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When did Ireland first receive the British stations?

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    #32
    Markdub2000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 114 ✭✭Markdub2000


    Removed


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    #33
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,018 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    Antenna wrote: »
    he recalls his first memory of TV of seeing BBC TV (before RTE TV existed) in a window (I presume a radio/electrical shop) in Ballina, Co. Mayo )

    I know the owner* of the shop in question.
    It was UTV from Strabane on Ch 8

    BBC from "Enniskillen" Ch 4 was theoretically possible but required a "monster" aerial ( 4 or more Band 1 elements) 11 or 13 Band 3 elements brought in Strabane in elevated parts of town.

    * He swears the accounts of how snowy the reception was are exxaguraed :-)


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    #34
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    Was any TV receivable in Cork until cable and deflectors?

    I assume Limerick and Galway were in the same situation too.


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    #35
    Richard
    Registered Users Posts: 2,439 ✭✭✭Richard


    SpaceTime wrote: »
    Was any TV receivable in Cork until cable and deflectors?

    I assume Limerick and Galway were in the same situation too.

    Presumably Cork had to receive something to "deflect" it so it must have been possible with the right equipment.


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    #36
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    The later Cork deflectors (1980s) received welsh signals at a mountain site in Waterford and used a UHF network to rebroadcast them.

    It was more of an unlicensed transmission network than a simple repeater.

    Some areas also carried Eurosport and Sky One on UHF over the air. I'm not sure how that went unnoticed for so long.

    They also used to insert scrolling community messages when they were under threat of closedown.

    Seems that widespread public support just meant they couldn't be touched.

    In the later years they were only providing UK terrestrial TV though.

    Also they weren't really receivable in Cork City itself and generally targeted non-cable areas in the suburban commuter towns that are still not cabled.

    Carrigaline for example has no active UPC cable despite being a pretty large population centre a short drive from Cork City.

    Ballincollig seems to be partly cabled and I'm not sure about Midleton, Blarney, Glanmire etc


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    #37
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    SpaceTime wrote: »
    Was any TV receivable in Cork until cable and deflectors?

    I assume Limerick and Galway were in the same situation too.

    Limerick used massive array of aerials on Keeper Hill. Similar schemes elsewhere.


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    #38
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    SpaceTime wrote: »

    It was more of an unlicensed transmission network than a simple repeater.

    Really all were "unlicensed transmission network"

    Passive deflectors (an aerial array feeding an aerial array) were almost non-existent, "a simple repeater" is an illegal unlicensed transmission. Some used an amplifier and then opposite polarity of aerial some distance way, These have poor performance and are illegal transmitters with disadvantage they create serious interference (too broad). Many used full CATV/MATV head ends, i.e. a real receiver for each channel, modulators and combiners and power amplifier. Much better performance and less interference.

    Even a passive deflector could be illegal!

    "Deflector" was a euphemism.


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    #39
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,410 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    RTE Relays ran the cable system in Dublin. I would imagine the legality of that was a bit doubtful as they probably did not pay retransmission rights charges.

    What they did down the country with 'deflectors' was much the same, only they included rebroadcasting into the mix.


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    #40
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    watty wrote: »
    Really all were "unlicensed transmission network"

    Passive deflectors (an aerial array feeding an aerial array) were almost non-existent, "a simple repeater" is an illegal unlicensed transmission. Some used an amplifier and then opposite polarity of aerial some distance way, These have poor performance and are illegal transmitters with disadvantage they create serious interference (too broad). Many used full CATV/MATV head ends, i.e. a real receiver for each channel, modulators and combiners and power amplifier. Much better performance and less interference.

    Even a passive deflector could be illegal!

    "Deflector" was a euphemism.

    Broadcasting satellite channels on UHF was a BIT cheeky though!

    In the later years, I think the Welsh channels were actually coming from a sat dish too as normal Channel 4 arrived and perfect reception...

    At this stage its only a vague memory but I definitely remember their being Sky One and for a time Sky News and Eurosport on UHF.

