Dacia Duster the new Lada?

Mad_maxx · 06-12-2018 1:26pm

road_high wrote: »

No they didn’t- various countries of the USSR did as they were called GACs and what not.
But it wasn’t built in the other bloc countries. Dacia in Romania did a Renault 12 cast off. FSO in Poland were Fiat cast offs, as was Zastava/Yugo of Yugoslavia.
Skoda were the best engineered of the lot as they had a very proud tradition going back decades. They had their own designs but were allowed limited updating under the regime.
Not sure about Trabant and Wartburg in east Germany but they weren’t lada related either.

Sorry, was rather clumsy in my post

Didn't mean all of the Eastern bloc nations built a lada, however, was it not policy for their to be no deviation?, effectively they all drove the same fiat 124 type boxy car regardless of the badge - name?

Stovepipe · 06-12-2018 1:29pm

A farmer friend bought a -15 Dacia Duster and loves it, after having the usual VWs, Renaults and Fords along the way. If they develop as well as Skoda and Hyundai did, they'll be great cars. Skoda has a very long heritage, going right back as far as WW 1, building heavy engineering like tanks, artillery, trucks and so on. Hyundai are as good as any Western car, considering their industry started from the rubble of WW 2.

Mad_maxx · 06-12-2018 1:30pm

Dacia1300 wrote: »

AFAIK Wartburg were based on DKW (who became Audi once again after they dropped 2-stroke engines in Western Germany), they acquired tooling after Germany became divided.

Agreed, Skoda were by far the best cars from that side of the Iron Curtain. There’s this very common misconception that they were only a worthless laugh-off before VW got involved, which is simply not the case. Rallying stats from back then will tell you all you need to know, but I’m sure you already know that...

The Czechs made great tractors too, zetor were superior to massey Ferguson and the British tractors in a number of ways back in the seventies and early eighties, my uncle cut silage for farmers when I was a child and had a fleet, he also had the polish Ursus, they fell behind after that but are still a big seller globally and have a strong presence in Ireland though small compared to forty years ago

Mad_maxx · 06-12-2018 1:34pm

Philb76 wrote: »

Took time for skoda and Hyundai to get where they are think dacia are heading the same way as for being compared to a lada the op must never have been in one remember the seats in them like sitting on a deck chair

I'd have thought Renault will keep dacia where it is, budget segment

Stovepipe · 06-12-2018 1:40pm

The Lada jeep was great fun but was never going to last as long as any Japanese or Western jeep. Ladas were notorious for their bad quality because all the best materials went to aerospace and high tech in Communist Russia. The steel was the lowest, cheapest recycled metal on the bodies of their cars.

ba_barabus · 06-12-2018 1:41pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

I'd have thought Renault will keep dacia where it is, budget segment

That's strictly the plan from what Renault have said.

turbodiesel · 06-12-2018 1:41pm

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

Wouldn't be convinced it only affected one batch and just one colour tbh. All go through the same anti rust treatment process it's just on a white car it will be easier to see any rust forming.

I know white would be the most popular colour with vans but didn't Merc sprinters and VW crafters have a similar problem.

Dacia1300 · 06-12-2018 2:01pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Sorry, was rather clumsy in my post

Didn't mean all of the Eastern bloc nations built a lada, however, was it not policy for their to be no deviation?, effectively they all drove the same fiat 124 type boxy car regardless of the badge - name?

No, that wasn’t the case. Moskvich was another USSR car that pre-dated Lada, so was the little ZAZ.

In some of the Eastern Bloc countries you could even import western cars, provided you were prepared to pay the import duty.

But there definitely was no policy dictating that every car produced had to be Fiat 124-based, or any other car for that matter

alias no.9 · 06-12-2018 4:09pm

Stovepipe wrote: »

The Lada jeep was great fun but was never going to last as long as any Japanese or Western jeep. Ladas were notorious for their bad quality because all the best materials went to aerospace and high tech in Communist Russia. The steel was the lowest, cheapest recycled metal on the bodies of their cars.

The cheapest steel was sent to Fiat as payment for their technology.

Back on topic, Renault's decision to take on and develop Dacia as a budget brand was in a way inspired by Lada.

Carlos Goshn [spelling?] or possibly his predecessor was an admirer of the model of basic no frills, old technology, sold cheaply.

ba_barabus · 06-12-2018 4:21pm

alias no.9 wrote: »

The cheapest steel was sent to Fiat as payment for their technology.

