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Information on soldiers in WW1

13

Comments

  • #102
    arnhem44
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,368 ✭✭✭arnhem44


    There is every possible chance that this record is also on Ancestry,if it is and he served for any lenght of time it will list where he was and how long he was at each place.


  • #103
    johnny_doyle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,021 ✭✭✭johnny_doyle


    Curiousgal wrote: »
    Hi - I'm back again too!

    It seems James A. Giltrap's military career includes a 5th discharge...

    After finding out so much about the end of his military career and life with your invaluable help, I've now come across two letters he sent to his family in 1892 from Karachi (as a young man of 23), where he was serving in the 2nd Batallion of the Royal Dublin Fusiliers. He's listed as Private Giltrap, No. 4078 F. Co. on one letter, and G. Co. on the other. He was clearly getting himself into all sorts of trouble and ending up either confined to barracks or ill in hospital. I would love to access his record as I'd love to know if he ultimately served in the Boer War, as I found a book on same published in 1901 in the attic with his letters, which I'm guessing belonged to him.

    I've searched for a current website run by the Royal Dublin Fusiliers, to see if they have records dating back to the 1890s, but I haven't found any obvious starting point for this. If it isn't too much to ask for your assistance on this again, would you know where best I could find out?

    Thanks so much...

    this chap just gets more and more interesting.


  • #104
    johnny_doyle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,021 ✭✭✭johnny_doyle


    Dazzler88 wrote: »
    Hey guys..im back looking for more help.If anyone has access to Ancestry,would you be able to check for the following:

    Bernard Kerrigan
    Tawnmachugh,
    Manorhamilton,
    Co.Leitrim

    Thats all the information I have on him.

    not seeing anything that ties all the above to one man.

    There is a family tree with a Bernard Kerrigan born 1882 in Leitrim; father Hugh.


  • #105
    Curiousgal
    Registered Users Posts: 32 ✭Curiousgal


    Yeah... he seems to have been a troubled soul alright in his youth, admitting himself he didn't know what made him do the things he did that got him into trouble - one punishment being more than 20 days confined to barracks in searing heat, armed with bucket and dung fork! However, he seems to have got himself together in his more mature years :-)

    Thanks Arnhem44 for the tip re Ancestry. I subscribed but can only find military records relating to WWI. The Royal Dublin Fusiliers web sites I have found also relate only to records of soldiers from WWI. I see that they are giving a talk in Collins Barracks on 22nd May as part of the Bealtaine Festival, to help people trace soldiers from their regiment in WWI. I might pop along and see if they know about records from the turn of the century, though at this stage I'm almost worried about what I'll find out next!


  • #106
    arnhem44
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,368 ✭✭✭arnhem44


    Shame he did not live long enough to draw his Army pension,this would of linked his WW1 record to his previous record,is there any entry on his WW1 record showing a different number or an abbreviated name for a different regiment?,the entries on these records can sometimes be all over the place and often hard to read.


  • #107
    Curiousgal
    Registered Users Posts: 32 ✭Curiousgal


    Thanks, Arnhem44 - James Giltrap was in so many regiments... - but I made a mistake with one of them. I misread A.S.C. for A.P.C., so his last regiment was actually the Army Service Corps and it states on his death cert that he was a pensioner of the A.S.C. No. 877041, so maybe he was receiving a pension. Through unexpectedly finding other family connections on Ancestry, I now believe that a man who featured in both war photos with James was in fact his brother-in-law who also served in the Army Service Corps called Frederick William Jackson (in the photo link, directly left of the Red Cross sign on the train). According to his medal cards, he was awarded a Silver War Badge, which may have been what prompted James to apply for one, although he was sadly not successful.

    If Johnny Doyle is still following this thread, I wonder would you mind doing me one last favour?! Would you mind looking up your 1916 Rebellion Handbook to see if a Freddy (Frederick William) Jackson or William (George A.) Jackson were mentioned at all, as James was?

    I'd be so grateful.... - thanks!!


  • #108
    johnny_doyle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,021 ✭✭✭johnny_doyle


    had a look at the 1916 Rebellion book but couldn't find anything. There is a reference to a Mrs Jackson at 11 Bushy Park Road whose house became a temporary hospital but looking at the 1911 census she appears to be from Australia and has no children listed.

    Not every name is indexed so I'll have another look through to see if I stumble upon anything re the Jacksons.