    It's a shame though that UPCs predecessors in Cork seemed to give up on cable in the mid 90s and started whacking MMDS antennae into areas that ought to have been cabled up.

    I don't think UPC has really made any in serious attempt to expand their cabling down here either, just upgraded the original Cork Multichannel CATV footprint.

    The CATV done in the original rollout is very high spec. Largely properly laid in underground ducts and using US style CATV cabinets. It carried way more analogue channels than other Irish systems back in the day. I think 23+ at peak using those Jerrold STBs.
    It was very much like a 1980s American setup.

    The stuff Chorus did was largely a hack job and they made the rather shortsighted decision to just provide the digital MMDS lineup using DVB-C on the Cork network which resulted in a lot is customers disconnecting and moving to Sky.

    I rented 1990s era apartments which has been prewired for cable and UPC had underground taps etc but someone has used very poor internal wiring that couldn't even carry digital cable never mind broadband yet the signal 4 metres away at the tap was perfect. All they needed to do was pull a new cable through the existing duct.

    UPC just abandoned it and refused to repair it or connect me. I find they're a really odd company at times.

    It's very much improved since it became UPC but they really should cable up all the areas that Chorus skipped and abandoned on MMDS. They seem to have no interest in spending money on expanding the footprint though.

    The current UPC network is pretty solid and provides digital only. There's no analogue service at all (well it may carry RTE.. Although I'm not sure if that ceased when DTT launched).


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    #41
    I swindled the NSA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 150 ✭✭I swindled the NSA


    Some of the early 1930's Baird transmissions were carried on mediumwave radio transmitters (after regular radio programmes had closed down for the night)

    In theory these should have been receivable throughout Ireland although whether anyone tried building the equipment to watch them is anyone's guess !
    SpaceTime wrote: »
    Broadcasting satellite channels on UHF was a BIT cheeky though!
    Why would relaying a commercial FTA channel be considered "cheeky" ? Surely it was a case of the more viewers the merrier ?


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    #42
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    I swindled the NSA wrote: »
    Some of the early 1930's Baird transmissions were carried on mediumwave radio transmitters (after regular radio programmes had closed down for the night)

    In theory these should have been receivable throughout Ireland although whether anyone tried building the equipment to watch them is anyone's guess !


    Why would relaying a commercial FTA channel be considered "cheeky" ? Surely it was a case of the more viewers the merrier ?

    Maybe because Sky One wasn't FTA.


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    #43
    jca
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,585 ✭✭✭jca


    Turquoise1 wrote: »
    Does anyone know what year Ireland was able to get the British channels such as BBC, UTV etc on cable?

    I remember watching the 1976 Olympics on the "piped tv" as it was called. It was so exciting having different channels it was heaven compared to Rte. We had HTV and BBC 1 Wales no channel 4 we had s4c instead which was dire. Sky was light years away at that time. When Sky turned up it was always on number 7 on everyone's tv. Simpler times indeed.


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    #44
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    How many channels were on the analog cable systems ?

    I remember visiting Cork (from Dublin) as a kid and bring memorised by about 26 channels and the, what then seemed high tech, descrambler that Cork Communications / Multichannel used.

    Cablelink was fairly basic in comparison and the decoder was only used for sky movies and sky sports which we definitely didn't have in our household.

    I don't remember not having satellite channels though. I guess I'm not old enough. I was brought up on a diet of TCC, Ternage Mutant Hero Turtles and DJ Kat! - it probably explains a lot! MTV used to actually be cool back then too before it discovered reality TV! I just remember watching very cool MTV Select VJs like Donna Air, Eden Harel, Cat Deeley... Also Zane Lowe etc etc ...and M2 ... So indie and cool that it was almost painful! Then it all fell apart and turned into reality TV nonsense! :(

    I often think that access to television influenced social development here. Compare attitudes in the 1980s in rural areas pre-satellite that didn't have overspill signals and urban areas that had large cable uptake... It has to have had a profound impact.