Back on topic, Renault's decision to take on and develop Dacia as a budget brand was in a way inspired by Lada.

Carlos Goshn [spelling?] or possibly his predecessor was an admirer of the model of basic no frills, old technology, sold cheaply.

Errrr Renault have been involved with Dacia since the 70s and now also have a very large stake in Lada. But they did need a low cost brand for emerging markets.

Dacia are also sold as Renault, Nissan and Samsung in some markets and hage been reworked to be made into modern Ladas.

Cordell · 06-12-2018 4:27pm

Renault have been involved with Dacia since the 70s

Not exactly, they where involved in the late 60s and 70s, but since then up to late 90s Dacia went by herself, selling basically the same car for 30 years - sort of, the quality went down constantly as they got to source everything locally. But that's history.

corks finest · 06-12-2018 10:23pm

If ye think the current Dacia is workmanlike ,etc, should have seen or driven the old ones in 93/4,basic for the terrain in RO was awful for normal vehicles,but the trusty Dacia sailed on

alias no.9 · 06-12-2018 10:47pm

ba_barabus wrote: »

Errrr Renault have been involved with Dacia since the 70s and now also have a very large stake in Lada. But they did need a low cost brand for emerging markets.

Dacia are also sold as Renault, Nissan and Samsung in some markets and hage been reworked to be made into modern Ladas.

Sure Dacia produced various models based on the Renault 12 since the 1970's, possibly other models before that but that was the extent of the relationship. Renault only took ownership of Dacia around the turn of the millennium and invested in new models and scaling up production. The CEO, not sure if it was Goshn or a predecessor, was on record way back at a Paris Motorshow pointing to Lada and saying Renault needed a division who could offer basic, no frills cars at a low cost because they had a cost structure that nothing in the Renault range could come close to.

Philb76 · 07-12-2018 3:00am

Skoda was vws budget brand when car's shared some parts such as the engines now the car's are almost identical and skoda aren't budget anymore as people on here have said the new duster has gone up in quality prices will have to increase so in a few years they could cost the same as a Renault

zilog_jones · 07-12-2018 1:21pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Sorry, was rather clumsy in my post

Didn't mean all of the Eastern bloc nations built a lada, however, was it not policy for their to be no deviation?, effectively they all drove the same fiat 124 type boxy car regardless of the badge - name?

Well for example, Polski Fiat (later FSO) were making cars based on the Fiat 125 and 126, Zastava (Yugo) were making 127 and 128 derivatives, Dacia were making old Renaults - there was nothing specific about the 124 really.

pcardin · 07-12-2018 5:13pm

Lada Niva is still one of the best true offroaders. The best when you on the budget.

joebloggs32 · 07-12-2018 7:29pm

Remember all the old Lada jokes .....

What do you call a Lada on top of a hill?

A Miracle

Dacia1300 · 07-12-2018 8:36pm

I remember Lada cars very well. I drove one daily for nearly a year. Not a nice car to drive at all. Clumsily thrown together. But amazingly rugged, straightforward & easy to work on. Not my favorite car but I can understand why they sold very well

Agricola · 07-12-2018 8:38pm

I'm sure they're a lot better than a Lada, but to me Duster's just scream; "I don't give a shít what I drive as long as it has this year's reg plate on it"
Each to their own though.

893bet · 07-12-2018 8:42pm

Just the old 350,000 lada's sold in Russia this year....i didnt know they were even still made

https://www.lada.ru/en/press-releases/115763.html

(bought my wife a new duster this year, Great reliable car, haters gonna hate)

road_high · 07-12-2018 10:49pm

Agricola wrote: »

I'm sure they're a lot better than a Lada, but to me Duster's just scream; "I don't give a shít what I drive as long as it has this year's reg plate on it"
Each to their own though.

No different to 75% of cars on Irish roads then!!

07-12-2018 11:02pm

After 2 Renault Meganes I changed to the Duster Prestige this year (2017 model ). I absolutely love it . Love the “no whistles and bells” love the “no badge” aspect, love the slightly retro look. I’m happy out with it !

road_high · 07-12-2018 11:10pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

After 2 Renault Meganes I changed to the Duster Prestige this year (2017 model ). I absolutely love it . Love the “no whistles and bells” love the “no badge” aspect, love the slightly retro look. I’m happy out with it !

Is the Prestige not a high spec one though?!

antodeco · 07-12-2018 11:18pm

road_high wrote: »

Is the Prestige not a high spec one though?!

Yeah but high spec on the Duster is still "standard" on a lot of cars!

