How do I say 'Hello'

OldGoat · 19-08-2008 2:17pm #1

Ok, sound easy, just say 'Dia Aguit'...but...how do I say 'Hello' in gaelic without invoking God? I know it's difficult to believe but there are a few non-religious people in the country. I've tried using 'La go brath agat', 'Failte' or even 'Conas ata tú' (sp?) but they just don't seem to fit. How did we ever say hello to each other before Patrick got here and did the Christian thing on us? Is there a simple straightforward greeting?

[Monolingual] Old Goat

Burial · 19-08-2008 4:36pm

Hi. (That's how it's pronounced, not spelt, I don't know the spelling)

So to answer your question people say hi (pronounced, not spelt) if you don't want to say Dia duit, but it's very English. In fact it is English except that its spelt differently.

Dia duit is fine to say. It's literal meaning isn't the actual meaning. We're all not an online translator (Babelfish, feicim tusa) To Irish speaking people, it means Hello and not God be with you. So I don't see what the problem is.

Gael · 19-08-2008 6:17pm

OldGoat wrote: »

Ok, sound easy, just say 'Dia Aguit'...but...how do I say 'Hello' in gaelic without invoking God? I know it's difficult to believe but there are a few non-religious people in the country.
[Monolingual] Old Goat

Do you also have a problem with saying 'Bye/Goodbye' in English, since it comes from 'God Be With You'?

OldGoat · 19-08-2008 9:37pm

Burial wrote: »

Hi. (That's how it's pronounced, not spelt, I don't know the spelling)

So to answer your question people say hi (pronounced, not spelt) if you don't want to say Dia duit, but it's very English. In fact it is English except that its spelt differently.

Dia duit is fine to say. It's literal meaning isn't the actual meaning. We're all not an online translator (Babelfish, feicim tusa) To Irish speaking people, it means Hello and not God be with you. So I don't see what the problem is.

So what you are telling me is that there is no way to say 'Hello' in gaelic without using the word 'Dia' or by using an english word instead? I appricate that I can say 'Hi' and that gaelic speakers will understand me but thats not what I asked for. Thanks anyway.

Gael wrote: »

Do you also have a problem with saying 'Bye/Goodbye' in English, since it comes from 'God Be With You'?

Actually I do have a problem with it but as I know the language a little better then I know gaelic I can work around it.

I don't know how to greet people in gaelic without using the words 'Dia duit'. (Thanks for the correct spelling Burial.) I thought it was a straightforward question to ask and hoped there would be a straightforward answer.

tolosenc · 20-08-2008 10:44am

Well, if we really want to get into it, we'd need to take this over to the linguistics forum, but I'll do my best with laymans terms for now.

In the field of cognitive linguistics(ie linguistics related to concious thought), there is a hypothesis (called the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis). This hypothesis states, roughly, that the language we speak affects the way in which we interact with and view the world around us. In essence, the languages we speak are nothing more than noises we produce to invoke concepts we all understand, and that although some languages phrase things radically differently, investigation has shown that the general concept invoked is nigh identical.

By the same token, "Dia Dhuit" no more invokes the concious concept of God than the English "Hello" invokes Hell. Do you have the same issues about saying "Go Raibh Maith Agat"? Literally, it means "May you be forgiven" - invoking the Christian doctrine, whereby forgiveness from Christ is the cornerstone of belief.

From a Gaeilgóir's point of view, there is no real correct way of saying Hello without using the word Dia.

You can be non-religious, but that doesn't mean that you should be (a) anti-religious, or (b) disrespectful of the culture of those who speak the language.

In fact, in Arabic, using the future tense or conditional mood and not "إن شاء الله" (In šaʾ Allāh) is almost considered gramatically incorrect, let alone culturally rude.

OldGoat · 20-08-2008 11:28am

obl wrote: »

In the field of cognitive linguistics(ie linguistics related to concious thought), there is a hypothesis (called the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis). This hypothesis states, roughly, that the language we speak affects the way in which we interact with and view the world around us. In essence, the languages we speak are nothing more than noises we produce to invoke concepts we all understand, and that although some languages phrase things radically differently, investigation has shown that the general concept invoked is nigh identical.