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    #45
    I swindled the NSA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 150 ✭✭I swindled the NSA


    SpaceTime wrote: »
    Maybe because Sky One wasn't FTA.

    It was for a while (late 1980's/early 1990's). The "cheekiness" of having Sky one would depend on when it was relayed,


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    #46
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    I swindled the NSA wrote: »
    It was for a while (late 1980's/early 1990's). The "cheekiness" of having Sky one would depend on when it was relayed,

    It was well after encryption began - mid to late 1990s
    It was encrypted when "sky multichannels" began ?


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    #47
    TAFKAlawhec
    Registered Users Posts: 590 ✭✭✭TAFKAlawhec


    SpaceTime wrote: »
    It was well after encryption began - mid to late 1990s
    It was encrypted when "sky multichannels" began ?
    1992 IIRC.


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    #48
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    TAFKAlawhec wrote: »
    1992 IIRC.
    Sky One encrypted on 1st September 1993 with the launch of the Multichannels package and the Sky corporate rebrand.

    MTV didn't encrypt until around 1995 though, for some strange reason QVC was encrypted from launch in 1993 and MTV was FTA but this was swapped a couple of years later.
    SpaceTime wrote: »
    How many channels were on the analog cable systems ?

    I remember visiting Cork (from Dublin) as a kid and bring memorised by about 26 channels and the, what then seemed high tech, descrambler that Cork Communications / Multichannel used.

    Cablelink was fairly basic in comparison and the decoder was only used for sky movies and sky sports which we definitely didn't have in our household.
    .
    Cablelink Dublin peaked at about 22 or 23 channels I think. It was at 18 channels in mid-1996, 19 if you include the encrypted CNN feed that wasn't available to home viewers.


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    #49
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    Weird that CNN was encrypted at one stage. In these days of Internet news I can't imagine anyone actually willing to pay to watch it !


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    #50
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    SpaceTime wrote: »
    Weird that CNN was encrypted at one stage. In these days of Internet news I can't imagine anyone actually willing to pay to watch it !
    Yeah, it was at the upper end of VHF Band I and was not available to the general public. I think it was intended for hotels. Obviously FTA on Astra 1B as it always was.


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    #51
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,845 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    jca wrote: »
    I remember watching the 1976 Olympics on the "piped tv" as it was called. It was so exciting having different channels it was heaven compared to Rte. We had HTV and BBC 1 Wales no channel 4 we had s4c instead which was dire. Sky was light years away at that time. When Sky turned up it was always on number 7 on everyone's tv. Simpler times indeed.

    7 was the VCR modulator (my mother couldn't understand switching to SCART) for us, from the 6 channel aerial days... would say that was common enough too.


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    #52
    grouchyman
    Registered Users Posts: 199 ✭✭grouchyman


    There was an aerial and tv in my grandparents house in Dublin during the late 50s which could receive the BBC Station


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    #53
    jca
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,585 ✭✭✭jca


    L1011 wrote: »
    7 was the VCR modulator (my mother couldn't understand switching to SCART) for us, from the 6 channel aerial days... would say that was common enough too.

    When the fancy ' all pins connected" scart cables arrived it did away with switching to channel zero for the video channel. We thought the scart picture quality was the bees knees.


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    #54
    TAFKAlawhec
    Registered Users Posts: 590 ✭✭✭TAFKAlawhec


    Karsini wrote: »
    Sky One encrypted on 1st September 1993 with the launch of the Multichannels package and the Sky corporate rebrand.
    I think you could be right, that I'm a year out. I think there were some channels like UK Gold that launched soft-encrypted first before becoming a sub-channel.
    Karsini wrote: »
    MTV didn't encrypt until around 1995 though, for some strange reason QVC was encrypted from launch in 1993 and MTV was FTA but this was swapped a couple of years later.
    Seems strange but there was reasons. Although MTV was promoted as part of Sky's Multi-Channels package, the signal on 19.2 east they had was one to serve a pan-European audience - I think the only other satellite they used for DTH purposes at the time was at 1 west in D2MAC for Nordic countries. When they encrypted eventually into Videocrypt 1 & 2, they had notices a few months beforehand on their teletext service pointing out how to subscribe in each country. Unlike these days on DVB-S where you could easily encrypt with a multiple amount of conditional access systems, using Videocrypt in a country like Germany where it was not normally used (as opposed to Syster/Nagravision used by Premiere) caused headaches, and perhaps accelerated MTV Europe starting to fragment into regional versions, with the MTV Germany version being FTA until very recently.

