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POE or Wireless or other option

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  • 04-06-2020 12:36pm
    #1
    insular1
    Registered Users Posts: 231 ✭✭


    Hi all, hope this thread is in the right place. I want to install a camera intercom device at my entrance which is about 90m from the house. There is already a duct running to the gate for out door lights but it takes a roundabout route and is around 150m long. So far what I have come up with is to run cat6 POE cable through the 150m duct with POE injector inside at the router and a POE extended about half way along the cat6 run. The main issue I'm coming up against is finding a waterproof POE extender as I can't guarantee the inside of the duct is waterproof. Otherwise is it possible to just use a normal POE extender and loacte it in a waterproof junction box?

    Am I missing any better options? Any wireless solutions I should be looking into? Thanks all.


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    #2
    ED E
    Registered Users Posts: 36,166 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    Nanostation on the house pointed at the gate should suffice if you've a nice clear driveway.

    You could raise up from the duct part way with a small weatherproof box and put a 5 port POE switch in there fed from your existing supply. Note you may not be able to use a POE injector for this task, would have to be as switch. The injector just commons the in and out data lines so won't reset your span length.


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    #3
    insular1
    Registered Users Posts: 231 ✭✭insular1


    ED E wrote: »
    Nanostation on the house pointed at the gate should suffice if you've a nice clear driveway.

    You could raise up from the duct part way with a small weatherproof box and put a 5 port POE switch in there fed from your existing supply. Note you may not be able to use a POE injector for this task, would have to be as switch. The injector just commons the in and out data lines so won't reset your span length.

    There is a couple of trees along the driveway but don't know if they'd interfere with the signal. Haven't heard of a nanostation though so will be looking into it.

    That's a great idea with the weatherproof box. Only issue is how to get power to the switch as I can't pull it from the lights or it would turn off any time the lights go off. Do passive POE switches extend ethernet past the 100m limit?

    If so would a set up like this work:

    Router---->indoor POE switch---->90m cat6---->passive POE switch in weatherproof box---->90m cat6---->POE intercom?

    Thanks for the reply.


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    #4
    ED E
    Registered Users Posts: 36,166 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    Never considered the lights being switched, d'oh! You can tell Im no spark.

    It wouldnt be a supported config for sure but its possible its one of those things that work anyways. I really don't know there. If you wanted I guess you could put the lights on a daylight sensor as a bodge to eradicate the supply problem. Depends if you only want them on for an hour a two or all night.


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    #5
    Gooey Looey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭Gooey Looey


    You could go with a standard 2 wire closed system intercom like a Comelit or AES. They work over twisted pair and are not bound by Ethernet 90m limits. You power it from the house over these same cores.


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    #6
    insular1
    Registered Users Posts: 231 ✭✭insular1


    Thanks for the replies.
    Gooey Looey wrote: »
    You could go with a standard 2 wire closed system intercom like a Comelit or AES. They work over twisted pair and are not bound by Ethernet 90m limits. You power it from the house over these same cores.

    What I liked about the POE systems is they can ring through to the phone instead of a dedicated device so even if I'm not home I can see someone's there. Not sure if those systems can?


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    #7
    Gooey Looey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭Gooey Looey


    insular1 wrote: »
    Thanks for the replies.



    What I liked about the POE systems is they can ring through to the phone instead of a dedicated device so even if I'm not home I can see someone's there. Not sure if those systems can?

    Yeah I just suggested it as an option. I'm pretty sure Comelit have models that connect to LAN in the house but you'd need to research. They will be pricey.

    I'm not a fan of Poe extenders, I've had bad experiences with them. Wouldn't recommend. If it were me I'd run a fibre and a power to an enclosure, be done with it, future proof.


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    #8
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users Posts: 13,999 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    Will the POE not function at 150m? Is that the problem?


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    #9
    Gooey Looey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭Gooey Looey


    Johnboy1951 wrote: »
    Will the POE not function at 150m? Is that the problem?

    Ethernet has a limit of 100m, 90m in the real world.


