People that take up a seat on the bus for their bag

Force Carrier · 05-07-2019 7:44pm

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Charming.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESxRXECdMSk

Phil Jones just there throughout the whole incident. Would it have killed him to chip in something.

Boxing.Fan · 05-07-2019 8:07pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Likewise if someone has such a problem asking to move a bag, it’s probably time to get a car (equally ridiculous argument to the one above).

It’s just not a big deal. Simple assertiveness solves the problem in as little time as it takes to say “ could you move that bag please?”

But some people’s lack of assertiveness means I get a double seat to myself more often. It not good behaviour but it’s hardly a big problem.

I have a car, I need to use public transport twice a week as my other half needs the car for her job which is a lot harder to get to than where I work.

Nothing to do with lack of assertiveness. I've no problem asking someone to move their bag. Again, the point is I shouldnt have to. You absolutely do not need a seat for your bag.

El_Duderino 09 · 05-07-2019 8:26pm

Boxing.Fan wrote: »

I have a car, I need to use public transport twice a week as my other half needs the car for her job which is a lot harder to get to than where I work.

Nothing to do with lack of assertiveness. I've no problem asking someone to move their bag. Again, the point is I shouldnt have to. You absolutely do not need a seat for your bag.

Maybe you need a second car (obviously not because there is no real problem with bags on seats.

I didn’t suggest for a second that I need a seat for my bag. I just put it there so the meek will sit elsewhere instead of simply being assertive and asking me to move it. I get a greater chance of having 2 seats to myself. Everyone’s a winner.

rgmmg · 05-07-2019 8:32pm

An Irish friend of mine got on a train in London and there was a guy with a bag on the seat. He asked if it was free and the guy didn't respond but reluctantly moved his bag. My friend had a copy of the financial times, opened the pages portrait style with a crack and said "Now, that wasn't that difficult, was it?" whilst hidden in the newspaper. They both got off at London Bridge Station. The bagger followed my mate, "right up his ass", uttering stuff under his breath, at which point my pal said to a member of the british transport police "Sorry, this man is bothering me". Cue yer man being pulled aside. I know my pal sounds like a dck but he doesn't take sht

Sam Quentin · 05-07-2019 8:35pm

I'm not the overly aggressive assertive type,.so in this situation and similar situations that arise in my boring non confrontational life.... Well I go into my Mr Bean 'silent' mumbling mode,. looking at the bags and the person in rotational mode and making ushering gestures towards the offending bag... This works every time.

El_Duderino 09 · 05-07-2019 8:38pm

rgmmg wrote: »

An Irish friend of mine got on a train in London and there was a guy with a bag on the seat. He asked if it was free and the guy didn't respond but reluctantly moved his bag. My friend had a copy of the financial times, opened the pages portrait style with a crack and said "Now, that wasn't that difficult, was it?" whilst hidden in the newspaper. They both got off at London Bridge Station. The bagger followed my mate, "right up his ass", uttering stuff under his breath, at which point my pal said to a member of the british transport police "Sorry, this man is bothering me". Cue yer man being pulled aside. I know my pal sounds like a dck but he doesn't take sht

Making remarks hidden behind your newspaper is equally childish as making remarks walking behind your mate - FT notwithstanding. What's difficult about simply being assertive? Not snide, not hiding behind a newspaper and muttering, simply asserting a reasonable expectation because it's your right.

El_Duderino 09 · 05-07-2019 8:41pm

Sam Quentin wrote: »

Imy not the overly aggressive assertive type,.so in this situation and similar situations that arise in my boring non confrontational life.... Well I go into my Mr Bean 'silent' mumbling mode,. looking at the bags and the person in rotational mode and making ushering gestures towards the offending bag... This works every time.

Not assertive-aggressive, that’s passive aggressive. Why would any aggression be easier for you than simple assertiveness? Did nobody teach you how to simply speak to people to express a reasonable expectation or do you just prefer aggression to assertion?

tusk · 05-07-2019 9:24pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

What's difficult about simply being assertive?

