WDYTYA Ireland

jos28 · 09-09-2018 3:34pm #1

Ya'll looking forward to the new series on RTE tonight ?

pinkypinky · 09-09-2018 4:01pm

Yep. Can't watch live but will record.

Cyrus T Buford · 09-09-2018 4:47pm

Yes!! Will be interesting!

Who is first up?

spurious · 09-09-2018 5:04pm

Damien Dempsey.

pinkypinky · 09-09-2018 10:33pm

Well, they packed in a lot to one episode.

jos28 · 09-09-2018 11:24pm

It jumped around a lot, still didn't find the origin of the name Dempsey. I would have liked to see them trace the Canadian line. Some very interesting people in his lineage. Plenty of inspiration for song writing for Damien

Waitsian · 10-09-2018 1:03am

jos28 wrote: »

It jumped around a lot, still didn't find the origin of the name Dempsey. I would have liked to see them trace the Canadian line. Some very interesting people in his lineage. Plenty of inspiration for song writing for Damien

As an Irish-Canadian dual national I would say the same. Pity they didn't. Where in Canada was he from? And where did he originate before that? Missed opportunity that I think.

pinkypinky · 10-09-2018 10:07am

They probably couldn't trace him.

Hermy · 10-09-2018 10:37am

Interesting episode.

I was hoping they'd deal with the Bridgeman side of his family as I have so far been unable to connect his branch to the main tree which I descend from. Those 1841 Freedom of Dublin entries certainly seem to suggest that they are all of the one family but as ever [and perhaps understandably] the programme was short on the sort of detail that we genealogy nuts crave.

Where can I go or who could I talk to to find out more?

pinkypinky · 10-09-2018 2:08pm

Timeline did all the research. They might not be willing to share it though.

Hermy · 10-09-2018 2:44pm

But what about the 1841 Freemen of Dublin?
Where can I view that or make further enquiries re same?

Just rang Dublin City Archives and hope to hear back from the archivist in due course.

Waitsian · 10-09-2018 7:01pm

pinkypinky wrote: »

They probably couldn't trace him.

Yeah, that's a definite possibility. I enjoyed the episode overall, I'm a huge supporter of Damien, I've a lot of time for him.

Hermy · 12-09-2018 5:05pm

I got a reply from Timeline. As Pinky suggested they were limited in what they could say but the reply was helpful nonetheless.

VirginiaB · 17-09-2018 8:10pm

Check out John Grenham's blog today. He has worked on Dempsey's ancestry for three years but it was not mentioned on the show tho they used his research. Dempsey had to pretend to be surprised. Interesting.

pedroeibar1 · 18-09-2018 12:42am

That series reminds me of a local supermarket’s ‘special offer’ on wine. You try a bottle (watch an episode), like it and buy a case (watch the series). But, and it’s always a big ‘but’, the others rarely live up to expectation, are rubbish and leave a sour taste.

I missed the Dempsey episode, saw Short last night. Very disappointing and made worse by an assumption that the audience are total idiots. The granduncle was described several times as a ‘James Bond’ character in London during WW2. We are informed that he trained in the Irish Army’s Signal Corps, where he was a ‘radio engineer’. No proof supplied. He was not an officer: most of the enlisted men in Signals were trained as linesmen or as radio operators (radio technique/Morse code); very, very few were radio engineers, almost all of those were officers because the qualification was one that required several years of study, with either City & Guilds exams or / and part-time attendance at Kevin St. Tech. (as it was called in those days). Soldiers enlisted, they were trained, they left and they invariably became ships radio officers having served their time or bought their way out. No proof for sexing it up, Shortt’s granduncle worked in a factory making electronics, no more. The ‘Bond / secrecy’ banter was mere nonsense, everyone was told not to talk, “Walls have ears!” and he was as close to being James Bond as a girl on a munitions factory line in Birmingham.

