Western Rail Corridor / Rail Trail Discussion

westtip · 01-08-2020 10:45pm

ShaneC1600 wrote: »

Why would you want to? Why would you want a greenway beside the railway? I understand along the disussed railway even if its not in a nice scenic area. Its bananas. Who would want to walk or cycle beside an operating railway, we have a wonderful countryside, and a greenway is perfect for showcasing our countryside to tourists but just sticking a greenway beside any old railway is just lazy. Galway has more to offer to tourists and locals than a half ar*ed greenway beside the railway just because a few "greenway on or beside railway leaders" from around the country say its the best we can offer.

It's really a matter of being pragmatic, this is a doable option. That is really why it is being proposed and no harm, it may not be the most scenic idea but it is a workable idea, that is the only reason I support it. BTW I would agree with the same for the WRC if that was ever going to be built.

Carawaystick · 02-08-2020 12:47am

ShaneC1600 wrote: »

Why would you want to? Why would you want a greenway beside the railway? I understand along the disussed railway even if its not in a nice scenic area. Its bananas. Who would want to walk or cycle beside an operating railway, we have a wonderful countryside, and a greenway is perfect for showcasing our countryside to tourists but just sticking a greenway beside any old railway is just lazy. Galway has more to offer to tourists and locals than a half ar*ed greenway beside the railway just because a few "greenway on or beside railway leaders" from around the country say its the best we can offer.

And yet there's greenway alongside the dart line in Dublin, new one too, opened in Covid, with trains every few minutes, instead of the hourly singletrack frequencies in Galway....

eastwest · 02-08-2020 8:44am

ShaneC1600 wrote: »

Why would you want to? Why would you want a greenway beside the railway? I understand along the disussed railway even if its not in a nice scenic area. Its bananas. Who would want to walk or cycle beside an operating railway, we have a wonderful countryside, and a greenway is perfect for showcasing our countryside to tourists but just sticking a greenway beside any old railway is just lazy. Galway has more to offer to tourists and locals than a half ar*ed greenway beside the railway just because a few "greenway on or beside railway leaders" from around the country say its the best we can offer.

Trains in Ireland are not exactly passing every ten minutes. If a greenway was to be routed in part along the edge of the Dublin Galway alignment it would help get the route established, and nobody would be bothered by the occasional passing train.
The cycle path in Monkstown in Dublin is only a few feet from the DART line, and the Royal Canal greenway north of Lucan is just six feet from the nearest rail on the Dublin Sligo line, which also carries a fairly busy commuter service. In both cases, nobody passes a bit of heed of the trains.
The thing about trains is that you know they aren't going to stray across the fence and knock you over. Unlike cycleways along main roads, a solution proposed by a number of anti-greenway councillors in respect of the Athlone-Galway route, your family will be dead safe on a parallel greenway.
And if the rail report finds in favour of a railway north of Athenry, that's how it should be done, with no more delays. If it doesn't, the cheaper option of the track bed should be implemented without delay, to take advantage of the available funding and indeed to preserve the route for posterity.

02-08-2020 9:50am

From the Sligo Mayo Greenway Facebook page

https://www.facebook.com/398227776918798/posts/4091546237586915/

Delighted to see that Sinn Fein has come on board the western rail trail campaign. SF TD Martin Kenny pictured yesterday during a photo op with two other pro-greenway TDs, Frank Feighan and Marian Harkin. The TDs were in Leitrim, celebrating the funding given to the trail from Bellaghy to Enniskillen.

SF politicians in Sligo and Mayo had in the past been strong opponents of this project, which aims to link the Dublin Galway greenway to the north west via Athenry, Tuam, Claremorris, Kiltimagh, Collooney and Manorhamilton, but it's great to see them supporting it now.

Well done to Martin Kenny for firmly nailing his colours to the mast yesterday. He could easily have stayed away, but instead chose to attend and support our campaign. His support is appreciated.

ShaneC1600 · 02-08-2020 10:08am

eastwest wrote: »

Trains in Ireland are not exactly passing every ten minutes. If a greenway was to be routed in part along the edge of the Dublin Galway alignment it would help get the route established, and nobody would be bothered by the occasional passing train.
The cycle path in Monkstown in Dublin is only a few feet from the DART line, and the Royal Canal greenway north of Lucan is just six feet from the nearest rail on the Dublin Sligo line, which also carries a fairly busy commuter service. In both cases, nobody passes a bit of heed of the trains.
The thing about trains is that you know they aren't going to stray across the fence and knock you over. Unlike cycleways along main roads, a solution proposed by a number of anti-greenway councillors in respect of the Athlone-Galway route, your family will be dead safe on a parallel greenway.
And if the rail report finds in favour of a railway north of Athenry, that's how it should be done, with no more delays. If it doesn't, the cheaper option of the track bed should be implemented without delay, to take advantage of the available funding and indeed to preserve the route for posterity.

