Freemasons: Evil secret society or misunderstood nice guys...

keu · 18-08-2004 5:25pm

everyday I would mingle with authors of "spiritual" books and movies, one or two TV celebrities and the supposed "future president of the united states" I laughed when I heard that one.
and before you think it, its not exactly a manipulitive plan sit around and draw up, its supposed "divine knowledge" which directs their actions. (the truth)
Illuminated literally means to enlighten spiritually (or intellectually) and there are methods for achieving such "illumination" (often similar to shamanic deaths, described in the skull and crossbone ritual) after which you see the "truth".
Which is why G W Bush claims to be a born again christian. " I see the light"

keu · 18-08-2004 5:26pm

Do they control scoiety?
I'm not referring to freemasons, I'm referring to the illuminati.
and to find the connection, read a little of the history of the illuminati to see how they became associated with the freemasons.
This society I'm referring to doesn't have obvious freemasons connections, it was a year before I even heard the name mentioned, which is when I started to do my homework.

Sleepy · 18-08-2004 6:35pm

Just out of curiosity Dev, did you join in the end?

keu · 18-08-2004 6:40pm

<<<<<order of the eastern star
(indoctrinated without my knowledge and from which I've ex communicated myself)
No one needs to be a member of any organisation in order to be a good person, such righteousness is sickening.

keu · 18-08-2004 7:01pm

"I named you 'Thomas' for a very good reason".

did they tell you how important you are to humaity yet? Like an apostle of christ?
your special DeV
does the truth resonate with you?

Absolam · 20-08-2004 6:43pm

keu wrote:

havent had time to read all the posts. I believe the negative attitude towards freemasons is derived from the "illuminati" connections, the majority of which freemasons are unaware of.
I understand that the Da Vinci code and Angels and demons have brought such issues to light and have brought about a lot of paranoia in the process, could such conspiracy theories actually exist in reality.

I think the best that can be said for the 'connections' between Freesmasonry & the Illuminati is that they were probably both fashionable Age of Reason era 'cults' for the gentry...and perhaps both had a dash of Egyptian mysticism stolen from all the archeological interest in Egypt.

I didn't think anyone even considered the Da Vinci Code to contain even a tiny grain of truth! Apalling formulaic gestalt fiction!

And no matter the age we live in, well there'll always be someone out there who thinks they're the secret society about to take over the world :rolleyes: guess we'll just have to keep the lights on and watch out for Cthulhu....

teaser · 21-08-2004 10:21am

freemasonry is a society with secrets, not a secret society, if it was, you would not have heard anything about it.

150 years ago the pope at the time deemed freemasonry unacceptable,
you can be any religion to join as long as you do not have conversation on the topic at meetings.

no, it not an evil society, freemasonry contributes much funding to charities. and the purpose of the golfing outings and other sports activities are to raise the money for the charities.

keu · 21-08-2004 5:45pm

I think the best that can be said for the 'connections' between Freesmasonry & the Illuminati is that they were probably both fashionable Age of Reason era 'cults' for the gentry...and perhaps both had a dash of Egyptian mysticism stolen from all the archeological interest in Egypt.

very true. (mind you those egyptians did happen to rule the world)

I didn't think anyone even considered the Da Vinci Code to contain even a tiny grain of truth! Apalling formulaic gestalt fiction!

I think angels and demons dealt more with illuminati than the da vinci code, and it is written around elements of truth. (not that I take it literally)

And no matter the age we live in, well there'll always be someone out there who thinks they're the secret society about to take over the world guess we'll just have to keep the lights on and watch out for Cthulhu....

always...
even more to the point, there will always be a group or society who will consider themselves "the chosen ones", ready to inherit the earth. (mormons, jehovahs witness, christians..etc..)

DeVore · 23-08-2004 11:58am

keu wrote:

did they tell you how important you are to humaity yet? Like an apostle of christ?
your special DeV
does the truth resonate with you?

Er, Keu, thats my family you are referring to.

My mother after yet another bout of me insisting that proof be produced for some claim that was being made around the dinner table, exclaimed that she knew she'd named me Thomas for a good reason (referring to Doubting Thomas from the bible).

