The case for NOT supporting local business

Dempo1 · 25-10-2020 11:32am

road_high wrote: »

(Some) Small local menswear shops really are the pits. I can just visualise the sun faded window display in a dreary midlands town selling check shirts and ill fitting wrangler jeans from 20 years ago style.
That being said there are some excellent ones like Galvins of Tullamore that keep up with the fashions and up to date stores and online

O God, I'm reminded of a men's wear shop in a Midlands town (no names) absolute chancer. Customer would arrive, needing shirts, owner would say I've the very thing, run out the back of the store, into Dunnes, get a few discounted shirts, run back over, remove packaging etc and mark up price x 2, he didn't only do this with shirts, trousers etc. He even got his hands on rental suits and sold them as new. Finally caught out when the wife queried hubby about one set of shirts, hubby purchased, she wondered why Dunnes Stores branded label on the inside, went to the dunnes stores to verify and check prices. I'd didn't witness what happened next but I believe there was an entertaining screaming match on the street outside menswear shop shortly afterwards. It was the talk of the town for weeks after with more disgruntled customers arriving. Shop thankfully now closed, Revenue were involved.

Vieira82 · 25-10-2020 11:37am

Augeo wrote: »

That's an extreme example.

Look at glenisk high protein Greek yoghurt.... Irish product..... €3rrp for 500g tub.

SuperValue high protein Greek yoghurt made by glenisk (small piece of detective work, glenisk not named on pack) ... 75% of protein..... 30% of the price.

Same manufacturer and they are in the same fridge in my local family owned SuperValu.

How is going for that cheap option not good?. The folk buying the irfu official yoghurt are subsidising my breakfast :pac:

you're talking about something completely different. That's a major youghurt company double/tripple/ probably quadruple dipping for profits.

It's actually very common for big companies to do this sell the same product to different brands at different prices to make more money.

It's the story of the rich shoe shop owner, that opens the same shop across the street with a different name. Makes a promotion on it when it opens with the stock he hasn't sold on the old shop across the street. Advertises as new business, gets new costumers and sells. It's marketing and money making strategies to maximize profits without any ethical concern at all...

Has absolutely nothing to do with all the examples of small single owned vey localized Irish Businesses vs big national/international brands

25-10-2020 12:13pm

Vieira82 wrote: »

you're talking about something completely different. That's a major youghurt company double/tripple/ probably quadruple dipping for profits.

It's actually very common for big companies to do this sell the same product to different brands at different prices to make more money.

It's the story of the rich shoe shop owner, that opens the same shop across the street with a different name. Makes a promotion on it when it opens with the stock he hasn't sold on the old shop across the street. Advertises as new business, gets new costumers and sells. It's marketing and money making strategies to maximize profits without any ethical concern at all...

Has absolutely nothing to do with all the examples of small single owned vey localized Irish Businesses vs big national/international brands

Youre waffling.... You said buying cheap is not good. That was a blanket statement & you used an example of a €45 wallet v a €1 wallet. A high end v a throwaway product.

As my example details, you can shop local & shop cheap and the cheap option is good.

25-10-2020 12:15pm

Vieira82 wrote: »

....

It's actually very common for big companies to do this sell the same product to different brands at different prices to make more money.

....

Oh wow I never knew this :rolleyes:

Your shoe shop story is another waffle nothing to do with anything.

25-10-2020 12:15pm

Vieira82 wrote: »

....

It's actually very common for big companies to do this sell the same product to different brands at different prices to make more money.

....

Oh wow I never knew this :rolleyes:

Your shoe shop story is another waffle nothing to do with anything.

MonkstownHoop · 25-10-2020 12:21pm

When a small Tesco opened nearby the Londis had a sign in the window saying use us or lose us, never any attempt to get customers with offers or community engagement, it's now a spar but generally people will use the Centra or Tesco because of the value they offer.

Wanderer78 · 25-10-2020 12:22pm

MonkstownHoop wrote: »

When a small Tesco opened nearby the Londis had a sign in the window saying use us or lose us, never any attempt to get customers with offers or community engagement, it's now a spar but generally people will use the Centra or Tesco because of the value they offer.

....again, how can smaller shops compete against such monopolies?

Tig98 · 25-10-2020 12:28pm

A friend was buying a laptop and priced Harvey Norman vs the locally owned equivalent. The local shop was legitimately 200e dearer and he said to the lady herself who owned it that he could get it much cheaper in Harvey Norman, she said that's the price you have to pay to support local.

Supporting local is well and good, but doing so shouldn't make a fool out of yourself either. I understand independent traders cant offer such competitive prices but they should make an extra push with the services they provide to draw and keep a customer base

shesty · 25-10-2020 12:33pm

Oddly I always find Harvey Norman to be expensive for electronics.DID offer better deals fairly consistently, in my experience.I shop Irish - online is not a problem, even if it is not always local - but I avoid Amazon where possible.If I have no success I will check for EU or UK online shops for a product, and then Amazon is my last port of call.

