are our Catholic/Christian values being brushed aside?

gctest50 · 13-01-2019 1:44am

realitykeeper wrote: »

...........

The second coming of Christ may be imminent.

Typical carpenter, state of the place after he was here the last time - his auld lad was no better, off to Jerusalam on a donkey when he was supposed to be planing the doors

steddyeddy · 13-01-2019 2:09am

Sweetemotion wrote: »

And the people, who talked about what was happening in Tuam 30 years ago. Were also laughed at, by people like you.

I'm not defending FGM. As I said it's barbaric but our "Christianity" values as a society were no more kind towards children.

Sonic Youth · 13-01-2019 2:18am

steddyeddy wrote: »

I'm not defending FGM. As I said it's barbaric but our "Christianity" values as a society were no more kind towards children.

Wut?

Dravokivich · 13-01-2019 2:22am

eagle eye wrote: »

The rise of Islam would tempt me towards Irexit. Rather be poor than dead.

I'm not sure how that'd work. Islamic fundamentalists aren't impeded by politics.

Moghead · 13-01-2019 2:38am

Muckka wrote: »

Why did the atheist cross the road ?

To tell everyone they're an atheist...

Same applies with liberals, vegans and the other ilk

Not to be taken personal.... only banter ok

Why did the priest cross the road?

To sodomise the child.

Moghead · 13-01-2019 2:44am

Dakota Dan wrote: »

Climate change is the new religion with fools falling for it left right and center.

Climate change denial, chemtrails, etc is like a cult. Feeds off the gullible.

uck51js9zml2yt · 13-01-2019 3:06am

steddyeddy wrote: »

I have to laugh when I see people predict the loss of our Christianity will result in an increase in FGM and other barbaric practices towards children.

Can I remind people who say that of the mass child grave that was uncovered at Tuam?

It was Christians who brought an end to some of the worst abuses of children.
Please don't confuse Christianity with the practices of Christendom, nor Indeed Christian with Catholic/ Protestant practices.

By their fruit shall they be known.

eagle eye · 13-01-2019 3:54am

Dravokivich wrote:

I'm not sure how that'd work. Islamic fundamentalists aren't impeded by politics.

No free movement into the country.

13-01-2019 4:48am

eviltwin wrote: »

You living your life how you want and staying out of mine and vice versa is not intolerance.

Intolerance is insisting we hold onto traditional values when it's clear a sizeable group in society don't share them.

Intolerance is also this all-pervasive consumerist culture being rammed down our throats in our kitchens, cars, walking down streets, on the back and sides of buses and loads more vehicles, newspapers, tv etc etc etc. Saturation.

This society has infinitely more intolerance for those of us who wish to avoid all that corporate propaganda and agenda pushing than the Roman Church has for non-believers.

endacl · 13-01-2019 4:53am

Aaron Steep Lung wrote: »

By their fruit shall they be known.

Under his eye.

eagle eye · 13-01-2019 4:57am

I'd have to agree with the last poster. The intolerance shown by a lot of people these days for what they don't like is ridiculous.
This is why I don't call myself an atheist. I don't want to be associated with people who hate on religion.
I believe that you have the right to practice your religion and not have to listen to idiots shouting about how evil the church is.
Same goes the other way too with the idiots who are of the opinion that if you are not a believer that you are a lesser being or a bad person. Using religion as a political tool is also wrong.
I'd just love if they all stfu and kept their views to themselves and their friends.

hatrickpatrick · 13-01-2019 9:00am

eagle eye wrote: »

I'd have to agree with the last poster. The intolerance shown by a lot of people these days for what they don't like is ridiculous.
This is why I don't call myself an atheist. I don't want to be associated with people who hate on religion.
I believe that you have the right to practice your religion and not have to listen to idiots shouting about how evil the church is.
Same goes the other way too with the idiots who are of the opinion that if you are not a believer that you are a lesser being or a bad person. Using religion as a political tool is also wrong.
I'd just love if they all stfu and kept their views to themselves and their friends.

