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2013 NFL DRAFT

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    #92
    nerd69
    Registered Users Posts: 9,670 ✭✭✭nerd69


    Paully D wrote: »
    Matt Miller has his QB's ranked as below:

    1) Geno Smith
    2) Tyler Wilson
    3) Tyler Bray

    He says Barkley and Jones are overrated by the highlight-media and that Barkley is just a system QB.

    https://twitter.com/nfldraftscout

    barkleys big issue seems to be arm strength apparently its pathetic


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    #93
    davyjose
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,287 ✭✭✭davyjose


    nerd69 wrote: »
    barkleys big issue seems to be arm strength apparently its pathetic

    They said that about Luck too. Luck has a freaking cannon. I'm not convinced that's Barkley's issue. We'll see. As eagle has pointed out, he hasn't had a great O line. We'll see. On 2011 form he can be beat good NFL QB. On this years form... Not so much.


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    #94
    Syferus
    Registered Users Posts: 5,965 ✭✭✭Syferus


    I don't know many sensible people who said Luck had a weak arm. The general perception was that while he didn't have a Jay Culter arm he could make all the throws a potentially elite QB needed to be able to make. Barkley's numbers passing father than 20 yards have been poor but the main problem is how poor his range and accuracy is on the move or when he rolls out. He just doesn't deal with pressure well enough to make up for not having a canon arm.

    The likes of Andy Dalton have shown you don't need a big arm coming out of college to be a professional QB but let's not kid ourselves into thinking it won't be a big part of any stock drop Barkley experiences.


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    #95
    davyjose
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,287 ✭✭✭davyjose


    Syferus wrote: »
    I don't know many sensible people who said Luck had a weak arm. The general perception was that while he didn't have a Jay Culter arm he could make all the throws a potentially elite QB needed to be able to make. Barkley's numbers passing father than 20 yards have been poor but the main problem is how poor his range and accuracy is on the move or when he rolls out. He just doesn't deal with pressure well enough to make up for not having a canon arm.

    The likes of Andy Dalton have shown you don't need a big arm coming out of college to be a professional QB but let's not kid ourselves into thinking it won't be a big part of any stock drop Barkley experiences.
    Maybe not sensible, but there were lots of them, most prominent was former Super Bowl MVP Phil Simms.


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    #96
    HigginsJ
    Registered Users Posts: 7,317 ✭✭✭HigginsJ


    Where do people see Mant'i Teo being drafted.

    Mel Kiper is currently predicting the Chiefs to take him No.1 overall & the mock draft on walterfootball.com this week that had him going 4th overall to the Browns.

    Now don't get me wrong, he is obviously an excellent player but this seems very high for an inside LB. There is alot of pass rushing talent available in the Top 10 this year along with 2 potential All-pro DT's & OT's

    Personally I would see him going around 10th(similar to Kuechley last year) but anything higher than that would surprise me.


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    #97
    nerd69
    Registered Users Posts: 9,670 ✭✭✭nerd69


    HigginsJ wrote: »
    Where do people see Mant'i Teo being drafted.

    Mel Kiper is currently predicting the Chiefs to take him No.1 overall & the mock draft on walterfootball.com this week that had him going 4th overall to the Browns.

    Now don't get me wrong, he is obviously an excellent player but this seems very high for an inside LB. There is alot of pass rushing talent available in the Top 10 this year along with 2 potential All-pro DT's & OT's

    Personally I would see him going around 10th(similar to Kuechley last year) but anything higher than that would surprise me.

    ya id be surprised with no 1 but people are starting to compare him to ray lewis if that talk gets going someone will get carried away

    a lot can happen still with the interviews and the inevitable workout warriors at the combine but i think hell go top 5-6


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    #98
    davyjose
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,287 ✭✭✭davyjose


    He'll go top 10 IMO. The kid is special; he consistently makes plays, he's fast and has great anticipation.
    If he drops into the 20s, I'd love to see Indy pick him up. He won't though. Even without the hype, he's a top 20 pick, any year.


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    #99
    nerd69
    Registered Users Posts: 9,670 ✭✭✭nerd69


    no way hes gona be there that late davy i think hes one of the safest picks in this years draft he will be a good player just how good if he goes top 5 he needs to be a ray lewis,patrick willis type


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    #100
    OAOB
    Registered Users Posts: 1,286 ✭✭✭OAOB


    I think he'll be top 5 because he has all the skills to be great but as a team leader and a high character guy he excels, owners and GMs would love to have him as a face of the franchise.
    I've seen him mocked to the Raiders a few times, that to me would seem like the worse fit possible for him. (Chargers fan so i'm biased)


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    #101
    taidghbaby
    Registered Users Posts: 2,746 ✭✭✭taidghbaby


    Mathieu is entering the draft anyway! God only knows where he'll be taking if he is! I'm not sure about him as a CB (size primarily against the big WR's in the league) to be honest, but he makes a lot of big plays so he might be more suited to a Free Safety and punt returner role in the NFL!