For some of us it is VERY difficult. And that's just general life. Let alone potentially confrontational situations.

El_Duderino 09 · 05-07-2019 9:57pm

tusk wrote: »

For some of us it is VERY difficult. And that's just general life. Let alone potentially confrontational situations.

No need for any kind of confrontation. It’s simply stating what you want. For some it’s natural, for others it’s taught in childhood, for others it must have to be learned apparently. But not asking for what you want is a bit childish. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with simply stating reasonable expectation.

I’ve never had anyone do anything except move their bag as soon as asked.

the beer revolu · 06-07-2019 9:35am

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

No need for any kind of confrontation. It’s simply stating what you want. For some it’s natural, for others it’s taught in childhood, for others it must have to be learned apparently. But not asking for what you want is a bit childish. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with simply stating reasonable expectation.

I’ve never had anyone do anything except move their bag as soon as asked.

I think you are brilliant.
Really great guy.

El_Duderino 09 · 06-07-2019 10:07am

the beer revolu wrote: »

I think you are brilliant.
Really great guy.

I’m struggling to see the reason for such a strong emotional reaction to such a trivial issue. Well, it’s a non issue for people with basic adult levels of assertiveness.

the beer revolu · 06-07-2019 10:14am

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I’m struggling to see the reason for such a strong emotional reaction to such a trivial issue. Well, it’s a non issue for people with basic adult levels of assertiveness.

It's your perfectly tuned level of assertiveness that has garnered my admiration.
Fantastic.
Never aggressive, never meek.
Perfect.

is_that_so · 06-07-2019 10:20am

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I’m struggling to see the reason for such a strong emotional reaction to such a trivial issue. Well, it’s a non issue for people with basic adult levels of assertiveness.

Often our own views of what the world should be prevent us from seeing the world as it is. It's made up of all sorts including a lot of "non-assertive" people. Some people just don't like anything they might perceive as conflict, even something this "trivial" and will avoid it. It's really not a human failing and one can't really guess how anyone would respond in particular situations.

El_Duderino 09 · 06-07-2019 10:21am

the beer revolu wrote: »

It's your perfectly tuned level of assertiveness that has garnered my admiration.
Fantastic.
Never aggressive, never meek.
Perfect.

I’d say it’s the normal adult level of assertiveness. Why don’t you just say what you’re thinking rather than couch it in sarcasm and passive aggression? You know, normal assertiveness. The 2 posts above are demonstrating my point.

the beer revolu · 06-07-2019 10:42am

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I’d say it’s the normal adult level of assertiveness. Why don’t you just say what you’re thinking rather than couch it in sarcasm and passive aggression? You know, normal assertiveness. The 2 posts above are demonstrating my point.

OK, your posts make you sound like a complete twat with a very developed sense of self worth and no real awareness of other people.

Better?

I thought that was pretty obvious to any
anyone, really.

El_Duderino 09 · 06-07-2019 11:29am

the beer revolu wrote: »

OK, your posts make you sound like a complete twat with a very developed sense of self worth and no real awareness of other people.

Better?

I thought that was pretty obvious to any
anyone, really.

There you go. Straight from passive aggression to overt aggression. I use the middle ground of normal assertiveness. If you only have 2 strategies for dealing with situations, passive aggression and overt aggression, then maybe it’s best that you avoid those situations.

What has to happen to a person so they think simply asking someone to move their bag, demonstrates inflated self worth?

How do you normally deal with minor situations in real life? Serious question, do you know what I mean by normal adult assertiveness?

ginandtonicsky · 06-07-2019 11:31am

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Maybe you need a second car (obviously not because there is no real problem with bags on seats.

I didn’t suggest for a second that I need a seat for my bag. I just put it there so the meek will sit elsewhere instead of simply being assertive and asking me to move it. I get a greater chance of having 2 seats to myself. Everyone’s a winner.

What if the “meek” is someone with a hidden disability or a pregnant woman who isn’t showing yet? Right on you getting that double seat to yourself, go live that dream.