  • #109
    Curiousgal
    Registered Users Posts: 32 ✭Curiousgal


    Thanks, Johnny - I really appreciate your help!

    I think Freddy Jackson may have been in France during 1916 but it was worth a try.

    Thank you!


  • #110
    Curiousgal
    Registered Users Posts: 32 ✭Curiousgal


    Hi - I'm back with another request!

    I have a medal card for Private Jack Sullivan (born 1898 from Dublin) but it doesn't give dates or place of action. I know he was badly injured which would explain his changing from the Royal irish Fusiliers to the Royal Defence Corps but would be interested in what happened and where he was located with both regiments. Can anyone help?!

    Royal Irish Fusiliers - Regiment No. 3795

    Royal Defence Corps 73206

    He received a Victory Medal and British Medal. Remarks on his medal card state: "Ret'd (1743.KR) 7956 Adt

    Sev (?) B List

    Thanks so much...


  • #111
    R.Dub.Fusilier
    Closed Accounts Posts: 588 ✭✭✭R.Dub.Fusilier


    had a look at ancestry and only 1 Jack Sullivan with that number and regiment comes up.

    details- says he was born in 1889 ,married to Sarah Jane Sullivan of Oakfield St Belfast . went to France 15-7-15 until 30-5-16 , he would have been entitled to the 1914/1915 star trio if this is the case,and seems to have been discharged in 1918, released for ship building. offical letter dated 1934 asking about his later death. another states he died 29-10-19.
    he had 3 tattoos a snake , South Africa and Cheshire regiment badge, which would suggest he served with that regiment in the Boer War.
    there is about 30 pages of info but am finding them hard to read some of them.
    also gives 10 Croft Terrace Colne, Lancashire as an address.

    is he a relative of yours?


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  • #112
    Curiousgal
    Registered Users Posts: 32 ✭Curiousgal


    Thanks for that info R.Dub.Fusilier,

    that guy sounds fascinating! Unfortunately, I don't think he is the Jack Sullivan I'm looking for. I must have the wrong medal card if the Regiment numbers match up with the man you found on Ancestry.

    Jack Sullivan is a relative of a friend of mine. He was only 16 years old when war broke out in 1914, so I'm assuming he wouldn't have served before 1916. He was irish, from Dublin, so I thought that the Royal Irish Fusiliers would be a likely regiment for an Irish man.

    He lost his leg but survived the war and worked in Dublin afterwards.

    Thanks so much for your help though!


  • #113
    johnny_doyle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,021 ✭✭✭johnny_doyle


    Curiousgal wrote: »
    Hi - I'm back with another request!

    I have a medal card for Private Jack Sullivan (born 1898 from Dublin) but it doesn't give dates or place of action. I know he was badly injured which would explain his changing from the Royal irish Fusiliers to the Royal Defence Corps but would be interested in what happened and where he was located with both regiments. Can anyone help?!

    Royal Irish Fusiliers - Regiment No. 3795

    Royal Defence Corps 73206

    He received a Victory Medal and British Medal. Remarks on his medal card state: "Ret'd (1743.KR) 7956 Adt

    Sev (?) B List

    Thanks so much...

    Sev (?) B List is SWB List and is a pointer to the Silver War Badge rolls held at the National Archives in London.

    Any other info re your Jack Sullivan that would help track him down? Do you have his records for the 1901/11 census?


  • #114
    Ponster
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,912 Mod ✭✭✭✭Ponster


    Curiousgal wrote: »
    so I thought that the Royal Irish Fusiliers would be a likely regiment for an Irish man.

    I have found often that a lot was decided on where the person signed up and what the need was for at that particular time.


    So in fact all we know is that his name was Jack Sullivan and he was born in 1898 in Dublin. He was injured but survived the war. Is that right ?


  • #115
    Curiousgal
    Registered Users Posts: 32 ✭Curiousgal


    Hi Johnny and Ponster!

    Thanks for the interest - this is what I know about Jack Sullivan:

    "Jack Sullivan worked in the Inchicore works making trams and buses. Ex British Army, lost his leg from the knee down in the 14-18 war. He lived in Larkfield Road (in Harold's Cross/Kimmage)."

    In the 1911 Census, he is living in Mark's Court, Trinity Ward, Dublin, aged 13 with his mother Catherine and others named Stone, Lloyd, Byrne.