Attacking the church or social conservatism isn't the same thing as attacking religion though. I don't think anybody has any issue with individuals practising their own religion in their own time, or even choosing to live a repressed lifestyle of their own free will - it's when they inflict their beliefs on other people and don't give them a choice in the matter that it becomes a problem.

I'm religious myself and I long for the day in which the Catholic Church totally collapses and social norms which define victimless actions as "wrong" are eradicated from state policy and peer pressure. That's not the same as hating religion.

hatrickpatrick · 13-01-2019 9:03am

Dravokivich wrote: »

I'm not sure how that'd work. Islamic fundamentalists aren't impeded by politics.

The connection is drawn because of the perception that the EU policies of (a) allowing migrants into the eurozone and (b) free movement of people, limit national governments' autonomy to close their borders or control the demographics of who immigrates into their countries.

hatrickpatrick · 13-01-2019 9:06am

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Great you legistated for killing the unborn

In my opinion it's not 'alive' yet at 12 weeks to begin with, so there's no killing involved.

and what ever monstrosity you call "marriage equality".

Allowing people to do whatever they want with their own bodies without reference to what anyone else wants them to do, yes.

Next thing you will want to euthanize the elder generation.

If they choose to do it, then absolutely. Why should anyone be forced to continue living against their will? Your body, your rules.

uck51js9zml2yt · 13-01-2019 9:12am

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

In my opinion it's not 'alive' yet at 12 weeks to begin with, so there's no killing involved

And yet it has a heartbeat!!!
Would love to know your definition of life.

hatrickpatrick · 13-01-2019 9:18am

Aaron Steep Lung wrote: »

And yet it has a heartbeat!!!
Would love to know your definition of life.

I don't consider a foetus 'alive' until it reaches the point of viability, or that at which is can survive independently of its mothers' womb. Debate for a whole other thread probably

Unlike many in this debate, I do fully accept that my own opinions are merely opinions and that no voters have opinions which are just as valid. Abortion isn't the same as other social conservative issues for this reason - the question of how one defines human life is central to the debate, which makes it unique. However, a majority of the people clearly agree to some extent with the premise that an early term foetus is not "alive" - otherwise they wouldn't have voted the way they did.

The other positions of social conservatism I have no time for. Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs or opinions, but in my view if you believe that another human's sexual behaviour can be "wrong" even when there's no non-consenting third party involved, you're a control freak. And in my view, control freak is generally synonymous with asshole. In other words, if you think you have a right to tell people what to do, you're far more likely to be an out and out gobsh!te. I struggle to understand mindsets which seek to restrict other peoples' happiness even when what makes them happy is entirely self-contained.

eviltwin · 13-01-2019 9:54am

eagle eye wrote: »

I'd have to agree with the last poster. The intolerance shown by a lot of people these days for what they don't like is ridiculous.
This is why I don't call myself an atheist. I don't want to be associated with people who hate on religion.
I believe that you have the right to practice your religion and not have to listen to idiots shouting about how evil the church is.
Same goes the other way too with the idiots who are of the opinion that if you are not a believer that you are a lesser being or a bad person. Using religion as a political tool is also wrong.
I'd just love if they all stfu and kept their views to themselves and their friends.

Atheist is just a handy term to describe your religious views - or lack thereof - but yeah, I don't like how it's become a movement to shame religion and religious people.

IMHO it's not religion that's the problem, it's how religion is interpreted and how some want it to dictate social values and laws.

I'm not religious but don't have any problem with people who are, I just want to have a nice, quiet life free from religious influence. Not too much to ask.

Sofiztikated · 13-01-2019 10:19am

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Which of the 10 commandments do you object to?

Which version of the 10 commandments are you following, and what version of the Bible are you reading?

nozzferrahhtoo · 13-01-2019 11:13am

realitykeeper wrote: »

abandoning it just when we need it most.

What about religion do we need at all, specifically now "most"?

realitykeeper wrote: »

The second coming of Christ may be imminent.