07-12-2018 11:29pm

road_high wrote: »

Is the Prestige not a high spec one though?!

Yeah it’s the high spec one and worth the extra for the extras ! What I mean is it’s not an Audi !:cool:

Emmersonn · 08-12-2018 6:43pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah it’s the high spec one and worth the extra for the extras ! What I mean is it’s not an Audi !:cool:

That's no bad thing.

road_high · 08-12-2018 11:28pm

Emmersonn wrote: »

That's no bad thing.

Especially in reliability and major bills terns

downburst · 08-12-2018 11:38pm

Dacia1300 wrote: »

I have started to notice them a lot more & they seem to be almost always driven by people who can’t drive, 35 in a 50 zone, crawling along in both lanes because the driver can’t figure out what lane they should be in & so on.

Good advertising slogan - “Hate driving but have to? No problem, buy a Duster on PCP”. Although sometimes I can’t help but think that the driver is the one on PCP.

The irony, yes I know

Agree, it reminds me of the Renault 4 and I think it’s a great looking car along with loving the idea of the affordability and utilitarianism in the offering. But! since I’ve taken note of them I’ve also noted some crazy driving; speeding, no indicators and general odd driving. Still love the idea of them and I wish anyone well who goes for one.

road_high · 09-12-2018 12:23am

downburst wrote: »

Agree, it reminds me of the Renault 4 and I think it’s a great looking car along with loving the idea of the affordability and utilitarianism in the offering. But! since I’ve taken note of them I’ve also noted some crazy driving; speeding, no indicators and general odd driving. Still love the idea of them and I wish anyone well who goes for one.

So no different to your average Irish motorist then!

Dacia1300 · 09-12-2018 5:39am

downburst wrote: »

Agree, it reminds me of the Renault 4 and I think it’s a great looking car along with loving the idea of the affordability and utilitarianism in the offering. But! since I’ve taken note of them I’ve also noted some crazy driving; speeding, no indicators and general odd driving. Still love the idea of them and I wish anyone well who goes for one.

OT but yes, I loved the Renault 4. Part of my childhood & the most fun I ever had with 845cc. That is all...

NSAman · 09-12-2018 6:23am

Just a note here. Business partner bought one for Greece. One and a half years old. Serviced 6 weeks before. Was driving it one saturday and thought there was something wrong with the steering. Told him so when I got back to the house. Was leaving on Monday morning flight. Got driven to the airport. On the way back to house, the front wheel collapsed completely, leaving no steering, crashed and car is a complete write off..... luckily only a badly banged kneecap... could have been worse.

dr.fuzzenstein · 09-12-2018 9:15am

downburst wrote: »

Agree, it reminds me of the Renault 4 and I think it’s a great looking car along with loving the idea of the affordability and utilitarianism in the offering. But! since I’ve taken note of them I’ve also noted some crazy driving; speeding, no indicators and general odd driving. Still love the idea of them and I wish anyone well who goes for one.

If you like the Renault 4 you should try a Twingo. I just sold a 2002 Twingo and I miss it already.
Great, little, honest cars. For some reason there is a lot of badge snobbery against such cars on the motors section, from the same people who then complain about bowel-emptying repair bills, bad reliability and fraud from their favourite "premium" manufacturers.
But anything for the "right" badge and as long as you're sitting in your €60k gin palace. If you got the money to burn and that's your thing.

We have a 2010 Duster, a 1.6 petrol.
It's simple, reliable and comfy.
Bought 2 years ago with 90k km on it, now a smidgeon over 110k km on it, low km, hence petrol.
The engine is a Renault 1.6 16v unit, which is quiet and pulls well. Oil filter placement is a bit of a bastard, but after having an extra joint implanted in my forearm is no problem.
I find the seats very comfy, even for longer drives, it's spacious and has a good boot.
I even like the look of it.
My only two negative points would be the gear stick, it feels like a stalk of celery that is connected to the gearbox via a linkage made from liquorice and the gear ratio.
At 120 it revs at 3500 rpm, my Cmax is at 2500 RPM at 150. But then again it's a 2 liter diesel.
These points notwithstanding, it is a great runaround for the Allgäu region and, despite higher revs, will do the Frankfurt trip without any complaints.
I know it will start first time, every time, the handling is no Ferrari but competent, it might not have a nuclear powered, satellite guided, gold plated popcorn maker, but who needs that?

ba_barabus · 09-12-2018 1:58pm

+1 on that.