Phew! OK, I get that, I think. What the hypothesis is saying is that what is important about the words we use is the 'Intent' rather then the literal meaning of the words.

obl wrote: »

By the same token, "Dia Dhuit" no more invokes the concious concept of God than the English "Hello" invokes Hell. Do you have the same issues about saying - [Lost in editing]? Literally, it means "May you be forgiven" - invoking the Christian doctrine, whereby forgiveness from Christ is the cornerstone of belief.

I didn't know that translated as "May you be forgiven". Now I have another (personal) moral minefield to work around. Mind you I don't believe that 'Forgiveness' is necessarily a Deity only trait. :-)

obl wrote: »

From a Gaeilgóir's point of view, there is no real correct way of saying Hello without using the word Dia.

Thank you. This is what I wanted to know.

obl wrote: »

You can be non-religious, but that doesn't mean that you should be (a) anti-religious, or (b) disrespectful of the culture of those who speak the language.

I hope you didn't interpret anything I said as being anti-religious or disrespectful. That was not my intent. It was my pursuit of being PC that led me to this question in the first place. As I see it, for me to go around saying "God be with you", or any similar phrase is showing me to be hypocritical to my own beliefs and to be condescending to yours, be you Christian, Muslim, Taoist or atheist. It is like me, as an atheist, going to a Mass and reciting the prayers of the Faithful. I see that as a wrong thing to do, a disrespectful thing to do.

I didn't start this thread to get into theological or philosophical arguments but we seem to be going further and further down those lines. I had found it strange that such an old language as Gaelic was so tied to the Church that it seemed to have lost one of the most basic words or phrases; the greeting.

Thanks Obl.

Burial · 20-08-2008 12:34pm

OldGoat wrote: »

So what you are telling me is that there is no way to say 'Hello' in gaelic without using the word 'Dia' or by using an english word instead? I appricate that I can say 'Hi' and that gaelic speakers will understand me but thats not what I asked for. Thanks anyway.

Actually I do have a problem with it but as I know the language a little better then I know gaelic I can work around it.

I don't know how to greet people in gaelic without using the words 'Dia duit'. (Thanks for the correct spelling Burial.) I thought it was a straightforward question to ask and hoped there would be a straightforward answer.

On the phone in Irish people use hi... (Thats what I saw on Rós na ruin)
You've got to understand that there is no other way to say hello in Irish. "Dia duit" is the only way. I don't understand what the problem is. In Japanese they have a whole freakin' language just for foreign words (Yes another language, there's 3 of them in Japanese, Kanji Hiragana and Katakana) So, this is how you say Hello in Irish. It isn't about god or anything of that sort. It's how you say hello.

So to answer your question, yes there is a straight forward answer except you want a complicated one. I have provided the English adaption of Hello into Irish that is used by Native Irish speakers. If you don't want to say Dia duit or Dia is mhuire duit then that's fine. Just don't think you won't come off sounding rude after someone says Dia duit and you say Hi.

Dia duit is considered the most respectable way of saying hello to someone. Hai is the conversational one that you say to people you know (I'm presuming I'm not a native Irish speaker, just I can't imagine Irish people who know each other say hello to each other by Dia duit. I can however (As I know a guy who does this) say that most Irish people will say the persons name to say hello. For example, A Burial, Conás atá tú? So once you know the person you either say hi or their name, and if you don't know them you say Dia duit. I really don't understand why saying Dia duit has that much of an offence anyway... It's like saying Feic tú is bad because it sounds like the English equiv... Irish people would just go wtf are you talking about?)

enda1 · 20-08-2008 12:43pm

Burial wrote: »

In Japanese they have a whole freakin' language just for foreign words (Yes another language, there's 3 of them in Japanese, Kanji Hiragana and Katakana) So, this is how you say Hello in Irish. It isn't about god or anything of that sort. It's how you say hello.

em, alphabet and words do you mean? Not really a different language because the three alphabets are used sometimes int eh same sentence to convey a meaning.