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    #10
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users Posts: 13,999 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    Gooey Looey wrote: »
    Ethernet has a limit of 100m, 90m in the real world.

    EDIT
    Ah yes ..... forgot about losses on the copper over the distance.


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    #11
    Gooey Looey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭Gooey Looey


    Johnboy1951 wrote: »
    At top speed ...... but that would not be needed for a gate camera.

    Ethernet does not work at all over 100m


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    #12
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users Posts: 13,999 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    Gooey Looey wrote: »
    Ethernet does not work at all over 100m

    see my previous edit ;)


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    #13
    insular1
    Registered Users Posts: 231 ✭✭insular1


    I hadn't considered fibre at all. Can POE work over fibre? That could be the ideal solution.


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    #14
    Gooey Looey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭Gooey Looey


    insular1 wrote: »
    I hadn't considered fibre at all. Can POE work over fibre? That could be the ideal solution.

    No power over fibre, it's glass, does not conduct, hence the mention of running power with the fibre. Then you can use fibre to Ethernet transceivers and a power over Ethernet adapter to power whatever Poe intercom


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    #15
    insular1
    Registered Users Posts: 231 ✭✭insular1


    Thanks for all the info. A lot more options to consider now. Will probably be back with more questions once I have priced a few of them.


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    #16
    Gooey Looey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭Gooey Looey


    insular1 wrote: »
    Thanks for all the info. A lot more options to consider now. Will probably be back with more questions once I have priced a few of them.

    You also have the option of sending low voltage over cat6 which could be ran with fibre


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    #17
    rugrat69
    Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭rugrat69


    You Could consider using some ethernet extension products that can supply ethernet 100mbps and POE+ up to potentially 600mtrs if you have a cat6 cable in place. Check out these units https://www.nvtphybridge.com/portfolio-item/nv-flxlk-bse/

    You can extend ethernet way beyond the traditional 90mtr IBN in building network parameters.

    I have used them before for an IP camera at a gate way with poly poly cable and it works perfectly with a number of pairs.

    On the fibre side if you go for that option the only devices you can get are POE enabled media converters which need to be powered at the endpoints. The good thing about the Phybridge units you don't have to break into the cable mid way and then weatherproof it like others out there.

    anyway hope that helps you out a bit more.


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    #18
    jjjulio
    Registered Users Posts: 30 ✭jjjulio


    https://www.telcoantennas.com.au/site/how-extend-wifi-coverage-using-ubiquiti-nanostation might help.


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    #19
    ED E
    Registered Users Posts: 36,166 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    Watched an LTT video the other day and thought of this thread. Ubi have the solution! Its a PoE switch that is both PoE Powered and PoE sending! Perfect for what you want to do.
    PoE In — RJ45 port supports 10/100/1000 Ethernet connections, and supports passive 24V, 2-pair PoE to power the switch.

    PoE Out — RJ45 ports support 10/100/1000 Ethernet connections, and the three passive 24V, 2-pair PoE ports provide up to 30W PoE output.
    https://www.ui.com/accessories/nanoswitch/


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    #20
    insular1
    Registered Users Posts: 231 ✭✭insular1


    ED E wrote: »
    Watched an LTT video the other day and thought of this thread. Ubi have the solution! Its a PoE switch that is both PoE Powered and PoE sending! Perfect for what you want to do.


    https://www.ui.com/accessories/nanoswitch/

    This is exactly what I was looking for! Brilliant thanks! Will update once I get around to ordering. Thanks all for the input.


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    #21
    Gooey Looey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭Gooey Looey


    insular1 wrote: »
    This is exactly what I was looking for! Brilliant thanks! Will update once I get around to ordering. Thanks all for the input.

    Have you found an intercom that takes 24v passive Poe?


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    #22
    insular1
    Registered Users Posts: 231 ✭✭insular1


    Gooey Looey wrote: »
    Have you found an intercom that takes 24v passive Poe?