    Silver War Badge would definitely make sense - seems I have the wrong medal card though...


  • #116
    johnny_doyle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,021 ✭✭✭johnny_doyle


    he's listed as John in the 1901 census

    http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Trinity/Mark_s_Court/1311060/

    and as John for his baptism

    http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/5a94931214783

    I've had a quick look at service records and pension records and still not finding a match yet.

    The brother Daniel appears with Suillivan as his surname

    http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/97b9531221076


  • #117
    johnny_doyle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,021 ✭✭✭johnny_doyle


    found a George Kelly of Mark's Court, Dublin b1898 who joined up in 1916

    Name:George Kelly
    Estimated birth year:abt 1898
    Age at Enlistment:18
    Residence:11 Marks Court, Off Marks St Dublin
    Document Year:1916
    Regimental Number:26077
    Regiment Name:Royal Irish Regiment

    http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Trinity_Ward/Mark_s_Court/89872/

    thought perhaps they might have joined up into the Royal Irish Regiment together and had similar numbers but no joy there.


  • #118
    Curiousgal
    Registered Users Posts: 32 ✭Curiousgal


    johnny_doyle wrote: »
    he's listed as John in the 1901 census

    Hi Johnny,

    thanks for all that information. It would make sense for him to have signed up with a neighbour, particularly if they were the same age.

    Am I definitely wrong about the medal card Reg. No. 3795 - it just seems it would fit with the Silver War Badge, and changing from Royal Irish Fusiliers to Royal Defence Corps if he couldn't fight because of his injury?

    thanks for all your help so far - it's much appreciated.


  • #119
    arnhem44
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,368 ✭✭✭arnhem44


    The Royal Defence Corps weren't formed till 1917 and these were made up of men who had become to old for front line duties or who had been wounded,these men were a full time force.Personally I can't see how a soldier who had lost a leg in the war be still in service,an injury like this would of meant a discharge at minimum unless the loss of his lower leg came as a result of the injury at a later stage.


  • #120
    johnny_doyle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,021 ✭✭✭johnny_doyle


    Curiousgal wrote: »
    johnny_doyle wrote: »
    he's listed as John in the 1901 census

    Hi Johnny,

    thanks for all that information. It would make sense for him to have signed up with a neighbour, particularly if they were the same age.

    Am I definitely wrong about the medal card Reg. No. 3795 - it just seems it would fit with the Silver War Badge, and changing from Royal Irish Fusiliers to Royal Defence Corps if he couldn't fight because of his injury?

    thanks for all your help so far - it's much appreciated.

    are there any medals you know of that belonged to him still with anyone in the family? They would have his service number and unit inscribed.


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  • #121
    Curiousgal
    Registered Users Posts: 32 ✭Curiousgal


    That's interesting about the Royal Defence Corps.

    I'll try and find out when he lost his leg and I'll ask the family if any medals still exist - thanks guys!


  • #122
    R0C
    Registered Users Posts: 370 ✭✭R0C


    I'm looking for info on a family member, Patrick Joesph (Paddy) Jennings, born in Claremorris, County Mayo in 1883, joined the Connaught Rangers and was killed in India in I believe 1901 though I see he is listed in the 1901 census so he may have been killed up to 1903.

    I'm unable to gather any further information on him, and have no idea where to look. I am currently trying to compile a family tree on ancestry.co.uk so would like to gather this information.

    I know this is before the Great War, but I see mentions of the Connaught Rangers in this thread already so perhaps someone could point me in the right direction?

    Thank you.


  • #123
    R.Dub.Fusilier
    Closed Accounts Posts: 588 ✭✭✭R.Dub.Fusilier


    R0C wrote: »
    I'm looking for info on a family member, Patrick Joesph (Paddy) Jennings, born in Claremorris, County Mayo in 1883, joined the Connaught Rangers and was killed in India in I believe 1901 though I see he is listed in the 1901 census so he may have been killed up to 1903.

    I know this is before the Great War, but I see mentions of the Connaught Rangers in this thread already so perhaps someone could point me in the right direction?

    Thank you.

    there is no P Jennings of the Connaughts listed as casualty for Boer War so you might be able to rule that out. there is service records for a patrick jennings from church street claremorris but they are from 1887 and this PJ was 25 at the time, could this be a relative of the above?


