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Economic implcactions of housing in Waterford

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    #32
    spaceCreated
    Registered Users Posts: 389 ✭✭spaceCreated


    Flow Motion wrote: »
    Housing is a basic human right.

    How is it that our parents/grandparents were able to purchase and own their houses regardless of how much they earned?

    I'm not agreeing or disagreeing but many people lived in houses with 2 rooms, had to go to the toilet outside and were lucky to have running water. Freezing in the winter as well. If you wanted to live on 0.2 of an acre in the middle of nowhere and build your own house with your own hands you could likely do it on the dole.


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    #33
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,856 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    you ll actually find, one of the main reasons for the rapid increase in the price of housing has in fact been the increase in the availability of credit, but you re economic texts books wont tell you this, because econ 101 does not believe banks can simply create this form of money, which in fact, is the most common form of money in our modern economies. the result of this commonly ends in people blaming foreigners, the long term unemployed, those that fail to engage in 'personal responsibility'........
    vriesmays wrote: »
    Waterford is full of foreigners and long term unemployed. What's kicking up prices are the housing charities buying for these people.
    spaceCreated wrote: »
    I'm not agreeing or disagreeing but many people lived in houses with 2 rooms, had to go to the toilet outside and were lucky to have running water. Freezing in the winter as well. If you wanted to live on 0.2 of an acre in the middle of nowhere and build your own house with your own hands you could likely do it on the dole.
    spaceCreated wrote: »
    I'm not agreeing or disagreeing but many people lived in houses with 2 rooms, had to go to the toilet outside and were lucky to have running water. Freezing in the winter as well. If you wanted to live on 0.2 of an acre in the middle of nowhere and build your own house with your own hands you could likely do it on the dole.

    we have moved on you know, we ve figured out how to create great wealth, theres no need to be going back to such conditions, i seriously doubt you could build your own house on the dole, many working people cant even do that, some people seriously are deluded with welfare life!!!


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    #34
    vriesmays
    Registered Users Posts: 1,570 ✭✭✭vriesmays


    Yellow_Fern wrote: »
    Plenty of my generation have spent their 20s and many 30s gettings degrees, working 50 or 60 hour weeks, going abroad to get ahead to provide. Mostly we cant even buy and if we rent, we have to pay over a huge percent of our salaries, a far higher chunk than most social housing people who pay something like 40 euro a week and they are not even evicted if they don't pay.
    They should do what their parents did, buy a cheap terraced home off Ballybricken and after a decade upgrade to a larger home in the suburbs.


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    #35
    Yellow_Fern
    Registered Users Posts: 2,578 ✭✭✭Yellow_Fern


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    you ll actually find, one of the main reasons for the rapid increase in the price of housing has in fact been the increase in the availability of credit, but you re economic texts books wont tell you this, because econ 101 does not believe banks can simply create this form of money, which in fact, is the most common form of money in our modern economies. the result of this commonly ends in people blaming foreigners, the long term unemployed, those that fail to engage in 'personal responsibility'........

    Given that there is a massive cultural shift to more conservative banking since 2008 and that lending is far stricter than it used to be it is clear the issue is complicated that just being credit driven.


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    #36
    spaceCreated
    Registered Users Posts: 389 ✭✭spaceCreated


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    we have moved on you know, we ve figured out how to create great wealth, theres no need to be going back to such conditions, i seriously doubt you could build your own house on the dole, many working people cant even do that, some people seriously are deluded with welfare life!!!

    Yeah but you asked how did our parents and grandparents afford to have their own house... thats how.... absoloutely horrible conditions. I gave you your answer why are you arguing?

    You could buy blocks and cement every week, you'd be essentially destitute but thats what they lived in before and thats the time youre asking about....


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    #37
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,856 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Yellow_Fern wrote: »
    Given that there is a massive cultural shift to more conservative banking since 2008 and that lending is far stricter than it used to be it is clear the issue is complicated that just being credit driven.

    unfortunately we havent changed much in how money is created, and how that is used and distributed, as soon as central banks create it, it moves to the place of least resistance, i.e. the financial sector, whereby its simply molested then released as credit, which in turn becomes our debt, obviously it also causes further asset price inflation in regards stock markets etc. its a mess, and im not sure anybody knows what to do next


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    #38
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,856 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    spaceCreated wrote: »
    Yeah but you asked how did our parents and grandparents afford to have their own house... thats how.... absoloutely horrible conditions. I gave you your answer why are you arguing?

