Dark - Netflix

Aidric · 30-06-2020 9:09pm

When I find myself getting up an hour earlier than usual to fit in an episode before work, then it's usually a good barometer of a series. The last series I did that for was Chernobyl.

Both series are meticulously written and challenging for the viewer. I'm only 1 and a half series in but this is gripping in the way good drama should be. The writers are often threading a fine line on plausibility but always fall on the right side. The acting is excellent across the board.

This was a really great interview with the Director and Writer which gave a good insight in to their line of thinking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scFjLF2y6VM

Slydice · 01-07-2020 12:11am

3.2: Ok. Still a lot of unknown I think. I guess. I'm not sure.

Those 3

guys (same guy) turning up for the murders. Oh the show production values is doing them really well. Terrifying atmosphere!

Sad moment when

the daughter was murdered with the pillow and the mother found out.

Hrududu · 01-07-2020 2:29pm

Remember when Mikkel being Jonas's father seemed complicated? I look back at those innocent days and see myself as a sweet summer child

I enjoyed series 3 but I felt it wasn't as strong as the earlier two. I felt things got incredibly convoluted. Not that it was ever a simple, easy to understand show before.

Things I didn't enjoy:

1. Too much time with Jonas/Martha being lectured by their older selves and being told what to do. And despite being lied to continuously by their older selves they would always just go ahead and do what they were told

2. Characters that were important earlier on not being around much. We saw very little of Mikkel. Noah didn't really show up until half way through

3. Not really understanding how the knot was broken this time around. When Claudia comes to Adam she tells him this is the first time they've had this conversation. She talks him into intervening at the moment of the apocalypse to get Jonas, and bring him to the alt world, with the intention of using their apocalypse to jump into the origin world. Once he does this he finds alt Eva and they have a chat. She knows he's there to kill her because she remembers being younger Martha, seeing Eva dead and this being the reason she turns against Adam. Only this time Adam doesn't kill her. But the only reason Adam is in the alt world at all is because Claudia had the chat with him. So how could he have been there before to kill Eva if Claudia had never had that chat with him in earlier cycles?

Christ just typing that out hurts my head.

4. In Season 1 the big shock was Mikkel being Jonas's father. In Season 2 it was Elisabeth and Charlotte being each others mothers. But in Season 3 we get a good clear shot of a family tree early on so we could see how everyone was related. We were getting acres of plot just handed to us. And they never actually got around to showing these things happening until about 2 episodes before the end. They all got rushed while we're pausing and thinking "Ok so Bartosz is Noah and Agnes's father..." press play "...oh Tronte is Regina's father..." pause "...but that means Tronte is Bartosz grandfather, and also his grandson..." play "...wait Martha and Jonas have an infinity baby?..." pause "....Tronte is NOT Regina's father?" And so on. It was information overload

Things I did enjoy:
1. Seems wrong to say I enjoyed this, but that entire scene in the caravan when Elisabeth came home alone and found the intruder. I spent the entire scene completely tensed.

2. Similarly. Katharina's demise had me watching in horror. Scenes like this and the last one were so well done. They reminded me of the horror of watching Ulrich when he attacked young Helge.

3. Claudia. Queen. I loved her 80s fashions and the fact that she was smarter than everyone else at all times. Memories of her showing up in the 2019/2020 timeline. Discovering what the internet was and using it to google for information. Adapts and learns all the time.

fritzelly · 02-07-2020 3:10am

So I remember watching episode one when it was originally released not knowing anything about the show bar some kid goes missing and gave up half way through thinking I can't be arsed with a foreign thriller/missing kid show
Coupla days ago saw a Guardian (I think it was) review about season 3 and totally singing its praises - didn't even realise it was about time travel when watching that first episode

But by god, after binge watching the first 2 seasons, my mind is blown.
I don't know if I've got in me right now to watch season 3 while my brain tries to sort out everything that has happened so far
This is up there with my favourite shows like Person of Interest

Someone please tell me there is a satisfying ending....

GLaDOS · 02-07-2020 10:43am

Glad I'm not the only one who found it difficult to follow at times. Was happy with how it ended but I felt like a lot of the content of s3 was overly convoluted and at times I found it hard to really care.

the amount of people who were killed, then seemingly contued on regardless really melted my brains! Hard to care about somone dying when it seemingly has no consequences. Took me a minute to understand the gravity of Katherina being killed because it actually was final.