  • #124
    R0C
    Registered Users Posts: 370 ✭✭R0C


    R.Dub.Fusilier wrote: »
    there is no P Jennings of the Connaughts listed as casualty for Boer War so you might be able to rule that out. there is service records for a patrick jennings from church street claremorris but they are from 1887 and this PJ was 25 at the time, could this be a relative of the above?


    Thanks for the quick response!

    It very well could be a relation, but I'm afraid I don't have the genealogy to be sure at the moment. I'll have to look deeper into that.

    The 1901 Census has the Patrick I'm searching for listed at James Street, Claremorris. I have a photo of him which perhaps I can attach? Maybe the uniform could give more clues as to the year, or if this definitely is a Connaught Rangers uniform as I am only going by clues from my elderly Grandmother.

    c6b68f0f-adc8-461b-9ad0-875a027ee4cb-0.jpg


  • #125
    R0C
    Registered Users Posts: 370 ✭✭R0C


    I've just spoken to my Grandmother on this again and she *thinks* he was around 18 when he died, and he died in India, and as far as she knew he was in the Connaught Rangers. That's really all the information we have. So it is very possible he died later than 1901, he may have been early 20s when he died, so I guess I need to look into anyone of that name during those years in India.


  • #126
    arnhem44
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,368 ✭✭✭arnhem44


    The hat badge is the giveaway here,it looks like a Munster Fusiliers badge or possibly Dublin Fusiliers and most certainly without a doubt it is not a Connaught Rangers badge so he may in fact of been in a different regiment or maybe served in more than one regiment.


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  • #127
    R0C
    Registered Users Posts: 370 ✭✭R0C


    arnhem44 wrote: »
    The hat badge is the giveaway here,it looks like a Munster Fusiliers badge or possibly Dublin Fusiliers and most certainly without a doubt it is not a Connaught Rangers badge so he may in fact of been in a different regiment or maybe served in more than one regiment.

    I am wondering now if my Grandmother's info may be confused with another member of the family who WAS in the Connaught Rangers, perhaps this Patrick Jennings that R.Dub.Fusilier has found listed. It's a small town so it's very likely they are of the same family.

    I do notice what looks like a horse whip under this Patrick's arm in the picture above.

    My Grandmother still tells me that he was killed in India. Unfortunately I don't have any other living source to give me information.

    Hopefully someone will be able to supply more info based on the uniform.

    Thanks for your help.


  • #128
    brianthebard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,165 ✭✭✭✭brianthebard


    If he was in the connacht rangers you could get in touch with the galway museum, they have had exhibitions about the rangers in the recent past and I know of one guy whos M.Litt was about the Rangers and who works/helps out at the museum, so there might be some information to be found there. That's a long shot though.


  • #129
    R.Dub.Fusilier
    Closed Accounts Posts: 588 ✭✭✭R.Dub.Fusilier


    arnhem44 wrote: »
    The hat badge is the giveaway here,it looks like a Munster Fusiliers badge or possibly Dublin Fusiliers and most certainly without a doubt it is not a Connaught Rangers badge so he may in fact of been in a different regiment or maybe served in more than one regiment.

    the cap badge is the munsters but as you said he could have served in one or more regiments. and it was not un-common for fathers sons ect to follow each other into a regiment like the Connaught Rangers.


  • #130
    johnny_doyle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,021 ✭✭✭johnny_doyle


    possibly your man

    Name:Patrick Jennings
    Birth Place:Claremorris
    Residence:Claremorris
    Death Date:6 Oct 1918
    Death Location:India
    Enlistment Location:Claremorris
    Rank:A/L/Corporal
    Regiment:Corps of Military Police
    Battalion:Foot Branch
    Number P/11737
    Type of Casualty Died
    Theatre of War:Asiatic Theatres
    Comments:Formerly 4/5907, Connaught Rangers.

    http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=1481418


  • #131
    johnny_doyle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,021 ✭✭✭johnny_doyle


    his service record show him as 4/5967; enlisted Nov 1915. Next of kin Miss Maggie Jennings, Church St, Claremorris. A letter from William Jennings care of Patrick Crowley enquires about a will and the deceased belongings and mentions that the parents are deceased. Mentions a brother in the army and another killed in the war. Letter from a sister Mrs Foster(?)


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  • #132
    R0C
    Registered Users Posts: 370 ✭✭R0C


    Oh, I missed the updated replies to this thread, that definitely seems to be our guy, the other names match up. Thank you so much!

