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Daniel O'Connell

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  • 21-03-2010 1:12pm
    #1
    jimboddb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 169 ✭✭


    Hi All,

    Heading to Genoa in a couple of weeks & hope to visit Daniel O'Connells place of death. Have done a some research both on the net & literature but so far have had no luck.

    Thinking about contacting the History Dept. of the local University if I cant find it soon.

    Just wondering if anyone on here has read anything or could point me in the right direction.

    Thanks
    Jim


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    #2
    SlabMurphy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 462 ✭✭SlabMurphy


    jimboddb wrote: »
    Hi All,

    Heading to Genoa in a couple of weeks & hope to visit Daniel O'Connells place of death. Have done a some research both on the net & literature but so far have had no luck.

    Thinking about contacting the History Dept. of the local University if I cant find it soon.

    Just wondering if anyone on here has read anything or could point me in the right direction.

    Thanks
    Jim
    I believe the ' Liberator ' volunteered for the British army during Robert Emmet's rising, so much for him been a pacifist :rolleyes:. Despite his public image of being a good Catholic upstanding citizen, privately he had the morals of Charlie Haughey when it came to living the good life and the opposite sex etc

    James Connolly was very critical of O'Connell. He is an article on him by James Connolly -

    A chapter of horrors: Daniel O’Connell and the working class
    http://www.marxists.org/archive/connolly/1910/lih/chap12.htm


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    #3
    brianthebard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,165 ✭✭✭✭brianthebard


    That doesn't answer any of the op's question.

    OP you should probably check a travel guidebook.


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    #4
    jimboddb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 169 ✭✭jimboddb


    Sweet FA in the travel books I'm afriad. I've been before & Genoa isnt exactly a touristy place which is part of its charm.

    At this stage the University is probably my best bet it seems

    And I'm fully aware of O'Connells private life but none the less would like to find where he died.


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    #5
    MarchDub
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,731 ✭✭✭MarchDub


    Jim - I found a reference in the Saturday Review archives of 1880 to a small square in Genoa that has a plaque on an "inn" [not named] marking the death there of O'Connell. Not much information other than the actual inscription in Italian. I can't post the link because of copyright restrictions - you have to have an account to go in - but if you IM me I can tell you all I can read there.


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    #6
    jimboddb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 169 ✭✭jimboddb


    Hi MarchDub,

    Talks for your reply. Not sure what the Saturday Review archives are bout sounds promising. Any information at all would be greatly appreciated as I've completely drawn a blank on this.

    Jim


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    #7
    Snickers Man
    Registered Users Posts: 5,301 ✭✭✭Snickers Man


    SlabMurphy wrote: »
    I believe the ' Liberator ' volunteered for the British army during Robert Emmet's rising, so much for him been a pacifist :rolleyes:. Despite his public image of being a good Catholic upstanding citizen, privately he had the morals of Charlie Haughey when it came to living the good life and the opposite sex etc

    James Connolly was very critical of O'Connell. He is an article on him by James Connolly -

    A chapter of horrors: Daniel O’Connell and the working class
    http://www.marxists.org/archive/connolly/1910/lih/chap12.htm

    He was a tactical and pragmatic pacifist rather than a doctrinaire one. And he was dead right.

    One of his sons served as an army officer on the staff of Simon Bolivar's army in South America. And he himself once shot and killed somebody in a duel.

    And I believe his family fortune was made in part by smuggling.
    So that's something he and your eponym have in common. ;)


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    #8
    MarchDub
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,731 ✭✭✭MarchDub


    jimboddb wrote: »
    Hi MarchDub,

    Talks for your reply. Not sure what the Saturday Review archives are bout sounds promising. Any information at all would be greatly appreciated as I've completely drawn a blank on this.

    Jim

    I have sent you a pm with the information I have.


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    #9
    navigator
    Registered Users Posts: 77 ✭✭navigator


    Yes, Daniel O'Connel died in Genoa. On the front of the house where he died, in Genoa Old Town, there is a marble plaque with his face and a sentence (in latin) about him.
    I had taken a picture of it, just try to find it and I will post the pic here.
    (I live in Genoa)


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    #10
    MarchDub
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,731 ✭✭✭MarchDub


    navigator wrote: »
    Yes, Daniel O'Connel died in Genoa. On the front of the house where he died, in Genoa Old Town, there is a marble plaque with his face and a sentence (in latin) about him.
    I had taken a picture of it, just try to find it and I will post the pic here.
    (I live in Genoa)

    Thanks. I hope you can post the photo - I found the actual Latin inscription in an old reference in the NY Times of the 19th Century - describing "an inn" and wondered if it was all still there.


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    #11
    navigator
    Registered Users Posts: 77 ✭✭navigator


    Here attacched is the picture of Daniel O'Connell monument in Genoa.
    I translate form latin to english:

    To Daniel O’Connell, vindicator of civil and religious rights of his Ireland, travelling to Rome died in this house on 15th may 1847. This monument was made raising money in the centennial of his birth, in 1875.