It also is disappointing that despite the frequent mentions of the Limerick connection and the opening shot of the village sign of ‘Castleconnell’ the area got no further mention. For example, a John Shortt (of Nevis and the Windward Islands) was a Cromwellian-era adventurer who with his daughter had property in Castleconnell after the Commonwealth. Some research on that – even to rule them out - would have contributed to making an interesting programme, but possibly it would not have enough ‘oohh, aah’ for a gullible audience.

It was nice to see Des Marnane getting an airing, his books/articles on Tipperary are invaluable for those with a connection there.

Best, as Grenham says, to enjoy the series like Bismarck’s sausages. Quite suitable to occupy couch potatoes, but ……………..

Hermy · 18-09-2018 8:32am

Well said Pedro!!

srmf5 · 18-09-2018 8:03pm

VirginiaB wrote: »

Check out John Grenham's blog today. He has worked on Dempsey's ancestry for three years but it was not mentioned on the show tho they used his research. Dempsey had to pretend to be surprised. Interesting.

They didn't actually use John's research. Who Do You Think You Are? just ended up finding out the same information as John. They didn't steal John's work. The people working on the show weren't to know that Damien had already gotten John to do this research. How were they to know if Damien didn't inform them? I'm not putting any blame on the research team anyway. It was only Damien who was being a bit dishonest about it but I can understand why he did it since it allows for an interesting story to be aired about his family.

VirginiaB · 19-09-2018 1:56pm

That explanation was added after the original post.

srmf5 · 19-09-2018 2:14pm

VirginiaB wrote: »

That explanation was added after the original post.

I assume that the explanation that you're referring to is his reply to your post on the blog. However, he hasn't changed his original blog post (at least not since I read it before seeing the Boards post and I'm sure he would have added it as an edit at the end). He made it clear in the article that they didn't steal his work without the need for an explanation from the following:

So I emailed the friend responsible for organising the show’s research and asked her “Wtf?” She had never heard of my research. So nobody stole my work. She had had to duplicate it because she didn’t know it existed. I then emailed the bould Damien and asked him “Wtf?” And he responded that he hadn’t told the production company about my research. Wtf? He didn’t say why, but I presume part of the deal was that he had to be discovering things onscreen at the same time as the viewer and so had to be able to feign ignorance.

VirginiaB · 19-09-2018 2:53pm

I read the blog post on 17 Sept and posted here. I believe it was clarified afterwards and, with due respect, that is what you read.

Jellybaby1 · 19-09-2018 3:57pm

I didn't enjoy either first or second programme. Regarding Damien Dempsy's one, I never felt he showed much interest in what he was being told. Little did I know that he already knew it. Pat Shortt's programme was a disappointment, I had too many questions at the end of it. In the trailer Bertie Aherne said he hoped they don't find any Royals. I wait with bated breath! On a more positive note, I loved John Grenham's blog post about Damien!

Hermy · 23-09-2018 11:17pm

Some interesting stories in tonight's episode.
Just a shame they forgot about the genealogy.

Defaulter1831 · 25-09-2018 10:28pm

jos28 wrote: »

It jumped around a lot, still didn't find the origin of the name Dempsey. I would have liked to see them trace the Canadian line. Some very interesting people in his lineage. Plenty of inspiration for song writing for Damien

Dempsey is a real Laois name. The clan were centrally involved in the Massacre of Mullaghmast in 1577.

http://www.turtlebunbury.com/history/history_irish/history_irish_mullaghmast.htm Bottom of article.

This wouldn't go down well with Damien Dempsey!:D

Surprised no one mentioned Laois as it's the Dempsey homeland. Even a GAA club called O'Dempseys in Laois in an area around Killenard, Portarlington which is called O'Dempsey country. Surely historians and researchers knew one of the most obvious areas where Damien's ancestors came from. Probably Mullaghmast didn't fit the narrative. And their often seems to be a narrative in picking a certain side that bear qualities of the celebrity on WDYTYA.

Defaulter1831 · 25-09-2018 10:32pm

Samantha Power and the Borans was interesting for me as i'm a local. Nicksy was a great union man for the local miners.