    I'll do some more research to follow this up.


  • #133
    R0C
    Registered Users Posts: 370 ✭✭R0C


    R.Dub.Fusilier wrote: »
    the cap badge is the munsters but as you said he could have served in one or more regiments. and it was not un-common for fathers sons ect to follow each other into a regiment like the Connaught Rangers.

    Thanks for the info, would you be able to recommend to me a resource or place I could post pictures of several other uniforms where badges are visible?

    I'm going back through our old family photos and there are pictures of many family members in uniform, but I have no idea what regiments they belonged to or when they were in the service.


  • #134
    R.Dub.Fusilier
    Closed Accounts Posts: 588 ✭✭✭R.Dub.Fusilier


    R0C wrote: »
    Thanks for the info, would you be able to recommend to me a resource or place I could post pictures of several other uniforms where badges are visible?

    I'm going back through our old family photos and there are pictures of many family members in uniform, but I have no idea what regiments they belonged to or when they were in the service.

    you should post them up here. there are some posters here who have a wide range of knowledge on all things military and will , i'm sure, be willing to help you.


  • #135
    R0C
    Registered Users Posts: 370 ✭✭R0C


    Okay, great, well for now here's another one of William Jennings with what looks to me like a slightly different uniform.

    5ef618d2-c3eb-4dfd-b99b-123fc4f4c4e7-0.jpg

    This seems to be the other half of the same picture, the hat is on view here.

    3d5b7a30-5949-4cbe-bb8c-b3dc2b111b27-0.jpg

    Can anyone tell me what this is?

    Thanks :)


  • #136
    R.Dub.Fusilier
    Closed Accounts Posts: 588 ✭✭✭R.Dub.Fusilier


    chances are the top photo is Munster Fusiliers and the bottom one is the Munsters. great photos by the way.


  • #137
    R0C
    Registered Users Posts: 370 ✭✭R0C


    Thank you, R.Dub.Fusilier.

    Here is another one, but this is from WWII I believe so perhaps I should post this elsewhere.


    e9b5698d-93b9-40d8-8e52-1ff242c9b319-0.jpg


  • #138
    FiSe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 821 ✭✭✭FiSe


    Is this an US Army uniform?


  • #139
    R0C
    Registered Users Posts: 370 ✭✭R0C


    I don't know, all I know is they grew up and married in their home county of Mayo and were still pictured there in the late 30s/early 1940s, after that I'm not sure whether they went to the UK or US. This picture would've been taken in the 40s though so most likely has to be WWII.

    Again, unfortunately no-one seems to remember any other information.


  • #140
    R0C
    Registered Users Posts: 370 ✭✭R0C


    I've made a separate thread here for some of my WWII pictures which I'm seeking identification on. :)


  • #141
    elverstown
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46 ✭elverstown


    Hi all,
    I have read this thread a few times and I find it very interisting, re. James giltrap, would like to be able to contact curiousgal, but havent enough posts yet. My first cousins twice removed, richard and george graham Giltrap, born c.1894 & 1896, Lucan, may have been in the army, how do I check? have a family note that one of them died in the "blitz" 1944?
    D


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  • #142
    johnny_doyle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,021 ✭✭✭johnny_doyle


    a quick check on Ancestry gives the following Medal Card entries (but nothing to confirm if they are your chaps)

    Name:George G Giltrap
    Regiment or Corps:Army Service Corps
    Regimental Number:S4/140255

    Posted to Egypt November 1915. Awarded the 1915 Star, British War Medal and Victory Medal. Note to say rank = Acting Sergeant.

    No service or pension record found.

    Name:Richard Giltrap
    Regiment or Corps:Irish Guards
    Regimental Number:4004

    Disembarkation date given as 13/8/14; presume to France as no theatre listed. British War Medal and Victory Medal. There's no roll number for a 1914 Star but if he entered theatre he should have been eligible for this award.

    If this is your man, the Irish Guards service records are available but have to be written for.

    There is another record for a Richard Henry Giltrap, London Regiment who was killed

    http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=598438

    but his memorial record indicates he was from Tyrellpass.

    Can you confirm the Lucan bit? I can see a Richard of the right birth year in Lucan in the 1911 census but with no Graham. There is however a Richard and Graham George in Elverstown, Kildare in the 1901 and 1911 census (which has more obvious links to your user id) but Richard would be born before 1894.