I’ve seen this a few times in New York and love watching it being addressed in typical NY fashion. I’ve seen one big black guy plonk himself down on top of a middle-aged yummy mummy type’s designer bag with her struggling to pull it out from under him and I’ve seen another woman point at someone’s bag and just say “move it, I’m sitting down”.

El_Duderino 09 · 06-07-2019 11:54am

ginandtonicsky wrote: »

What if the “meek” is someone with a hidden disability or a pregnant woman who isn’t showing yet? Right on you getting that double seat to yourself, go live that dream.

I’ve seen this a few times in New York and love watching it being addressed in typical NY fashion. I’ve seen one big black guy plonk himself down on top of a middle-aged yummy mummy type’s designer bag with her struggling to pull it out from under him and I’ve seen another woman point at someone’s bag and just say “move it, I’m sitting down”.

Ok. I haven’t used the word “meek” up to now. And all the person has to do is say “would you move the bag please?” And it’s “problem” solved.

You mentioned 2 very aggressive ways of dealing with a simple issue. As I’ve said a few times, normal adult assertiveness would solve the problem without any agro. I oppose some people like agro. That’s probably why they hide behind passive aggression or bottle it up until it comes out as overt aggression.

the beer revolu · 06-07-2019 12:38pm

I really don't think that saying that your posts make you come across as a complete twat is overly aggressive.
The more you post, the more my view is confirmed.

I would describe my earlier posts as humour, not passive aggression. Then you asked me to say what I mean, so I did. I know that sarcastic humour doesn't go down with everyone.

You could also claim that if someone stands in a doorway, blocking it, then someone wishing to use the doorway can simply ask them to move.
The fact that this is true doesn't take from the fact that blocking a doorway is a selfish and ignorant thing to do.

El_Duderino 09 · 06-07-2019 12:42pm

the beer revolu wrote: »

I really don't think that saying that your posts make you come across as a complete twat is overly aggressive.
The more you post, the more my view is confirmed.

I would describe my earlier posts as humour, not passive aggression. Then you asked me to say what I mean, so I did. I know that sarcastic humour doesn't go down with everyone.

You could also claim that if someone stands in a doorway, blocking it, then someone wishing to use the doorway can simply ask them to move.
The fact that this is true doesn't take from the fact that blocking a doorway is a selfish and ignorant thing to do.

Ok. Could you answer these two questions from the post above?

How do you normally deal with minor situations in real life? Serious question, do you know what I mean by normal adult assertiveness?

Deub · 06-07-2019 12:43pm

I just take it and run.

It seems to teach them a lesson to leave the sit free because when I see them again they keep thei bags on their lap.

the beer revolu · 06-07-2019 12:43pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

How do you normally deal with minor situations in real life?

None of your business.

Dakota Dan · 06-07-2019 12:47pm

Force Carrier wrote: »

Fcuk it on the floor.

The passenger or the bag?

Charles Babbage · 06-07-2019 12:49pm

Because someone's significant other is a bag is no reason to make her move.

flatface · 06-07-2019 1:05pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I don’t see the huge problem. I’ve a 3 hour train journey for work occasionally and I do it when there’s space. If someone wants to sit they can simply ask. I’ve never refused to move my stuff. It just means that some people who are too childish to assert themselves will find somewhere else to sit and I have a greater chance of having a double seat to myself.

I’ve also never had a problem asking someone to move their bag so I can sit. Never had anyone refuse either. I had a daily commute until recently and now I deal with it semi regularly and it seems like a non issue to me.

Why should someone have to be assertive in order to sit down on public transport? You strategically putting your bag on a seat for your own benefit is a pretty selfish and passive aggressive

El_Duderino 09 · 06-07-2019 1:06pm

the beer revolu wrote: »

None of your business.

Lol.i accept that it’s none of anyone’s business. I would think it would be easy to demonstrate your approach. So far all you’ve demonstrated is degrees of aggression and that you don't know what I mean by normal adult assertiveness. But that’s probably why some people see bags on seats as such a big problem. If they dealt with it assertively and without getting wound up, they’d probably be happier.