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    #102
    HigginsJ
    Registered Users Posts: 7,317 ✭✭✭HigginsJ


    taidghbaby wrote: »
    Mathieu is entering the draft anyway! God only knows where he'll be taking if he is! I'm not sure about him as a CB (size primarily against the big WR's in the league) to be honest, but he makes a lot of big plays so he might be more suited to a Free Safety and punt returner role in the NFL!

    I know we wont draft him but would love if we did. Could see Fewell scheming him to get plenty of big play chances.

    I presume he will go undrafted with everything that has gone on


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    #103
    nerd69
    Registered Users Posts: 9,670 ✭✭✭nerd69


    If he cops on he could be a great player but he's the most troublesome prospect I remember in years possibly not worth tge hassle


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    #104
    OAOB
    Registered Users Posts: 1,286 ✭✭✭OAOB


    He seems too small to me, wouldn't like to see him matched up with Calvin Johnson or any of the other big WRs. Great ball hawking skills but i think he'd give up the big play too. Off season issues means he'll likely go undrafted but i do think he'll make a roster


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    #105
    D3PO
    Registered Users Posts: 7,879 ✭✭✭D3PO


    OAOB wrote: »
    He seems too small to me, wouldn't like to see him matched up with Calvin Johnson or any of the other big WRs. Great ball hawking skills but i think he'd give up the big play too. Off season issues means he'll likely go undrafted but i do think he'll make a roster


    a small ball hawker sounds like Asante Samuel to me and he aint had too bad of an NFL career ;)

    personally id also look to play him free safety in the NFL, hes got skills but a serious personality question mark.


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    #106
    Syferus
    Registered Users Posts: 5,965 ✭✭✭Syferus


    The Chiefs are stupid enough to take him #1 with their black hole at QB, anyways.


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    #107
    Chucky the tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    OAOB wrote: »
    I think he'll be top 5 because he has all the skills to be great but as a team leader and a high character guy he excels, owners and GMs would love to have him as a face of the franchise.
    I've seen him mocked to the Raiders a few times, that to me would seem like the worse fit possible for him. (Chargers fan so i'm biased)


    I'd vomit if we took Teo.


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    #108
    OAOB
    Registered Users Posts: 1,286 ✭✭✭OAOB


    Chucky the tree wrote: »
    I'd vomit if we took Teo.

    Why? Think its too high or just not the biggest need


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    #109
    Chucky the tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    OAOB wrote: »
    Why? Think its too high or just not the biggest need


    Both. MLB's are over-rated. A MLB is rarely a consistently game changer in terms of sacks, ints etc. If you're going top 5 I want a guy who can consistently make big plays, I think due to the nature of the position MLB never really do that.


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    #110
    D3PO
    Registered Users Posts: 7,879 ✭✭✭D3PO


    Chucky the tree wrote: »
    Both. MLB's are over-rated. A MLB is rarely a consistently game changer in terms of sacks, ints etc. If you're going top 5 I want a guy who can consistently make big plays, I think due to the nature of the position MLB never really do that.

    Thats a ludacris comment. How can the MLB position be over rated :rolleyes: A good MLB is a huge asset to any defense. Often they can make a weak D Line look decent by covering their asses big time in the run game and with TE's becoming more and more important in the passing game these days a MLB who can cover in the passing game is huge.

    Im not saying Teo should go top 5 but to say the MLB position is overrated is crazy.


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    #111
    Chucky the tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    D3PO wrote: »
    Thats a ludacris comment. How can the MLB position be over rated :rolleyes: A good MLB is a huge asset to any defense. Often they can make a weak D Line look decent by covering their asses big time in the run game and with TE's becoming more and more important in the passing game these days a MLB who can cover in the passing game is huge.

    Im not saying Teo should go top 5 but to say the MLB position is overrated is crazy.



    Well I was talking in terms of the draft. A MLB should never be drafted in the top 10 imo. A good kicker is a huge asset to a team, doesn't mean you should draft one top 5 either. At the end of the day there is no MLB in the league I'd want covering Gronk, give me a safety all day. The same with other TE's. In terms of positional importance a MLB is down near the bottom.


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    #112
    matthew8
    Registered Users Posts: 9,599 ✭✭✭matthew8


    For me MLB is the QB of the defense. He's involved in more plays than anyone.


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    #113
    taidghbaby
    Registered Users Posts: 2,746 ✭✭✭taidghbaby


    Pass rushers are more valued in the draft than MLB's! Teo is a special talent but he could slip out of the top 10 IMO!

    The NFL is nearly all about throwing the ball these days so QB's, LT's and pass rushers will be more valued than Inside linebackers, running backs and run blockers!


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    #114
    Syferus
    Registered Users Posts: 5,965 ✭✭✭Syferus


    Teams will fall in love with his 'intangelibles' and it only takes one team tI put his stock sky-high. I can't see him lower than top 5 unless he does something other than be the heartbeat of the ND defense.