I am not referring to the passing trains or the distance to the rails at all. The scenery is what I am referring to and we have better in Galway. I am not familiar with monkstown cyclepath but I'd imagine its along the coast providing a safe cyclepath for 000's of people with a nice view of the bay?
Yes we should take advantage of a parallel greenway when all other avenues are exhausted and for limited lengths but not as a first attempt for an entire stretch of track imo especially if we are selling it as a tourist attraction.

ezstreet5 · 02-08-2020 10:33am

Deleted User wrote: »

From the Sligo Mayo Greenway Facebook page

https://www.facebook.com/398227776918798/posts/4091546237586915/

Delighted to see that Sinn Fein has come on board the western rail trail campaign. SF TD Martin Kenny pictured yesterday during a photo op with two other pro-greenway TDs, Frank Feighan and Marian Harkin. The TDs were in Leitrim, celebrating the funding given to the trail from Bellaghy to Enniskillen.

SF politicians in Sligo and Mayo had in the past been strong opponents of this project, which aims to link the Dublin Galway greenway to the north west via Athenry, Tuam, Claremorris, Kiltimagh, Collooney and Manorhamilton, but it's great to see them supporting it now.

Well done to Martin Kenny for firmly nailing his colours to the mast yesterday. He could easily have stayed away, but instead chose to attend and support our campaign. His support is appreciated.

Highly misleading FB post. There is no need to stretch the truth an extra 125km. The €300,000 grant to Sligo Co. Council is for "Preliminary Design and Environmental Evaluation for a 35.5 km from Cooloney Sligo to Bellaghy Cavan." It has nothing to do with any phase of the WRC or any part of the line from Athenry to Colloney.

eastwest · 02-08-2020 10:40am

So you don't support all the funding, just the bit that applies to Collooney to Enniskillen?

eastwest · 02-08-2020 10:47am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

From the Sligo Mayo Greenway Facebook page

https://www.facebook.com/398227776918798/posts/4091546237586915/

That's a pretty amazing flip/flop by Kenny, I'd imagine his superiors won't be happy at all. Their stance in sligo has always been anti greenway, and his attempts to cash in on the greenway vote won't sit well with the big bosses.

02-08-2020 10:47am

ShaneC1600 wrote: »

I am not referring to the passing trains or the distance to the rails at all. The scenery is what I am referring to and we have better in Galway. I am not familiar with monkstown cyclepath but I'd imagine its along the coast providing a safe cyclepath for 000's of people with a nice view of the bay?
Yes we should take advantage of a parallel greenway when all other avenues are exhausted and for limited lengths but not as a first attempt for an entire stretch of track imo especially if we are selling it as a tourist attraction.

I hear people going on about scenery a lot in relation to greenways and yes, its a great thing to have but it is not the most important thing in relation to greenways, not by a long way. The safe, segregated route itself is the primary attraction

Having a nice view makes it easy to market, but you will have people using it regardless simply because its away from motorised traffic

In the last number of weeks I've done

- Westport to Newport greenway (20km)- Went no futher due to poor experience. Might revisit again in the future but go from the Achill side
- Waterford to Kilmacthomas greenway (50km)
- Moate to Mullingar greenway (60km)
- Ballynacarrigy to Abbeyshrule Royal Canal Greenway (20km) - Rained out so only a short spin. Planning to go back soon

In terms of "best"

Surface
Moate to Mullingar wins. Its a beautiful smooth layer of tarmac of consistent quality
Westport to Newport comes last, with a load of crappy gravel in a lot of areas on this short section. Its only just ahead of the canal greenway on this front. Both are actually dangerous at some points in terms of surface quality

Setup
Waterford to Kilmacthomas wins hands down, especially in relation to controls at junctions with roads
Again, Westport comes last here, with terrible controls at junctions with roads, crossing driveways with stop signage for greenway users. I think there was something like 30 -40 interruptions to the 11km journey.

Facilities
A tie between the Moate and Waterford routes with plenty of park benches to stop and sit at for a bite to eat, free water points, toilets etc.

Last on this one would be the canal greenway. No water points and no toilets but there were small areas to sit and take a break at the villages

Scenery
They all win, Ireland is a beautiful place but at no point did scenery figure into my decision as to which route to cycle. If its segregated from motorised traffic, I'm going to use it.

ezstreet5 · 02-08-2020 4:08pm

eastwest wrote: »

So you don't support all the funding, just the bit that applies to Collooney to Enniskillen?

What's the other "bit" you are referring to?

ShaneC1600 · 02-08-2020 10:23pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I hear people going on about scenery a lot in relation to greenways and yes, its a great thing to have but it is not the most important thing in relation to greenways, not by a long way. The safe, segregated route itself is the primary attraction

Having a nice view makes it easy to market, but you will have people using it regardless simply because its away from motorised traffic

I too have done a few greenways this past week and weather was the biggest issue we had!! I guess everyone is different because I thought the nicest thing we encountered was the scenery and the one I would go back to would definitely be the western greenway, Mulranny to Achill section, truly stunning. We also did a little section around Boyle into Lough Key, thats really nice too. Closest one to me I wont be going back to because I would prefer to walk the road at home but I guess everyone to their own. Our needs are probably a little different to others, we are going slow with two kids and stopping frequently others might be going for a good rip on a bike and scenery may not enter their heads.

westtip · 03-08-2020 4:55pm

ezstreet5 wrote: »

Highly misleading FB post. There is no need to stretch the truth an extra 125km. The €300,000 grant to Sligo Co. Council is for "Preliminary Design and Environmental Evaluation for a 35.5 km from Cooloney Sligo to Bellaghy Cavan." It has nothing to do with any phase of the WRC or any part of the line from Athenry to Colloney.