El_Duderino 09 · 06-07-2019 1:13pm

flatface wrote: »

Why should someone have to be assertive in order to sit down on public transport? You strategically putting your bag on a seat for your own benefit is a pretty selfish and passive aggressive

Yeah it’s a bit selfish. If there are plenty of seats the bag means people simply set elsewhere or ask to move it. Same as when I want to sit. I find a seat or ask someone to move their bag. I can’t for the life of me understand the emotional response.

Do some people stew on these things when they see a bag on a seat?

Yamanoto · 06-07-2019 1:30pm

Mr.S wrote: »

They are just placing their bag beside them, if there are no other free spaces, just ask them to move? I never got the issue with this.

I think you're being naive.

Many folks who stick their bag down know full well that not all people are prepared to ask them to shift. Now you might say that's the price you'll pay for being timid, but the lack of consideration for others is incontrovertibly the root cause.

silverharp · 06-07-2019 1:44pm

a while back i was on the inside of a bus seat and someone sat beside me, i get up to get off and he says "are you getting off?" did i need his permission? was he a ticket inspector?

BurnUp78 · 06-07-2019 1:49pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

The ones who sit on the outside to try keep the two seats to themselves. Dirt.

Oh this one really makes me seeth.

the beer revolu · 06-07-2019 2:10pm

BurnUp78 wrote: »

Oh this one really makes me seeth.

Why?
Why would someone sitting on an unoccupied seat bother you?

Outlaw Pete · 06-07-2019 3:04pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

It just means that some people who are too childish to assert themselves

Lack of assertiveness has nothing to do with maturity. There are many people on the autism spectrum (for example) that would actually stand as a result of your behavior. There are people that are timid and shy also that also might do similarly.

I get a double seat to myself more often. It not good behaviour but it’s hardly a big problem.

Not a big problem for you, no, but believe it or not, the world doesn't revolve around you.

ginandtonicsky · 06-07-2019 3:18pm

Yeah sorry El Duderino but it's just arsehole behaviour. You can't know the many range of reasons as to why it may be personally difficult to impossible for someone to have to ask you to remove your bag so they can take a seat.

It's not uncommon, lords knows there's heaps of you out there. Literally get on any Go Bus or City Link in Dublin city centre that's headed towards Galway or Cork and it's just rows of people bag-seating the whole way down who absolutely know that they're holding up needed seats for passengers. I've no problem telling someone I'm going to sit down and can they remove their bag, but my ability to do so doesn't make me "happier" and it's no different to having to tell someone yelling into their phone to shut the F up or having to tell someone to stop kicking your seat. General ignorant public transport behaviour.

Dakota Dan · 06-07-2019 3:45pm

silverharp wrote: »

a while back i was on the inside of a bus seat and someone sat beside me, i get up to get off and he says "are you getting off?" did i need his permission? was he a ticket inspector?

Probably being sarcastic seeing that you never said excuse me please I'm getting off here.

El_Duderino 09 · 06-07-2019 4:34pm

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Lack of assertiveness has nothing to do with maturity. There are many people on the autism spectrum (for example) that would actually stand as a result of your behavior. There are people that are timid and shy also that also might do similarly.

Not a big problem for you, no, but believe it or not, the world doesn't revolve around you.

I don’t suppose the world revolves around me. What a strange non sequitur.

Wouldn’t the autistic person (or whoever can’t resolve the situation simply) just sit in one of the empty seats? As I said earlier, I do it when there are other seats. I’m not suggesting I keep the bag on the seat whilst the pregnant woman goes into labour in the isle next to my bag, or the old man stands with his wooden leg next to my bag.

Nevin Parsnipp · 06-07-2019 6:04pm

It's a bit like the "smart" couple who book the window and aisle seats in the same row in an aircraft in the hope that no punter will go for the single middle seat and so yield for them the much prized empty seat.

Not very bad behaviour in the overall scheme of things ...but it's the sheer smartassedness of it that grinds most peoples gears...particularly if they exchange smug looks as the doors are closed.....gives me a bad attack of air rage so it does....