    I was looking at this https://www.hikvision.com/en/products/Video-Intercom-Products/Doorbells/Pro-Series/DS-KB8112-IM/

    I think it's 12v but assumed this was when wiring it up and if using POE it would just work. Didn't even realise there were different voltages in POE! Feck, bit of a spanner in the works there.

    I'm starting to lean towards that nanostation and just running a separate power cable for the receiver at the gate. Anyone know if a single nanostation can broadcast to multiple receivers if I wanted to install a few camera's in different locations a few years down the line?


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    #23
    Gooey Looey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭Gooey Looey


    insular1 wrote: »
    I was looking at this https://www.hikvision.com/en/products/Video-Intercom-Products/Doorbells/Pro-Series/DS-KB8112-IM/

    I think it's 12v but assumed this was when wiring it up and if using POE it would just work. Didn't even realise there were different voltages in POE! Feck, bit of a spanner in the works there.

    I'm starting to lean towards that nanostation and just running a separate power cable for the receiver at the gate. Anyone know if a single nanostation can broadcast to multiple receivers if I wanted to install a few camera's in different locations a few years down the line?

    You can setup the Ubiquiti as an access point but you'll have to turn off AirMax if you want to connect more than one device. I would doubt you'll get it to work at 90m as whatever intercom you add would have a tiny antenna. You'd be better making a point to point link with 2x Nanostations


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    #24
    akasudonim
    Registered Users Posts: 119 ✭✭akasudonim


    insular1 wrote: »
    I was looking at this https://www.hikvision.com/en/products/Video-Intercom-Products/Doorbells/Pro-Series/DS-KB8112-IM/

    I'm starting to lean towards that nanostation and just running a separate power cable for the receiver at the gate.

    If you're thinking of a separate power cable to the gate then use a pair of powerline adapters to carry your data? Way easier than a nano.


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    #25
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users Posts: 13,999 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    https://www.hikvision.com/en/products/Video-Intercom-Products/Doorbells/Pro-Series/DS-KB8112-IM/

    This is the response I get :D
    Your current behavior is detected as abnormal, Please try again later...


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    #26
    insular1
    Registered Users Posts: 231 ✭✭insular1


    akasudonim wrote: »
    If you're thinking of a separate power cable to the gate then use a pair of powerline adapters to carry your data? Way easier than a nano.

    Sorry just seeing this now. I cant believe I didnt think of powerline adaptors! I have a couple in a drawer somewhere from before I installed a wifi mesh in the house so would essentially cost me nothing to set up. Would they work over a distance of 150m?


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    #27
    insular1
    Registered Users Posts: 231 ✭✭insular1


    insular1 wrote: »
    Sorry just seeing this now. I cant believe I didnt think of powerline adaptors! I have a couple in a drawer somewhere from before I installed a wifi mesh in the house so would essentially cost me nothing to set up. Would they work over a distance of 150m?

    Just wanted to update on this. The powerline adapter route work perfectly! Just set up a POE switch in a dribox at the end of the lights and have the hikvision vandal resistant doorbell above installed at the gate and rings through to the phone without issue. Also set it up with a hikvision NVR so have 24hr recording, not that there's much point to that where it's placed but if anyone is doing anything dodgy around the gate I'll definitely catch them :)

    Thanks for all the help really saved me a pile of time and money!


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    #28
    akasudonim
    Registered Users Posts: 119 ✭✭akasudonim


    insular1 wrote: »
    Just wanted to update on this. The powerline adapter route work perfectly! Just set up a POE switch in a dribox at the end of the lights and have the hikvision vandal resistant doorbell above installed at the gate and rings through to the phone without issue. Also set it up with a hikvision NVR so have 24hr recording, not that there's much point to that where it's placed but if anyone is doing anything dodgy around the gate I'll definitely catch them :)

    Thanks for all the help really saved me a pile of time and money!

    Hi that's great! Apologies I never saw your original reply to my post or your q re the distance. The powerlines were in my head for similar reason, just having got around to it yet, glad you tested it🙂


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