Funny the way traits reappear through the generations.

pinkypinky · 25-09-2018 10:41pm

I've watched both Pat Shortt and Samantha Power's episodes tonight (having been away, hence the quietness of my posting!)

Enjoyed PS's father saying "I knew that" several times at the end. I can totally relate to that experience with my own family. Think Pedro might be a little harsh - they always edit out the donkey work and it's quite possible they obtained MoD records.

SP's story was overall more interesting.

pinkypinky · 25-09-2018 10:43pm

The revelation that Dempsey had already done lots of (paid) research and didn't tell the producers is mad! Very disingenuous of him. Hard to believe they wouldn't check what had already been done. It's my first question when I begin research for anyone.

srmf5 · 25-09-2018 10:51pm

pinkypinky wrote: »

The revelation that Dempsey had already done lots of (paid) research and didn't tell the producers is mad! Very disingenuous of him. Hard to believe they wouldn't check what had already been done. It's my first question when I begin research for anyone.

It's possible that they did check with him but he played ignorant. The start of the episode is always meant to be them getting any information available from relatives. Pat Shortt's father brought out a proper book that he made on the family so in his case, he was definitely trying his best to show that the family already had done some research and were hoping to find out more.

pinkypinky · 25-09-2018 10:54pm

I remember years ago that Nigella Lawson's family had lots of research already done, which they showed at the start. There was plenty of flack at the time but I still thought they made an interesting show from, and she was personally very likable.

pedroeibar1 · 26-09-2018 10:38pm

pinkypinky wrote: »

Enjoyed PS's father saying "I knew that" several times at the end. I can totally relate to that experience with my own family. Think Pedro might be a little harsh - they always edit out the donkey work and it's quite possible they obtained MoD records..

I might be ‘a little harsh’ Pinky but as you know I don’t ‘do’ BS and the Pat Short programme was heavily loaded with it. Whatever about ‘editing out donkeywork’, calling a soldier a ‘Radio Engineer’ and sexing up his work as ‘Q’ in James Bond without any proof other than a photograph of a factory is on a similar level to describing a clerk in charge of the petty cash as the ‘corporate finance director’.

The facts are clear. Shortt’s uncle Brendan was not a commissioned officer. He might have had a radio technician qualification but he was not a ‘radio engineer’. Actually, pre-WW2 very few Irish Army officers held a degree (generally those that did were either musicians, doctors or engineers and entered the army already qualified) and it would have been unheard of for a soldier to be a graduate. In the Signal Corps (where Shortt served) it was a rarity for an officer to be technically qualified beyond a Brit. I.R.E (British Institute of Radio Engineers) cert or diploma, or more generally a radio technician’s qualification from Kevin St. Any degree-level person in the army of the 1930’s would have been assured of a permanent pensionable job and rapid promotion due to the ‘Emergency’.

I’d guess that Shortt’s uncle took the boat like many others and was put working in a factory that made radar, then a highly secret device. I’d bet he was on the assembly line, a bloke with a screwdriver. He most likely worked for a company like GEC or Cossor who were contractors - both had 'shadow factories'. He would not have worked for the MoD. I agree it was important defence work and secret but the use of the ‘James Bond’ terminology is utter nonsense and the makers do genealogical research a disservice. Harsh perhaps, but true.
What would be nice would be a lucid programme on genealogy, but that is not what the series is about.

Defaulter1831 · 30-09-2018 10:07pm

Watching Bertie episode. Halfway through and best so far I feel.

pinkypinky · 30-09-2018 10:31pm

Really? They barely went past his grandparents and only dipped a toe into the 19th century, let alone any earlier. Bertie's family's divided republican past might be interesting but it's far from a thorough genealogical investigation.

Defaulter1831 · 30-09-2018 10:34pm

pinkypinky wrote: »

Really? They barely went past his grandparents and only dipped a toe into the 19th century, let alone any earlier. Bertie's family's divided republican past might be interesting but it's far from a thorough genealogical investigation.