The Freemasons I know have said nothing like that to me. I think you are crossing over your experiences from some rather dodgy groups to the Masons rather blithely, a little less tar & brush and a little more concrete evidence might be nice.

DeV.

keu · 23-08-2004 6:16pm

Er, Keu, thats my family you are referring to.

ah..no..it wasn't really. (I was referring to the chosen one syndrome that so many closed societies promote)
and yea..I probably am crossing over my experiences with some dodgy groups, there are too many dodgy groups out there for my liking. (but if you knew what I went through you might understand)

like everything else here at boards DeV, (as I'm sure you know only too well) there shouldn't be any reason to take it personally.

DeVore · 24-08-2004 2:59pm

Ah I'm not really taking it personally, I'm just a bit twitchy and over protective of my family

Cults work in very specific ways, they almost all have similar modus operandi... the first of which is to dislocate the target from their family and friends (anything that gives them a relative viewpoint on reality, anything that gives the person a frame of reference for the coming lunacy has to be eradicated). To achieve this they will spend a lot of time daily coaching and "enlightening" the candidate.
As you say making the target feel "special" or part of a higher selected group. Usually there is a powerfully charismatic character at the centre.

The masons seem different, they rarely agree between each other, they meet once a month and there doesnt seem to be a single political, religious or dogmatic belief/acceptance required.

Its more like the scouts for grown ups!

DeV.

dendenz · 29-08-2004 6:42pm

The Masonic lodges were formed by Stone Masons who had apprentice stonemasons, masters and a grandmaster who the masters elected. Its mainly a buisness club fro what I have read where there is no religious connotations but they help each other out financially such as swapping business contacts, making financial deals etc. etc

Sleepy · 30-08-2004 12:16pm

Anyone see the documentary last night on RTE? They had some northern "expert" who made Paisley look like a reasonable individual.

MrNuked · 30-08-2004 12:24pm

My grandfater was offered the position of Grand inquisitor, which would have made him the head honcho in the irish masons. He turned it down and left the order for ethical reasons. I think corruption, nepotism etc. He certainly was not a squeamish man, so I think they are probably a corrupt organisation

Gillo · 30-08-2004 8:57pm

MrNuked wrote:

My grandfater was offered the position of Grand inquisitor, which would have made him the head honcho in the irish masons. He turned it down and left the order for ethical reasons. I think corruption, nepotism etc. He certainly was not a squeamish man, so I think they are probably a corrupt organisation

In all teh reading I've done on Freemasonry, I've never heard of a Grand Inquisitor, where does he stand in relation teh The Grand Master??

Funny, while I've no reason to contradict you, if someone was so involved in Freemasonry, what he would be offered "the head honcho" position, why only leave at that stage?? It's like a cardinal been voted for as pope and then retiring from the preisthood because the whole Jesus story sounds just a bit dodgy.

MrNuked · 30-08-2004 9:00pm

Might have been grand master. I'm not an expert, and I heard about that ages ago, so i could have remembered it wrong.

vibrant · 31-08-2004 10:07pm

Sleepy wrote:

Anyone see the documentary last night on RTE? They had some northern "expert" who made Paisley look like a reasonable individual.

I caught a few minutes of it, wish I had seen the whole thing. It was intruiging, wasn't it?

Redbhoy · 02-09-2004 10:35am

Check out 'The Hiram Key'! Im reading it at the moment and gives a good account about the history of the Freemasons. Started thousands of years ago. Re-writes history. Very Good Read.
BTW- Whats the big deal about your buddy- He hasnt changed personality or anything and he seems like a decent sort according to you so going by that the Masons must be a good thing!

Absolam · 05-09-2004 12:09pm

Hiram Key; great read! Much better than the Holy Blood & the Holy Grail, which I still haven't finished as it puts me to sleep! Dunno how much of the Hiram Key is true but it is a cool perspective..makes you think how true it is that history IS written by the victors....

Absolam · 05-09-2004 12:17pm

vibrant wrote:

I caught a few minutes of it, wish I had seen the whole thing. It was intruiging, wasn't it?