It has been "imminent" for a hell of a long time now, with people in every generation seemingly convinced it was giong to happen in their life time. What makes you think now is any different?

Have you ANY evidence that such an event, the return of a dead person, is likely to occur? Have you even a modicum of substantiation for the idea there even is a god in the first place? I will take any silence in response to these questions as an admission that no, you do not. "reality keeper" indeed. You just keep it OUT of the conversation it seems.

realitykeeper wrote: »

We live in a time unlike any other in history. It certainly looks like the vision of Pope Leo VIII has come true, the church has been destroyed.

Due to the ongoing progresses in society, science and more.... most people most of the time can claim to have lived in a time unlike any in their own history. That said however, it is hardly a prophecy or a "vision" to predict the demise of the church. Likely he was simply shocked they had been getting away with as much as they have, for as long as they have.

realitykeeper wrote: »

In the various apparitions such as Fatima, Medjugorje, Kibeho and Akita, Our Lady is said to look sad

Sure, when people hallucinate things that are not there, they do tend to project their own emotional state into the hallucination. And lets face it, of all the religions I know of the Catholic one is up there as one of the most dour and depressing. As the Muse said to a catholic in the film Dogma "You people do not celebrate your faith, you mourn it".

So colour me unsurprised you people are not hallucinating happy slappy dancing young women.

realitykeeper wrote: »

When we think in imortally, this is understandable. Earthly life is short, our souls are infinate.

Which is, whether you realise it or not, one of the things that makes a mockery of the "sacrifice" your alleged Messiah is meant to have committed. The very tenets of your own narrative make a joke out of it.

Mad_maxx · 13-01-2019 11:15am

eviltwin wrote: »

You living your life how you want and staying out of mine and vice versa is not intolerance.

Intolerance is insisting we hold onto traditional values when it's clear a sizeable group in society don't share them.

The PC brigade are actively trying to impose their politics, "values" and ideas on others

The new secular nuns and priests, colm o gorman is the new mc quaid

Dakota Dan · 13-01-2019 11:25am

Moghead wrote: »

Climate change denial, chemtrails, etc is like a cult. Feeds off the gullible.

Nobody denies climate change, it’s always changing.

skooterblue2 · 13-01-2019 12:22pm

Aaron Steep Lung wrote: »

And yet it has a heartbeat!!!
Would love to know your definition of life.

And I would go further that it has a consciousness, called "Shen" in chinese medicine.

uptherebels · 13-01-2019 12:30pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

The PC brigade are actively trying to impose their politics, "values" and ideas on others

The new secular nuns and priests, colm o gorman is the new mc quaid

How?
Allowing gay marriage is not imposing their beliefs of you.
Getting rid of the baptismal barrier is not imposing their beliefs on you.
Insisting that a Catholic education isn't administered in state financed schools is
Not imposing their beliefs on you.

skooterblue2 · 13-01-2019 12:40pm

uptherebels wrote: »

How?
Allowing gay marriage is not imposing their beliefs of you.
Getting rid of the baptismal barrier is not imposing their beliefs on you.
Insisting that a Catholic education isn't administered in state financed schools is
Not imposing their beliefs on you.

Erm actually when you shouting "hate speech" and "Political Correctness" that is imposing your beliefs. "Political correctness" is a phrase borrowed from communism, meaning you towed the party line. We all know or would rather not know what happened in countries like Poland, Russia, China, Korea and many other who didnt follow the party line.

We dont want state run school we want locally controlled schools. Yes all schools receive a headage payment per pupil but a lot of money is raised locally by parents.

Mad_maxx · 13-01-2019 12:41pm

uptherebels wrote: »

How?
Allowing gay marriage is not imposing their beliefs of you.
Getting rid of the baptismal barrier is not imposing their beliefs on you.
Insisting that a Catholic education isn't administered in state financed schools is
Not imposing their beliefs on you.