Have to disagree with you on this one and would refer you to the already completed feasibility study done on the line from collooney to bellaghy/charlestown which only concerned itself with a greenway on said closed railway route. So yes it does cover part of the so called western rail corridor on the closed line north of Charlestown to Collooney which is a large part of the line from athenry to collooney.

ezstreet5 · 03-08-2020 5:15pm

westtip wrote: »

Have to disagree with you on this one and would refer you to the already completed feasibility study done on the line from collooney to bellaghy/charlestown which only concerned itself with a greenway on said closed railway route. So yes it does cover part of the so called western rail corridor on the closed line north of Charlestown to Collooney which is a large part of the line from athenry to collooney.

I saw that at second glance. The "Cavan" in the announcement is an error, and the funding does correspond to the prior feasibility study, which is on the WRC to the Mayo border.

Pete_Cavan · 03-08-2020 8:43pm

ShaneC1600 wrote: »

I am not referring to the passing trains or the distance to the rails at all. The scenery is what I am referring to and we have better in Galway. I am not familiar with monkstown cyclepath but I'd imagine its along the coast providing a safe cyclepath for 000's of people with a nice view of the bay?
Yes we should take advantage of a parallel greenway when all other avenues are exhausted and for limited lengths but not as a first attempt for an entire stretch of track imo especially if we are selling it as a tourist attraction.

A greenway alongside part of the currently operational WRC could potentially connect the Dublin - Galway EuroVelo route and/or a Greenway from Athenry north to the West Clare Railway Greenway and/or Limerick to Scarriff Greenway.

A better solution would be for the existing railway between Athenry and Ardrahan to be used for greenway and a new rail line built directly from Ardrahan to east of Oranmore. That would reduce travel distance for the trains and have the junction facing the right way, making the train more competitive. Not that I think this will happen.

mayo.mick · 03-08-2020 9:19pm

ShaneC1600 wrote: »

I am not referring to the passing trains or the distance to the rails at all. The scenery is what I am referring to and we have better in Galway. I am not familiar with monkstown cyclepath but I'd imagine its along the coast providing a safe cyclepath for 000's of people with a nice view of the bay?
Yes we should take advantage of a parallel greenway when all other avenues are exhausted and for limited lengths but not as a first attempt for an entire stretch of track imo especially if we are selling it as a tourist attraction.

Ahh, this old chestnut ( The scenery is what I am referring to ). It really sickens me hole when I hear this. Alright, I travel all around Mayo, Ireland in fact, I don't take much notice of the scenery. At least. anywhere I've been before.

Think of the tourists though, its all scenic to them, completely different to what there're used to.

I was in NY (a few times) but I remember the 1st time I was in Times Square. That was scenic to me, coming from the west of Ireland. Went back at night time to get some photos, spent a couple of hours there shooting*. That, was scenic to me. What would a New Yorker, from the 86th floor of a building in Manhattan think of our "non scenery" in East Mayo???

*It was funny actually, I nearly got arrested that night, sitting on a little island about 2ft wide in the middle of the road, in the middle of Times Square. Who pulled up beside me, in the cop car, a Mayo NY cop from Claremorris!

ShaneC1600 · 03-08-2020 10:28pm

mayo.mick wrote: »

Ahh, this old chestnut ( The scenery is what I am referring to ). It really sickens me hole when I hear this. Alright, I travel all around Mayo, Ireland in fact, I don't take much notice of the scenery. At least. anywhere I've been before.

Think of the tourists though, its all scenic to them, completely different to what there're used to.

I was in NY (a few times) but I remember the 1st time I was in Times Square. That was scenic to me, coming from the west of Ireland. Went back at night time to get some photos, spent a couple of hours there shooting*. That, was scenic to me. What would a New Yorker, from the 86th floor of a building in Manhattan think of our "non scenery" in East Mayo???

*It was funny actually, I nearly got arrested that night, sitting on a little island about 2ft wide in the middle of the road, in the middle of Times Square. Who pulled up beside me, in the cop car, a Mayo NY cop from Claremorris!

Equally sickens me own hole when people want to sell out what we can offer. If an asphelt surface with a few bench seats between athenry and Claremorris is the best you want for a greenway good for you. I believe we can offer more.
I too travel Ireland for work and pleasure doing adventure racing and I walk that particular stretch of track frequently. It offers nothing, the towns it passes offer very little and a greenway will not improve that, these towns need to improve what they offer and a few coffee shops and bike shops really won't suffice.
And as for not taking much notice of scenery, I'd well believe you are in the minority especially when it comes to enjoying greenways.

If the scenery is all the same to tourists why do areas of pure natural beauty in Ireland out perform other areas? Why are the greenways in areas of real beauty always used as the champions of irish greenways?