S1 and 2 are amongst the best television Netflix has produced, s3, while not terrible, is not up to the same standard.

youcancallmeal · 03-07-2020 9:58am

Just finished the 3rd season after binging all 3 during the last couple of weeks.

Season 1 was slow to start to start but when it got going it really drew me in. Season 2 was okay. Season 3 was better than 2 but not as good as 1. I had a few problems with the show, first was the amount ponderous exposition that added nothing to the story. I guess the writers thought that it sounded cool and added atmosphere. Far too many scenes with Jonas and Martha looking at each other not saying much and just crying, it lost its dramatic effect after 3rd or 4th time. When the origin was finally revealed I felt it made a lot of the events of Season 2 and 3 seem pointless. Despite all this I thought overall it was a good show and possibly worth a rewatch in future to pick up on the details I missed first time round.

Slydice · 03-07-2020 10:04pm

3.3: What the f***! I think that maybe the writers were like.. let's givem a lil hope they have a clue what's going on... Until episode 3... but like.. I guess they took

one world before this and went all in. Why would'nt they go all in on two worlds!

So yeah, that's a pretty solid hook! Need to know!

03-07-2020 10:07pm

Yeah, I dunno..I thought season 2 was a bit dragged out, and just found I'd not much interest at all in the last season..
It was a struggle..I checked a few minutes into ep 7 to see what was left and was just glad there wasn't another 5 episodes..

Relikk · 03-07-2020 10:17pm

youcancallmeal wrote: »

Far too many scenes with Jonas and Martha looking at each other not saying much and just crying, it lost its dramatic effect after 3rd or 4th time.

Yeah, that got tiresome. It reminded me how irritating Star Trek Discovery season 2 was with the amount of it there as well (apart from the horrendous writing and just how bad it was in general).

ManOfMystery · 04-07-2020 1:07am

Finished s3 tonight. Just superb all round, and I mean from s1 right up to the finale. The level of detail and complication in the storyline is astounding. With that in mind, I thought they did a thoroughly good job of tying up the story neatly and also doing justice to most of the characters, even if the ending was a little bittersweet.

I think some rewatches will be warranted. I’m already seeing a lot of things on social media which show how well the writers planned all this out - such as way back

when Bartosz is in the lake in with the others and tells them the story of the lady in the dress at the bottom of it, all of them unaware it’s their own mother lying down there after she was killed by HER mother. Crazy stuff.

fritzelly · 05-07-2020 1:05am

I'm not really reading the thread for season 3 but...

Jonas was killed in episode 5 at an early age - how the hell can he exist in the future/older age????

No spoiler please - watching episode 6 now...

fritzelly · 05-07-2020 2:04am

So to answer my own question

Alternative reality - hmmm - went along with alternative worlds but alternative reality on the same world? Show jumped the shark on that one

Mike Litoris · 05-07-2020 1:18pm

Goddammit that was the best thing I've ever watched. I'm gutted and relieved it's over, I don't think my brain could take any more! I cant remember being so happy with an ending either.

Even when I hadn't a clue what the hell was going on it was still enthralling. There was that constant sense of foreboding. Such a well made show in every sense.

I'll give it a few days but cant wait to rewatch it.

Slydice · 05-07-2020 6:32pm

3.4: I mean like.. Adam

makes it sound like he's clearing things up by saying it's the kid of Jonas and Martha but I'm not getting it. I assume some technology will be involved and it's still unclear how it could have begun. Also still unclear as to why the second world apocolypse seemed so much worse

Powerful scene in the doctors waiting room with the young girl

Slydice · 09-07-2020 8:35pm

3.5: Whew! :eek: It's over!

Jeez, I thought the scene in the camper van was violent.

:eek:

Then robbing the mother at knife point turning into being killed by the mother!

:eek:

Then the 3 .. well 4 Marthas and then Jonas is dead... but like he's supposed to be Adam. Like how's this gonna pan out.

So many questions!

Mike Litoris · 10-07-2020 1:28am

Slydice wrote: »

3.5: Whew! :eek: It's over!
Jeez, I thought the scene in the camper van was violent.
:eek:
Then robbing the mother at knife point turning into being killed by the mother!
:eek:
Then the 3 .. well 4 Marthas and then Jonas is dead... but like he's supposed to be Adam. Like how's this gonna pan out.

