Outer City Bypass

Cycle · 10-02-2009 12:21pm

It is indeed an area of natural beauty and SPA. I am of course attempting to be a realist when i say that this by-pass and proposed fifth bridge over the Corrib needs to go ahead in order to relieve Galways buckling transport infrastructure.
However its unfortunate that we rely on the automobile so heavily. The bulding of the destruction of the the natural heritage is relative as think of the hundreds of areas across the city and its suburbs which have been ripped up to make way for 'development'.

The village has only recently been invested by the springing up of suburban housiong. This i do not understand as its so close to the city?

gleannuirce · 25-02-2009 2:41am

why are we arguing about a new bridge and bypass when it was built 20 years ago??? That's right, i'm old enough to remember the jams over the salmon weir bridge before the new quincentennial bridge was built.

We had the same arguments: urgently required, traffic flow, blah blah blah.

What it really was about was opening up land in knocknacarra for development, and more importantly, developers.

Now commuters have choked up the qc bridge, we have to have a new one. In the meantimes the lads with the big jeeps, good mates of Fahey and Hanley, buy up land around the new route.

Im stuck in the traffic every day. But I prefer it to ripping up eastern cois fharraige for the benefit of those bastards.

KevR · 25-02-2009 10:59am

gleannuirce wrote: »

What it really was about was opening up land in knocknacarra for development, and more importantly, developers.

Now commuters have choked up the qc bridge, we have to have a new one. In the meantimes the lads with the big jeeps, good mates of Fahey and Hanley, buy up land around the new route.

Most of the bypass will be motorway. They can buy and develop all the land they want near the route but they still won't be able to put direct accesses onto it.

Galway has grown in the last 20 years and will continue to grow. Unfortunately, the Quincentennial won't be able to adequately serve the people of Galway forever.

The main problem is that the N6 between Westside and Oranmore was built badly/cheaply/with little foresight. We have 2 lanes in each direction the whole way but far too many inadequate at-grade junctions; there's not one single grade-seperated junction along the whole route! If the current N6 had been built properly traffic wouldn't be half as bad and we'd probably get away without a new bypass/ring road for a few more years. But it was built badly, the space isn't there to upgrade pretty much all of the junctions, it would be too costly anyway and the major disruption during construction would kill the City. It's not an option at all now really.

I think we're going to have to proceed with the bypass - whether some people like it or not.

Cycle · 25-02-2009 5:26pm

It is reasonable to say that with the Irish economy in ruins, development and urban sprawl is not as much of a problem.

With cut backs occurring in every sector, I put this question to you, Will the conservation of Terryland/ Menlo be overlooked?

I am just a blow in,in Galway, so i know who Fahey is, but who's Hanley?

Aswell the Salmon weir bridge is still constantaly clogged with traffic along with all other bridges in the city during rush hour. It is my understanding that most cities equal to Galway's size all have these congestion problems. Our natural heritage shouldn't have to suffer just so these small problems are sloved!

Chris_533976 · 25-02-2009 6:56pm

FWIW the bypass, if built, will NOT be motorway. The M6 will terminate at the airport junction, then will be N6 from there. The bypass will not have motorway sightlines and will only be 100kmh capable, basically. So unfortunately, no chance of motorway.

?Cee?view · 25-02-2009 7:44pm

Chris_533976 wrote: »

FWIW the bypass, if built, will NOT be motorway. The M6 will terminate at the airport junction, then will be N6 from there. The bypass will not have motorway sightlines and will only be 100kmh capable, basically. So unfortunately, no chance of motorway.

Isn't there a possibility though that it could be designated Motorway, but with 100kmh limit? This would mean that planning couldn't be granted for access to and exits from the road, as it can be with a Dual Carraigeway. In fact, considering this, if they don't designate it Motorway, you can be damn sure the road will be developed on and ruined in a number of years!

snubbleste · 01-07-2009 10:28am

When did the bypass case go to court? I did not realise this was happening

An Bord Pleanála approved the €17 million Galway city bypass after finding the impact of the project on the Lough Corrib conservation area, while “locally severe”, would not adversely affect the “integrity” of the site..
In proceedings by Mr Sweetman, which opened yesterday, the State has agreed with claims by Mr Sweetman that the [An Bord Pleanala's] approval of November 2008 is invalid because it breaches provisions of the EU habitats directive requiring that such projects must not adversely affect the integrity of a conservation site, in this case the Lough Corrib candidate Special Area of Conservation (cSAC) site..>> Irish Times

?Cee?view · 01-07-2009 12:45pm

It's being heard in the Commercial Court. Cases are fastracked there if they're over a certain value. Galway City Council and Galway Co. Co. requested that it be heard there on the basis of the importance of the matter being dealt with quickly.