We discussed it the last time they showed it, but I feel compelled, again, to say;

Biaised, inaccurate, hatchet job! It would have been great if they got opinions from more people with personal experience of Freemasonry (whether positive or negative) but to devote so much time to a fanatic whose closest experience to Freemasonry was the Orange Order really annoys me! Perhaps an opposer of the Freemasons who HAD been a member might have given them a better idea of how to 'reconstruct' the rituals as well!

Gillo · 05-09-2004 10:48pm

Doh, I missed it again, don't suppose anyone has a copy of it that they are willing to give me a loan of. Pm me if you are feeling generous.

As for "The Holy blood & The Holy Grail", just finished it, found it amazing but a bit accedemic, at some parts I got lost and had to read teh last few pages again, The Hiram Key looks pretty interesting. Aren't the authors both masons themselves, s o maybe it's written with a biased view? either way it sounds like a good read.

DeVore · 06-09-2004 11:19am

Sleepy wrote:

Anyone see the documentary last night on RTE? They had some northern "expert" who made Paisley look like a reasonable individual.

Yeah I caught it. I thought it was funny but my mate is fuming as it was very inaccurate (Even I could point out a fair number of inaccuracies!). The northern bloke was a raving loony.

There is no Grand Inquisitor by the way... you might be thinking of something Spanish!

DeV.

Gillo · 19-09-2004 11:24am

Started readign the Hiram Key, it's very interesting, alot easier to read than some of the author's other books. I curious to know did The Grand Lodge or any masonic body ever comment on the book.

BEAT · 12-11-2004 10:12pm

It a really big thing here...there is a huge Masonic temple close by but I had no idea I knew a Freemason!
The husband of my co-worker is a freemason, she just brought in a calendar rom his lodge ,on the inside cover of the calendar it reads like this:

My Brother,

As a Grand Master this year, I have adopted the theme:A moment in time. If you htink about it, our lives consist of a number of important 'moments in time'. Each event is an important moment in the time of one's life.

For Freemason's, those important moments miht also include becoming a Master Mason, giving a lecture for the first time, or even receiving a 25 or 50-year award.

This calendar is a gift from your Grand Lodge. Several of our Masonic charities are highlighted in this calendar, and I hope that you will support them this year if you are able.

Please enjoy this gift and continue to enjoy your many moments as a Master Mason.

-name-
Grand Master

I asked my co-worker if he would talk to me about it, she said no he doesnt even talk to her about it!
Why are they so secretive I'd like to know...I mean they do good things so why hide it?

Each month highlites a charity...it seems like a great organization!
It tells about other features as well...apparently Ohio has a long history of the Freemasons.

I plan on getting more information.../me puts on thinking cap

therecklessone · 13-11-2004 11:56am

BEAT wrote:

apparently Ohio has a long history of the Freemasons.

Bloody Republicans...

lost_lad · 22-11-2004 12:52am

I'm not a freemason but have done a little research into it.
The freemasons are a stepping stone for membership to the Illumanti. Anyone can be a Freemason (providing they believe in a one supreme being controls all reality - not technically 'God'). But when through your career or personal life you have sufficent national/international respect/wealth to be able to help control the masses you will be invited to join. Freemasons did have good intentions they where just hijacked by the Illumanti because by coincidence alot of the powerful members of society where members. The illumanti is hell bent on a one world goverment with a target population of 250 million. So that there is enough resources to go around. The pending oil crash and WW3 will help achieve all goals by 2020. Then the 'chosen' will live a life of servitude to the upper echelons.
Not much different from now really just that it will be more obvious then it is now. For those of you living in Dublin take a look at Ulster bank on quays. Its a typical Illumanti landmark. If you know what to look for they're everywhere.

therecklessone · 22-11-2004 11:47am

lost_lad wrote:

For those of you living in Dublin take a look at Ulster bank on quays. Its a typical Illumanti landmark. If you know what to look for they're everywhere.

Thanks for the headsup, I'll be keeping an eye out for that sort of thing in the future.

And sekrit handshakes I should be watchful for as well?

