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Dublin 15 is going to get a lot more congested.

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    #62
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    This was the first post in the thread...
    Phil.x wrote: »
    Man when will all this building in D15 stop.
    Roads, rail, bus, amenities are at breaking point and in some cases broken.

    https://consult.fingal.ie/en/consultation/barnhill-local-area-plan-2017-2023-strategic-issues-paper

    The answer is they won't stop. Because there is green land, and protected area to build on. They can sell the idea of public transport and transport infrastructure regardless of any issues.

    The train service is pretty good considering the limitations of poor planning and resourcing effecting it.


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    #63
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    People who fixate on standing are missing the point. Standing is normal. It's the overcrowding that's not normal.


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    #64
    Former Former
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,728 ✭✭✭Former Former


    The population of Dublin is projected to increase by 300,000 to 400,000 in the next 15 years. We need houses and we don't need agricultural land.

    In a weird way, it might be good for those of us who have to get the train. More people living along the train line improves the business case for an upgraded service.


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    #65
    Zaph
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 47,274 ✭✭✭✭Zaph


    I get the train to and from Docklands, and with my hours I’m lucky enough that I can avoid the absolute peak times most days. However there are two major failings with the service:

    1 – intercity trains are not suitable for a commuter service. A single narrow aisle with doors at either end of the carriage makes it hugely inefficient for passenger disembarking, particularly when the whole train is emptying at Docklands. It simply shouldn’t take that long to get everyone off a commuter train. It also makes it more difficult for passengers to get off at intermediate stations when the aisle is full of people standing. The rolling stock used needs to revert to the older commuter trains, or if they’re not available there needs to be some investment in newer models.

    2 – the trains are simply not long enough. My normal train home is the 4.55pm train, which has three cars, although previously it usually had four. For the number of passengers at that time, three is plenty. However the next train at 5.25pm also usually has three cars, and if I’m delayed and have to get that train it’s clear that an extra carriage, or even two more, is needed as people are frequently wedged down the length of the aisle (again part of the problem is the unsuitability of the train type).

    It’s not simply a case of saying don’t build any more houses in D15, it’s a fast growing area with demand for housing that needs to be met. But not keeping the infrastructure up to speed with the growth of the area is a major failing. The train is the quickest and most efficient way of moving large numbers of people in and out of the city, but if Irish Rail are going to continually ignore the fact that they haven’t put enough capacity on the service at peak hours then naturally people are going to switch to alternative modes of transport, which for many will be their car. This results in clogged roads and both road and rail users dissatisfied with the length of their commute. And telling people that they can cycle isn’t necessarily a solution either. Due to distances involved it may not be a viable option for a lot of people, and many others, myself included, simply have no interest in cycling in and out of town every day.


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    #66
    Larbre34
    Registered Users Posts: 23,797 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    I couldn't argue with all my fellow D15ers about the congestion on the trains. Irish Rail is clearly dysfunctional at this point due to lack of investment over the recession period and they are cutting services off-peak and off-season wherever they possibly can, and its not good enough. The change over of the Maynooth line to DART standard seems further away than ever at this point. Although the opening of LUAS to Broombridge before Christmas will at least break up the passenger demand from Maynooth-Pearse.

    On the plus side, we now have the most powerful TD of them all on our patch, time for a renewed campaign on D15 public transport for his attention I think.


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    #67
    AlanG
    Registered Users Posts: 1,414 ✭✭✭AlanG


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    On the plus side, we now have the most powerful TD of them all on our patch, time for a renewed campaign on D15 public transport for his attention I think.
    I wouldn't hold my breath. When he was minister for transport he directed all funding towards the northern line and when he was minister for health he refused to even entertain the idea of putting the new children's hospital in Blanch.
    He seems to be afraid to represent his constituency for fear of damaging his national ambitions. He is guaranteed to be reelected but has almost zero chance of bringing in a running mate so he has no real motivation to fight for D15.


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    #68
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    That's true he wouldn't want to give any ammunition to the idea he's a Dublin only politician , and a Dublin 4, one at that.


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    #69
    Phil.x
    Registered Users Posts: 1,723 ✭✭✭Phil.x


    Lots of talk here.

    https://consult.fingal.ie/en/node/8009/submissions


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    #70
    Rosser
    Registered Users Posts: 591 ✭✭✭Rosser


    AlanG wrote: »
    he refused to even entertain the idea of putting the new children's hospital in Blanch.
    He seems to be afraid to represent his constituency for fear of damaging his national ambitions. He is guaranteed to be reelected but has almost zero chance of bringing in a running mate so he has no real motivation to fight for D15.

    Without wanting to divert to politics the location for the Children's hospital was decided by an international panel of experts the disfunction is the HSE is precisely because of meddling and mismanagement from political classes. The Cath lab in Waterford is a perfect example as is the demand from every TD to have an A&E in their town when all best practice points to specialist care centres having far and away the best clinical results. That said not to locate in Blanch is dissapointing but he's leader for all the country not just D15.