Hopefully, the apparently God awful mess can be sorted out, with Sweetman sent packing and Hands Across the Corrib thrown into the Corrib.

I see Sweetman is involved with the Shell to Sea crowd as well. He seems to be a serial objector/troublemaker.

ronnie3585 · 01-07-2009 2:03pm

churchview wrote: »

I see Sweetman is involved with the Shell to Sea crowd as well. He seems to be a serial objector/troublemaker.

Indeed. The ecological equivalent of Naill Farrell.

Robbo · 01-07-2009 2:30pm

churchview wrote: »

It's being heard in the Commercial Court. Cases are fastracked there if they're over a certain value. Galway City Council and Galway Co. Co. requested that it be heard there on the basis of the importance of the matter being dealt with quickly.

Hopefully, the apparently God awful mess can be sorted out, with Sweetman sent packing and Hands Across the Corrib thrown into the Corrib.

I see Sweetman is involved with the Shell to Sea crowd as well. He seems to be a serial objector/troublemaker.

Hands Across The Corrib Ltd, registered with the CRO in 2003. Was the outer bypass even on the cards back then?

JohnCleary · 01-07-2009 3:00pm

"Hands Across The Corrib" - WTF is that all about?

If a new bridge is built I hope little sh1ts don't go jumping off that too - I nearly had some eejit land in my boat the last day... that would have been some painful landing for him

cornbb · 01-07-2009 4:05pm

Are they hippies/environmentalists or plain old NIMBYs?

Sponge Bob · 01-07-2009 4:27pm

Hands are only bog standard dangan/menlo NIMBYs with green packaging .

ronnie3585 · 01-07-2009 5:14pm

'Hands across the Corrib' - WTF!

Dang draft dodging peace freaks.

Bring back the National Service I say, that'd sort em out.

Chris_533976 · 01-07-2009 5:36pm

They've even got the name wrong. Hands Across The Corrib to me implies a bridge of some sort.

I reckon everyone should just go out with shovels and start building it regardless. Get people together one weekend and make a start on it. It'd be quicker.

?Cee?view · 02-07-2009 6:47pm

Anyone hear any update on this? I've seen the pieces in the Advertiser and the Times this morning, but interested to know how it went today in the Commerical Court.

An O'Brolchain apologist (the ex councillor, ex Mayor) was recently saying on another thread that there's no way that this road could now be economically viable. Interesting therefore to see that the N17 CPO costs have now plumetted in just over two years, so if the CPO costs are comparable on this project, now is really the time to get building the bypass while the land is waaay cheaper!

http://www.galwaynews.ie/8015-n17-cpo-land-values-halved

galwayrush · 02-07-2009 6:57pm

Agh, same fecking serial objectors always causing problems.:(

nerophis · 03-07-2009 10:57am

Someone was saying it's not because of bogs- which there must be at least three or maybe even four acres of within Galway County but because there's an area of limestone like the burren in the path. There's a lot less of that sort of stuff and if that's the reason couldn't the NRA just go around that bit of land?

KevR · 03-07-2009 11:12am

nerophis wrote: »

Someone was saying it's not because of bogs- which there must be at least three or maybe even four acres of within Galway County but because there's an area of limestone like the burren in the path. There's a lot less of that sort of stuff and if that's the reason couldn't the NRA just go around that bit of land?

The Western section was rejected by An Bord Pleanala because of some sort of protected bog cotton that would be destroyed. A new route or some sort of solution will have to be found for this section

I think Peter Sweetman is objecting to the Eastern section because there is some special limestone that it might have a slight impact on.
An Bord Pleanala and Galway City and County Councils argue that the impact on the limestone will be very minimal and that the impact would not be nearly big enough to warrant stopping such a vital piece of infrastructure that will improve the quality of life of tens of thousands of people going ahead.

Hands Across the Corrib, from what I gather, basically don't want the road built because they live near it. Extremely selfish? Yes, I think so

?Cee?view · 03-07-2009 11:12am

Of course they could go around it, or go over it - elevate it over the limestone area with minimal damage.

How do Italy (e.g. Rome) or Greece (e.g. Athens) have modern road infrastructures? In both countries I've toured ancient monuments, perfectly preserved, with modern infrastructure built nearby. It seems that its only in Ireland that archaeology, flora and fauna are used as justificiations to stop any development. Surely with a bit of imagination, both can coexist.

In Germany (Heidelberg), there's a road which a particular breed of frog cross for approx. two weeks every year. They have people directing the traffic (letting the frogs) across for those two weeks. No, I'm not making this up - I've seen it and it works. In Ireland, the road just wouldn't be built, and the objectors when they'd succeeded in stopping the road would soon forget the poor frogs

Rant over (for now!)

