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Ian Bailey case: Our civil liberties threatened

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    #122
    ash2020
    Registered Users Posts: 99 ✭✭ash2020


    I was listening to the news at 5, on the radio, and apparently Ian bailey had a film developed with some man (now deceased) some photos was that of a dead female body lying on the ground, the man that developed the photos made a statement to the guards.

    That alone is one damning piece of evidence.
    Ian bailey had scratches on his forehead, hands and arm, in his defence it was caused when he was supposedly plucking a Turkey 2 days before Christmas, however the judges denined this story and said the scratches were likely to be from the murder victim while she was struggling in self defense


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    #123
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    Varik wrote: »
    What evidence did they have in general.

    Did anything get handed over.

    I wonder if he’d agreed to co operate and brought a full legal team to defend himself, what would the verdict have been?


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    #124
    Simple_Simone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 152 ✭✭Simple_Simone


    ash2020 wrote: »

    I was listening to the news at 5, on the radio, and apparently Ian bailey had a film developed with some man (now deceased) some photos was that of a dead female body lying on the ground, the man that developed the photos made a statement to the guards.

    Did Bailey kill him too?


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    #125
    Simple_Simone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 152 ✭✭Simple_Simone


    splinter65 wrote: »
    I wonder if he’d agreed to co operate and brought a full legal team to defend himself, what would the verdict have been?

    The verdict was arrived at long before the show trial commenced.


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    #126
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Varik wrote: »
    What evidence did they have in general.

    Did anything get handed over.

    That's my point really. Complete farce.


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    #127
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,850 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Deleted User wrote: »
    What evidence did they have over in France that wasn't found in Ireland

    Stuff that would be inadmissable in Ireland as hearsay mostly it seems


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    #128
    Nobelium
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭Nobelium


    I don't know if Bailey did it or not, but there is something very strange about the massive focus always placed on this case.

    There's something we are not being told about this case.

    There's lots of murders in Ireland that end up going unconvinced, why is there such a massive fuss about this case compared to all the other unconvicted murderers in Ireland ?


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    #129
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,850 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Nobelium wrote: »
    I don't know if Bailey did it or not, but there is something very strange about the massive focus always placed on this case.

    There's something we are not being told about this case.

    There's lots of murders in Ireland that end up going unconvinced, why is there such a massive fuss about this case compared to all the other unconvicted murderers in Ireland ?

    Bailey kept himself in the media with the legal challenges


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    #130
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,976 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Simple_Simone wrote: »
    If Leo had a set of cojones, then he'd have sent a gunboat up the Seine to put manners on Macron and his herd of slack-jawed judicial macaroons. :mad:
    Leo has a lot to answer for but WTF could he have done here? It has absolutely nothing to do with him plus would be wrong for any Taoiseach to take a side in a criminal trial.


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    #131
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,430 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Simple_Simone wrote: »

    If Leo had a set of cojones, then he'd have sent a gunboat up the Seine to put manners on Macron and his herd of slack-jawed judicial macaroons. :mad:

    Did you really just suggest that ireland should invade France? :rolleyes:


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    #132
    Nobelium
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭Nobelium


    L1011 wrote: »
    Bailey kept himself in the media with the legal challenges

    There's a lot more to it than that


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    #133
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,465 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Simple_Simone wrote: »
    So let's have three hearty cheers for Johnny Frog and the Code Napoleon-based legal system that has just found Ian Bailey guilty of murder following a stitch-up trial that a West Belfast kangaroo court would admire and one that makes the Birmingham Six conviction seem watertight and legally sound!