Sometimes you just want something that does what it's supposed to and doesn't cost the earth.

Farfromhome02 · 09-12-2018 5:50pm

Each to their own,certain cars suit certain people
Mate of mine has a 16 Logan and it's a horrible drab place to be in with cheap plastics everywere,does him though
It's an awful looking thing but he's happy with it

893bet · 10-12-2018 7:42am

road_high wrote: »

Is the Prestige not a high spec one though?!

Got the prestige also. It makes it a “standard car”! Parking sensors, reversing camera, cruise control, touch infotainment centre etc. It’s not heated seats high spec!

Good reliable car for the money.

Del2005 · 10-12-2018 7:50am

NSAman wrote: »

Just a note here. Business partner bought one for Greece. One and a half years old. Serviced 6 weeks before. Was driving it one saturday and thought there was something wrong with the steering. Told him so when I got back to the house. Was leaving on Monday morning flight. Got driven to the airport. On the way back to house, the front wheel collapsed completely, leaving no steering, crashed and car is a complete write off..... luckily only a badly banged kneecap... could have been worse.

If you'd looked at the wheels you might have noticed the nuts loose or the problem. Sounds like a bad service rather than a issue with a brand.

antodeco · 10-12-2018 3:44pm

Del2005 wrote: »

If you'd looked at the wheels you might have noticed the nuts loose or the problem. Sounds like a bad service rather than a issue with a brand.

It's like "my friend got very drunk in the airport. Got sick on his Aer Lingus flight. Be careful flying with Aer Lingus"

DaveyDave · 10-12-2018 6:21pm

I wonder are many people buying these for the reg plate? I know someone who got one new as their first ever new car. I can see the appeal of getting a new car but if you have a limited budget or just don't want to spend a fortune get a dealer model or something 1-2 years old. You save a fair few grand and have a nicer car.

I know not everyone cares about the make/model/spec but the people buying one just to have a new car are kidding themselves in my opinion. I'd rather have a nicer interior on a slightly used car that I'm in every day rather than a reg plate that's no use to me when driving.

Del2005 · 10-12-2018 6:40pm

DaveyDave wrote: »

I wonder are many people buying these for the reg plate? I know someone who got one new as their first ever new car. I can see the appeal of getting a new car but if you have a limited budget or just don't want to spend a fortune get a dealer model or something 1-2 years old. You save a fair few grand and have a nicer car.

I know not everyone cares about the make/model/spec but the people buying one just to have a new car are kidding themselves in my opinion. I'd rather have a nicer interior on a slightly used car that I'm in every day rather than a reg plate that's no use to me when driving.

The amount of bog standard versions of any model on our roads will tell you what Irish people think is important in a car and for the majority it's the rectangular piece of plastic attached to each end, they won't even splash out for metal plates.

Farfromhome02 · 10-12-2018 6:44pm

DaveyDave wrote: »

I wonder are many people buying these for the reg plate? I know someone who got one new as their first ever new car. I can see the appeal of getting a new car but if you have a limited budget or just don't want to spend a fortune get a dealer model or something 1-2 years old. You save a fair few grand and have a nicer car.

I know not everyone cares about the make/model/spec but the people buying one just to have a new car are kidding themselves in my opinion. I'd rather have a nicer interior on a slightly used car that I'm in every day rather than a reg plate that's no use to me when driving.

I personally think most Irish people haven't a clue about cars or what to do with their money

You would want to be mental to spend 15 000 on one these

Maybe I am the mad one keeping a old car and looking after it and getting shafted by ins/gov to keep it on the road

MojoMaker · 10-12-2018 7:46pm

24000 for a decently spec'd one.

kerten · 10-12-2018 9:39pm

I still dont get the point of buying those brand new. It is 10 years old chassis, suspension, steering and brake technology/design which equals to less safety in case of a crash. For 24k, one can buy 2 years old latest technology easily with every aspect is better except reliability(i give this to that model)

colm_mcm · 10-12-2018 11:21pm

kerten wrote: »

I still dont get the point of buying those brand new. It is 10 years old chassis, suspension, steering and brake technology/design which equals to less safety in case of a crash. For 24k, one can buy 2 years old latest technology easily with every aspect is better except reliability(i give this to that model)

They don’t exactly reinvent the wheel with every new model.

kerten · 11-12-2018 1:25am

colm_mcm wrote: »

They don’t exactly reinvent the wheel with every new model.

But I can't see where else it can really compete to its 2 years old alternatives other than price and reliability.