I know when I made my comment it was half way through the show. Found the father on hunger strike etc interesting. The agricultural background.

I expected the second half of the show to get to the early 1800s and some revelations bar 1919-23 and the Work House master. It tapered off badly.

pinkypinky · 30-09-2018 10:37pm

I thought the suicide was handled quite well, and I was affected by the sad letter from the aged father trying to get his son's pension. Unfortunately, there's many stories of people having to beg for their pensions, either on their own behalf or on that of someone who had "died for Ireland".

Hermy · 30-09-2018 10:44pm

pinkypinky wrote: »

I thought the suicide was handled quite well...

I think it's pathetic that he's still unapologetic about that remark he made about what economists should do with themselves.
It's like he saw the show as an opportunity to throw another few digs.

srmf5 · 30-09-2018 10:58pm

Hermy wrote: »

I think it's pathetic that he's still unapologetic about that remark he made about what economists should do with themselves.
It's like he saw the show as an opportunity to throw another few digs.

Well, he did actually apologise for his poor choice of words at the time. He was just pointing out in the show that people were quick to say that he had no understanding of suicide after the incident when he actually did.

Hermy · 30-09-2018 11:11pm

If he had any real understanding of suicide and the agony it causes for those left behind he would never have made that remark. But he knew what he was doing. He knew that by making the remark he'd become the story and the warnings from the economists would be pushed off the front page.

But back on topic - I thought the show was rubbish. Their apparent unwillingness to delve into the past, to go beyond the subjects grandparents, or even step into the 1800's is really taking from the whole point of the show.

srmf5 · 01-10-2018 12:03am

Hermy wrote: »

If he had any real understanding of suicide and the agony it causes for those left behind he would never have made that remark. But he knew what he was doing. He knew that by making the remark he'd become the story and the warnings from the economists would be pushed off the front page.

But back on topic - I thought the show was rubbish. Their apparent unwillingness to delve into the past, to go beyond the subjects grandparents, or even step into the 1800's is really taking from the whole point of the show.

I doubt that he purposefully tried to make himself the subject of national scorn. Of course, a public figure should always be careful with their words and he shouldn't have said what he did but everyday people make remarks like that who aren't under public scrutiny. My mum has said such a person would send her to the river a few times when this is how her own uncle died whom she loved dearly. I'm just coming from the perspective that we shouldn't be so quick to judge when we don't actually know what's happened in anyone's life. He didn't experience it personally but I'm sure that he saw how it affected his father. Everyone is different so what may seem like a harmless comment to Bertie or my mum could be a trigger for others so sensitivity is needed with these issues. I remember my teacher joking with some hyperactive student (class clown type) that he thought a student was having a fit but a student got really upset because her father had epilepsy. We have so many phrases like 'are you blind' that are harmless to most but can upset some people who are personally affected.

I did find the show interesting. It was interesting more from a historical perspective than genealogical though. It is a shame that they didn't go back any further than they did but they must not have been able to find anything that was interesting enough to broadcast. I enjoy these shows for what they are though and I don't really expect to learn any new genealogical techniques or anything like that from it. It is a show intended for entertainment and I do find the stories that are told interesting. I always like any of the US or UK WDYTYA episodes that have an Irish focus so I've been enjoying all of the episodes so far. I'm just glad to finally have an Irish series of the show back. These types of shows are often what trigger genealogical interest in people and it probably did have a part to play for me. It offers some Irish history as well providing context for events.

I do find it interesting to look at how the Civil War influenced party politics. My dad's family were Fianna Fáil so from that it's possible that they were anti-treaty while my mum's family were Fine Gael so likely pro-treaty. Then there's Sinn Féin people who tended to support the IRA (generalising from where I'm from, not saying everyone who supported or supports Sinn Féin supports/supported the IRA). My dad's father was staunchly Fianna Fáil and refused to vote for any other party. When the recession hit and people turned on Bertie and the party, my grandfather still voted for them while my parents secretly voted for Fine Gael since my grandfather would have been angry if he knew. I find it interesting that he had such a loyalty despite the downturn but he could be very stubborn.