25-10-2020 12:36pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

....again, how can smaller shops compete against such monopolies?

Local londis is 200 yards from a Tesco & there's a centra in between them. The londis is thriving so it can be done.

Wanderer78 · 25-10-2020 12:42pm

Augeo wrote: »

Local londis is 200 yards from a Tesco & there's a centra in between them. The londis is thriving so it can be done.

it can be done of course,but it can also come at a cost, and labour tends to be who loses the most

jelem · 25-10-2020 12:52pm

Tig98 wrote: »

A friend was buying a laptop and priced Harvey Norman vs the locally owned equivalent. The local shop was legitimately 200e dearer and he said to the lady herself who owned it that he could get it much cheaper in Harvey Norman, she said that's the price you have to pay to support local.

Supporting local is well and good, but doing so shouldn't make a fool out of yourself either. I understand independent traders cant offer such competitive prices but they should make an extra push with the services they provide to draw and keep a customer base

You lack knowledge on computers, as even the large brand names
provide little support and hence the "local" shop cannot offer "service".
when it is a windows fault the unit does not work the "shop" cannot help.
with part failures it is faster if purchased from on-line such as mentioned "amazon"
to get "fast" results.
Not all on-line is good and having experience purchasing from china\usa\eu\russia etc.,
the worst experience was from an irish "on-line" Big Name.
rashers and milk Local all other larger items that can and do go wrong
should be "on-line" and "world market".
nothing as bad as being told have to wait" x weeks" for "irish shop" to get delivery from eu.
get cheaper including delivery and quicker by on-line purchase, local shop is just
reseller so obvious price hike.

25-10-2020 12:56pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

it can be done of course,but it can also come at a cost, and labour tends to be who loses the most

Yes, making a career out of working in local londis is less than wise.

Wanderer78 · 25-10-2020 12:58pm

Augeo wrote: »

Yes, making a career out of working in local londis is less than wise.

what if its your only choice?

3DataModem · 25-10-2020 1:00pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

You may in fact being undermining your own employment situation by doing so

I'm looking forward to my future amazon wear house job

None of the jobs in Ireland are warehouse jobs. All in technology, networking, etc.

Tig98 · 25-10-2020 1:02pm

Augeo wrote: »

Yes, making a career out of working in local londis is less than wise.

Different strokes, different folks.

Not everyone has the opportunity of formal education, and at the end of the day life is about fulfillment not your bank balance...

Wanderer78 · 25-10-2020 1:04pm

3DataModem wrote: »

None of the jobs in Ireland are warehouse jobs. All in technology, networking, etc.

patience, tis early days yet! would any amazon products, purchased by irish buyers, passthrough irish based warehouses?

Vieira82 · 25-10-2020 1:36pm

Augeo wrote: »

I buy shoes reduced on line that are still 200/300 Euro..... From the factory often. No fooking way am I driving into Dublin to try and find them for 400+.

Most of my clothes I'll get in BT sale or Kildare Village..... Local menswear outlets are stocking awful stuff.

I shop in the local supervalue instead of Aldi or Lidl or Tesco as its a nice shop and the bottom line compares favourably.

Local restaurants, yes. Most definitely in the ones with good menus and settings etc.

Basically I shop local if the outlet is priced competitively with decent stuff that I want.

This example is pure and simple bull****. You cannot buy from the factory. You are buying from someone that bought from the factory their excess stock. Those shoes are 100% not made in Europe and had a cost of probably a couple of Euros. I know this because I work with shoe factories from around Europe.

You are just blatantly lying and you have no idea how retail works and how it works in a globalized world where European shoemakers struggle to make a living in a market filled to the brim with third world countries products

So no, you're not buying local or cheap you live in a illusion and actually being ripped off by that "factory seller"

A cost of an European made pair of shoes is around 39€ add to that a retail margin of x3 a comfortable margin and you get a pair of high quality brogues for 120€

So if you're buying European or Irish (which I know you aren't) you are being ripped off.

If you're buying from a "factory" in a third world country you're being even more ripped off.

So yes you're just "waffling" about stuff you have no knowledge about

jetfiremuck · 25-10-2020 2:30pm

Look at the gougeing that we get when buying a car here ffs. treated like crap at purchase time with exceptions. It was and still is cheaper to buy in the UK , get a better spec and service history than here..........so should be all head to our local SIMI garage with a 500g jar of Vaseline......I dont think so.

jelem · 25-10-2020 2:40pm

Vieira82 wrote: »

This example is pure and simple bull****. You cannot buy from the factory. You are buying from someone that bought from the factory their excess stock. Those shoes are 100% not made in Europe and had a cost of probably a couple of Euros. I know this because I work with shoe factories from around Europe.