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    #115
    nerd69
    Registered Users Posts: 9,670 ✭✭✭nerd69


    Chucky the tree wrote: »



    Well I was talking in terms of the draft. A MLB should never be drafted in the top 10 imo. A good kicker is a huge asset to a team, doesn't mean you should draft one top 5 either. At the end of the day there is no MLB in the league I'd want covering Gronk, give me a safety all day. The same with other TE's. In terms of positional importance a MLB is down near the bottom.
    Ed reed is one of the greatest cover safety's ever but ask the ravens who's been more important to them him or ray Lewis


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    #116
    D3PO
    Registered Users Posts: 7,879 ✭✭✭D3PO


    Chucky the tree wrote: »
    Well I was talking in terms of the draft. A MLB should never be drafted in the top 10 imo. A good kicker is a huge asset to a team, doesn't mean you should draft one top 5 either. At the end of the day there is no MLB in the league I'd want covering Gronk, give me a safety all day. The same with other TE's. In terms of positional importance a MLB is down near the bottom.


    Look at the best defenses in the NFL. They all have elite tallents at MLB. Ray Lewis, Brian Urlacher, Patrick Willis, thats not a coincidence.

    look at the difference a mediocre defense like the Falcons this year. Weatherspoon comes back from injury and all of a sudden they are far more solid.

    look at how much Houston are stuggling without Cushing.

    Look at last years Eagles "dream team" no MLB and they were destroyed as a result of it despite having all this "elite" tallent on both sides of the ball.

    To say a MLB is down near the bottom in positional importance is off the mark. A team should always draft on need or on the best thats left on the board. To ignore somebody due to their position and draft elsewhere is a bad move by any front office that does it IMO.

    In theory the Browns shouldnt have drafted Richardson so high last year given hes a RB, but they saW him as a talent and took him. You cant argue with that logic


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    #117
    HigginsJ
    Registered Users Posts: 7,317 ✭✭✭HigginsJ


    D3PO wrote: »
    Look at last years Eagles "dream team" no MLB and they were destroyed as a result of it despite having all this "elite" tallent on both sides of the ball.

    Yea that's why they were poor :rolleyes:

    I agree that MLB will be down list of priorities for most teams. QB's, Pass-rushers and OT's are way more important in the current game.

    On the defensive side lesser talents like Montgomery, Mingo, Damantre Moore will merit consideration to be taken before him because of the positions they play.

    Talent wise he is probably top 5 with Jarvis Jones, Star Lotulelei, Luke Joeckel and Dee Milliner


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    #118
    Chucky the tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    D3PO wrote: »
    Look at the best defenses in the NFL. They all have elite tallents at MLB. Ray Lewis, Brian Urlacher, Patrick Willis, thats not a coincidence.

    look at the difference a mediocre defense like the Falcons this year. Weatherspoon comes back from injury and all of a sudden they are far more solid.

    look at how much Houston are stuggling without Cushing.

    Look at last years Eagles "dream team" no MLB and they were destroyed as a result of it despite having all this "elite" tallent on both sides of the ball.

    To say a MLB is down near the bottom in positional importance is off the mark. A team should always draft on need or on the best thats left on the board. To ignore somebody due to their position and draft elsewhere is a bad move by any front office that does it IMO.

    In theory the Browns shouldnt have drafted Richardson so high last year given hes a RB, but they saW him as a talent and took him. You cant argue with that logic


    Texan have the best D in the league, who's been their ILB for the year? Prime example as they lost their best ILB and people thought they would struggle but they have still been great. Watt is far more important to that team. I'd also argue Aldon Smith is far more important to the 49ers success. When the Giants won their superbowls they did it because of their defense mainly, and it wasn't due to their MLB. My basic point was that if given the choice between elite pass rusher or elite MLB I'm taking the pass rusher all the time.


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    #119
    HigginsJ
    Registered Users Posts: 7,317 ✭✭✭HigginsJ


    Chucky the tree wrote: »
    When the Giants won their superbowls they did it because of their defense mainly, and it wasn't due to their MLB.

    Good aul Chase Blackburn. Possibly the least athletic player in football.


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    #120
    D3PO
    Registered Users Posts: 7,879 ✭✭✭D3PO


    HigginsJ wrote: »
    Good aul Chase Blackburn. Possibly the least athletic player in football.

    na Jamarcus Russell wins that category :P on a serioius note though he arguably make the most critical play of the superbowl ;)

    dont get me wrong lads im not saying QB Oline or Pass Rush talent shouldnt be hovered up if elite. Im not turning down an Andrew Luck or Von Miller for a Manti Teo Im just saying that to dismiss MLB talent for a middle of the road QB,DE or OT would be a poor decision by any front office so that should mean he is a top 10 draft pick.


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    #121
    davyjose
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,287 ✭✭✭davyjose


    That's crazy. A player is worth what he's worth. Nobody blinked when a Left tackle and Defensive end went ahead of Matt Ryan in the 2008 draft. If a guy is an absolute monster at a position, and you have a need, then you'd be crazy to pass him up. Baltimore would not have been the defensive powerhouse that they have been over the last 15 years without Lewis, and if the '96 draft had a do-over, he'd be first or second pick, no question.

    The fact is, there aren't many MLB's like Te'o that come around very often. And there aren't many "sure things" in football. Pass him up because he's merely a MLB all you want, that's fine... someone else will get him, and make you regret it for the next decade.


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