KevR · 03-07-2009 11:20am

I was thinking that they could maybe build the Western section elevated (up on stilts) and it would destroy only a fraction of the bog cotton then. Not sure how easy or difficult that would be over a bog but I'm sure it could be done.

ronnie3585 · 03-07-2009 12:26pm

Feck the road. I think would should do the same thing as Ogdenville or Northhaverbrook.

There's nothing on earth like a genuine, bona fide, electrified, six car monorail.

nerophis · 03-07-2009 12:36pm

Who'd ever of heard about those places without the monorail?

Robbo · 03-07-2009 1:24pm

Is there a chance the road could bend?

Not on your life my serially objecting friend.

Chris_533976 · 03-07-2009 3:22pm

KevR wrote: »

I was thinking that they could maybe build the Western section elevated (up on stilts) and it would destroy only a fraction of the bog cotton then. Not sure how easy or difficult that would be over a bog but I'm sure it could be done.

Because that would cost an absolute fortune

Chris_533976 · 03-07-2009 3:24pm

What still annoys me more than anything about this whole fiasco is that Hands have only decided to moan about the road, they havent said a word about the free for all sprawl that went on in Knocknacarra, nor would they utter a peep if someone wanted to build an estate on the same Bog Cotton where the Outer Bypass should be.

galwayrush · 03-07-2009 7:14pm

To mr Sweetman, Bog Cotton is nothing like old stained Glass.:rolleyes:

?Cee?view · 04-07-2009 1:03pm

galwayrush wrote: »

To mr Sweetman, Bog Cotton is nothing like old stained Glass.:rolleyes:

What?

galwayrush · 04-07-2009 6:43pm

churchview wrote: »

What?

He made an argument in court that if we had a lot of old stained glass in the county, does that mean that it would be ok to destroy 10% of it, saying that destroying a little of the bog cotton was like destroying something as valuable as the stained glass..:rolleyes:

Chris_533976 · 04-07-2009 9:00pm

Lets not mention the fact that stained grass does not grow.

galwayrush · 04-07-2009 9:33pm

Chris_533976 wrote: »

Lets not mention the fact that stained grass does not grow.

Very good point, Bog Cotton however grows rather easily on our numerous Bogs and is in no way endangered.:rolleyes: Self appointed Serial Objector Sweetman doesn't even live in Galway anymore, just who the feck does he think he represents.

?Cee?view · 08-07-2009 2:53pm

Has anyone heard anything about the current court case? All I can find online is Irish Time's articles from last Thursday and Friday.

JohnCleary · 09-07-2009 4:05am

Tellin ye folks, just build an underground... problem solved!!

?Cee?view · 09-07-2009 9:45am

JohnCleary wrote: »

Tellin ye folks, just build an underground... problem solved!!

There's no way you could do that. Think of the worms? The lesser spotted Irish flatworm is an endangered species which only lives under river beds in the West of Ireland.

KevR · 09-07-2009 9:57am

churchview wrote: »

Has anyone heard anything about the current court case? All I can find online is Irish Time's articles from last Thursday and Friday.

Haven't heard anything come to think of it. How long was the court case supposed to last for? A week?

You would have thought that there would have been more news by now..

?Cee?view · 09-07-2009 9:59am

Is was said that it was going to last six days

snubbleste · 10-07-2009 7:24pm

.

Peter Sweetman has concluded his challenge to the State and An Bord Pleanála over the outer city bypass. Judgement on the hearing has been reserved.
Meanwhile a second action against the Bord began this week by environmental organisation Hands Across The Corrib Ltd, of Ballinfoyle

almasy · 15-07-2009 4:48pm

This bog cotton thing is such a joke. I can't really see why the full by-pass can't go ahead. Are there some influential nimby's living out there who don't want this road running by their properties. I'm sure there are a few exclusive gaffes along the route.

A city needs infrastruture or it will choke. I drove into Dundrum, Dublin to a friends place the other weekend and couldn't believe how painless it was. I live in Westside and it can be struggle getting there at times.

What will happen in Galway is they will wait until the situation becomes completely intolerable with everyone sitting in their cars for hours. Then it will be a case of f*ck this bog cotton and whoevers house is on the route and the job will eventually get done. But why wait until then?

And this notion that you shouldn't build a bridge across a river beside a city becuase it will spoil the view. Gimme a break! If we took that attitude all the time nothing would ever get built. It's like, what a shame they built all that stuff around the Seine - that Paris is so horrible, wouldn't a bunch of fields have been so much better.

happyoutscan · 15-07-2009 5:28pm

Personally I have no problem whatsoever with preservation and agree with it wholeheartedly, especially when considering my complete lack of faith in those in charge of planning these projects.