Consent classes
Multicultural ideology
Feminism

All creeping into the classroom, like the church of old, indoctrinate them young, the education system was already pretty left wing but is being taken over by cultural leftists, its completely dominated at third level

skooterblue2 · 13-01-2019 12:45pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

The new secular nuns and priests, colm o gorman is the new mc quaid

A very strange character indeed. I followed him through "1 in 4" and the Progressive democrats. I thought he was a white knight coming out and going to do a lot of good. I cannot believe a gay man would promote Islamic interest considering the Muslim Brotherhood were throwing gay young lads off the tops of buildings in Cairo.

I guess he is only human and took the money and ran with it. Guessing he was lacking moral fibre when it was called fall making him no better than the good clergy who stood by silently when there was a wolf in the fold.

skooterblue2 · 13-01-2019 12:48pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

the education system was already pretty left wing but is being taken over by cultural leftists, its completely dominated at third level

My buddy there the other day got into a debate with a lecturer (very foolishly) when he got told "There are 27 different genders". My friend lampooned the lecturer adn told him he identified as a giraffe. We will see how that turns out.

Mad_maxx · 13-01-2019 12:53pm

skooterblue2 wrote: »

A very strange character indeed. I followed him through "1 in 4" and the Progressive democrats. I thought he was a white knight coming out and going to do a lot of good. I cannot believe a gay man would promote Islamic interest considering the Muslim Brotherhood were throwing gay young lads off the tops of buildings in Cairo.

I guess he is only human and took the money and ran with it. Guessing he was lacking moral fibre when it was called fall making him no better than the good clergy who stood by silently when there was a wolf in the fold.

Dreadful narcissist and media darling

batgoat · 13-01-2019 1:20pm

skooterblue2 wrote: »

A very strange character indeed. I followed him through "1 in 4" and the Progressive democrats. I thought he was a white knight coming out and going to do a lot of good. I cannot believe a gay man would promote Islamic interest considering the Muslim Brotherhood were throwing gay young lads off the tops of buildings in Cairo.

I guess he is only human and took the money and ran with it. Guessing he was lacking moral fibre when it was called fall making him no better than the good clergy who stood by silently when there was a wolf in the fold.

I'm guessing you're referring to the fact that he campaigned for the release of Ibrahim Halawa. Yes, a human rights campaigner, campaigning for human rights. It's shocking.

Also your last paragraph is pretty disgusting. The man was raped by members of the clergy and you're saying he's no better than them? The man has consistently fought for human rights and helped expose institutional abuse.

Mad_maxx · 13-01-2019 1:27pm

batgoat wrote: »

I'm guessing you're referring to the fact that he campaigned for the release of Ibrahim Halawa. Yes, a human rights campaigner, campaigning for human rights. It's shocking.

Also your last paragraph is pretty disgusting. The man was raped by members of the clergy and you're saying he's no better than them? The man has consistently fought for human rights and helped expose institutional abuse.

He fought for the release of halawa while being struck dumb about the guys dad

joe40 · 13-01-2019 1:33pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

uptherebels wrote: »

How?
Allowing gay marriage is not imposing their beliefs of you.
Getting rid of the baptismal barrier is not imposing their beliefs on you.
Insisting that a Catholic education isn't administered in state financed schools is
Not imposing their beliefs on you.

Consent classes
Multicultural ideology
Feminism

All creeping into the classroom, like the church of old, indoctrinate them young, the education system was already pretty left wing but is being taken over by cultural leftists, its completely dominated at third level

I Must check out the staffroom on monday to spot all the "cultural leftist infiltrators" What should I look for.

eagle eye · 13-01-2019 1:37pm

uptherebels wrote:

Insisting that a Catholic education isn't administered in state financed schools is Not imposing their beliefs on you.

The majority of people in this country are Catholic do I don't see any issue with Catholic education classes.
The only thing is to make sure they aren't mandatory.

wakka12 · 13-01-2019 1:40pm

Im happy that human morals and values that respect all kinds of people are replacing christian/catholic ones

eagle eye · 13-01-2019 1:50pm

wakka12 wrote:

Im happy that human morals and values that respect all kinds of people are replacing christian/catholic ones

What's different about them?

skooterblue2 · 13-01-2019 1:56pm

joe40 wrote: »

I Must check out the staffroom on monday to spot all the "cultural leftist infiltrators" What should I look for.