Strumms · 06-07-2019 7:27pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

What has to happen to a person so they think simply asking someone to move their bag, demonstrates inflated self worth?

I get on public transport with the intention of experiencing a quiet, comfortable and hassle free journey. I’m not budgeting my time or effort to having to engage with someone who believes in order for me or whoever to be able to sit down in comfort and rest in a desired non person occupied seat, that the onus is on that person to contact them and to request and negotiate with them for their comfort needs.

When the bus starts filing up, free up the seat. Not difficult. Problem with this ? Have the bag stowed in the luggage rack, problem with this ? fûcking walk or take a taxi, you get ONE seat and you have ZERO entitlement to decide how and when another person can have access to it.

BrokenArrows · 06-07-2019 7:35pm

Putting your bag on a seat is perfectly acceptable there are no more free double seats. And if you're in the back section of the bus you can keep the bag on the seat as long as you can still see free seats in front of you.

El_Duderino 09 · 06-07-2019 8:44pm

ginandtonicsky wrote: »

Yeah sorry El Duderino but it's just arsehole behaviour. You can't know the many range of reasons as to why it may be personally difficult to impossible for someone to have to ask you to remove your bag so they can take a seat.

It's not uncommon, lords knows there's heaps of you out there. Literally get on any Go Bus or City Link in Dublin city centre that's headed towards Galway or Cork and it's just rows of people bag-seating the whole way down who absolutely know that they're holding up needed seats for passengers. I've no problem telling someone I'm going to sit down and can they remove their bag, but my ability to do so doesn't make me "happier" and it's no different to having to tell someone yelling into their phone to shut the F up or having to tell someone to stop kicking your seat. General ignorant public transport behaviour.

Yeah it’s not great behaviour. I get the seat to myself while the person who can’t or won’t ask to move the bag (for whatever reason) sits elsewhere. I don’t see the big problem. All the seats are the same so if someone asks, they get the seat. If they don’t ask, they sit elsewhere.

I’m not suggesting anyone should stand if there are free seats.

El_Duderino 09 · 06-07-2019 8:49pm

Strumms wrote: »

I get on public transport with the intention of experiencing a quiet, comfortable and hassle free journey. I’m not budgeting my time or effort to having to engage with someone who believes in order for me or whoever to be able to sit down in comfort and rest in a desired non person occupied seat, that the onus is on that person to contact them and to request and negotiate with them for their comfort needs.

When the bus starts filing up, free up the seat. Not difficult. Problem with this ? Have the bag stowed in the luggage rack, problem with this ? fûcking walk or take a taxi, you get ONE seat and you have ZERO entitlement to decide how and when another person can have access to it.

Budgeting time and effort to engage with people on the bus? If “excuse me, will you move your bag please?” is beyond your budget, then maybe you’re right that someone needs to walk or get a taxi.

Jeez, talk about making a mountain out of a molehill. If you spent less time and effort making time/effort budgets, you might not be too uptight to simply assert yourself without getting wound up.

Strumms · 06-07-2019 9:40pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Budgeting time and effort to engage with people on the bus? If “excuse me, will you move your bag please?” is beyond your budget, then maybe you’re right that someone needs to walk or get a taxi.

Jeez, talk about making a mountain out of a molehill. If you spent less time and effort making time/effort budgets, you might not be too uptight to simply assert yourself without getting wound up.

I only get uptight when I’m forced to deal with wánkers who choose to use seats as luggage racks, when luggage racks are provided in plain view of 90% of the seats, thus potentially depriving a paying member of the public the opportunity to enjoy a peaceful, comfortable journey, without having to enter into a conversation with some strange knuckle dragger who has difficulty in comprehending people’s needs and entitlements to sit down,

play4fun1 · 06-07-2019 9:59pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Budgeting time and effort to engage with people on the bus? If “excuse me, will you move your bag please?” is beyond your budget, then maybe you’re right that someone needs to walk or get a taxi.

Jeez, talk about making a mountain out of a molehill. If you spent less time and effort making time/effort budgets, you might not be too uptight to simply assert yourself without getting wound up.