    If Leo had a set of cojones, then he'd have sent a gunboat up the Seine to put manners on Macron and his herd of slack-jawed judicial macaroons. :mad:

    Mod: This is a forum for serious discussion. Please read the charter before posting again.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #134
    Franz Von Peppercorn II
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn II


    johnnyskeleton wrote: »
    With the greatest of respect to Prof. Walsh, he is using a definition of soverignty that I dont agree with, but which is used a lot by pro brexit people in the UK. Soverignty is the supreme power of the State to pass its own laws, and he acknowledges that they did have the power to prevent such surrenders but the Dail chose not to put that in. Thats the very definition of a soverign decision and to say that it amounts to a surrender of soverignty is a meaningless phrase. One might as well say that bin charges are a surrender of soverignty if one does not personally agree with them.

    I think you are confusing sovereignty with sovereignty of Parliament which actually doesn’t apply in Ireland. The dail is constrained by the constitution and thus by European laws that are encoded in it.

    sovereignty in general would mean that a country would decide its own laws and taxes without interference. In that sense Ireland isn’t legally totally sovereign, since we pool powers with the EU. That’s fine. We agreed to it.

    There is another sense where the state may be less than sovereign, political pressure from outside sources. Why didn’t we put that exemption in the codification of our response to the EAW?


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    #135
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    Seth Brundle wrote: »
    Leo has a lot to answer for but WTF could he have done here? It has absolutely nothing to do with him plus would be wrong for any Taoiseach to take a side in a criminal trial.

    The amount of people who don’t understand the very basics of international diplomacy is staggering and only matched by the amount who don’t understand basic justice.


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    #136
    Simple_Simone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 152 ✭✭Simple_Simone


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    Did you really just suggest that ireland should invade France? :rolleyes:

    Nope - just a warning shot or three should suffice. Although we could also consider arresting a few French trawlers while we're at it.

    Either we're an independent country or we're a French colony. And if Johnny Frog wants to treat us like a colony by pissing all over our legal system then we need to put manners on him.

    Interestingly, it is reported that "Within minutes of that verdict, a new arrest warrant had been dispatched electronically to the extradition section of the Department of Justice in Dublin." Further evidence that Johnny Frog knew what the verdict of this show trial would be long before it was arrived it!


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    #137
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,430 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Simple_Simone wrote: »
    Nope - just a warning shot or three should suffice. Although we could also consider arresting a few French trawlers while we're at it.

    Either we're an independent country or we're a French colony. And if Johnny Frog wants to treat us like a colony by pissing all over our legal system then we need to put manners on him.

    Interestingly, it is reported that "Within minutes of that verdict, a new arrest warrant had been dispatched electronically to the extradition section of the Department of Justice in Dublin." Further evidence that Johnny Frog knew what the verdict of this show trial would be long before it was arrived it!

    So Ireland, with it's tiny navy and small army should put it up to France, a nuclear power? A country that (if it chose) could be in total control of the island of ireland withing 48 hours? :pac:

    Also your use of the derogatory term "johnny frog" isn't really all that brave/edgy or even intelligent.


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    #138
    ash2020
    Registered Users Posts: 99 ✭✭ash2020


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    What evidence did they have over in France that wasn't found in Ireland

    In Ireland the cops are lazy sods!


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    #139
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,976 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    ash2020 wrote: »
    In Ireland the cops are lazy sods!
    ...almost as lazy as your post!


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    #140
    ash2020
    Registered Users Posts: 99 ✭✭ash2020


    Seth Brundle wrote: »
    ...almost as lazy as your post!

    Check my previous post few pages back!


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    #141
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,976 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    ash2020 wrote: »
    Check my previous post few pages back!
    erm, this one?
    ash2020 wrote: »
    I was listening to the news at 5, on the radio, and apparently Ian bailey had a film developed with some man (now deceased) some photos was that of a dead female body lying on the ground, the man that developed the photos made a statement to the guards.

    That alone is one damning piece of evidence.
    Ian bailey had scratches on his forehead, hands and arm, in his defence it was caused when he was supposedly plucking a Turkey 2 days before Christmas, however the judges denined this story and said the scratches were likely to be from the murder victim while she was struggling in self defense
    Is that meant to mean something? Think it through...
    Someone claimed to have seen incriminating photos but the gardai who want to frame Bailey didn't use them?