"White privilege"
"Dont assume my gender"
"We need more Diversity"
"I am handing out extra points for diversity"
"Its ok to not know what gender you are"
"Family isnt everything"
"The state is your mommy"
"Dont judge someone because they have a drugs conviction"
"Women need stong role models"
"Toxic masculine culture"

Once you heard those phrases, you can flush 'em out!.

13-01-2019 2:10pm

eagle eye wrote: »

IThe intolerance shown by a lot of people these days for what they don't like is ridiculous.
This is why I don't call myself an atheist. I don't want to be associated with people who hate on religion.
.

Take it that your earlier irexit post was sarcastic/bs/trying to fit in with the tone of the thread?

13-01-2019 2:12pm

eagle eye wrote: »

What's different about them?

Most religious people don't have the tolerance for people with different views or beliefs.

skooterblue2 · 13-01-2019 2:14pm

batgoat wrote: »

Also your last paragraph is pretty disgusting. The man was raped by members of the clergy and you're saying he's no better than them? The man has consistently fought for human rights and helped expose institutional abuse.

That is already covered by the "1 in 4" and why I expected better of him.
Daddy Halawa is the bag man for the Muslim Brotherhood in Europe. Start looking into his shady past. Why he left Egypt and why he was told to stay quiet. He has stayed stumm about Islamic abuses and FGM in Ireland. I think there are about 6000 cases to be see here that happened here.

He is no better than the good members of the Clergy who stayed stumm which animals like Brendan Smyth and Sean Fortune and the like ran riot.

skooterblue2 · 13-01-2019 2:15pm

DubInMeath wrote: »

Most religious people don't have the tolerance for people with different views or beliefs.

...........and Hard left wing atheist do?
Do I have to remind you of their whole vocabulary?

I would consider myself a a religious catholic, yet I meet members of the Church of Ireland, Presbyterians, Baptist , pagans, Sikhs and Buddhist for two social meetings once a month. I bring up neither religion nor politics, everyone goes home happy. So I dont know where you are going with that one.

Would you say you have any friends or associates with very different or polar opposite beliefs? See that is sort of a natural thing to bond with your own kind.

Dravokivich · 13-01-2019 2:16pm

eagle eye wrote: »

No free movement into the country.

Eh... that's gonna work with our coastline how?

13-01-2019 2:20pm

skooterblue2 wrote: »

...........and Hard left wing atheist do?
Do I have to remind you of their whole vocabulary?

Different bs to the right wing anti X posters on here and their vocabulary

skooterblue2 · 13-01-2019 2:24pm

Dravokivich wrote: »

Eh... that's gonna work with our coastline how?

You vet them properly at the airport. Very little you can do in Ireland without a bank account, Photo ID and a PPS number. Any ones surplus to requirement or without a valid reason to be here back on the boat/airplane with you.

hatrickpatrick · 13-01-2019 2:31pm

wakka12 wrote: »

Im happy that human morals and values that respect all kinds of people are replacing christian/catholic ones

eagle eye wrote: »

What's different about them?

One has historically worked to destroy people both psychologically and legally if their victimless sexual behaviour is considered "wrong", the other does not believe that victimless behaviour can be considered "wrong" to begin with.

That's a fairly fundamental difference considering how central sexuality is to the experience of being human.

eagle eye · 13-01-2019 2:31pm

DubInMeath wrote:

Most religious people don't have the tolerance for people with different views or beliefs.

So you are saying that non-religious people associate with all types? I don't think so.

batgoat · 13-01-2019 2:34pm

skooterblue2 wrote: »

That is already covered by the "1 in 4" and why I expected better of him.
Daddy Halawa is the bag man for the Muslim Brotherhood in Europe. Start looking into his shady past. Why he left Egypt and why he was told to stay quiet. He has stayed stumm about Islamic abuses and FGM in Ireland. I think there are about 6000 cases to be see here that happened here.