03-08-2020 10:36pm

ShaneC1600 wrote: »

Equally sickens me own hole when people want to sell out what we can offer. If an asphelt surface with a few bench seats between athenry and Claremorris is the best you want for a greenway good for you. I believe we can offer more.
I too travel Ireland for work and pleasure doing adventure racing and I walk that particular stretch of track frequently. It offers nothing, the towns it passes offer very little and a greenway will not improve that, these towns need to improve what they offer and a few coffee shops and bike shops really won't suffice.
And as for not taking much notice of scenery, I'd well believe you are in the minority especially when it comes to enjoying greenways.

If the scenery is all the same to tourists why do areas of pure natural beauty in Ireland out perform other areas? Why are the greenways in areas of real beauty always used as the champions of irish greenways?

As mentioned, already, scenery is important yes, but it is only one element. Please stop trying to paint it as more than it is.

The protected route, away from motorised traffic, is the main draw. Regardless of whatever else it might offer, if it is that., it will attract users.

I for one think the scenery around rural Ireland is beautiful no matter where you are. Green fields, forests, lakes, mountains, rivers, bogs, its all good in my book.

ezstreet5 · 03-08-2020 10:59pm

mayo.mick wrote: »

Ahh, this old chestnut ( The scenery is what I am referring to ). It really sickens me hole when I hear this. Alright, I travel all around Mayo, Ireland in fact, I don't take much notice of the scenery. At least. anywhere I've been before.

Think of the tourists though, its all scenic to them, completely different to what there're used to.

I was in NY (a few times) but I remember the 1st time I was in Times Square. That was scenic to me, coming from the west of Ireland. Went back at night time to get some photos, spent a couple of hours there shooting*. That, was scenic to me. What would a New Yorker, from the 86th floor of a building in Manhattan think of our "non scenery" in East Mayo???

*It was funny actually, I nearly got arrested that night, sitting on a little island about 2ft wide in the middle of the road, in the middle of Times Square. Who pulled up beside me, in the cop car, a Mayo NY cop from Claremorris!

This is the most naïve post ever. Perhaps a decade ago, an American couple I've worked with visited the West of Ireland for a cycle tour. Their route was carefully planned from Clare to Galway to Connemara, stopping in all the best towns their research directed them to. And when their precious week arrived, they completed that cycle tour through the wind and rain, and without one photo. They've never set foot on Irish soil again, but annually visit Cornwall, or the Cotswolds, or Paris, or the Swiss Alps, perhaps twice each a year.

The majority of American tourists visit Dublin for one night, before heading onwards. Those tourists that do venture west head for Dingle, the Cliffs of Moher, Galway, or Westport. A subset of those will reach Sligo and Derry, or even the smaller towns. They are not going to be doe-eyed enamored by cycling on a flat, inland greenway looking at bogs and cows, thinking that they have now connected with their O'Something roots. They will not understand or care why Mayo once had 3x its current population, except that a "potato famine" around Civil War times caused a lot of people to move to America. They are not going to be particularly interested in our monastic ruins, Irish language, holy wells, or heritage towns, unless there is a decent pint or a lively session.

It is not the reverse of an Irish person seeing New York for the first time.

ShaneC1600 · 04-08-2020 7:37am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

As mentioned, already, scenery is important yes, but it is only one element. Please stop trying to paint it as more than it is.

The protected route, away from motorised traffic, is the main draw. Regardless of whatever else it might offer, if it is that., it will attract users.

I for one think the scenery around rural Ireland is beautiful no matter where you are. Green fields, forests, lakes, mountains, rivers, bogs, its all good in my book.

Fair enough, but when the greenway network is extended and tourists are sitting in The Quays and they are considering where to go for a days cycle where do you think they will hit, along the railway to Tuam or Miltown and see some cows or head west along the lakes and mountains? If planning a trip before they arrive where would they plan to go? Scenery may not be important in your view, but when all things are equal and alternatives are close id imagine scenery becomes quite important to tourists.
I'm not saying scenery is a dealbreaker, just how this greenway campaign are selling it to locals as a massive tourist attraction may be misleading!

Pete_Cavan · 04-08-2020 8:25am

Why all this focus on tourism? I see greenways first and foremost as a facility for locals serving both a recreational amenity and a transport option. There is obviously a tourist element to them but that isn't exclusively from Americans in search of Paddywackery. There is a significant domestic tourism market of people who want to get enjoy a leisurely cycle and out into nature for anything from a few hours to several days. There are plenty of people who want to cycle multiple different greenways and are not just focused on tourist areas. As cycling culture develops in this country, there will be more and more people looking for different stretches of greenway to cycle, even if only for a day or two.

A greenway along the northern part of the WRC has the potential to form a nice loop. You could have a Galway/Mayo cycle loop comprising of the eastern section of Dublin - Galway route, the Connemara Greenway with connection to Westport, Westport - Castlebar is being looked at while Castlebar - Turlough is open, then a link from Turlough to WRC is needed and WRC brings you back to Athenry. They could market Tour de Galway/Mayo as a bucket list type thing and going through multiple types of scenery would only be a benefit. I could see Athenry being a popular starting point because you could hop off the train there and then get back on a train on your return. It is conveniently accessed from motorways too so a secure carpark could attract people to drive then cycle.