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    #12
    MarchDub
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,731 ✭✭✭MarchDub


    Great photo - thanks much for this Navigator. I do appreciate it. The Latin inscription reference I found only quoted as far as "Cessit e vita" so it's informative to see the entire.

    I can't quite make out the small medallion underneath - is that written in Italian? There was an old reference somewhere that I found to an Italian inscription so it would make sense if this was that reference.

    Does the hotel know - or show people - the room he died in? I presume that it is still the same building and not a new one built on the site? I know the small hotel in Paris where Oscar Wilde died will show you the room if they are in the mood. But Italians are friendlier than Parisians in my experience -


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    #13
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    My parents did the trip a few years ago. Looked it up and the Genoa Hotel and back then was the Hotel Feder in Piazza Bianchi and his heart placed in St. Agatha's, the church of the Irish College in Rome and his body buried under the Round Tower in Glasnevin Cemetary

    So maybe if you are having difficulty getting information you might try the Irish College in Rome as they may have the exact locations etc.He travelled to Genoa with a priest and Cardinal Cullen was Rector of the Irish College back then.

    http://www.irishcollege.org/contact.htm

    An interesting aside on O'Connell etc -what many people forget is that until Catholic Emancipation you didnt have dedicated Catholic Graveyards and burials and graveyards were haphazard affairs etc so genelogy starts/stops around 1830 for most people.

    Glasnevin Cemetary was really the first major Catholic cemetary In Dublin and funeral rights etc could be performed -until then it was at the discretion of the local Church of Ireland if that was the local graveyard.


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    #14
    Exile 1798
    Registered Users Posts: 709 ✭✭✭Exile 1798


    SlabMurphy wrote: »
    I believe the ' Liberator ' volunteered for the British army during Robert Emmet's rising, so much for him been a pacifist :rolleyes:. Despite his public image of being a good Catholic upstanding citizen, privately he had the morals of Charlie Haughey when it came to living the good life and the opposite sex etc

    James Connolly was very critical of O'Connell. He is an article on him by James Connolly -

    A chapter of horrors: Daniel O’Connell and the working class
    http://www.marxists.org/archive/connolly/1910/lih/chap12.htm

    I don't know what use a Marxist critique of a political leader from a pre-Marxist era is.

    We rightly tend to judge people in the context of their time.


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    #15
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    Exile 1798 wrote: »

    We rightly tend to judge people in the context of their time.

    Yes and we should leave Marx out of it but we shouldnt forget his alleged activities

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/weekend/2010/0313/1224266183004.html

    Ellen Courtenay imprisoned for debt claimed Daniel O'Connell was the father of her son and tried to raise money by writting her story and selling it via a pamphletteer. THis would have been their equivalent of a tabloid.


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    #16
    TheProdigalTom
    Registered Users Posts: 4 ✭TheProdigalTom


    Thanks for posting the picture. It allowed me to find a page in Italian, that indicates where it is:
    http://www.chieracostui.com/costui/docs/search/schedaoltre.asp?ID=543
    " via Ponte Reale 16 rosso - Genova, GE "

    navigator wrote: »
    Here attacched is the picture of Daniel O'Connell monument in Genoa.
    I translate form latin to english:

    To Daniel O’Connell, vindicator of civil and religious rights of his Ireland, travelling to Rome died in this house on 15th may 1847. This monument was made raising money in the centennial of his birth, in 1875.


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    #17
    goose2005
    Registered Users Posts: 4,798 ✭✭✭goose2005


    Exile 1798 wrote: »
    I don't know what use a Marxist critique of a political leader from a pre-Marxist era is.

    We rightly tend to judge people in the context of their time.

    The labour movement was very active in the early 19th century


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    #18
    Jolly Red Giant
    Registered Users Posts: 3,434 ✭✭✭Jolly Red Giant


    goose2005 wrote: »
    The labour movement was very active in the early 19th century
    Yes it was and O'Connell was the main architect of the establishment attacks against it.

    O'Connell engaged in rampant nepotism, crassly lining his pockets and those of his extended family with every penny they could get their hands on.

    He would whip up social tensions to serve his own purpose and then move to attack them when they wouldn't toe-the-line. He was a typical 'Duke of York' type figure who was completely intolerant of any dissent. His sidekicks regulary worked with local Orange establishments to suppress all opposition social movements and used violence when necessary to get their way.

    But he retained his most venemous attacks for the labour movement whom he regarded as undermining 'native manufacture' and regularly used his influence (and footsoldiers) to suppress strike action.

    O'Connell is one of a long list of establishment figures whose myth has been perpetrated for propaganda purposes and who needs to be shown for the chancer that he really was.


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