Absolam · 22-11-2004 2:25pm

lost_lad wrote:

I'm not a freemason but have done a little research into it.
The freemasons are a stepping stone for membership to the Illumanti. Anyone can be a Freemason (providing they believe in a one supreme being controls all reality - not technically 'God'). But when through your career or personal life you have sufficent national/international respect/wealth to be able to help control the masses you will be invited to join. Freemasons did have good intentions they where just hijacked by the Illumanti because by coincidence alot of the powerful members of society where members. The illumanti is hell bent on a one world goverment with a target population of 250 million. So that there is enough resources to go around. The pending oil crash and WW3 will help achieve all goals by 2020. Then the 'chosen' will live a life of servitude to the upper echelons.
Not much different from now really just that it will be more obvious then it is now. For those of you living in Dublin take a look at Ulster bank on quays. Its a typical Illumanti landmark. If you know what to look for they're everywhere.

:eek: no to flame but....lunatic! I know Freemasons up to the 33rd degree, and frankly they're more interested in a good meal and a few drinks than world domination. Considerably more interested. In fact, it may be their primary motivation...

lost_lad · 22-11-2004 8:26pm

Absolam wrote:

:eek: no to flame but....lunatic! I know Freemasons up to the 33rd degree, and frankly they're more interested in a good meal and a few drinks than world domination. Considerably more interested. In fact, it may be their primary motivation...

Up to the 33rd degree?? The divisions of the Fremasons? The top three being the enlightned or illumanated in some circles?

Sinner_Rez · 23-11-2004 10:43am

The Free Masons are just a collection of really rich and powerful people and when you get collections of people who have that kind of influence then there are always stories and myths and some truths about them and the past. You should be more concerned with groups like Opus Dei. They are the scary ones!

DeVore · 23-11-2004 11:24am

Lost_lad.... got any links or even anecdotes of your investigations?
I took quite a bit of time and effort to investigate them for real and I have linked here and related conversations I've had with Freemasons here. I'd like to see anything more then just supposition and conjecture from you.
Most of the masons I've ever met were actually fairly middle class blokes, plumbers, accountants, teachers, retired army men. Hardly the super rich or the Bavarian Illuminati!

I would agree that groups like Opus Dei and the Orange Order which are sectarian and have their own agenda for social change in their interest are considerably more concerning. Ironically Opus Dei cant abide the freemasons because its a multi-religion organisation.

You cant really compare the two though. Freemasons voluntarily meet once a month (I've been to their social gathering after a meeting myself before) and from what I see enjoy a good pissup. I wasnt approached or asked to join, or hassled or given any literature in fact I was the only one bringing up the topic, the rest seemed more interested in getting the beers in!
On the other hand Opus Dei seems to operate like a cult, members meet once a week and the further you go the more intimate the contact.

As for secrecy, to paraphrase my friend when I first found out he was a mason: "Would you tell people if they are going to react like that".

I looked like this: :eek:

Analytical research is what I started this for, tabloid conspiracy theories are for the weak of mind and the proles. Do you're own research.

DeV.

lost_lad · 23-11-2004 9:28pm

Its the higher echelons of the Freemasons that the have power.
Unless your near the top it is just a big drinking club. How many middle class peeps have any social power?

One of my most visited sites in general. Alex Jones maybe an american idiot but he gets links sent to him from intelligent people.
Lots of facts and opinion
http://www.prisonplanet.com/archives.html

http://www.trunkerton.fsnet.co.uk/Secret%20Societies.htm

Links down the side of the page.
http://www.illuminati-news.com

And didn't like this.
http://www.illuminati.org/

Often has small news bits.
http://www.disinfo.com/site/

A building of significance to the order.
http://www.solomonstemple.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=39

Not great...
http://www.freemasonrywatch.org/1index.html

Kinda rushed this but i'll get more off other computer tomorrow more history and origins stuff.Cant find the site that explains the degrees of free masonary but i will keep looking might be on other computer
found that interesting.

Lots of sites i used to go to no longer there. I havn't been looking in to it much lately.
Adopting the approach of hey America is going to Fu*k us all anyway so it dont matter anymore.

Absolam · 06-12-2004 1:55pm

Carol Evening on Saturday 11th Dec in Freemasons Hall Molesworth St Dublin, for those interested in venturing into the lions den

Think it's about €10 at the door, with mulled wine mince pies etc..