ShaneC1600 · 04-08-2020 8:56am

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Why all this focus on tourism? I see greenways first and foremost as a facility for locals serving both a recreational amenity and a transport option. There is obviously a tourist element to them but that isn't exclusively from Americans in search of Paddywackery. There is a significant domestic tourism market of people who want to get enjoy a leisurely cycle and out into nature for anything from a few hours to several days. There are plenty of people who want to cycle multiple different greenways and are not just focused on tourist areas. As cycling culture develops in this country, there will be more and more people looking for different stretches of greenway to cycle, even if only for a day or two.

Fair enough but spending over 10 million on a greenway for the locals is some spend considering the same activists say there isn’t the population for an actual transport option. The promises of a tourist bonanza for the towns may well not come to fruition! Especially considering lots of GAA clubs have already provided safe and secure walkways around their grounds, meaning the spend is more for local cyclists!

Grassey · 04-08-2020 9:12am

Because walking in a circle around some pitches is as enjoyable as going A to B in the countryside...

I saw yesterday that Sallins has gotten a grant of €25K to develop a cafe for walkers/cyclists along the greenway passing through the village. There are huge numbers of families that walk the current towpath along the canal there, yet, nobody does laps of the GAA grounds in the centre of the village.

Pete_Cavan · 04-08-2020 9:20am

ShaneC1600 wrote: »

Fair enough but spending over 10 million on a greenway for the locals is some spend considering the same activists say there isn’t the population for an actual transport option. The promises of a tourist bonanza for the towns may well not come to fruition! Especially considering lots of GAA clubs have already provided safe and secure walkways around their grounds, meaning the spend is more for local cyclists!

If €10m on a greenway is some spend, what is over 10 times that on a railway? I don't think anyone is claiming there would be a "tourist bonanza", rather there will be moderate tourism benefits but will be greater than either just leaving the line to rot or having a couple of trains a day proving a very slow service. A track around a GAA pitch is in no way comparable to a greenway.

westtip · 04-08-2020 10:16am

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

. Not that I think this will happen.

Yep that last sentence PC sums up a lot of the wishful thinking on this thread from both sides of the camp!

ShaneC1600 · 04-08-2020 11:34am

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

If €10m on a greenway is some spend, what is over 10 times that on a railway? I don't think anyone is claiming there would be a "tourist bonanza", rather there will be moderate tourism benefits but will be greater than either just leaving the line to rot or having a couple of trains a day proving a very slow service. A track around a GAA pitch is in no way comparable to a greenway.

A protected route away from cars and trucks is what will attract users one poster stated so a path around GAA grounds fits that bill for walkers and in truth, in my own GAA ground, this simple attraction does indeed bring locals to walk the route, it becomes very busy during juvenile training.

You say “moderate tourist attraction”, I have seen on a greenway Facebook page other descriptions on how big a game changer this will be. I think moderate is a fair prediction in fairness.

Pete_Cavan · 04-08-2020 12:50pm

ShaneC1600 wrote: »

A protected route away from cars and trucks is what will attract users one poster stated so a path around GAA grounds fits that bill for walkers and in truth, in my own GAA ground, this simple attraction does indeed bring locals to walk the route, it becomes very busy during juvenile training.

You say “moderate tourist attraction”, I have seen on a greenway Facebook page other descriptions on how big a game changer this will be. I think moderate is a fair prediction in fairness.

I'm sure the poster you are referring to also mentioned or implied distance being a factor (and no, constantly going round the same few hundred metres isn't sufficient) in what attracts users. It is well proven that greenways attract more people and from further away than a simple path around GAA pitches. I'm sure you well know this and are just twisting words. Paths around GAA pitches are great, my club runs popular walking/jogging sessions which attracts people of all levels of fitness and some parents use it to get some exercise in while their child is training, but it is a completely different kettle of fish to a greenway.

Even a moderate tourist attraction could have an impact in some of the towns around the route. Bringing more people there regularly, while not doing anything to put off people who might visit anyway.

ShaneC1600 · 04-08-2020 3:15pm

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

I'm sure the poster you are referring to also mentioned or implied distance being a factor (and no, constantly going round the same few hundred metres isn't sufficient) in what attracts users. It is well proven that greenways attract more people and from further away than a simple path around GAA pitches. I'm sure you well know this and are just twisting words. Paths around GAA pitches are great, my club runs popular walking/jogging sessions which attracts people of all levels of fitness and some parents use it to get some exercise in while their child is training, but it is a completely different kettle of fish to a greenway.

Even a moderate tourist attraction could have an impact in some of the towns around the route. Bringing more people there regularly, while not doing anything to put off people who might visit anyway.