    Those killed in the blitz would be on the CWGC website but I only see a Thomas Giltrap from Scotland who died overseas.


  • #143
    FiSe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 821 ✭✭✭FiSe


    Wouldn't 'blitz' refer to the LW raids during the BoB, ie summer 1940 - spring 1941?
    1944 it's more like V1/V2 attack. That could explain the missing name from the Blitz roll?


  • #144
    johnny_doyle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,021 ✭✭✭johnny_doyle


    FiSe wrote: »
    Wouldn't 'blitz' refer to the LW raids during the BoB, ie summer 1940 - spring 1941?
    1944 it's more like V1/V2 attack. That could explain the missing name from the Blitz roll?


    unlike civilians killed in WW1, all civilians killed in the UK as a result of WW2 action are recorded on the CWGC database (barring errors and unintentional ommissions). Over 66000 recorded.

    Hopefully the following link works OK which lists some of those with the rank "Civilian"

    http://www.cwgc.org/search/cemetery_reports.aspx?cemetery=4004889&mode=1&tab=7&page=1


  • #145
    johnny_doyle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,021 ✭✭✭johnny_doyle


    one of those on the census for Elverstown is Samuel Cope Giltrap. There is a probate record for him on Ancestry marking date of death as 30th May 1940 in Kildare. The probate was sorted in Llandudno with probate granted to Richard Giltrap, farmer.

    There's a probate record for a William Giltrap from Kildare who died 3rd March 1928.

    Found a marriage record for a George G Giltrap in Swansea, 1923 plus a death record for 55 year old George G Giltrap in Swansea in 1950. Obviously not sure if this is the same man but there are no George G Giltrap births in England or Wales.


  • #146
    elverstown
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46 ✭elverstown


    Hi Jonny Doyle,
    thanks for that info, you have found bits of info that 4 months of browsing didnt turn up. giltraps of elverstown is my granmothers birthplace, and where i live. her father, richard, had two brothers who set up buisness in lucan , sam as hardware, henry(harry) as a butcher. Sam had no children, henry had 9, the last 3 being triplets, mother and one child died shortly after. George and richard were older children. Richard seems to have been the black sheep of the family, and left ireland in qustianable circumstances, and george had limited contact with home.
    Samuel cope(greatgranmother cope from castledermot) giltrap was my great uncle, progressive farmer, not married , died relativly young.
    I have a copy of a will from William giltrap, my fourth great granfather of 1828,
    which, lists all his children. I am looking for any other wills, and Williams siblings.
    sorry I am a one finger typer, mildly dislexlic, cant spell or get spellcheck to work, and dont see my mistakes untill i read the about 3 times. I love techknow
    ledgely, but i struggle to make it work for me.
    D


  • #147
    Curiousgal
    Registered Users Posts: 32 ✭Curiousgal


    Johnny_Doyle - you are in danger of knowing more about the Giltraps than the Giltraps themselves! I'm very impressed by your discoveries for D from Elverstown. He and I are related in some way - being descended from the Giltraps of Wicklow. So glad you could find out info for him on Richard and George Graham - the same way you did on James A. Giltrap for me. They would have been cousins of each other - various times removed!

    Well done - and I'm learning even more thanks to your and D from Elverstown's help. So thank you.


  • #148
    johnny_doyle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,021 ✭✭✭johnny_doyle


    elverstown wrote: »
    Hi Jonny Doyle,
    thanks for that info, you have found bits of info that 4 months of browsing didnt turn up. giltraps of elverstown is my granmothers birthplace, and where i live. her father, richard, had two brothers who set up buisness in lucan , sam as hardware, henry(harry) as a butcher. Sam had no children, henry had 9, the last 3 being triplets, mother and one child died shortly after. George and richard were older children. Richard seems to have been the black sheep of the family, and left ireland in qustianable circumstances, and george had limited contact with home.
    Samuel cope(greatgranmother cope from castledermot) giltrap was my great uncle, progressive farmer, not married , died relativly young.
    I have a copy of a will from William giltrap, my fourth great granfather of 1828,
    which, lists all his children. I am looking for any other wills, and Williams siblings.
    sorry I am a one finger typer, mildly dislexlic, cant spell or get spellcheck to work, and dont see my mistakes untill i read the about 3 times. I love techknow
    ledgely, but i struggle to make it work for me.
    D

    Hi Dermott,

    I have to confess that I'd not heard of Elverstown before your posts.