You are just blatantly lying and you have no idea how retail works and how it works in a globalized world where European shoemakers struggle to make a living in a market filled to the brim with third world countries products

So no, you're not buying local or cheap you live in a illusion and actually being ripped off by that "factory seller"

A cost of an European made pair of shoes is around 39€ add to that a retail margin of x3 a comfortable margin and you get a pair of high quality brogues for 120€

So if you're buying European or Irish (which I know you aren't) you are being ripped off.

If you're buying from a "factory" in a third world country you're being even more ripped off.

So yes you're just "waffling" about stuff you have no knowledge about

lol You just the person needed to force irish to buy overpriced goods.
you touting for job in bord failte or other -
ive bought from hong kong expecting medium quality and been surprised by the high quality level.
just watch for brexit and how EU will pile on more tax if not irish government do it themselves.
ireland will have to pay more anyhow to make up for eu loss of uk payment..
You fail to point out free trade is a fake statement.
It is Get what you can and "island" ireland with government taking high tax is the
cause.

Vieira82 · 25-10-2020 2:46pm

jelem wrote: »

lol You just the person needed to force irish to buy overpriced goods.
you touting for job in bord failte or other -
ive bought from hong kong expecting medium quality and been surprised by the high quality level.
just watch for brexit and how EU will pile on more tax if not irish government do it themselves.
ireland will have to pay more anyhow to make up for eu loss of uk payment..
You fail to point out free trade is a fake statement.
It is Get what you can and "island" ireland with government taking high tax is the
cause.

Ahahaha

high taxes in Ireland? When you can, feel free leave the rock you're under a smell the world outside

Never ceases to surprise me how much the Irish love to spit on their own country with an innane will based on nothing.

Don't ever move to France, Germany or Spain, you'll get a heart attack when you see your tax liability

jelem · 25-10-2020 3:21pm

Vieira82 wrote: »

Ahahaha high taxes in Ireland? When you can, feel free leave the rock you're under a smell the world outside

Never ceases to surprise me how much the Irish love to spit on their own country with an innane will based on nothing.

Don't ever move to France, Germany or Spain, you'll get a heart attack when you see your tax liability

You fail to advise of the "benefits" available in those countries which are not here.
i have lived in many countries on this plkanet and my eyes have not been fitted with
irish "under the rock" mental ability glasses.
the loyal irish "rose tinted glasses" you have are being removed slowly by the
citizens slow removal of FG and FF jackboot influence on citizens education
by refusing to give them a majority to continue in their little\narrow minded ways.

Vieira82 · 25-10-2020 3:36pm

jelem wrote: »

You fail to advise of the "benefits" available in those countries which are not here.
i have lived in many countries on this plkanet and my eyes have not been fitted with
irish "under the rock" mental ability glasses.
the loyal irish "rose tinted glasses" you have are being removed slowly by the
citizens slow removal of FG and FF jackboot influence on citizens education
by refusing to give them a majority to continue in their little\narrow minded ways.

Just need to mention one... a working, practically free National Health System.

would gladly pay more taxes for that

everything else you wrote is just a complete enraged ramble, good for you for loosing your cool, now, let's go back on topic.

AndrewJRenko · 25-10-2020 5:27pm

JustAThought wrote: »

Drive the length of Ireland off the motorways - it is full of desolate bleak barren villages and run down town riddled with abandoned and empty units. If you want busy villages with local shops and part time jobs for your families and teenagers and little sweet shops to drop into and pick up a newspaper & have a chat & buy a something for an occasion for yourself or your kids then you should support local businesses. There is more to the economy and creating and sustaIning communities than getting a bargain price. Look at the miners towns in the uk - when the main businesses went everything collapsed and while generations have had to emigrate or live with no hope. There was a famous book in the 60’s written about the decline of rural Irish towns, the loss of the youth to no opportunities or local employment and the exodus of young and families from villages and areas that had nothing left open in them - this is exactly that over again.
‘No-one shouted stop’.

The bigger problem for these villages and towns is the preponderance of one-off housing that create a car-bound lifestyle with NOTHING within walking distance. If they did a bit of proper town planning and had people living within walking or cycling distance of the town centre, they would be much more likely to use the shops in the town rather than driving to the out-of-town retail parks.

Dempo1 wrote: »

O God, I'm reminded of a men's wear shop in a Midlands town (no names) absolute chancer. Customer would arrive, needing shirts, owner would say I've the very thing, run out the back of the store, into Dunnes, get a few discounted shirts, run back over, remove packaging etc and mark up price x 2, he didn't only do this with shirts, trousers etc. He even got his hands on rental suits and sold them as new. Finally caught out when the wife queried hubby about one set of shirts, hubby purchased, she wondered why Dunnes Stores branded label on the inside, went to the dunnes stores to verify and check prices. I'd didn't witness what happened next but I believe there was an entertaining screaming match on the street outside menswear shop shortly afterwards. It was the talk of the town for weeks after with more disgruntled customers arriving. Shop thankfully now closed, Revenue were involved.