I'm guessing that this was the episode where John Grenham was presenting the genealogical research that he hadn't actually researched. Surprise surprise, they didn't find a connection to British royalty despite what some thought would happen!

Hermy · 01-10-2018 12:28am

I doubt Ahern has ever been anything less than careful with his words.

The civil war is indeed interesting but this programme is supposed to be about genealogy.

Given the programme barely looked beyond Bertie's grandparents is it any wonder they didn't find any royal connections.

Hermy · 01-10-2018 12:29am

As an aside I only see three of Bertie's siblings in the birth indexes. He and his brother appear to be absent.

Ipso · 01-10-2018 2:46am

Defaulter1831 wrote: »

Watching Bertie episode. Halfway through and best so far I feel.

Hopefully they’ve looked up all the trees in North Dublin.

pinkypinky · 01-10-2018 9:41am

Hermy wrote: »

As an aside I only see three of Bertie's siblings in the birth indexes. He and his brother appear to be absent.

Challenge extended!*
I don't know the names of his siblings other than Maurice, but also don't see Bertie (Bartholomew) in the indexes. 3 Ahern kids born to Hourihane mother in Dublin: Kathleen, Ellen & Noel.

The parents married in 1937. Bertie must be the youngest. Interesting that they didn't follow the traditional naming pattern. Maurice & Bartholomew are their fathers' names.

*Why yes, I am a nerd*

Hermy · 01-10-2018 12:00pm

pinkypinky wrote: »

...but also don't see Bertie (Bartholomew) in the indexes...

Yes, I was including Bertie in the absentees. Maybe they were just late registrations. Maureen Potter and her siblings were the same.

*Why yes, I am a nerd*

No, you're not! You're just naturally inquisitive - a vital trait in genealogy.
I really don't like the term nerd and the way it's liberally applied to anyone who likes to engage their brain a bit more than the average Joe.

Defaulter1831 · 01-10-2018 12:01pm

Ipso wrote: »

Hopefully they’ve looked up all the trees in North Dublin.

I actually don't know what you mean in that comment

Mine was made around 10pm, halfway through the show.

Yes i found the first half interesting, the whole agricultural Cork background. The background of his mam who died, ironically, the week he was signing the Good Friday Agreement with British PM Tony Blair centrally involved.

But as said previously the show just got stuck in 1919-23 thereafter. Nothing pre famine. A boring enough story about the head of Dunmanway Workhouse and that was it.

Hermy · 01-10-2018 12:14pm

Defaulter1831 wrote: »

I actually don't know what you mean in that comment Which was made around 10pm, halfway through the show.

It relates to this quote...

"I've been just about up every tree in North County Dublin chasing all kinds of things." - Bertie Ahern on his inquiries into allegations about Ray Burke.

Jellybaby1 · 01-10-2018 3:27pm

If you Google Bertie, (:eek:) you'll find he was born 12 Sept 1951 and his siblings are Maurice, Kathleen, Noel and Eileen. His parents waited a long time for Bertie to appear!

pinkypinky · 08-10-2018 12:54pm

Harsh but fair review of last night's lacklustre episode:
https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/tv-radio-web/laura-whitmore-s-family-history-is-fascinating-to-laura-whitmore-1.3654460

I did think they missed an opportunity to go down the genetic genealogy route at the end to establish the great-grandfather. And they also ignored the fact that her grandmother appeared to be illegitimate as well (the Whitmore-Dunne marriage cert had her father's name blank, and we already knew the groom was illegitimate, even if he knew his father's name).

Jellybaby1 · 08-10-2018 3:46pm

I would have checked the surrounding areas for Whitmores, but I assume they checked everything to the nth degree and found none.

WDYTYA Ireland

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