    My grandfather had some good friends from Castledermot whose names embarrassingly escape me.

    There is one record on irishgenealogy.ie re Giltraps in Elverstown :

    http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/5116390555191

    which moved to Co Dublin for the benefit of the baptism.

    I like the sound of Richard ;-) There is a death recorded in Herefordshire in 1978 for a Richard Giltrap born 4th January 1894. No birth in the UK matches; no marriage record found.

    There is a blog that mentions Giltrap, Elverstown and a chap by the name of Samuel Cope :

    http://athyeyeonthepast.blogspot.com/2010/03/eye-on-past-718.html



    Just to mess things around, the LDS Pilot website has a death record for a Graham G Giltrap which could be your George Graham..... :

    Name: Graham G Giltrap
    Registration District: Naas
    Event Type: DEATHS
    Registration Quarter and Year: Oct - Dec 1954
    Estimated Birth Year: 1895
    Age (at Death): 59

    Do you have any more info re the chap you think was killed in WW2?


  • #149
    johnny_doyle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,021 ✭✭✭johnny_doyle


    Curiousgal wrote: »
    Johnny_Doyle - you are in danger of knowing more about the Giltraps than the Giltraps themselves! I'm very impressed by your discoveries for D from Elverstown. He and I are related in some way - being descended from the Giltraps of Wicklow. So glad you could find out info for him on Richard and George Graham - the same way you did on James A. Giltrap for me. They would have been cousins of each other - various times removed!

    Well done - and I'm learning even more thanks to your and D from Elverstown's help. So thank you.

    I figure there must be some tie up re the Giltraps in Kildare, Dublin, Wicklow. It's not that common a name nor that widespread an area. Be interesting to see if it would be possible to link them together but Irish records being what they are it could be a forlorn hope.


  • #150
    Curiousgal
    Registered Users Posts: 32 ✭Curiousgal


    There is definitely a tie up between the Giltraps - without wishing to say it too loudly... they were soldiers who came over with Cromwell! Both D and I had been aware of this dubious past before we hooked up on another website ;-) The furthest I can go back is my great great great grandfather Henry, a tailor/woollen draper from Dunlavin, Co. Wicklow, born probably around 1800. Somewhere along the line either he or one of his grandfathers is most probably a brother of one of D's. We have found out some interesting claims they made for compensation after the 1798 Rebellion for damaged property - indicating that they had been given land confiscated from the locals originally, which obviously didn't go down too well! There's even one account from a Canadian descendent online about a Mrs. Giltrap (D's direct ancestor I believe) and her maid successfully defending their home from a group of marauding rebels, smoking one of them back up the chimney, making them think soldiers were on the premises!

    But remembering this is a thread on WWI soldiers, I'm delighted to tell you that this week I received an invitation from Dublin's Lord Mayor to a wine reception for people who donated items/info to the Royal Dublin Fusiliers Association archives this year. After you discovered all that info on James Giltrap, i.e. that he had more army discharges than the average battalion ;-), I donated a copy of the letters he wrote as an RDF soldier in Karachi in 1891. So at the reception, I plan to toast James and also all of you on this site who remember these men - if only they knew they haven't been forgotten!


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  • #151
    elverstown
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46 ✭elverstown


    Thanks again JD,
    From a family Bible I have my cousin Richard (twice removed, and black sheep) birth date as Jany 4th 1894. well found! I think that might be news to his closer family.
    The George G you mentoned would be my grans brother. Rathmore, naas.
    What confuses things is the repeated use of the same first names ie. William, Richard, Samuel, George, Henry and John, and add mothers maiden name, ie. Cope, Graham and Brown ( all from Castledermot), and then marry their first cousins:eek:
    The blog you mentioned, of George Henry Graham, who would be my great grans brother, and I have his diary of 1857, and a copy of his diary of the voyage to New Zealand.
    While there are not so many Giltraps around now, there were in the 1800's.
    There are at least ten headstones in the graveyard of Hollywood church.
    A number of them being tenant farmers of Lord Waterford/Rev Beresford, in an area called Mullica lower, others were land stewards/estate managers, including one Joseph, who was in Fota Cork.
    Are the records from Lord waterfords estates available? and what did Richard do for his last sixty years? I will try and find out why he had to leave Ireland.
    D:D


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