    It may seem incredible now that a shopping channel was part of a subscription bundle on satellite, but QVC was the first 24 hour dedicated station of its kind then. The only others being the likes of Sell-A-Vision who ran infomercials in the wee hours on Eurosport and VOX. And originally on the channel you could order only from the UK, Ireland was quickly added later especially when it was being shown on TnaG in the late evenings and eventually they dropped down to soft encryption and then went clear when they started taking orders from across Europe with dedicated local numbers that you could call to order from. They started to wind down this pan-European approach when they started localised versions like QVC Germany.


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    #55
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    TAFKAlawhec wrote: »
    I think you could be right, that I'm a year out. I think there were some channels like UK Gold that launched soft-encrypted first before becoming a sub-channel.
    Yep, that's correct. UK Gold was initially soft encrypted alright.

    Good point about MTV Europe, it never dawned on me but you're bang on.


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    #56
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,845 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    jca wrote: »
    When the fancy ' all pins connected" scart cables arrived it did away with switching to channel zero for the video channel. We thought the scart picture quality was the bees knees.

    Our VCR at the time used the SCART for teletext decoding and insertion so I think they neglected to include the auto-switching.

    It also, pointlessly, had a clock on the remote control... and a hex number input so you could cheat at Bamboozle.


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    #57
    jca
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,585 ✭✭✭jca


    The last VCR I had was an AKAI and you could put your TV program details into the remote and zap it to the vcr, it worked perfectly. No more hands and knees at the VCR


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    #58
    RINO87
    Registered Users Posts: 2,455 ✭✭✭RINO87


    I remember in the late 80's/early 90's in the midlands we had 10 channels (possibly more were provided, but our tv only went up to twelve!) It included euro sport, sky one, screen sport, sky news etc all relayed from satellite, along with bbc, ch4, itv. Must have been some set up, picture quality was top notch!! Was some shock as a young fella when this got shut down and I no longer had dj kat showing the ninja turtles!!!

    It came back on the air around 2000 (definatly remember watching euro 2000 on the BBC) without the satellite channels and continued up to a few years ago. Cracking reception all for a contribution of about fifty bucks a year.


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    #59
    I swindled the NSA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 150 ✭✭I swindled the NSA


    Was there any listings ever produced (pre the official ones issued by COMREG after legalisation) of the various "defector" (and unlicenced cable) systems around the country detailing area served, frequency channels used, services carried etc In the same manner that there were "Anorak lists" for the pirate radio stations in the same period ?


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    #60
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,060 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    SpaceTime wrote: »
    I often think that access to television influenced social development here. Compare attitudes in the 1980s in rural areas pre-satellite that didn't have overspill signals and urban areas that had large cable uptake... It has to have had a profound impact.

    The Irish equivalent of the 'valley of the clueless' perhaps?

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #61
    Antenna
    Registered Users Posts: 2,306 ✭✭✭Antenna


    A few pictures attached (which some here would be interested in) of a deflector installation up a mountain in rural Co. Mayo taken a few years ago, co-sited with a former 'self-help' relay for RTE also. Obviously the UK channels had been received by satellite, but a bit uphill is another pole with old aerials on the ground which it is safe to assume was formerly used to receive the UK channels from another 'deflector' (physically separated to avoid interference from the outgoing signals).

    I think the deflector had recently closed down, but one of the deflector transmitters was still on air transmitting a satellite box generated "NO/WEAK SIGNAL" prompt (picture taken in car on one of those poor quality monochrome 12volt 5.5 inch CRT TVs with deaf UHF reception) and signal was definitely from that installation).


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