I am trying to point to the safety related pieces and not to the stuff like quality of materials, refinement, comfort, look ,etc.

I don't claim all current models are great either but in my opinion safety compromise coming with dacias should be an important aspect of buying decision.

Duster NCAP - https://youtu.be/JAksFxGvFDg

Here are three models in a slalom test which puts those underlying pieces at work

https://youtu.be/MgBkzCj4B1Q - Duster 2018

https://youtu.be/leDJSuHXJTY - Opel Grandland X

https://youtu.be/3tD7tXC5IQI - Nissan Quashqai

ba_barabus · 11-12-2018 2:03am

It's generally marked down due to a lack of buzzers, stickers and safety systems. The car is safe in a crash. It's all in the reports if you read them.

Notjing wrong with the crash test performance.

It always surprises me how cheap cars send people into a spin.

People probably like them as they're cheap to buy new, cheap to run, cheap to fix, cheap to service, hold their value well, come with a 5 year warranty, no complicated to use interfaces and even still with price rises on the way about €10k cheaper than the competition.

Not everyone wants a 2 year old car with limited warranty all for the price of a new Duster.

DaveyDave · 11-12-2018 2:26am

The only thing safety wise I see on the Duster is Emergency Brake Assist. It doesn't specify what this is and I can't find any information on it. It sounds like when you drop the anchor it applies more pressure for you?

A car in the €20k territory would ideally have some sort of radar or camera system for collision/pedestrian detection at least.

We're seeing radar systems trickling down into smaller cars like the Polo now. Oddly enough the Duster has a 4 way reversing camera even though it's the size of a Golf.

ba_barabus · 11-12-2018 8:56am

DaveyDave wrote: »

The only thing safety wise I see on the Duster is Emergency Brake Assist. It doesn't specify what this is and I can't find any information on it. It sounds like when you drop the anchor it applies more pressure for you?

A car in the €20k territory would ideally have some sort of radar or camera system for collision/pedestrian detection at least.

We're seeing radar systems trickling down into smaller cars like the Polo now. Oddly enough the Duster has a 4 way reversing camera even though it's the size of a Golf.

Seriously? You don't know what it has and complain about what it hasn't got?

Radar crash prevention systems don't actually make it any safer in a crash, you are aware of that aren't you?

It's a cut price family car using old tech to make it cheap and reliable.

antodeco · 11-12-2018 10:32am

Cars with more tech: More expensive, more potential fixes/software updates, more things to do wrong!

11-12-2018 11:41am

DaveyDave wrote: »

We're seeing radar systems trickling down into smaller cars like the Polo now.

Might as well as the current Polo has a recall for self ejecting rear seatbelt. Fix for which is apparently a rubber band.

Sometimes basic solid engineering is needed instead of more electronics. I quite like the Duster now that they have fixed the rusting issues of the early ones. They are a nice solid and functional car that you don't mind putting a wet dog into.

kerten · 11-12-2018 12:19pm

ba_barabus wrote: »

It's generally marked down due to a lack of buzzers, stickers and safety systems. The car is safe in a crash. It's all in the reports if you read them.

Notjing wrong with the crash test performance.

It always surprises me how cheap cars send people into a spin.

People probably like them as they're cheap to buy new, cheap to run, cheap to fix, cheap to service, hold their value well, come with a 5 year warranty, no complicated to use interfaces and even still with price rises on the way about €10k cheaper than the competition.

Not everyone wants a 2 year old car with limited warranty all for the price of a new Duster.

Lack of buzzers and assistance systems generally leads to 4 star rating in euro ncap if car is good structurally adult/child safety wise.

Link below is list of duster and its alternatives tested in 2017/2018. It is at the bottom on each category.

Duster vs Other models in a sortable list in each area (Adult safety, child safety, pedesterian safety and safety systems)

NCAP is just one aspect.

What about the slalom tests I shared in previous post. Did it give you any confidence that it is no different than current models when you try to avoid a pedestrian/car/deer in a backroad ? In those test I wouldn't focus on entry speeds only also look at how body is controlled during weight transfer and ESP intrusion needed.

My problem with dacia's is in general they sacrifice safety aspect(which is hard to measure until you need it) in each model and make sure on visible aspects(design, plastics, etc) are improving in each model. It is a successful business model for sure by putting uninformed customers at risk.

I have no problem if one makes buying decision with safety aspect in radar, then it is person's prioritization of those aspects within their budget. But this is not my perception from threads about dacia in general.

Dacia Duster the new Lada?

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