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Opted out of Substitution & Supervision and the Dept. kept all the money!

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  • 10-07-2020 9:59am
    #1
    ethical
    Registered Users Posts: 720 ✭✭✭


    A number of years ago Teachers were somewhat forced to decide if they wanted to continue with S& S or were given the option to opt out. Many opted out for their sanity due to the terrible deterioration of the working conditions.Teachers who opted out had all the deductions paid to the Gov. over the years retained by the Exchequer..................and the Unions did not take ONE case against the employer.I'm calling on the Unions now to ask the Government to give back the "stolen" money.It was in the form of Pension contributions and this would come in very handy now for someone who may be close to retiring and the bonus is this......................the opening up of a teaching career for some young teacher (presently on 3 hours contracts,yes,3 hours!,better pay as a prisoner!!). Could you imagine all the opportunities that would open up for the young teachers if the Gov considered this.
    I do not believe for a moment that our Unions or the Dept. would be so forward thinking.They would prefer to carry on with the utter misrepresentation of the people that pay their wages.Prove me wrong!:D


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    #2
    TheDriver
    Registered Users Posts: 12,414 ✭✭✭✭TheDriver


    ethical wrote: »
    A number of years ago Teachers were somewhat forced to decide if they wanted to continue with S& S or were given the option to opt out. Many opted out for their sanity due to the terrible deterioration of the working conditions.Teachers who opted out had all the deductions paid to the Gov. over the years retained by the Exchequer..................and the Unions did not take ONE case against the employer.I'm calling on the Unions now to ask the Government to give back the "stolen" money.It was in the form of Pension contributions and this would come in very handy now for someone who may be close to retiring and the bonus is this......................the opening up of a teaching career for some young teacher (presently on 3 hours contracts,yes,3 hours!,better pay as a prisoner!!). Could you imagine all the opportunities that would open up for the young teachers if the Gov considered this.
    I do not believe for a moment that our Unions or the Dept. would be so forward thinking.They would prefer to carry on with the utter misrepresentation of the people that pay their wages.Prove me wrong!:D

    "Forced to decide" is a bit OTT, you were given the choice to continue with the scheme or withdraw from it for a financial reduction.
    To address your point, I raised this many years ago with the pensions board and the simple answer is that we don't contribute to a pension scheme in the traditional sense. We subscribe to a pension and the benefit is based on the final few years. Effectively contribution vs subscription.
    On another note, if benefit from the approx 10 years that pension was paid, you'd be looking at less than €4 per week gross benefit. Hardly going to promote someone to retire.


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    #3
    am_zarathustra
    Registered Users Posts: 1,395 ✭✭✭am_zarathustra


    Teachers pensions also come from current expenditure so there isn't a pot this money was/is funnelled into! The choice you were offered wasn't offered to any post 2013 staff either, it was a legacy option for pre 2013 teachers as they kicked up a fuss and completely optional.

    Post 2004 pensions are not in any way contributory, this would only effect post 2013 entries to the profession on the post 2013 pension system, who didn't have the option to opt out and most likely couldn't afford to even with the option


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    #4
    RealJohn
    Registered Users Posts: 2,099 ✭✭✭RealJohn


    My biggest issue with that whole debacle (it’s surprising how often that’s the most appropriate word, when I post on this forum) is that we accepted the lie that our pay wasn’t being reduced.
    They said that they wouldn’t reduce our pay, but that we had to either do the S&S for free (which is a pay reduction), and eventually, gave an option to people to opt out of S&S but that they would have their pay reduced.
    And somehow, we let that through while they were still claiming not to have reduced our pay.


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    #5
    theoldbreed
    Registered Users Posts: 405 ✭✭theoldbreed


    I didn't get the choice to opt out, I've been teaching many years and I started doing s and s a while before this came in and because I didn't break service I didn't get an option. I'd have opted out for sure.


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    #6
    deiseindublin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,259 ✭✭✭deiseindublin


    I didn't opt out at the time thinking I'd learn to 'bear' it but it's pretty torturous to be fair.


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    #7
    mick kk
    Registered Users Posts: 356 ✭✭mick kk


    Since schools were closed in March, we had not been in school and so S and S is not required...therefore, should those of us who opted out of S and S be deducted while schools were closed i.e. as schools were closed, we could not "not do" s and s....so should we be deducted for not doing something that we could not actually do?
    Also, those who opted into S and S are not being deducted AND at the same time have not done S and S between March and June....so all of us did no S and S since March, but some of us were deducted for not doing it and some were not deducted for not doing it.

    I feel dizzy now after writing this!


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    #8
    RealJohn
    Registered Users Posts: 2,099 ✭✭✭RealJohn


    No. You opted out. I had most of my classes done by the time the school closed anyway, so I pretty much only had lunchtime supervisions left.
    Anyway, you took your deal. Why would you be entitled to anything? You might have a case for arguing that those of us who didn’t opt out should have ours reduced, if you want to be really unpopular. I doubt even the politicians will be that brazen.


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    #9
    Random sample
    Registered Users Posts: 1,001 ✭✭✭Random sample


    mick kk wrote: »
    Since schools were closed in March, we had not been in school and so S and S is not required...therefore, should those of us who opted out of S and S be deducted while schools were closed i.e. as schools were closed, we could not "not do" s and s....so should we be deducted for not doing something that we could not actually do?
    Also, those who opted into S and S are not being deducted AND at the same time have not done S and S between March and June....so all of us did no S and S since March, but some of us were deducted for not doing it and some were not deducted for not doing it.

    I feel dizzy now after writing this!

    Now there is a rabbit hole I do not want to see explored!

    When you opted out you opted out for your entire career.


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    #10
    Icsics
    Registered Users Posts: 2,043 ✭✭✭Icsics


    Yet in the last round of schools when schools closed because S&S was withdrawn we were all deducted pay. Even though those of us who ‘opted out’ were not withdrawing supervision as we never did it!


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    #11
    Treppen
    Registered Users Posts: 4,571 ✭✭✭Treppen


    Icsics wrote: »
    Yet in the last round of schools when schools closed because S&S was withdrawn we were all deducted pay. Even though those of us who ‘opted out’ were not withdrawing supervision as we never did it!

    If you opted out then you had already withdrawn supervision.


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