    Back on topic the Maynooth one is long overdue upgrade / electricfication / increased frequency and a removal of as many level crossings as possible but look at the freak out over closing the level crossing on the road to Porterstown or the objection to doing something at Clonsilla.


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    #71
    vegetables
    Registered Users Posts: 92 ✭✭vegetables


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    I couldn't argue with all my fellow D15ers about the congestion on the trains. Irish Rail is clearly dysfunctional at this point due to lack of investment over the recession period and they are cutting services off-peak and off-season wherever they possibly can, and its not good enough. The change over of the Maynooth line to DART standard seems further away than ever at this point. Although the opening of LUAS to Broombridge before Christmas will at least break up the passenger demand from Maynooth-Pearse.

    Thats grand for the mornings alright.

    But won't it be the reverse in the evenings. Everyone piling on at broombridge LUAS.

    How many more sardines can we fit in these tins.


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    #72
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Rosser wrote: »
    Without wanting to divert to politics the location for the Children's hospital was decided by an international panel of experts...

    ...not exactly....

    https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/mater-site-all-wrong-for-children-1.1293250
    Rosser wrote: »
    Back on topic the Maynooth one is long overdue upgrade / electricfication / increased frequency and a removal of as many level crossings as possible but look at the freak out over closing the level crossing on the road to Porterstown or the objection to doing something at Clonsilla.

    The people who use it as a rat run won't want it closed as its their only route, and the people who are in the direct path of the new bridges won't want it either as it turns their residential roads in to grid lock and a speed way the rest of the time. Why because the road infrastructure cannot cope with the demands on it. So they have to shove it down estates and back roads.

    Not that it matters because the planners and many of the local authorities almost give in to the developers at the expense of the local community/residents.


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    #73
    Former Former
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,728 ✭✭✭Former Former


    vegetables wrote: »
    Thats grand for the mornings alright.

    But won't it be the reverse in the evenings. Everyone piling on at broombridge LUAS.

    How many more sardines can we fit in these tins.

    I don't know how many commuters are going to be transferring from train to Luas and vice versa. The Luas will go to Cabra, Phibsboro and the north inner city, none of which are huge employment areas. If you were going to the actual city centre, most people would be better off staying on the train.

    The only big contributor will be the DIT at Grangegorman, but that will hopefully be staggered rather than all getting on at rush hour.


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    #74
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    I would be an advantage if you were coming in on train and wanted to go south-side there is only one train in the morning that does that currently.

    I expect though the journey time will make it unattractive to many. Maybe not.


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    #75
    lucernarian
    Registered Users Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    Not having the porterstown level crossing closed by now is inane nonsense. It's pure codology considering there's a rail crossing a couple of hundred metres away. Because "rubbish might be dumped there"? As if it isn't on any old bit of park already.


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    #76
    Former Former
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,728 ✭✭✭Former Former


    lucernarian wrote: »
    Not having the porterstown level crossing closed by now is inane nonsense. It's pure codology considering there's a rail crossing a couple of hundred metres away. Because "rubbish might be dumped there"? As if it isn't on any old bit of park already.

    There are particular circumstances relating to that particular stretch of road though.


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    #77
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    lucernarian wrote: »
    Not having the porterstown level crossing closed by now is inane nonsense. It's pure codology considering there's a rail crossing a couple of hundred metres away. Because "rubbish might be dumped there"? As if it isn't on any old bit of park already.

    Could say the same for coolmine. Of course Dr troy bridge just leads to rat runs though an estate or down porterstown Rd. Neither suitable for the volumes being funnelled in to them


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    #78
    vegetables
    Registered Users Posts: 92 ✭✭vegetables


    beauf wrote: »
    Could say the same for coolmine. Of course Dr troy bridge just leads to rat runs though an estate or down porterstown Rd. Neither suitable for the volumes being funnelled in to them

    Maybe just have the crossing normally closed to traffic, opened 3-4 times a day.

    Anyway, from the businesses opening thread.

    .............................................................................................................

    https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.38510.../data=!3m1!1e3

    The triangular shaped plot bounded by the Clonsilla Link Road, the Clonsilla Road and the back of the Portersgate Estate has planning granted for 90+ residential units, mix of houses and apartments, a supermarket (my guess would be Lidl), a creche, offices, café, and a retail unit. No bookies or take away allowed in the retail unit. FW16A/0176

    http://documents.fingalcoco.ie/North...s/00564412.pdf

    http://documents.fingalcoco.ie/North...s/00561037.pdf

    This is all just over 100 m from the new planning application for a restaurant /
    apartment development beside the Applegreen on the Clonsilla Road.