I just can't get my head around people like you

Never had I said "sorry could you move your bag", or why should I
Seats are for people and not your belongings, think it clear and simple
you are as bad as the people who place their feet on the seats

cursai · 06-07-2019 10:07pm

Some people were brought up differently. Manners is something that is hard taught.
There's always gonna be people who are leeches and rared like little yapping dogs.

El_Duderino 09 · 06-07-2019 11:13pm

Strumms wrote: »

I only get uptight when I’m forced to deal with wánkers who choose to use seats as luggage racks, when luggage racks are provided in plain view of 90% of the seats, thus potentially depriving a paying member of the public the opportunity to enjoy a peaceful, comfortable journey, without having to enter into a conversation with some strange knuckle dragger who has difficulty in comprehending people’s needs and entitlements to sit down,

Oh don’t mistake the situation. I doubt anyone who puts their bag on the seat, does so without knowing about the luggage rack. It just increases the chances of having extra space to themselves. I doubt these “knuckle draggers” and “wánkers” Gail to comprehend other people’s right to sit down. It just encourages people to sit elsewhere. When there are other seats available, it’s just not a problem. It’s a total non issue no matter how upset posters get about it.

El_Duderino 09 · 06-07-2019 11:20pm

play4fun1 wrote: »

I just can't get my head around people like you

Never had I said "sorry could you move your bag", or why should I
Seats are for people and not your belongings, think it clear and simple
you are as bad as the people who place their feet on the seats

You’ve never had to ask someone to move their bag, so why get so annoyed about it?

Putting bags on seats is not only as bad as as putting feet on seats, it’s as bad as terrorism. Maybe worse. Lol.

El_Duderino 09 · 06-07-2019 11:42pm

Socks absorb foot sweat so they’re very dirty I only do it with bare feet. It’s only good manners. Have to be considerate n’all

play4fun1 · 07-07-2019 10:47am

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

You’ve never had to ask someone to move their bag, so why get so annoyed about it?

Putting bags on seats is not only as bad as as putting feet on seats, it’s as bad as terrorism. Maybe worse. Lol.

hope that we meet on a bus/train/luas someday soon - I'll show you how I deal with bags on a seat

El_Duderino 09 · 07-07-2019 11:10am

play4fun1 wrote: »

hope that we meet on a bus/train/luas someday soon - I'll show you how I deal with bags on a seat

Let me guess. You, like an adult, say “ excuse me, would you move the bag, please?” I move the bag and we both pleasantly go about our day completely unaffected by the encounter?

Or some childish threat of aggression?

What I’ve learned form this thread is that some people get really annoyed about having to interact in even the most minor way. And people who don’t know how simply assert themselves pleasantly Are more inclined to use aggression.

But luckily for me I can ward off those people by simply placing a bag on the seat beside me safe in the knowledge that the people who will sit beside me are people who can assert themselves with a bit of manners.

Filters out the nut jobs. 😊

Strumms · 07-07-2019 12:09pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Filters out the nut jobs. 😊

‘Nut jobs’ as you so eloquently put it have an medical excuse for certain elements of their behaviors.. on the other hand, purebred wànkers really do not, same for bag wánkers. I’m really not sure which category you’d like to label yourself with but ‘self entitled bus bag wañker’ would cost a fortune to print on a T-shirt.

El_Duderino 09 · 07-07-2019 12:39pm

Id probably class myself as A Person with "normal adult ability to ask someone to move their bag without aggression,seething, or exaggerated emotionality".

But I don't tend to wear t-shirts with classifications of myself. Each to their own, so work away.

Also, you're suggesting all the people who object have a medical reason for doing so. I propose that some might but the others are just a bit childish and don't know how to assert themselves without aggression passive or overt. So they just seethe instead. In either case, they sit in another seat which is great for me because I have a greater chance of getting a double seat to myself and the people I share the seat with are the normal adults who can ask to move the bag like a normal, balanced human with manners.

People that take up a seat on the bus for their bag

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