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Mortgage - low fee for breaking fixed rate

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Comments

  • Moderators Posts: 12,385 ✭✭✭✭Black_Knight


    This won't apply to all for sure, but I've got 3 years left on my Fixed rate UB mortgage, with 30 years remaining on the mortgage itself. Rang them up asking what the breakage would be and was told:

    • Ulster bank with have a MAX breakage of 6 X the monthly interest you pay.

    Finally got our actual breakage fee this morning. €0, Zero, Nada, zilch! Couldn't believe it. Getting set to move to Avant now and avail of their €1500 towards legal fees deal. Just hoping a few recent dumps into crypto doesn't scare them away... it's been a scary month to have crypto :lol:



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,491 ✭✭✭bidiots


    Check how long that rate is valid for quick, you might need to move to a variable in the meantime while transferring. I got the same as you a long time ago and within a month it had jumped up to 1000.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,737 ✭✭✭✭Bobeagleburger


    What year did you fix?

    The interbank rate at the time of your last contract change has a major bearing.



  • Moderators Posts: 12,385 ✭✭✭✭Black_Knight


    Said it's valid for 28 days I think. I'll believe that when I see it. Good point moving to a variable in the mean time. Anything/much involved in that if staying the same bank?



  • Moderators Posts: 12,385 ✭✭✭✭Black_Knight


    December 2019. Got a 5 year mortgage and said that'll sort us. No more moving. 2 years later....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,491 ✭✭✭bidiots


    Been there, paid a breakage fee to get to a lower rate and its just starting to pay itself now! Here we go again....Breakage fees letter normally arrive very late with just a few days to decide, unless that has changed



  • Moderators Posts: 12,385 ✭✭✭✭Black_Knight


    UB seem to calculate them on a Friday, so if you ring em on Friday you might be waiting a week to get it. Hopefully get mine in the post today.

    The gathering of info begins. Revenue docs is a new one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,460 ✭✭✭✭lawred2




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,476 ✭✭✭✭Ush1


    Just contacted UB and waiting for breakage fee quote. I'm on a good rate fixed until September but would be good to avail of the Avant cashback for solicitor fees.



  • Registered Users Posts: 641 ✭✭✭Summer2020


    What rate are people who are switching to avant hoping to avail of? We're on 2.2% with UB 3 years remaining on a fixed term. Expecting break fee to be 0 or close to it.

    Tempted by the 10 year 2.1%. it's great peace of mind. 7 year 1.95% also tempting but I'm concerned rates are only going to be going in one direction.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,542 ✭✭✭JTMan


    My UB break fee was close to zero.

    I went with the 1.95% rate. 5 years is long enough peace of mind for me. I think it is a toss of the coin as to whether rates will be higher or lower in 5 years.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,828 ✭✭✭masterboy123


    I am with PTSB, 5 years fixed at 2.95%

    Done 2 years so far.

    Any idea how to calculate break fee?



  • Registered Users Posts: 641 ✭✭✭Summer2020


    There's a specific formula they use, you'll need to ring them



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,753 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    I am with UB, fixed at 2.60% until 2023.

    I don't want to move to pTSB.

    The break fee and sol fee put me off switching to another lender, until Avant launched the 1,500 offer.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,468 ✭✭✭Bigmac1euro


    What happens if you pay breakage fee and avant don’t entertain you?

    do you lose the funds?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,753 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Apply for new mortgage first.

    Hopefully get Loan Offer from new bank.

    Then pay breakage fee.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,542 ✭✭✭JTMan


    Seems that most people are getting a low break fee. However, if anyone ends up with a high break fee, there is a chance that Ulster Bank and kbc will be forced to charge zero break fees, later in the year, when mortgages are likely to migrate to the new lender. Hence, if you were in the situation, with a high break fee, you might consider applying for the Avant offer now, so you have approval before 31 March, when the offer expires, but don't drawdown until later in the year. Avant allow this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 494 ✭✭timmyjimmy


    Do KBC give breakage fee over the phone?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,060 ✭✭✭chases0102


    Hi all,

    Informative thread.

    I have about 1.5 years left on a BOI 5 year fixed at 3%. Rang up for the craic to see what they could do in light of much better rates out there, and the possibility of seeking a breakage fee.