    ..............................................................................................................


    Surely if that goes ahead there would have to be more passenger capacity made available.


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    #79
    lucernarian
    Registered Users Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    beauf wrote: »
    Could say the same for coolmine. Of course Dr troy bridge just leads to rat runs though an estate or down porterstown Rd. Neither suitable for the volumes being funnelled in to them
    The solution being proposed there is an over- or under-pass. Completely closing that would put a lot of traffic onto other roads that are of the same character and standard as the road going through Coolmine station, at least compared to the glorified boreen that is Porterstown's LC.


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    #80
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    When I grew up here all these roads were all like that, and country lanes. Only big road was Clonsilla Rd, and it was never big enough for the volumes using it. Even back then.

    In the next 20yrs I think we can expect suburbs to join up all the way to dunboyne, and lexslip all connected by these inadequate roads..


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    #81
    ongarboy
    Registered Users Posts: 5,201 ✭✭✭ongarboy


    An Bord Pleanala have granted permission to 3/4 storey apartment blocks to be built on the infill site to the west of Allendale Square. It will also provide pedestrian access to Ongar Distributor Road from Allendale Square. The management company of the square had objected but the planning inspector felt the objections were unwarranted.


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    #82
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,192 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    beauf wrote: »
    Could say the same for coolmine. Of course Dr troy bridge just leads to rat runs though an estate or down porterstown Rd. Neither suitable for the volumes being funnelled in to them


    The level crossings should all be closed.

    The Porterstown one is used so infrequently that it just isn't needed.

    Clonsilla can easily be replaced by another crossing as part of all the development in the area.

    Coolmine is more difficult, but there was a proposal recently that got shot down by local residents at the expense of all the commuters in Dublin 15.


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    #83
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    I guess they are tired of it taking 30 mins to go get out of their estate because everyone from outside the area wants to use it as a rat run.
    Its quite nostalgic back in the 90's Laurel Lodge was grid locked like this too.
    The Porterstown one is handy to avoid the constant tail backs over the Dr Troy bridge and at Coolmine.

    I don't commute at peak in the car. Doesn't effect me. Except that I no longer schedule any meetings/appointments locally, between 7.30 and 9.15am. Local traffic is just bedlam.


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    #84
    Former Former
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,728 ✭✭✭Former Former


    blanch152 wrote: »
    The level crossings should all be closed.

    The Porterstown one is used so infrequently that it just isn't needed.

    Clonsilla can easily be replaced by another crossing as part of all the development in the area.

    Coolmine is more difficult, but there was a proposal recently that got shot down by local residents at the expense of all the commuters in Dublin 15.

    The Coolmine proposal was absolutely mental though. It was a total non-starter.

    I would have thought Clonsilla was a good candidate for closure.


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    #85
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    I expect they will all be closed eventually.


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    #86
    lucernarian
    Registered Users Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    The Coolmine issue can't be just ignored, much as the local residents might want in dreamland. Sooner or later there'll be 10-minute spaced trains almost continuously throughout the daya, before you consider the Sligo/Longford/Docklands ones. If the residents are happy with permanent crossing closure then so be it.


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    #87
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Apart from the issue of through traffic. Its actually a main route for local journeys.
    If it was closed it would mean a big detour for local traffic. Its a massive residential area.
    Planners are trying to push traffic through it that has no where to go.

    Considering all the housing being planned upstream of this. I expect it will get much harder to get on the train here in the future.


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    #88
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,192 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Former Former wrote: »
    The Coolmine proposal was absolutely mental though. It was a total non-starter.

    I would have thought Clonsilla was a good candidate for closure.


    Why was it a non-starter? The crossing was being shifted two hundred yard and turned into a bridge, I just can't understand the objections.


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    #89
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Turn a quiet estate into a traffic jam 4~5 hours at day at the bottom of your garden. Who wouldn't want that.


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    #90
    January
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,865 ✭✭✭✭January


    beauf wrote: »
    Turn a quiet estate into a traffic jam 4~5 hours at day at the bottom of your garden. Who wouldn't want that.

    The bridge at Cabra has worked quite well and people's houses were disturbed there. I think it'll just have to be something that happens. Same in Clonsilla.


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    #91
    lucernarian
    Registered Users Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    beauf wrote: »
    Turn a quiet estate into a traffic jam 4~5 hours at day at the bottom of your garden. Who wouldn't want that.
    I can't see how it would turn into a traffic jam, considering you're removing the main cause of the traffic jam (the level crossing). And as I implied earlier, the other roads in the area - particularly Clonsilla Road and the junctions near the fire station, would act as their own bottleneck anyway. There would be somewhat more traffic coming from Delwood I suspect (no longer going to Roselawn and Castleknock station bridge), but not enough to make a material difference.

    I still feel the objections to Coolmine crossing are myopic and misguided.


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