    Still doesn't mean anything in terms of your lazy comment.


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    #142
    ash2020
    Registered Users Posts: 99 ✭✭ash2020


    Seth Brundle wrote: »
    erm, this one?

    Is that meant to mean something? Think it through...
    Someone claimed to have seen incriminating photos but the gardai who want to frame Bailey didn't use them?

    Still doesn't mean anything in terms of your lazy comment.


    Any man that can do this to his wife, is liable for anything else. He is a vile human been and she be hung from the tallest tree.

    (Ms Thomas had a closed, blackened right eye. Another picture showed a bandage over her eye, in another bruises could be seen on her hand and she had a 4cm clump of hair pulled from her head)


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    #143
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,976 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    ash2020 wrote: »
    Any man that can do this to his wife, is liable for anything else. He is a vile human been and she be hung from the tallest tree.

    (Ms Thomas had a closed, blackened right eye. Another picture showed a bandage over her eye, in another bruises could be seen on her hand and she had a 4cm clump of hair pulled from her head)
    FFS grow up!

    If the photos are as you say damning evidence, why didn't the gardai/DPP make use of them, especially since the gardai wanted him to go down?

    Your earlier post is a lazy snide remark and completely without any foundation. Unable to defend this, you then go on to refer to the horrible assault (allegation?) of his partner and try and assume that this means he is also a murderer.
    Let's hope that you're never placed in front of such a biased jury!


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    #144
    ash2020
    Registered Users Posts: 99 ✭✭ash2020


    Stop been so childest, it is hardly an allegation when
    he admitted it himself

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/ian-bailey-admits-assaulting-partner-4615565.amp

    Aswell as a 3 judge jury finding him guilty
    I have also given you 4 pieces of information that you are finding it very hard to swallow, information of battery, a living eye witness, another journalist witness statement and a deceased man's statement with photograph evidence of a woman dead body lying on a ground

    The guards and dpp where obviously not doing there job fully or somebody had them all believe the cock and bull alibies from a man that thinks hes the pillar of society, hes not so clever now that judgement has been served

    How is that his a lazy post, have a nice day!

    Seth Brundle wrote: »
    FFS grow up!

    If the photos are as you say damning evidence, why didn't the gardai/DPP make use of them, especially since the gardai wanted him to go down?

    Your earlier post is a lazy snide remark and completely without any foundation. Unable to defend this, you then go on to refer to the horrible assault (allegation?) of his partner and try and assume that this means he is also a murderer.
    Let's hope that you're never placed in front of such a biased jury!


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    #145
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,976 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    ash2020 wrote: »
    Stop been so childest, it is hardly an allegation when
    he admitted it himself

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/ian-bailey-admits-assaulting-partner-4615565.amp

    Aswell as a 3 judge jury finding him guilty
    I have also given you 4 pieces of information that you are finding it very hard to swallow, information of battery, a living eye witness, another journalist witness statement and a deceased man's statement with photograph evidence of a woman dead body lying on a ground

    The guards and dpp where obviously not doing there job fully or somebody had them all believe the cock and bull alibies from a man that thinks hes the pillar of society, hes not so clever now that judgement has been served

    How is that his a lazy post, have a nice day!
    Christ almighty!
    How does any of that show how the gardai are lazy sods?

    You also make the incorrect assumption that because he hit his partner, he is guilty of murder. You also state that "she be hung from the tallest tree". For fecks sake - talk about victim blaming!
    Now please go away!


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    #146
    ash2020
    Registered Users Posts: 99 ✭✭ash2020


    Seth Brundle wrote: »
    Christ almighty!
    How does any of that show how the gardai are lazy sods?

    You also make the incorrect assumption that because he hit his partner, he is guilty of murder. You also state that "she be hung from the tallest tree". For fecks sake - talk about victim blaming!
    Now please go away!