So no-one else ever noticed the Dunnes labels on shirts for years? Are all the townies in-bred to the point of mental deficiency or what?

salonfire · 25-10-2020 5:53pm

The OP's post is typical of someone in the public sector.

When we are subjected to their propaganda campaigns for pay increases, all we hear the importance of setting a benchmark to 'avoid a race to the bottom' , to support local towns and villages, criticizing big business that refuse to recognize unions.

However when it comes to their spending, they are first online to save a euro with Amazon or first to jump on a Ryanair flight. Never a 2nd thought given to local towns or workers if it saves them a euro.

Wanderer78 · 25-10-2020 5:55pm

salonfire wrote: »

The OP's post is typical of someone in the public sector.

When we are subjected to their propaganda campaigns for pay increases, all we hear the importance of setting a benchmark to 'avoid a race to the bottom' , to support local towns and villages, criticizing big business that refuse to recognize unions.

However when it comes to their spending, they are first online to save a euro with Amazon or first to jump on a Ryanair flight. Never a 2nd thought given to local towns or workers if it saves them a euro.

is the op a public sector worker?

screamer · 25-10-2020 6:04pm

It’ll all be well and good until all our local shops are closed. Then you’ll have people moaning they’re gone. I buy clothes locally as I like to see what I’m buying. I don’t believe in this fast fashion crap and would rather pay more for something of quality that lasts well. Yes, it is more expensive but so be it, this cut everything to the bottom line is why we are so dependant in China and other Far Eastern countries for crap. Filling our world with crap and wrecking the environment. Some things are worth paying extra for, but greed always wins.

27-10-2020 12:24pm

Vieira82 wrote: »

Ireland has plenty of artisans and crafters. Really good talented people with very small businesses. Most of them do not have a shop even, they have their stock in craft shops or do craft markets and events to put their goods out there.

Ireland also has plenty of gougers, people looking to charge over the odds for something they've deluded themselves into believing is worth far more than it actually is. Plenty of markets also who don't accept anything other than cash, so you can bet your ass the taxman won't be seeing a penny of it.

Vieira82 wrote: »

Keep in mind going for the cheapest option is not good either. There is always a fair price for anything. IF you are buying something at a very cheap price it means that if you're not paying for it someone else is.

Tug at the heart strings all you want, people will vote with their wallets 90% of the time. If you're an artisanal leatherworker who's charging nearly €50 for a wallet that's available for €1 in Penney's, then your business model is a joke and completely unsustainable, and you should maybe look for another field of work.

If, however, your €50 wallet is miles better than the Penneys one and completely different in practically every way, then your comparison isn't valid and it renders the rest of your post redundant.

Wanderer78 wrote: »

....again, how can smaller shops compete against such monopolies?

Convenience, is the short and simple answer. You flaunt the things that the big boys don't or can't do. I buy my dog food online, because lugging around 15-20kg is a pain in the neck (literally). Last time I ran out, I popped into a B&M shop near me and discovered they do local, same day deliveries. I've started buying from them now.

Same with every other type of shopping discussed so far in this thread. Amazon are no use to you if you need a shirt for a meeting tomorrow, or when your wipers are banjaxed on your car and it is raining out, or the kids need some bonjela for their teeth. But, by that same token, neither is your local shop if they pull the shutters at 5.00pm on the dot.

screamer wrote: »

It’ll all be well and good until all our local shops are closed. Then you’ll have people moaning they’re gone. I buy clothes locally as I like to see what I’m buying. I don’t believe in this fast fashion crap and would rather pay more for something of quality that lasts well. Yes, it is more expensive but so be it, this cut everything to the bottom line is why we are so dependant in China and other Far Eastern countries for crap. Filling our world with crap and wrecking the environment. Some things are worth paying extra for, but greed always wins.

You're deluding yourself if you don't think that the vast, vast majority of the clothes you're buying locally aren't also made in Asia by the same 12 year olds who are making sh1t for Penneys.

kippy · 27-10-2020 12:29pm

Heebie wrote: »

The ones you got are probably knock-offs that cost $10 to make.

Most of these things cost that price or less to make. Knock off or not.....

Supporting local where feasible/possible is a good thing however price does come into it. Of there's not much in it I'll go local if I can. Sometimes local though is national.

27-10-2020 12:31pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

what if its your only choice?

It's only your only choice if you have no interest whatsoever in bettering yourself, learning new skills or earning more money. To resign yourself to working 40+ years in an entry level retail job requires a satisfaction with entry level pay and benefits for 40+ years ......... that's a decision, pure and simple.

The case for NOT supporting local business

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