Rugby 101 - Know your rucks from your mauls!

MJohnston · 16-09-2015 7:07am #1

MOD: Massive thanks to MJohnston for doing up this [click to view] Rugby 101 cheat sheet. During the RWC we'll undoubtably get an influx of new posters into our community. If you're unsure of what a ruck is, or a line out, or where the offside line is, then this is the thread to ask!

It's fair to say we're all buzzing for Friday's kickoff, but I figure (and hope) this RWC is going to bring a few people onboard to watching rugby who've never seen it before. As I've been basically stuck with nothing to do in a hotel room this week (steady on), and am fairly handy with the oul Photoshop I decided to make a sort of printable poster to provide a newbie guide to the game.

So I'm looking for people here to point out what I've gotten wrong, and whether there's anything major I've left off - I know there's lots of parts of the rules that I'm not covering, but I think I hit all the big points?

It's too big to embed, I reckon, but you can view it here

Hopefully this is useful!

sydthebeat · 16-09-2015 7:36am

Your description of "the gate" isn't technically correct.

16-09-2015 8:12am

MJohnston wrote: »

It's fair to say we're all buzzing for Friday's kickoff, but I figure (and hope) this RWC is going to bring a few people onboard to watching rugby who've never seen it before. As I've been basically stuck with nothing to do in a hotel room this week (steady on), and am fairly handy with the oul Photoshop I decided to make a sort of printable poster to provide a newbie guide to the game.

So I'm looking for people here to point out what I've gotten wrong, and whether there's anything major I've left off - I know there's lots of parts of the rules that I'm not covering, but I think I hit all the big points?

It's too big to embed, I reckon, but you can view it here

Hopefully this is useful!

Amazing effort - well done!

errlloyd · 16-09-2015 8:33am

I love the design, I did a lot of that sort of stuff in college and it looks crisp. Just wonder if you could do more with the backdrop, perhaps a faded out stadium (Twickenham) or some photos of players. (maybe using some effects or filters to cartoonise them so they match the colour scheme)

tommy100 · 16-09-2015 8:39am

Haven't read it all yet, looks pretty good, there is so much rules u could keep branching off what u have said already.
-in relation to the ball going over dead ball line, it can also be restarted by a scrum 5 if defenders put it out, also u decribed in detail about ball going between post, most people would get that but they might not understand some of your/rugby lingo (ball goes dead, dead ball line). Maybe have u should have an index of all main lingo, sorry but im trying to think like a non rugby virgin

Losty Dublin · 16-09-2015 8:52am

tommy100 wrote: »

Haven't read it all yet, looks pretty good, there is so much rules u could keep branching off what u have said already.

Laws.

Rugby has laws. Laws and not rules.

Laws.

;-)

Seriously though, it's a good idea. Something that jumped out at me is in relation to a ruck and a maul and that it's worthy to mention the two critical differences between them. Namely a ruck needs the ball to be on the ground and it involves a minimum of one player from each team to be bound whereas a maul involves three players bound and for the ball to be in and hand and off the ground. It can be as simple as ruck=ground and maul=held ball; bear in mind that you don't need a tackle to ruck and there isn't a (successful) tackle for a maul to be formed.

tommy100 · 16-09-2015 9:00am

Other lingo, set piece, touch.. also i see in your pitch drawing, the dead ball line, they might know that this also includes corner flag to very corner of the pitch. Man, you could keep branching and picking at things, what u have written and diplayed id very good, i wouldn't have done better myself, maybe index of all rugby and spectator lingo, and maybe current world rankings annd facts.

Mr Tickle · 16-09-2015 9:10am

Nice Job. Do you mind if others commandeer this for personal use?

also it might be worth mentioning the bench/ how many subs you can make. Even the blood sub rule etc. this might be more detail than they need to enjoy the games though.

accidentprone1 · 16-09-2015 9:55am

It's a really great piece of work. Well done!