He is no better than the good members of the Clergy who stayed stumm which animals like Brendan Smyth and Sean Fortune and the like ran riot.

So punish the son because of who the father is? Btw, since Ibrahim returned to Ireland, he hasn't come across as remotely radical. Also, imprisonment without trial isn't remotely acceptable and that's what Halawa was facing for years.

hatrickpatrick · 13-01-2019 2:35pm

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Would you say you have any friends or associates with very different or polar opposite beliefs? See that is sort of a natural thing to bond with your own kind.

Not the person you were talking to, but I have several friends with very right wing beliefs stemming from authoritarian interpretations of Christianity, including my ex girlfriend. I spent the referendum campaigns on gay marriage and abortion trying to persuade the SJW nutjobs on my own side to cut out the bullsh!t personal attacks and "no platforming" attempts, using the recent experiences of Trump and Brexit - two electoral results I am absolutely convinced came about primarily due to people doubling down against being told what to do in a supposedly democratic society ("vote for whoever you want, but if you vote for this person you're a scumbag and we'll shut you out of public discourse").

Not every social liberal is an intolerant asshole, but I do agree that our side has come to tolerate far too much intolerance in our own ranks over the last decade, which is pathetic and incredibly saddening to see.

eagle eye · 13-01-2019 2:37pm

DubInMeath wrote:

Most religious people don't have the tolerance for people with different views or beliefs.

And a lot of non-religious don't have tolerance for those who are religious.

sk8erboii · 13-01-2019 2:37pm

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Not the person you were talking to, but I have several friends with very right wing beliefs stemming from authoritarian interpretations of Christianity, including my ex girlfriend. I spent the referendum campaigns on gay marriage and abortion trying to persuade the SJW nutjobs on my own side to cut out the bullsh!t personal attacks and "no platforming" attempts, using the recent experiences of Trump and Brexit - two electoral results I am absolutely convinced came about primarily due to people doubling down against being told what to do in a supposedly democratic society ("vote for whoever you want, but if you vote for this person you're a scumbag and we'll shut you out of public discourse").

Not every social liberal is an intolerant asshole, but I do agree that our side has come to tolerate far too much intolerance in our own ranks over the last decade, which is pathetic and incredibly saddening to see.

Yes. Its common practice to shut down intolerant institutions. Especially the Catholic Church.

Catholics arent the victim here.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

Muckka · 13-01-2019 2:38pm

DubInMeath wrote: »

Most religious people don't have the tolerance for people with different views or beliefs.

Either do atheists I know.
It's ironic really isn't it.
That's why paganism is more pure and non denominational.

Atheists and religious people seem to love getting into debates and hostile interactive discussion.

While the rest of us couldn't give a toss.

It's well known about the abuse both mental physical and sexual that the members of the clergy did.
Don't mention the nuns either.
We all know about it.
It's awful, and still has traction here.

I know a few atheists and a day doesn't go by without them going on Instagram and pushing their non beliefs of sky fairies or something about the church which isn't savoury.

As time passes people just ignore the post's or they prop each up.

I seen Ireland's athiest bishop guy in his red t-shirt doing a speech.
He's quite articulate with his conviction but it's all word salad and has an undercurrent of cult like attitude.

Each to their own, but keep your atheistic observations and religion away from me.

Having an obsession about something you don't believe in, reminds me of the aul fella down the road talking about the fact there hasn't been a trout in the lake in 20 years.
Because the pike ate em all.

There's no pike there either only Rudd and eel's....

eagle eye · 13-01-2019 2:40pm

hatrickpatrick wrote:

That's a fairly fundamental difference considering how central sexuality is to the experience of being human.

My mother is a deeply religious person who goes to mass every day and she voted for abortion and for gay marriage.

are our Catholic/Christian values being brushed aside?

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