I am not playing with words, I am saying it how it is. I know what a greenway offers, I did not imply a track around a pitch is in some way comparable to a greenway, I only stated it offers what the other poster wanted from a greenway (Safe and secure).
But now that you mention it, 5 or 6 laps of the local GAA ground (some of these offerings are quite substantial) for a 5k run/walk vs a drive to the greenway to run/walk 2.5k and back? Fairly similar really when you think about it considering the recommended walking time per day is 30 min. "Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the Surgeon General's recommendation to log at least 30 minutes of moderate activity most days of the week".
If the greenway is not directed at tourists with only moderate tourist uptake and local offerings have safe and secure walkways along the route that you might have to go around 4 or 5 times its a hell of a lot of money (€10,000,000 +) for a few cyclists and longer distance runners imo?
Funny thing is I will use it when/if it is built for both leisure with the family and training as I can get to it nearly as quick as getting to the local GAA walkway

04-08-2020 3:25pm

ShaneC1600 wrote: »

its a hell of a lot of money (€10,000,000 +) for a few cyclists and longer distance runners imo?

Thankfully, the same opinion is not held by councils or govt dept's who recognise that greenways have a very quick payback period with returns through VAT on increased purchases in areas they are located in addition to increased PAYE, PRSI & USC from the increased employment they bring into rural communities.

ShaneC1600 wrote: »

Funny thing is I will use it when/if it is built for both leisure with the family and training as I can get to it nearly as quick as getting to the local GAA walkway

I'll see you there

Pete_Cavan · 04-08-2020 3:45pm

ShaneC1600 wrote: »

I am not playing with words, I am saying it how it is. I know what a greenway offers, I did not imply a track around a pitch is in some way comparable to a greenway, I only stated it offers what the other poster wanted from a greenway (Safe and secure).
But now that you mention it, 5 or 6 laps of the local GAA ground (some of these offerings are quite substantial) for a 5k run/walk vs a drive to the greenway to run/walk 2.5k and back? Fairly similar really when you think about it considering the recommended walking time per day is 30 min. "Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the Surgeon General's recommendation to log at least 30 minutes of moderate activity most days of the week".
If the greenway is not directed at tourists with only moderate tourist uptake and local offerings have safe and secure walkways along the route that you might have to go around 4 or 5 times its a hell of a lot of money (€10,000,000 +) for a few cyclists and longer distance runners imo?
Funny thing is I will use it when/if it is built for both leisure with the family and training as I can get to it nearly as quick as getting to the local GAA walkway

Any tourism resulting from a greenway if opened would be an economic gain over and above the zero economic gain from the disused rail line. Greenways are only comparable to a path around GAA pitch on a basic level. Greenways attract more people and from further away than a simple path around GAA pitches. I am not sure why you are so focused on what one poster said they wanted from a greenway, perhaps you could quote this post you are referring to?

And I don't know what you consider to be tourism but someone in Ireland, travelling to the greenway, using it and spending money (could be on food/drink/accommodation/whatever) is tourism and a gain to the local economy. This is a substantial amount of the tourism which has made other greenways here a success. There is an appetite here for more greenways and I have no doubt that there are plenty of people who would use a greenway from Athenry north if it was offered.

If you are scoffing at €10m for a greenway when a few laps of a GAA pitch will do, I can only assume you don't support over €100m to reinstate the train service when a bus service will do?

Pete_Cavan · 04-08-2020 3:46pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Thankfully, the same opinion is not held by councils or govt dept's who recognise that greenways have a very quick payback period with returns through VAT on increased purchases in areas they are located in addition to increased PAYE, PRSI & USC from the increased employment they bring into rural communities.

Not to mention the health benefits as well.

ShaneC1600 · 06-08-2020 9:09am

A great article gone to print by a greenway supporter today. Calling railway supporters desperate, criminal even for believing reintroduction of a rail service along the WRC could be beneficial to the area.
The derogatory rear guard action comment is not unusual or surprising for this greenway supporter but one that furthers the division between the two sides.
He fails to mention that the opening of the section between Athenry and Ennis happened during the economic crisis and has improved year on year but again not surprising. He fails to mention that all railway lines went through a period of declining usership in that period.
He leads the reader to believe that the greenway will keep educated people in the area. He states that funding has been provided to begin the greenway between Athenry and Ennis, i guess the railway supporters could equally say the railway is underway if money into a report is considered the beginning.
Great article tho ðŸ‘

River Suir · 06-08-2020 9:50am

ShaneC1600 wrote: »

A great article gone to print by a greenway supporter today. Calling railway supporters desperate, criminal even for believing reintroduction of a rail service along the WRC could be beneficial to the area.
The derogatory rear guard action comment is not unusual or surprising for this greenway supporter but one that furthers the division between the two sides.
He fails to mention that the opening of the section between Athenry and Ennis happened during the economic crisis and has improved year on year but again not surprising. He fails to mention that all railway lines went through a period of declining usership in that period.
He leads the reader to believe that the greenway will keep educated people in the area. He states that funding has been provided to begin the greenway between Athenry and Ennis, i guess the railway supporters could equally say the railway is underway if money into a report is considered the beginning.
Great article tho ðŸ‘

You have to remember though that the many derogatory and divisive comments in print and online written by that man and his campaign partner led many people - including myself - to become pro rail activists. It's thanks to those two that over the last few years has seen a strong and very effective pro better transport lobby emerge, one that meets regularly with TDs and ministers to push the rail message.