May I nit-pick?

On the section on Mauls: One sentence that stuck out as little poorly phrased was "The team with the ball must drive forward, otherwise the referee will tell them that they must use the ball, and they cannot deliberately collapse their own maul."
It sounds a little like the ref would tell them that they cannot collapse the maul. Perhaps starting a new sentence would be clearer? i.e., "...they must use the ball. They cannot deliberately...
I'd also consider making the text in the diagram of the pitch a little larger—I zoomed into 100% size, and it's still quite small, even up close.
Found a small typo in the Penalties section: "When the referee chooses to award a penalty, they will indicate towards the team that 'won' the penalty."
Can I also suggest adding "with a raised arm" to the end of this?

Akrasia · 16-09-2015 1:19pm

I think it's really good. One useful addition would be something to do with the TMO and what usually causes a try to be disallowed, as these are usually the most tense and important moments in a game

The ball must be grounded with downward pressure, if it touches anywhere on the line, this counts as a try, if the player has any part of his body in touch, the deadball line, what happens if a ball is held up, the fact that the conversion is taken in line with where the ball was grounded...

MJohnston · 16-09-2015 3:12pm

Thanks all, I'm making some changes thanks to your advice. I've got this wording for the gate now: "is a line at the rear of the ruck facing their own goal line."

I'm also working on a mobile friendly version! And yes, please feel free to share it with whoever you'd like

Edit: Also, I don't intend for it to be an exhaustive tutorial for rugby laws, just enough to get someone who wants to watch with a bit of insight to feel comfortable doing so. There's far too many nuances and laws to fully cover, I reckon!

El Weirdo · 16-09-2015 3:28pm

Looks brilliant, but...

*Noob's

Ol' Donie · 16-09-2015 3:33pm

Ha, I think this is great.

Nice one.

.ak · 16-09-2015 4:16pm

I like it. Infact I think stick'ing this thread during the RWC isn't a bad idea....

captbarnacles · 16-09-2015 4:45pm

It's brilliant. A newspaper should do a pullout of that for the WC.

Can I ask a laws question here? re: scrum rotating 90. Seems rare now the dominant scrum gets possession. Most decisions seem to be eithe penalty for deliberate wheeling or runninng around in the scrum.

Stheno · 16-09-2015 4:47pm

That's great my oh is just starting to learn the terminology and this will be a great guide for him

MJohnston · 16-09-2015 4:51pm

captbarnacles wrote: »

It's brilliant. A newspaper should do a pullout of that for the WC.

Can I ask a laws question here? re: scrum rotating 90. Seems rare now the dominant scrum gets possession. Most decisions seem to be eithe penalty for deliberate wheeling or runninng around in the scrum.

Yeah, I wanted to add a line about that, but settled for using "should" instead

pickarooney · 16-09-2015 9:26pm

MJohnston wrote: »

Thanks all, I'm making some changes thanks to your advice. I've got this wording for the gate now: "is a line at the rear of the ruck facing their own goal line."
!

It still doesn't make sense to me. A line facing one other line? Across the width of the pitch or parallel to the goal lines maybe?

.ak · 17-09-2015 12:00am

MJohnston wrote: »

Thanks all, I'm making some changes thanks to your advice. I've got this wording for the gate now: "is a line at the rear of the ruck facing their own goal line."

I'm also working on a mobile friendly version! And yes, please feel free to share it with whoever you'd like

Edit: Also, I don't intend for it to be an exhaustive tutorial for rugby laws, just enough to get someone who wants to watch with a bit of insight to feel comfortable doing so. There's far too many nuances and laws to fully cover, I reckon!

Generally the gate is the tackled player, however most refs interpret a line running parallel to the goal line and about a meter wide.

Losty Dublin · 17-09-2015 12:16am

captbarnacles wrote: »

Can I ask a laws question here? re: scrum rotating 90. Seems rare now the dominant scrum gets possession. Most decisions seem to be eithe penalty for deliberate wheeling or runninng around in the scrum.