Burial · 20-08-2008 1:18pm

enda1 wrote: »

em, alphabet and words do you mean? Not really a different language because the three alphabets are used sometimes int eh same sentence to convey a meaning.

Yeah I meant alphabet. I couldn't think of the word... Language just seemed to fit well... Anyway, still doesn't take away from my point. Dia duit is the way to say Hello to someone you don't know

OldGoat · 20-08-2008 1:31pm

Burial wrote: »

You've got to understand that there is no other way to say hello in Irish. "Dia duit" is the only way.

That is the answer to the question I asked.

Burial wrote: »

Dia duit is considered the most respectable way of saying hello to someone.

I'm not disputing that. I asked if there was anyother way of saying it...in gaelic.

Burial wrote: »

I really don't understand why saying Dia duit has that much of an offence anyway...

Let me try to make my point a bit clearer. Now the only thing I know about users of this forum is that they are (rightfully) proud of their language. So, concider how ye would feel if the only way they had to say 'hello' is to use the phrase 'Gaelic Sucks' or something similar. Not offensive but a little distasteful. You could all say it and use it but deep down in your own minds you would know that you were uncomfortable using that phrase.
I, as an athiest, find the use of the phrase 'Dia Duit'...hyprocritical, not offensive but hyprotical for me personally. I have no problem with other people using it or for it being said to me by people who don't know that I don't believe in a god. I am not offended by it being used. I know that most people use it without thinking of it as a blessing and simply thinking of it as a greeting but I can't do that. Because of that I wanted to know if I could say anything else instead.

Burial wrote: »

You've got to understand that there is no other way to say hello in Irish. "Dia duit" is the only way.

Thanks, that what I wanted to know.

VW08 · 20-08-2008 1:34pm

I dont know how to spell it but its sounds like "Connas Tee". It means "hi,how are you?"

Zulu · 20-08-2008 1:54pm

:rolleyes: what is it with atheists.
You can respect your sensitivities as an atheist and say "dia duit" - the person you are talking to might be a believer. If you want to speak the language, do it, and embrace it for what it is. Leave your religious zealously at the door.

Alternatively, you could say "cad e mar a ta tu", which is effectively "hello" with out referring to any religion.

Zulu · 20-08-2008 1:57pm

VW08 wrote: »

I dont know how to spell it but its sounds like "Connas Tee". It means "hi,how are you?"

That would be "Conas atoi" which is an abbreviation of "conas ata tu", meaning "how are you?" and would be perfectly acceptable also.

Tzetze · 20-08-2008 2:02pm

obl wrote: »

Do you have the same issues about saying "Go Raibh Maith Agat"? Literally, it means "May you be forgiven" - invoking the Christian doctrine, whereby forgiveness from Christ is the cornerstone of belief.

I was under the impression that 'Go raibh maith agat' literally translates to 'That there will have been goodness unto (at) you'. I don't see where forgiveness or Christ fits into the translation.

r3nu4l · 20-08-2008 2:05pm

OldGoat wrote: »

Actually I do have a problem with it but as I know the language a little better then I know gaelic I can work around it.

I don't know how to greet people in gaelic without using the words 'Dia duit'. (Thanks for the correct spelling Burial.) I thought it was a straightforward question to ask and hoped there would be a straightforward answer.

Well in English the word good, comes from "God", so you must have a hard time speaking English

You can't say Good Morning, Have a good day, that was good, I like good food...

Getting around it in Irish is hard but in English it's every bit as difficult! I assume you also don't say ... To hell with that, thank heavens, the devil is in the detail... wow! Tough going.

It's an interesting question, there must have once been a way (historically) of saying hello, without invoking God, however I suspect it may have been to invoke some pagan God...also just as distasteful to an athiest I'd imagine!

OldGoat · 20-08-2008 2:36pm

r3nu4l wrote: »

Well in English the word good, comes from "God", so you must have a hard time speaking English You can't say

Good Morning: Top o'the mornin to yaa sir. [Tugging cap]
Have a good day: may your day go well.
That was good: Yummmy.
I like good food: I'm a gastronome.

r3nu4l wrote: »

Getting around it in Irish is hard but in English it's every bit as difficult! I assume you also don't say ...