DeVore · 06-12-2004 2:41pm

Can anyone go? I have the santa strike force party that day unfortunately?

DeV.

Absolam · 06-12-2004 7:21pm

Yup, anyone.damn, I knew there was something else I wanted to do on Saturday! Ah well..

Gillo · 02-01-2005 2:37pm

lost_lad wrote:

Not much different from now really just that it will be more obvious then it is now. For those of you living in Dublin take a look at Ulster bank on quays. Its a typical Illumanti landmark. If you know what to look for they're everywhere.

As for as can see it's a big nicely built building, but obviously I don't know the same secrets you are prevvy to Lost Lad. Perhaps you'd care to tell me and the others here what to look for???

samo · 02-01-2005 9:44pm

I started reading this thread in work about 3 hours ago! I can honestly say I had a fairly suspicious view of freemasons, I cant say its still overly positive although when I have more time will review alot of the links more clearly but it has changed and challenged my perception somewhat.

Its always nice to be challenged in life whether you agree with the outcome or not and to see it from the 'other side' if you like.

So thanks for this thread - has been very interesting!

Oh and if you can elaborate on the ulster bank and the illuminati connection would be fascinated!!

Gillo · 05-01-2005 5:25pm

gillo wrote:

Perhaps you'd care to tell me and the others here what to look for???

Lost Lad; if you can't back up part of your agruement, I'd be sceptical of the rest of what you say.

meepmeep · 09-01-2005 6:22pm

lost_lad wrote:

I'm not a freemason but have done a little research into it.
The freemasons are a stepping stone for membership to the Illumanti. Anyone can be a Freemason (providing they believe in a one supreme being controls all reality - not technically 'God'). But when through your career or personal life you have sufficent national/international respect/wealth to be able to help control the masses you will be invited to join. Freemasons did have good intentions they where just hijacked by the Illumanti because by coincidence alot of the powerful members of society where members. The illumanti is hell bent on a one world goverment with a target population of 250 million. So that there is enough resources to go around. The pending oil crash and WW3 will help achieve all goals by 2020. Then the 'chosen' will live a life of servitude to the upper echelons.
Not much different from now really just that it will be more obvious then it is now. For those of you living in Dublin take a look at Ulster bank on quays. Its a typical Illumanti landmark. If you know what to look for they're everywhere.

ROFL

Someone has been watching that Sky One show "Conspiracies" where they had an episode about the illuminati.

These are the people that had an illumati "expert" on who showed an application form he downloaded from the internet! A top secret organistion who want to rule the world......"download an application form from the internet and join today!"

Oh yeah and there was the building that looked liked an owl (apparently) which was one of the many "hidden messages" from the illuminati - that one meant they were looking down on us supposedly.

:rolleyes:

meepmeep · 09-01-2005 6:29pm

gillo wrote:

As for as can see it's a big nicely built building, but obviously I don't know the same secrets you are prevvy to Lost Lad. Perhaps you'd care to tell me and the others here what to look for???

The whole pyramid thing is significant to the finding of the Holy Grail according to the Da Vinci Code (the novel i mean).

If you google "da vinci code" and "pyramid" you'll find loads of webpages on it. In the book he claims there are 666 panes of glass in the Louvre's pyramid, and suchlike things......

Someone needs to do some real research before spouting off about the illuminati!

Beruthiel · 21-01-2005 12:43pm

I am in the middle of reading the Hiram Key at the moment (recommend to me by my Da, who is not a Freemason btw)
It is written by two freemasons who spent years researching on how the group came into being.
It’s a fascinating read and from what I can gather so far, it’s possible that some guys up at the very top of the ladder probably do have a secret or two but that your normal chappie at the bottom hasn’t a clue about these things. (ie - the initiation rights are lost to the normal man coming in off the streets but that perhaps the upper echelons in the system know the true reason why these ‘degrees’ exists and the purpose behind them)
They are nothing more than a bunch of people who wish to do good, they are Gnostics, which I believe is probably the reason they came into being, ie, they do not believe that the RC church have right on THE only true religion but rather their outlook would be that a supreme being exists and is open to all without any church being required.