A scrum can't be deliberately wheeled and is a penalty offence. Players in a scrum must not drive or push or move it at an angle; again it's a pension offence. The natural wheel tends to be more gradual and natural in its nature; a deliberate one is easy spotted and easily managed on the day.

sydthebeat · 17-09-2015 7:09am

Losty Dublin wrote: »

A scrum can't be deliberately wheeled and is a penalty offence. Players in a scrum must not drive or push or move it at an angle; again it's a pension offence. The natural wheel tends to be more gradual and natural in its nature; a deliberate one is easy spotted and easily managed on the day.

Not to drag this off topic, but i was at a j1 game last weekend where both teams loose heads were mincing their opponents, and thus practically every scrum wheeled. The amount of scrum turnovers was ridiculous.
What would you do in that situation?

MJohnston · 17-09-2015 8:51am

Thanks for all the tips everyone - I've updated it big time now, instead of using images it's all HTML, mobile friendly, tablet friendly, desktop friendly, plus there's the original printable version if you want that!

Hope people find it useful

sydthebeat · 17-09-2015 9:23am

That is fantastic!

.ak · 17-09-2015 9:34am

Thanks MJ, I've stickied the thread. If anyone wants to ask questions about the game, then here's the place to do it. No question is stupid!

17-09-2015 10:59am

.ak wrote: »

Thanks MJ, I've stickied the thread. If anyone wants to ask questions about the game, then here's the place to do it. No question is stupid!

Would you rather fight 40 duck sized .ak's or 1 horse sized .ak?

The Lost Sheep · 17-09-2015 10:59am

I could have stuck this in the laws discussion thread but its better here

Wales Online have a four and a half minute video of Nigel Owens explaining the different signals a referee will use in the game.
Didn't get to hear the audio as he explains each but should be pretty good for people unsure of what exactly a referee is signalling
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/rugby-world-cup-2015-what-10030082#ICID=sharebar_twitter

.ak · 17-09-2015 11:33am

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

I could have stuck this in the laws discussion thread but its better here

Wales Online have a four and a half minute video of Nigel Owens explaining the different signals a referee will use in the game.
Didn't get to hear the audio as he explains each but should be pretty good for people unsure of what exactly a referee is signalling
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/rugby-world-cup-2015-what-10030082#ICID=sharebar_twitter

No harm in posting in both.

I think the Laws thread is more for indepth discussion on the details of the laws, this thread is for people new to the game that want to understand the basics.

Losty Dublin · 17-09-2015 12:55pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

Not to drag this off topic, but i was at a j1 game last weekend where both teams loose heads were mincing their opponents, and thus practically every scrum wheeled. The amount of scrum turnovers was ridiculous.
What would you do in that situation?

Without seeing what was going on the onus is on the front rows to bind their arms as per law and to drive straight. When you see a prop who's arms are flapping or their hips are moving then you know that there are problems; when second rows are crawling through the drive then Lord help us all.

If the wheel is consistent then talk to both front rows as it's ultimately their gig to keep things stable and to not make you piss on their parades. Occasionally you'll have lads who aren't as strong in the position and players can take the mick; at J1 level this really shouldn't be an issue. If needs be, penalty and card sanctions (and unopposed scrums.) may be imposed but man management should sort out the worst of it.

17-09-2015 5:10pm

Perhaps add something around Jackeling the ball before a ruck is formed? Its the most common way for a defensive team to gain an advantage through a penalty or turn over

mogwai81 · 17-09-2015 7:20pm

Whenever i'm watching rugby people always seem to be complaining about the defending team been offside in open play. What situation would cause this to be true?

Pudsy33 · 17-09-2015 7:29pm

mogwai81 wrote: »

Whenever i'm watching rugby people always seem to be complaining about the defending team been offside in open play. What situation would cause this to be true?