To hell with that: Fook That!
Thank heavens: Thank the stars
The devil is in the detail: Read the small details
wow! Tough going.
Agreed, the last one was difficult to circumvent

r3nu4l wrote: »

It's an interesting question, there must have once been a way (historically) of saying hello, without invoking God,

Woohooo, finally. Someone who's interest got piqued.

r3nu4l wrote: »

however I suspect it may have been to invoke some pagan God

DOH!

r3nu4l wrote: »

...also just as distasteful to an athiest I'd imagine!

True enough.

r3nu4l · 20-08-2008 3:19pm

OldGoat wrote: »

Thank heavens: Thank the stars

All fine except this one, some pagans used to worship the stars as well as the sun and moon.

So have any native Irish speakers any opinions on how one might avoid the mention of Dia nó Muire if one chose to? Is it possible?

BTW, I'm not an athiest, I'm just curious. I recognise that Dia dhuit should not be translated literally but should instead be taken as "Hello" but for arguments sake, is there an alternative? After all, as Béarla, we say "Hello", "Hi", "(Good) Morning", "How'r'ya" etc., any Irish equivalents?

Zulu · 20-08-2008 3:32pm

ahem, I gave you one!

r3nu4l · 20-08-2008 3:37pm

Zulu wrote: »

ahem, I gave you one!

Oops, missed that one. I would use "Conas atá tú?" a lot, is that not correct then, should I use your solution in place of that? Why is it better? (I ask to learn, not to challenge you)

OldGoat · 20-08-2008 3:39pm

r3nu4l wrote: »

some pagans used to worship the stars as well as the sun and moon.

I could argue this one with you but it's probably a little too far off topic.

Zulu · 20-08-2008 3:43pm

not at all buddy

"Conas ata tu?" is perfectly fine. Lenster Irish iirc.
"Conas atoi?" is an abbreviation of the above. Munster Irish, I believe.
"Cad e mar ata tu?" is Ulster Irish. It's "hello/how are you" in a way only the northies could come up with! "What is it about you/what is it because of you" - is the direct translation (please someone correct this - I know it's not great), but it really doesn't capture the meaning. It means "hello/how are you".

VW08 · 20-08-2008 3:57pm

Zulu wrote: »

That would be "Conas atoi" which is an abbreviation of "conas ata tu", meaning "how are you?" and would be perfectly acceptable also.

Yep thats the one. Cheers

Burial · 20-08-2008 5:40pm

Old Goat wrote:

Good Morning: Top o'the mornin to yaa sir. [Tugging cap]
Have a good day: may your day go well.
That was good: Yummmy.
I like good food: I'm a gastronome.

To hell with that: Fook That!
Thank heavens: Thank the stars
The devil is in the detail: Read the small details
wow! Tough going.
Agreed, the last one was difficult to circumvent

Good Morning: Morning
Have a good day: Have a nice day
That was good: That was nice.
I like good food: I like nice food.

To hell with that: Fook That! or No way or not going to do that
Thank heavens: Thankfully or Oh thank you or Finally depnding ont he situation.

The devil is in the detail: Amazing detail

Easy list. You can find equivalents quite easy in the English language due to the massive amount of different dialects and slang that popped up through the years.

Here's a funny question. Do you say hello in English? No? Yes? Granted You've to avoid any word with the Irish to English equiv otherwise your a hypocrite, because the literal meaning of hello in Irish is dia duit, which literally translated to Enlish, contains a three letter word you don't believe in. People have provided alternatives, I just have never heard them on Tg4 or on LC/JC tapes or in my (VERY Limited) conversations through Irish. If you really want an answer ask a teacher or a person who speaks the language fluently. I'm not fluent in it and probably not the most reliable on this thing. However all I gave you was my response to your question. (Are there alternatives? Yes, hoigh or just there name)

On the JC and the LC they say á Johnny, or hoigh, between two friends and dia duit in the shop between I presume two unknown people. You've got to be the only person I've ever known who's taken Dia duit literally.