The part that fascinates me the most are the initiation rights, I would dearly love to know their true meaning and why it was necessary to make sure they were handed down
And perhaps, maybe, just maybe, they have knowledge as to where the infamous Arc of the Covenant could be*......

*that bits just wishful thinking on my part
Intriguing though!

athena 2000 · 22-01-2005 9:09am

Beruthiel wrote:

The part that fascinates me the most are the initiation rights, I would dearly love to know their true meaning and why it was necessary to make sure they were handed down
And perhaps, maybe, just maybe, they have knowledge as to where the infamous Arc of the Covenant could be*......

*that bits just wishful thinking on my part
Intriguing though!

Beruthiel, it might not be just wishful thinking. Read Graham Hancock's book The Sign and the Seal and see what you think. Within the book he touches on Hiram Abiff, the Masonic initiation rights and what they symbolize. I thought it was an adventure in print. When I read your post, I remembered I had it on the shelf. Even if it's all wishful thinking, it's still fascinating to speculate about the Ark!

Beruthiel · 22-01-2005 10:37am

thanks for that athena
just purchased off play.com!

athena 2000 · 24-01-2005 8:38am

You're welcome.

I guess you might call that book 'alternative archaeology' or something like that. I hope you enjoy it.

I was exploring in a used bookstore this weekend and discovered a book about the founding of the DeMolay organization for young men, and another incredible book about the Shriners full of memories and great photographs by a woman whose grandfather had been a lodge leader. The Shriners have done nothing but good that I can discover, and the hospitals for children they fund are true charities. If the Masons are the serious guys, then the Shriners are the fun boys playing dress-up as nobles and potentates. They're the ones that wear the fezzes.

Gillo · 03-02-2005 6:07pm

Slightly off topic but for those who managed to read the whole thread and found it interesting, there's a programme on Channell 4 tonight about "uncovering the DeVinci Code". Chances are it won't mention much of Freemasonary, but it should delve into the Priory Of Sion.

Also, a number of months ago I met two Senior masons from a lodge in Dublin, with regard to joining their lodge. They were slighlty secretive on the phone in they way that they introduced themselves (it was obvious to me what the call was about but if someone had been listening in they would not of known. Once I met them they were very nice and also very open about they are about.

angeltoes · 11-08-2005 9:49am

Surely it gets more dodgy as you go up the ranks ? Those at lower levels are kept in the dark until they work their way up the ranks.So why would they let those in lower ranks know too much when they might blab.They have to be assured of their commitment to the society and of course to keeping the secrets.

Talliesin · 11-08-2005 9:59am

angeltoes wrote:

Surely it gets more dodgy as you go up the ranks ?

Surely. :rolleyes:

kittenkiller · 11-08-2005 10:06am

I've been on a tour of their building in Dublin with a brief history of them included in the service.
My giuide was a charming jolly gentelman who answered any questions i had for him.

I'll tell you what, i'm going to one of their formal dinner dances in December, I'll let you know afterwards if i've been brainwashed or compromised in any way afterwards!

/off to buy posh frock now

Gillo · 12-08-2005 1:51pm

It's the same as most conspiracy theories, the total lack of evidence is what proves the point. People for some reason figure that because they can't find any evidence then the theory must be true, instead of coming to IMHO the more likely opinion that if there is no evidence their more than likely is nothing actually happening.

"Those at lower levels are kept in the dark until they work their way up the ranks"
While the reference your statement is trying to make is in my opinion completely wrong, in a different way you hit the nail on the head for the experiences of alot of freemason; I'd suggest that you read part 3 of "Turning the Hiram Key" by Robert Lomas.

angeltoes wrote:

Surely it gets more dodgy as you go up the ranks ? Those at lower levels are kept in the dark until they work their way up the ranks.So why would they let those in lower ranks know too much when they might blab.They have to be assured of their commitment to the society and of course to keeping the secrets.

Kitten Killer, whats the story with going on the tour, I've always wanted to do it, are there set times??

kittenkiller · 12-08-2005 3:36pm

Think it's afternoons.
Not sure if they're open to the public during the summer or not.
Will try to find out for you.
But i'm sure if you gave them a call, they'd be glad to answer any questions about tours etc.

Freemasons: Evil secret society or misunderstood nice guys...

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