These guys in their attempt to be the Burke and Hare of Irish railways have paradoxically radicalised many former armchair commentators into being full blown activists. All-Ireland railway expansion is now firmly on the agenda.

TCDStudent1 · 06-08-2020 11:12am

ShaneC1600 wrote: »

A great article gone to print by a greenway supporter today. Calling railway supporters desperate, criminal even for believing reintroduction of a rail service along the WRC could be beneficial to the area.
The derogatory rear guard action comment is not unusual or surprising for this greenway supporter but one that furthers the division between the two sides.
He fails to mention that the opening of the section between Athenry and Ennis happened during the economic crisis and has improved year on year but again not surprising. He fails to mention that all railway lines went through a period of declining usership in that period.
He leads the reader to believe that the greenway will keep educated people in the area. He states that funding has been provided to begin the greenway between Athenry and Ennis, i guess the railway supporters could equally say the railway is underway if money into a report is considered the beginning.
Great article tho ðŸ‘

Where can I read that?

ezstreet5 · 06-08-2020 11:46am

It's the same old small-town mindset. If you don't agree with me, you are one of a small group of fools. I can't tolerate your opinion, so you will eventually have to change it. And again, "greenway tourism" is the panacea that will pull rural Ireland out of its morass.

westtip · 06-08-2020 12:19pm

River Suir wrote: »

You have to remember though that the many derogatory and divisive comments in print and online written by that man and his campaign partner led many people - including myself - to become pro rail activists. It's thanks to those two that over the last few years has seen a strong and very effective pro better transport lobby emerge, one that meets regularly with TDs and ministers to push the rail message.

These guys in their attempt to be the Burke and Hare of Irish railways have paradoxically radicalised many former armchair commentators into being full blown activists. All-Ireland railway expansion is now firmly on the agenda.

Hilarious, love it. "The Burke and Hare of Irish Railways" It just gets funnier by the day. If these two hadn't spoken up there would be no Sligo Greenway Co-op with local people achieving what they have in Sligo, No Kiltimagh Greenway Group advocating the greenway in Mayo and No QMG group (no in fact they came out on their own accord without Burk and Hare), There would have been no 25,000 names on a petition and no grants for the latest projects for Greenways on the closed for 40 year rail routes. Do you really think these two characters did this all by themselves. Of course they did wake up West on Track but that was bound to happen after all remember Gerry "not up for discussion" Murray saying the railway was not on the agenda and was not up for discussion.

Hilarious, keep taking the pills, Great article Mr Burke.

Muckyboots · 06-08-2020 12:49pm

This?
https://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/116166/quiet-man-greenway-receives-funding-for-feasibility-study?fbclid=IwAR258SjAwpc8pvKpBO6PaQNL9pvlGsglcuOKLpogBU7ok1lS03-BcXVftE8

06-08-2020 1:19pm

Or this?

or maybe this one

or possibly this

but probably this

06-08-2020 1:38pm

Muckyboots wrote: »

This?
https://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/116166/quiet-man-greenway-receives-funding-for-feasibility-study?fbclid=IwAR258SjAwpc8pvKpBO6PaQNL9pvlGsglcuOKLpogBU7ok1lS03-BcXVftE8

You have to laugh at the cheek of the Loughrea & Ballinasloe Councillors telling lies in order to try block the greenway for the Athenry-0Oranmore & Tuam districts.

Fine Gael councillor Jimmy McClearn said while everyone supports the concept of a greenway, it was precluded by the Regional Spatial Strategy from being constructed on the railway line.

No its not

"The greenway can go anywhere but not on the railway and it is time we have to face up to it."

Actually no, thats what the feasibility study will decide.

"The greenway can go anywhere but not on the railway and it is time we have to face up to it.That is the law."

No such law exists

Ballinasloe councillor Michael Connolly concurred with Cllr McClearn's sentiments saying it was important that Galway was a place people can live and work and not a location where people go on their holidays.

Ya wha??

"I am the chair of inter county rail committee [and the railway line] is a vital part of development of Atlantic in rail corridor. It is important we don't turn Galway into a park for those from Dublin and around the world. People have to be able to live and work here."

Its pretty obvious this lad has done his research

westtip · 06-08-2020 2:13pm

Da Cor, it gets more and more bizarre what law is the cllr quoting, I note for example on the West on Track FB page the one thing they do not mention is the entire dependence on the future of the WRC being entirely dependent on the Rail Review, which is effectively what Regional Planning Guideline 6.11 states. Of course none of us know yet what this report says but after being asked god knows how many times on GalwaybayFM last week Cllr Connolly was asked will he accept the reports findings he just kept saying I am confident it will support the western rail corridor, Look none of us have seen it yet, we have asked for it endlessly but these lies being put out about some law saying the railway cannot be a greenway is just clutching at straws by the old guard. And they are lies, no such law exists and the Regional Strategies do not state the railway cannot be used as a greenway in any part of the RSES document.