    They could reduce the rate from 3.0% to 2.9% with no changes to the term or conditions. Pretty miserable attempt to be honest but better than nothing.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,737 ✭✭✭✭Bobeagleburger


    Not in my experience. They call back, It can take up to 5 working days (ridiculous). The formula is pretty straightforward ffs.

    Anyway, their fee usually is valid for 10 days, then it'll change.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,342 ✭✭✭markpb


    I assumed mortgaged with those banks will migrate to a new bank on the same T&Cs. Why would they want or have to zero the break fees if customers aren’t being forced to break?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,904 ✭✭✭daheff


    We're with UB


    Have 2 parts to the mortgage - 2/3rds is on Tracker +2% (we moved a couple of years back and had to go to a higher tracker rate to move)

    other 1/3rd is on fixed 2.4%

    Have about 15 years left on the mortgage.


    Avant 10 year rate would mean a saving of about 100 quid a month. The saving over the 10 year fixed rate would pay about 30% of the remaining principal then.


    Talked with UB on break fees. They said its probably a fee of 6 months interest on the fixed rate. They estimated its about 600EUR but couldn't confirm 100% over the phone.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,417 ✭✭✭griffdaddy


    Is it possible to increase the amount you payback each month and reduce the term of the mortgage when you're switching or would the new bank want to stick more or less to the previous monthly repayment?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,460 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    they couldn't care less what your previous repayment arrangement was

    it's all about affordability... you can reduce term to whatever as long as it remains affordable



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,417 ✭✭✭griffdaddy


    Thanks, I'm planning to move from KBC to Avant and will probably look to increase payments at the same time



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,737 ✭✭✭✭Bobeagleburger


    How much can you overpay on an Avant fixed rate mortgage?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,753 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Pay more, save more

    10% annual overpayment allowance so you can save thousands, giving you the option to pay off your mortgage sooner.*



    That took me ten seconds.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 564 ✭✭✭Q&A


    Just to clarify Ulster Bank CAP their break fee at 6 months interest. So that's the most you will pay. Your actual break fee could be a lot less. Wait for the actual break fee letter too be sure.


    Confusingly they will send you two letters. All you're interested in is the one pager. The second letter will have pages and pages of mortgage options and estimated break fees. These are the capped break fees you would face if you refixed and look to break out of that future fixed rate.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,737 ✭✭✭✭Bobeagleburger




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,542 ✭✭✭JTMan



    The T&CS of the mortgage will stay the same, with the likely exception of the break fee. Ulster Bank have publically said that customers might be able to break for free if/when a forced migration to another lender occurs.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 564 ✭✭✭Q&A


    This is interesting. Can you point to where they said this?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,346 ✭✭✭✭SteelyDanJalapeno


    I'm on 2.95% with ptsb, I wonder is this worth the effort?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,737 ✭✭✭✭Bobeagleburger


    Depends on a few things.

    How much is your breakage fee?

    How much is left on mortgage?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,346 ✭✭✭✭SteelyDanJalapeno


    I'll ask for the breaking fee today, I don't need to commit to breaking if it doesn't work out right?

    29 years left, looks like I can save up to 60k full term



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,737 ✭✭✭✭Bobeagleburger


    The guys over on Askaboutmoney have some good info. See below for an example from a few years ago.


    -------------------------------------------------

    So I spoke with KBC today. Their Break formula is:

    B = (W - M) x T / 12 x A, where:


    B = The Break Funding Fee

    W = The Wholesale Rate Prevailing at the date of the existing fixed rate applying to the loan was set

    M = The Wholesale Rate prevailing at the switching/redemption date for the unexpired time period of the Fixed Rate Period

    T = Period of Time in months to the end of the Fixed Rate Period

    A = Principal amount which is subject to the existing fixed rate and which is being switched or redeemed €250,096


    So in my case this works out as:

    (-0.50%--0.21%) x 44/12 x €250,096 = €2,659.36 which is another jump of €307 since the 9th October.


    https://www.askaboutmoney.com/threads/kbc-break-funding-cost-calculation.220609/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,737 ✭✭✭✭Bobeagleburger


    You can get the interbank rates here

    https://www.fxempire.com/macro/ireland/interbank-rate



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,205 ✭✭✭cruizer101


    It can better to keep the longer term you have and just set up a standing order for the extra you want to overpay. You can overpay up to 10% of balance per year so likely over a grand per month and so unlikely to hit that limit. It then gives you flexibility if you ever need to reduce your payment amount down the line. Job loss, kid, fancy splashing a bit on a car or holiday etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,737 ✭✭✭✭Bobeagleburger


    If they can afford to, everyone should overpay the max allowed on a fixed rate. It can take years off a mortgage.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,476 ✭✭✭✭Ush1


    Got my letter, free to break!