    You could buy blocks and cement every week, you'd be essentially destitute but thats what they lived in before and thats the time youre asking about....

    again, our current world is vastly different now, past methods more than likely will not work, and past times cannot be used to compare, your method may take decades to do so.

    again, theres no need to be returning to previous times, we ve figured out how to create great wealth, we just havent figured out how to distribute it very well


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    #39
    spaceCreated
    Registered Users Posts: 389 ✭✭spaceCreated


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    again, our current world is vastly different now, past methods more than likely will not work, and past times cannot be used to compare, your method may take decades to do so.

    again, theres no need to be returning to previous times, we ve figured out how to create great wealth, we just havent figured out how to distribute it very well

    You asked how did they afford to have their own house thats how...

    You haven't figured out how to accept an answer.


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    #40
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,856 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    spaceCreated wrote: »
    You asked how did they afford to have their own house thats how...

    You haven't figured out how to accept an answer.

    i of course have accepted it, how is it relevant to todays housing issues?

    baring in mind, i know very few that actually done this, my parents and grandparents had their houses built for them, most others i know are the same


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    #41
    spaceCreated
    Registered Users Posts: 389 ✭✭spaceCreated


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    i of course have accepted it, how is it relevant to todays housing issues?

    baring in mind, i know very few that actually done this, my parents and grandparents had their houses built for them, most others i know are the same

    I dont know how tis relevant, you asked the question no matter how poor they were how were they able to afford the houses... I just gave an answer.

    Great for them, they obviously werent as poor as others were.

    Edit: and thats leaving out the passed down homes.


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    #42
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,856 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    spaceCreated wrote: »
    I dont know how tis relevant, you asked the question no matter how poor they were how were they able to afford the houses... I just gave an answer.

    Great for them, they obviously werent as poor as others were.

    Edit: and thats leaving out the passed down homes.

    yea they were indeed lucky, but did of course work hard for them, as most always do, but we do live in a very different world now, past methods probably wont work for most


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    #43
    spaceCreated
    Registered Users Posts: 389 ✭✭spaceCreated


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    yea they were indeed lucky, but did of course work hard for them, as most always do, but we do live in a very different world now, past methods probably wont work for most

    Be a good start if you could invest money in something other than the managed pension funds which are complete rip offs. Rather than invest in shares etc. in Ireland you invest in property because of taxes and inaccessibility.


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    #44
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,856 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    spaceCreated wrote: »
    Be a good start if you could invest money in something other than the managed pension funds which are complete rip offs. Rather than invest in shares etc. in Ireland you invest in property because of taxes and inaccessibility.

    we re turned one of our most critical of needs, i.e. housing/accommodation, into an asset, thankfully prices never fall!


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    #45
    Yellow_Fern
    Registered Users Posts: 2,578 ✭✭✭Yellow_Fern


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    we re turned one of our most critical of needs, i.e. housing/accommodation, into an asset, thankfully prices never fall!

    This is one of the many repeated ideas from the left via the US but it is highly misleading. Long term analysis of the price of housing in Dublin shows there has always been booms and busts. Housing was always a financial asset. There were massive booms in the late 1700s and 1800s. In some cases real prices adjusting for inflation were lower in the 1920s than 1800.

    Deeter, Karl, David Duffy, and Frank Quinn. "Dublin house prices: A history of booms and busts from 1708-1949." Available at SSRN 2871321 (2016).


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    #46
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,856 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Yellow_Fern wrote: »
    This is one of the many repeated ideas from the left via the US but it is highly misleading. Long term analysis of the price of housing in Dublin shows there has always been booms and busts. Housing was always a financial asset. There were massive booms in the late 1700s and 1800s. In some cases real prices adjusting for inflation were lower in the 1920s than 1800.

    Deeter, Karl, David Duffy, and Frank Quinn. "Dublin house prices: A history of booms and busts from 1708-1949." Available at SSRN 2871321 (2016).

    true, but again, its next to impossible to compare each boom and bust cycles, as our economies are now dramatically different, far more complex, and deeply intertwined with the global financial system, therefore we are in fact more exposed to external shocks, and of course internal shocks to, than ever before. this pandemic has in fact shown, we ve been working so hard making our economies more efficient and productive, that we have in fact made them extremely fragile towards serious shocks, as we ve experienced in the last crash, and potential now again.

    and again, if you compare the inflation rates of house prices, compared to wage inflation, particularly over the last couple of decades, you ll find they are effectively, out of sync, i.e. house price inflation has been far greater than wage inflation. this approach is now running out of steam, hence growing anger, which is being expressed in many ways, in particular, radical election and voting outcomes, including our own, i.e. its now starting to fail, and in a big way.

    we ve effectively put this thinking into hyper drive over the last couple of decades, via financialisation of our economies, hence our current outcomes


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