Muckyboots · 06-08-2020 3:21pm

Interpret to your hearts content. My reading is that the Minister can step in and overrule RPGs at his, or her, will. Not sure which "Minister" though.
https://www.housing.gov.ie/sites/default/files/migrated-files/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/Planning/FileDownLoad,1605,en.pdf

Lord Glentoran · 06-08-2020 5:20pm

Meanwhile, on the Other Island, no greenway here but a serious proposal to reopen a low density line to passenger traffic after fifty years... https://www.facebook.com/153132638110668/posts/3207874485969786/?vh=e

06-08-2020 5:57pm

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

Meanwhile, on the Other Island, no greenway here but a serious proposal to reopen a low density line to passenger traffic after fifty years... https://www.facebook.com/153132638110668/posts/3207874485969786/?vh=e

What is your definition of low density in this case?

The line is in the New Forest District of Hampshire. 240/km2 in the district, so about five times denser than Galway. Hampshire itself has a population of about 1.8 million in an area about the same as Clare.

Despite still having military traffic and industrial traffic until recently it will cost £45,000,000 for 10km.

westtip · 06-08-2020 7:38pm

Deleted User wrote: »

What is your definition of low density in this case?

The line is in the New Forest District of Hampshire. 240/km2 in the district, so about five times denser than Galway. Hampshire itself has a population of about 1.8 million in an area about the same as Clare.

Despite still having military traffic and industrial traffic until recently it will cost £45,000,000 for 10km.

Yep and no bridges to replace.

Lord Glentoran · 07-08-2020 12:43am

westtip wrote: »

Yep and no bridges to replace.

Oh noes... what an impossibly expensive thing to replace (seemingly) :rolleyes:

westtip · 07-08-2020 3:24pm

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

Oh noes... what an impossibly expensive thing to replace (seemingly) :rolleyes:

seemingly!? all other things considered can I spell out the name of the country we live in Ireland!

westtip · 08-08-2020 1:25am

Burke and Hare (this time Hare) at it again

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qpjv2m7gcq2sgx4/B-Quinn%20interview_MWR_07-08-20.mp4?dl=0&fbclid=IwAR3Hck7yMrWD2pBLSzDf0b73CcQWMqfrVwEkryby_7qba3Gigk4M-Qgf5I0

Greaney · 12-08-2020 5:12pm

I've just come back from the Raheen Woods Hotel. The impressions I got were...

1) They are interested in only discussing establishing a route between Athlone & Galway,
2) They are interested in using State owned land, so they want the state to 'own' the greenway. That's a higher spec than the eurovelo on mainland Europe. They want to meet landowners who are keen/interested in the project
3) They are not interested in using Rail infrastructure. CIE own that. If it crosses or comes near existing infra, all good and well
4) They do however, seem to be talking to Board-na-mona regarding using tracks on bogs

The purpose for them is to link Routes 1 & 2 of the eurovelo

Edit; I forgot to add, and this is very interesting, I was talking to one of the head engineers. It happens they have 'clickers' counting numbers in the towns etc. along different greenways to gauge success. He said he's walked most of the Greenways in Ireland (his wife doesn't cycle). The Waterford & Westport green ways are off the charts busy, however, the others are not. On one (was it Moate??) he said they saw..... not one bike on their entire walk. He implied that many believe every green way is a goldmine,.. (the rumor of it will make green ways more appealing to some, and that's not a bad thing)

.

I've been in tourism groups etc and I've seen many businesses lack 'cop on', fail to take advantage of an opportunity and expect everything on a plate.
Personally, I believe the green way will be as successful as the communities they go through make them.

Losty Dublin · 12-08-2020 7:42pm

westtip wrote: »

Burke and Hare (this time Hare) at it again

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qpjv2m7gcq2sgx4/B-Quinn%20interview_MWR_07-08-20.mp4?dl=0&fbclid=IwAR3Hck7yMrWD2pBLSzDf0b73CcQWMqfrVwEkryby_7qba3Gigk4M-Qgf5I0

For some reason it sounds as if chunks of audio have been clumsily edited out of the interview. Are Midwest Radio that unprofessional or has the file been snipped in places by whomever it is that posted it?

blackwhite · 12-08-2020 10:49pm

Losty Dublin wrote: »

For some reason it sounds as if chunks of audio have been clumsily edited out of the interview. Are Midwest Radio that unprofessional or has the file been snipped in places by whomever it is that posted it?

Without having listened to the clip, I can definitively say that yes, yes they are that unprofessional.

A friend’s teenager did work experience with them a few years ago. The level of responsibility delegated to a transition year work experience student (on a two week placement!) was shocking.

TCDStudent1 · 12-08-2020 10:53pm

blackwhite wrote: »

Without having listened to the clip, I can definitively say that yes, yes they are that unprofessional.

A friend’s teenager did work experience with them a few years ago. The level of responsibility delegated to a transition year work experience student (on a two week placement!) was shocking.

Sounds like a great work placement. Better than sitting in the corner doing nothing!

Western Rail Corridor / Rail Trail Discussion

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