise you will have people trying to say they only spent X amount of time in the house so shouldn't pay.

The plus side to a house share is that you are free to leave if you don't like the conditions of living there.

Samuel T. Cogley · 26-09-2020 7:57pm

zeebre12 wrote: »

What can I really say to this?

Bye, Bye?

Thargor · 26-09-2020 10:19pm

What should the average tenant in a 4-5 person houseshare be paying in bills per month these days do people know? Gas/Electric/Internet/Sky tv (non sports/movies)

BorneTobyWilde · 26-09-2020 10:32pm

All the experts on here who house share never said what they pay per month. .....

zeebre12 · 27-09-2020 12:40am

BrokenArrows wrote: »

Nothing.
House shares have things split evenly regardless of usage.
Otherwise you will have people trying to say they only spent X amount of time in the house so shouldn't pay.

The plus side to a house share is that you are free to leave if you don't like the conditions of living there.

Don't you have to give nearly a months notice to get your deposit back?

zeebre12 · 05-10-2020 6:20pm

The 'head' tenant that I was paying rent to seems to have fled the scene (with my deposit). I had not seen him in over a week after arriving back home after the weekend today to the house the other person I am sharing electricity with said landlord has been trying to contact 'head' tenant but can't reach him. I went up to his room and his room is cleared so seems like he is gone for good? I tried ringing him but no answer. I half suspected something was a bit fishy as the bins he said he was paying for never went (piled up) and he said heating is broken so hasn't really been turned on since I moved in. Where do I stand now? The landlord wants me to give him a ring.

Ronin247 · 05-10-2020 11:05pm

zeebre12 wrote: »

The 'head' tenant that I was paying rent to seems to have fled the scene (with my deposit). I had not seen him in over a week after arriving back home after the weekend today to the house the other person I am sharing electricity with said landlord has been trying to contact 'head' tenant but can't reach him. I went up to his room and his room is cleared so seems like he is gone for good? I tried ringing him but no answer. I half suspected something was a bit fishy as the bins he said he was paying for never went (piled up) and he said heating is broken so hasn't really been turned on since I moved in. Where do I stand now? The landlord wants me to give him a ring.

When you say "Head Tenant" is he /she the one with the lease?
Phone the Landlord and tell him it looks like the Head Tenant has left with HIS (landlords) deposit. Explain that you have paid bills for bins and heating and have received neither service. If the landlord was the one who put the Head Tenant in charge then it is the Landlords problem.
I would talk nice but firmly, if the landlord is decent (99% are) they will try to sort this out amicably but you should not be out of pocket.

Renting a room...Ripped off?

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