Before the ball leave the ruck, the defense has be lined up behind an imaginary line which extents horizontally for the hind most foot in the ruck. I think...

.ak · 17-09-2015 7:31pm

mogwai81 wrote: »

Whenever i'm watching rugby people always seem to be complaining about the defending team been offside in open play. What situation would cause this to be true?

When a ruck is formed the defensive offside like is set by the hindmost foot of the last defender.

To make it simple, if one defender successfully makes a tackle and one defender joins the ensuing ruck then the rucking player's foot is the offside point. An imaginary line is drawn across the pitch, parallel with the goal lines.

The defending players must stay behind that line until the ball is out.*

When the players encroach over that line before the ball is passed from the ruck they're offside, and thus gaining an unfair advantage by closing down the space early. A lot of teams may push this law and will try to pull a fast one by getting offside when the ref isn't looking!

*Some refs have their own opinion on what ball out means... And they'll usually outline their interpretation prior to kick off. One ref once described to me he wants to see the scrum half lifting their head up out of the ruck to consider it out. By difinition of the law however it's once the ball is lifted off the deck by the scrum half.

rrpc · 17-09-2015 10:07pm

.ak wrote: »

*Some refs have their own opinion on what ball out means... And they'll usually outline their interpretation prior to kick off. One ref once described to me he wants to see the scrum half lifting their head up out of the ruck to consider it out. By difinition of the law however it's once the ball is lifted off the deck by the scrum half.

Another description of the ball out I've heard is when a pigeon flying overhead can sh1t on it.

You often see opposition players going for the ball when it is exposed like that without sanction.

The laws don't actually define it.

sydthebeat · 17-09-2015 10:09pm

rrpc · 17-09-2015 10:12pm

Akrasia wrote: »

The ball must be grounded with downward pressure, if it touches anywhere on the line, this counts as a try, if the player has any part of his body in touch, the deadball line, what happens if a ball is held up, the fact that the conversion is taken in line with where the ball was grounded...

Downward pressure is only required when the ball is loose in goal (say after a kick through or a fumble by a defending player). At all other times it just needs to be touched down while held by the player.

You often hear commentators using the phrase completely incorrectly.

mogwai81 · 18-09-2015 6:31am

sydthebeat wrote: »

Thanks for all the explanations, Video was very helpful.

pickarooney · 18-09-2015 7:00am

rrpc wrote: »

Downward pressure is only required when the ball is loose in goal (say after a kick through or a fumble by a defending player). At all other times it just needs to be touched down while held by the player.

You often hear commentators using the phrase completely incorrectly.

How would there not be downward pressure in that case? Even sliding over the line with the ball you're exerting a minimum of downforce.

mhtc · 18-09-2015 9:02am

Excellent explanation of the laws around the ruck here...

Hermy · 18-09-2015 9:24am

Been watching rugby on TV for years but there's lots I don't understand about it.
This sort of thread is great for giving us perpetual novices a better understanding of what's going on.
Thanks.

rrpc · 18-09-2015 9:29am

pickarooney wrote: »

How would there not be downward pressure in that case? Even sliding over the line with the ball you're exerting a minimum of downforce.

Downward pressure or downward movement?

Pressure implies resistance. The try scored with ball in hand is only required to touch the line or in goal area. So you can just brush the ball off the grass and score a try.

There are two ways a player can ground the ball:
(a)Player touches the ground with the ball. A player grounds the ball by holding the ball and touching the ground with it, in in-goal. ‘Holding’ means holding in the hand or hands, or in the arm or arms. No downward pressure is required.

(b)Player presses down on the ball. A player grounds the ball when it is on the ground in the in-goal and the player presses down on it with a hand or hands, arm or arms, or the front of the player’s body from waist to neck inclusive.

crisco10 · 19-09-2015 8:56am

rrpc wrote: »

(b)Player presses down on the ball. A player grounds the ball when it is on the ground in the in-goal and the player presses down on it with a hand or hands, arm or arms, or the front of the player’s body from waist to neck inclusive.