"The comedian died on the stage" Literally or he just wasn't funny?
"He kicked the bucket" Literally or Died?
"fit as a fiddle" The list is nearly endless...

hello = hoigh (Found the right spelling)
bheannaim duit = good morning (I think. bheannaigh sé dum means he wished me good morning)

How do you not have a problem with hell-o? Does it not remind you too much of something you don't believe in? I'm not being mean in this post, this actually happened for this reason.
http://www.mndaily.com/articles/1997/01/17/2982

*EDIT*

Actually I've heard "Conas tee" before on an LC tape. Also, I didn't know that Dia is Muire dhuit meant God and Mary be with you... I just thought it meant (besides hello in return) God also be with you...

OldGoat · 21-08-2008 9:31am

Burial wrote: »

How do you not have a problem with hell-o? Does it not remind you too much of something you don't believe in?

The entomology of the word 'Hello' has nothing to do with 'Hell', it’s most likely origins are ‘Hail’ or ’Whole’* That’s like saying to me that I should be wary of saying 'Cross-dressing' because it has 'Cross' in it, or not saying 'Christian' because it has 'Christ' in it. The entomology of 'Dia duit' comes directly from a blessing.
Please...I am NOT trying to prolong a religious argument here. I (stupidly) obscured my initial question by using poor attempt at humour to explain why I PERSONALY would like to use something other then Dia Duit when I greet someone. I should have phrased my initial question more along the lines that r3nu4l used when he said:

r3nu4l wrote: »

I recognise that Dia dhuit should not be translated literally but should instead be taken as "Hello" but for arguments sake, is there an alternative? After all, as Béarla, we say "Hello", "Hi", "(Good) Morning", "How'r'ya" etc., any Irish equivalents?

Various posts have given me other ways of greeting people, mostly on an informal basis, one of which I already use in preference to saying ‘Dia Duit’. Thanks for those. You have given me something else to think about with ‘hoigh’. This is new to me and I’ll enjoy searching out its origin. Thanks for that.

Burial wrote: »

I'm not being mean in this post…

Appreciated and reciprocated

Burial wrote: »

…this actually happened for this reason.
http://www.mndaily.com/articles/1997/01/17/2982

Can’t comment on this untill I click the link at a later date.

*Source: Bryson, Bill. Mother Tongue: English & How It Got That Way

runswithascript · 23-08-2008 1:40pm

You must understand there is a huge difference between dia duit and good morning/goodbye because when those english words are spoken or read people don't recognise or manifest the word god from the greeting but the word dia literally remains in the irish greeting unadulterated.

It doesn't really matter if the word good comes from god because they are different words, can you honestly tell me every time you use the word good you mean to say 'god like'? Words mean what they mean, not what the words they evolved from mean and not what religious apologists would like them to mean.

The OP is not a religious zealot and you clearly don't understand the word atheist if you think it has anything to do with being religious, think of atheism as areligious and azealous. Ironymuch?

I don't see how there's something wrong with them asking how to say hello without invoking god. Somebody mentioned that the person one is greeting may be a religious person as justification for using dia duit - atheists don't say 'god bless you' to believers in english because to us it's as ridiculous as saying 'may the fairies watch over you' or some other nonsense so why would we want to say anything similar in irish whenever we're greeting people?

dlofnep · 23-08-2008 1:55pm

People say "Howya" as a hello in English.. Or even here in Waterford we say "Well". You'd rarely even hear a hello here. It's always Well or Howya.

So nothing wrong with... "Conas atá tu?" - How are you? Similar to "Howya".. I still say Well/Bhuel in Irish as a means of saying hello. So of course there are ways of introducing without using dia duit.

tolosenc · 25-08-2008 8:08am

Tzetze wrote: »

I was under the impression that 'Go raibh maith agat' literally translates to 'That there will have been goodness unto (at) you'. I don't see where forgiveness or Christ fits into the translation.

Maith, or derivations thereof, also mean forgiveness

How do I say 'Hello'

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