    Okay lads, anybody found the cheapest solicitor to use?? :D



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,065 ✭✭✭✭Tusky



    Is it still worth overpaying if you likely won't be staying in the house for the entire mortgage? For example, a starter home that you plan on living in for 4/5/6/7 years.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,828 ✭✭✭masterboy123


    Did you telephone your bank requesting breakage fee?

    I am looking to break also and unsure how to proceed, i have 3 years left on a 5 year fixed mortgage.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,476 ✭✭✭✭Ush1


    Yep, phoned UB and got the letter two days later. My fixed is up in September.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,491 ✭✭✭bidiots


    Same as you, UB, fixed 2.6 until june 23.

    Got a breakage fee of 600, which will expire in a week, god knows what that figure will be next week!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,828 ✭✭✭masterboy123


    Do I have to have another mortgage ready in case the break fee is small?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 564 ✭✭✭Q&A


    Break free depends on interbank rates. If it's small or zero this week unless the rates fall over the course of the week your break free should be the same or a little less.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,542 ✭✭✭JTMan


    The Central Bank of Ireland have said: "Irish Independent understands from senior sources that the Central Bank believes levying fees and charges on customers is not appropriate because it is the bank which wants out of the relationship with borrowers." and "It is understood Central Bank regulators intend to monitor such charges and consumer protection".

    Ulster Bank have implied that they might allow it. "Ulster Bank CEO Jane Howard refused yesterday to say she will waive the fees for borrowers with fixed-rate mortgages who want to switch to a new lender."

    Ulster Bank will be forced to waiver break fees by the CBI. The consumer did not enter a fixed contract with PTSB nor AIB.

    https://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/regulator-wants-ulster-customers-to-be-spared-fees-in-scramble-to-switch-40112020.html



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 564 ✭✭✭Q&A


    "Monitoring" doesn't fill me with much confidence. Almost a year on and no moves by the central bank. The cashback offer by Avant probably makes it less likely they will act as it will soften the blow for many borrowers. Also say they did decide to restrict break fees what about those who have already jumped? I'm sure Ulster could argue that if the terms and conditions of the mortgage are honoured from their side they shouldn't be penalised any more than another institution. If Ulster really wanted to be cynical they would just stay charging the same rates as PTSB on any new fixes.

    The flip side of this is PTSB are going to pay a price based on current conditions is the central bank really going to pull the rug out from underneath them.

    Trying to change it now surely creates a headache for too many people.

    My fix is up in September but l'm happy to jump now. The cost of breaking pretty much matches the money I'd save from the lower rate. The cashback just seals the deal.



  • Registered Users Posts: 135 ✭✭stephenmario


    Just to everyone saying to max out your mortgage payments.


    You should generally only be doing this if you are also maxing out your pension contribution. Your gross amount goes into your pension instead of the net for your mortgage. A pension should be returning more or as much as the interest on a mortgage. A pension will be tax free to drawdown.

    For example...

    I overpay my mortgage by 1,000 a year for 10 years at 3% I'll save approx 5k in interest.

    If I use the same money but put it into my pension, I don't pay tax on it, that is approx 2k(for a top rate earner) I would earn double the amount of interest on the same money. Draw it down tax free when retiring and pay off the remaining mortgage.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,737 ✭✭✭✭Bobeagleburger


    Maxing pension payments (if possible) is a no brainer given the massive tax break. Easiest way to save money.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,737 ✭✭✭✭Bobeagleburger


    Unless you can put that money into something that is certain to earn a better return after tax, than yes.

    You'd still be paying off the mortgage earlier, so if you changed house halfway through, you'd have less money on your original mortgage.



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