Been playing years and didn't realise you could score with your torso. I.e. not your arms.

rrpc · 19-09-2015 11:18am

crisco10 wrote: »

Been playing years and didn't realise you could score with your torso. I.e. not your arms.

Only when it's loose in goal though. But yes. Most guys seem to attempt it with their hands so I suspect you're not the only one.

Darkglasses · 19-09-2015 3:28pm

How many sub's can you bring on in the RWC?

Losty Dublin · 19-09-2015 3:31pm

Darkglasses wrote: »

How many sub's can you bring on in the RWC?

All 8 subs are allowed to be called on.

Stheno · 19-09-2015 3:34pm

POC in the bin:eek:

degsie · 19-09-2015 4:28pm

Stheno wrote: »

POC in the bin:eek:

Wrong thread?

Stheno · 19-09-2015 9:15pm

degsie wrote: »

Wrong thread?

Yeah lol it was the shock!

Anyways lads I've a question. The OH today absolved himself of his lack of interest last night, and paid enough attention that he had a question I couldn't answer.

He was trying to figure out how conversions get taken.
So I was able to say that the conversion is taken parallel to where the ball is grounded, but then he wanted to know why conversions for tries that go in between the posts are taken about five metres out, but ones for tries in a corner seem to be taken much further back at the edge of the 22.

Am I right in thinking that it's due to the fact you'd not convert from the corner five metres out?

Sorry if it's a stupid question.

sydthebeat · 19-09-2015 9:24pm

Stheno wrote: »

Yeah lol it was the shock!

Anyways lads I've a question. The OH today absolved himself of his lack of interest last night, and paid enough attention that he had a question I couldn't answer.

He was trying to figure out how conversions get taken.
So I was able to say that the conversion is taken parallel to where the ball is grounded, but then he wanted to know why conversions for tries that go in between the posts are taken about five metres out, but ones for tries in a corner seem to be taken much further back at the edge of the 22.

Am I right in thinking that it's due to the fact you'd not convert from the corner five metres out?

Sorry if it's a stupid question.

the further out you are, when your close to the side line, the better your angle

Stheno · 19-09-2015 9:26pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

the further out you are, when your close to the side line, the better your angle

Thanks

Can the kicker choose how far back they go? I.e. are there any set rules about it? That was the OHs real question

Losty Dublin · 19-09-2015 9:32pm

Stheno wrote: »

He was trying to figure out how conversions get taken.
So I was able to say that the conversion is taken parallel to where the ball is grounded, but then he wanted to know why conversions for tries that go in between the posts are taken about five metres out, but ones for tries in a corner seem to be taken much further back at the edge of the 22.

Am I right in thinking that it's due to the fact you'd not convert from the corner five metres out?

Sorry if it's a stupid question.

It isn't a stupid question at all.

A conversion holds it roots in the old day of rugby football. Back then the player who carried a ball to behind the goal line was them entitled to have "try" to kick a goal. If you scored your try was "converted" into a score. Where the ball crossed the line dictated where you placed the ball for your kick for goal. As the game evolved, both a try and a kick at goal became ways of scoring. However the conversion remained a score of it's own right, hence the phrase converted try.

On where to a kick can be taken, the ball may be parallel to where it was grounded or out towards the touch lines. It can be taken anywhere in the field of play as well. As a conversion can be charged down players sometimes bring the ball back a few yards to lessen the change of a block down if the mark is close to under the posts. For narrow angles, bringing it back gives a kicker a bit more angle to work with for a kick.

.ak · 19-09-2015 9:33pm

Stheno wrote: »

Thanks

Can the kicker choose how far back they go? I.e. are there any set rules about it? That was the OHs real question

Yeah the kicker chooses how far they can take it back.

Rugby 101 - Know your rucks from your mauls!

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