Bring in the Germans, let them design/plan and then at least the end product may/will justify destroying a percentage of the cotton.

Sponge Bob · 07-11-2012 2:53pm

The 'reasoned opinion' will be issued later this month. This is given by an Advocate General ( a lawyer in the middle not for or against) and the Judges normally follow the reasoned opinion.

The long nightmare may soon be over.

beardybrewer · 07-11-2012 5:35pm

Sponge Bob wrote: »

The 'reasoned opinion' will be issued later this month. This is given by an Advocate General ( a lawyer in the middle not for or against) and the Judges normally follow the reasoned opinion.

The long nightmare may soon be over.

Sorry, I might have missed a step. Do we have an idea what way the Advocate General will say?

Or are you saying, for better or worse, at least we'll have an answer?

Sponge Bob · 07-11-2012 7:10pm

No. But unless they torpedo the entire EIS process it should mean a favourable judgement is perhaps 3 months away at most.

galwayrush · 08-11-2012 9:54am

What a terrible waste of time and money this serial objector caused.

nuac · 08-11-2012 12:08pm

galwayrush wrote: »

What a terrible waste of time and money this serial objector caused.

Indeed, and not for the first time.

afaik in this case the issue was the integrity of the limestone structure. There is lots of limestone in that area, stretching up into South Mayo.

N ot much consideration to risk to human life on inferior roads

antoobrien · 08-11-2012 12:17pm

nuac wrote: »

Indeed, and not for the first time.

afaik in this case the issue was the integrity of the limestone structure. There is lots of limestone in that area, stretching up into South Mayo.

Which makes the suggestions of tunnels (made earlier) even more laughable. Besides, the initial work on the design ruled it out of hand on both the environmental impact and cost basis.

It should be pointed out that the section through the bogs was rejected by ABP and is part of the court case.

Sponge Bob · 08-11-2012 12:18pm

If anyone wants to personally meet the great man he will be objecting to the new road west of Oughterard in a fortnight or so.

http://www.galwaynews.ie/28690-oral-hearing-connemara-greenway-project-month

An Bord Pleanala has organised the oral hearing on the proposed route to take place at the Clifden station house from the 27th to 29th of this month

Private Joker · 08-11-2012 12:28pm

Sponge Bob wrote: »

If anyone wants to personally meet the great man he will be objecting to the new road west of Oughterard in a fortnight or so.

http://www.galwaynews.ie/28690-oral-hearing-connemara-greenway-project-month

Its actually the greenway project( cycle track/walkway) and not a road. but yeah, all the serial objectors should be there. On a side note some of the connemara Councillors are in brussels this week having talks about the R336 .

buzz11 · 08-11-2012 12:41pm

galwayrush wrote: »

What a terrible waste of time and money this serial objector caused.

I'm not familiar with who or what group was objecting...have you a link that would give more info?

Sponge Bob · 08-11-2012 12:54pm

Private Joker wrote: »

Its actually the greenway project( cycle track/walkway) and not a road. but yeah, all the serial objectors should be there.

Sorry you are right, the N59 Road ( Maam Cross to Oughterard) will be the subject of a SEPARATE Oral Hearing some time next year. He was also whining about the Moycullen Bypass 6 months back. > submissions section P38 of 74.

antoobrien · 08-11-2012 1:25pm

buzz11 wrote: »

I'm not familiar with who or what group was objecting...have you a link that would give more info?

Go to the courts service webpage and search for Peter Sweetman.

Hands across the Corrib are supposedly a local action group, last I heard of them they had a registered a Ltd company based out of Kildare. Their website is not currently reachable.

There were three cases brought to the high court, all of which were rejected, one of which was appealed to the supreme court.

This one -
http://www.courts.ie/judgments.nsf/6681dee4565ecf2c80256e7e0052005b/18cdda1ceeb7a247802577490032adce?OpenDocument&Highlight=0,Sweetman - was appealed to the supreme court on grounds that I have been unable to find.

The hands across the corrib appear was rejected beucase it was the same case as the one listed above: http://www.courts.ie/judgments.nsf/6681dee4565ecf2c80256e7e0052005b/9a81d3f34c4138d180257735004b5053?OpenDocument&Highlight=0,Sweetman

and sweetmans earlier case was also dismissed:
http://www.courts.ie/judgments.nsf/6681dee4565ecf2c80256e7e0052005b/8c6cad3040236e72802575b3003e7692?OpenDocument&Highlight=0,Sweetman

The serial objector has also brought court cases regarding the development of the N18 the planning of the New Ross Bypass and numerous other projects.

Outer City Bypass

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