    And what , an eye witness dosnt mean anything any more in the court of law? What about baileys fello journalist who remembered having a discussion to bailey about the time and place of the murdered victim, bailey claimed he didnt know about it until such a time, yet he told the journalist a different time, it's all on court record


    More truth will prevail of this man, and when it does I will come back and remind you of it!

    Good bye for now
    Watch this space


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    #147
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,976 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Two separate DPPs do not believe that Bailey has anything to answer for.
    The DPP report released in 2012 found that there was "no evidence linking him to the crime, including a chronic lack of forensic evidence against the Englishman"
    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/how-dpp-demolished-garda-case-on-bailey-26827539.html


    I presume that what you're referring to are the recollections fromPadraig Beirne and Michael McSweeney. What the DPP reports states regarding this is:
    Michael McSweeney in his statement dated 18 February 1997 says that Padraig Beirne phoned him at 2 p.m. approximately on 23 December 1996 and advised him to go to West Cork in relation to the incident.
    At 2.10 p.m. Padraig Beirne phoned Michael McSweeney back to say that he had been contacted by Ian Bailey who claimed he had photographs of the scene.
    At around 2.15 to 2.20 p.m. Bailey phoned Michael McSweeney stating that he had taken photographs of the scene. At statement 74(A) McSweeney states that Bailey was vague about the content of the photos and then went on to say that his girlfriend had taken them.
    No reference to Bailey having a picture of the deceased is to be found in any of McSweeney’s three statements. McSweeney is the witness who D/Sgt. Hogan described as not being co-operative. However, his statements appear objective, balanced and fair.
    ...and...
    Padraig Beirne’s statement is made five months after the murder.
    He states that Bailey phoned him at about 1.55 p.m. and offered him a picture of the deceased.
    Beirne says that he told Bailey that Michael McSweeney would collect the picture of the dead woman.
    Beirne says that Bailey also offered him pictures of the scene where the body was found but he was not interested in them.
    Beirne says that he gave Bailey, Michael McSweeney’s mobile phone number.
    We know from Michael McSweeney’s statement that Bailey phoned McSweeney.
    However, Michael McSweeney makes no mention of Bailey stating that he had a
    photograph of the deceased.
    Beirne says that he contacted Michael McSweeney and advised him of the
    conversation -agreement with Bailey.
    Michael McSweeney in his statement makes no mention of being told by Beirne that Bailey had a photograph of the deceased taken prior to her death which was to be picked up by him.
    Padraig Beirne’s statement is strange. With regard to the alleged pre-death photograph of Sophie, he is not supported in his recollection by Michael McSweeney, Dick Cross, Bailey or indeed anyone else.
    If Bailey had stated that he had a pre-death photograph of Sophie Toscan Du Plantier it is not credible that McSweeney would have forgotten such an important item from a media perspective.
    Michael McSweeney’s statement is taken less than two months after the murder. His recollection appears more logical and reliable than that of Beirne whose statement was taken five months after the murder.
    On balance it appears probable that the photograph never existed.
    It is clear from the file that Bailey had been trying to establish a journalistic career in this country.

    https://syndicatedanarchy.wordpress.com/2014/09/30/30/
    https://edoc.pub/sophie-toscan-du-plantier-dpp-file-2001-pdf-free.html

    But hey, let's not let the facts get in the way of your witch-hunt!
    Let's just assume that all gardai are lazy sods and that someone is guilty despite all the evidence to the contrary. :rolleyes:


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    #148
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    ash2020 wrote: »
    And what , an eye witness dosnt mean anything any more in the court of law? What about baileys fello journalist who remembered having a discussion to bailey about the time and place of the murdered victim, bailey claimed he didnt know about it until such a time, yet he told the journalist a different time, it's all on court record


    More truth will prevail of this man, and when it does I will come back and remind you of it!

    Good bye for now
    Watch this space


    Doesn't prove anything though


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    #149
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,465 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Ok, I'm not seeing much, if anything in the way of constructive political discussion so I am locking this.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



This discussion has been closed.
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