So many questions!

Man, it's so good. Seriously, make the last episode an event when you get to it! I'm struggling to think of another show that had such a satisfying ending.

Rewatching the whole thing is bananas with the knowledge of whats going on!!

pixelburp · 10-07-2020 9:59am

Finally popped on episode 1 of Season 3 and ah, Dark, I missed you. That constant sense of teetering on the very edge of bewilderment, but never dropping over the edge; all the while loving the swagger and heady sense of the European this show always had. I'd struggle to get behind an English language remake 'cos in many ways the deep apocalyptic foreboding threaded throughout feels at home in the Germanic setting (or at least a stereotypical version of it).

Homelander · 10-07-2020 1:02pm

Dark is an absolute masterpiece by which future shows will be judged. I am going to watch the finale again today, after watching it last night.

ManOfMystery · 10-07-2020 1:44pm

Homelander wrote: »

Dark is an absolute masterpiece by which future shows will be judged. I am going to watch the finale again today, after watching it last night.

I agree. It's a shame that so many people don't know of it or choose to ignore because it's not an English speaking show. My sister skipped past it until I told her to give a couple of episodes a chance, she's now hooked and working through S2.

The finale showed how to tie up a show properly (GoT, take note) .... yet the show will never have the mass popularity of something like GoT. It might if they remade it in UK/America, but then it will likely lose much of its magic.

Mickeroo · 10-07-2020 1:46pm

ManOfMystery wrote: »

The finale showed how to tie up a show properly (GoT, take note) .... yet the show will never have the mass popularity of something like GoT. It might if they remade it in UK/America, but then it will likely lose much of its magic.

And probably be stretched out to 8 seasons.

Keyzer · 10-07-2020 1:50pm

I devoured season 3 - have been watching Dark since it was released, complete fluke I ended up watching it.

Such a well made and thought out show, from start to finish. Thoroughly satisfying ending.

If you like this then you should watch the Leftovers. Another masterpiece of television.

the sword · 10-07-2020 1:55pm

I would rank it as the most satisfying show I have watched from start to finish, it wasn't dragged out in my opinion and handled aspects of time travel perfectly.

My only complaint would be the volume of characters in the final season was slightly hard to follow, but nonetheless great.

A english language remake wouldn't be the same, the simplistic German town setting was perfect. Usually with these type shows in the US, there is a shadowy government conspiracy at the end of it all.

Keyzer · 10-07-2020 3:05pm

the sword wrote: »

My only complaint would be the volume of characters in the final season was slightly hard to follow, but nonetheless great.

True, I found it hard to keep track also but it was worth it in the end.

ManOfMystery · 10-07-2020 5:19pm

the sword wrote: »

A english language remake wouldn't be the same, the simplistic German town setting was perfect. Usually with these type shows in the US, there is a shadowy government conspiracy at the end of it all.

Agreed. The closest they'd get with an American version would be some remote North American (Alaska for example) setting but I just couldn't see it working the same, the Germanic feel, background and tone throughout Dark were part of the reason it worked so well.

Slydice · 10-07-2020 10:47pm

3.6: :eek:

Jofspring · 10-07-2020 10:56pm

Finished it and it was a top class show. Once again I got absolutely lost but no matter how lost you get it manages to find it's way to explain itself that everything clicks together for you. I will probably watch season 3 again.

Such a pity so many people I know won't bother their arse because it's in German. It will definitely get an anerican re-make. You could easily see it set in somewhere like Wisconsin. Something similar to Fargo. If they get the same people involved in the re-make it could work but you just know they will give it to someone that will try put their own stamp on it and make a balls of it.

alchemist33 · 10-07-2020 11:07pm

pixelburp wrote: »

Finally popped on episode 1 of Season 3 and ah, Dark, I missed you. That constant sense of teetering on the very edge of bewilderment, but never dropping over the edge; all the while loving the swagger and heady sense of the European this show always had. I'd struggle to get behind an English language remake 'cos in many ways the deep apocalyptic foreboding threaded throughout feels at home in the Germanic setting (or at least a stereotypical version of it).

I dropped over the edge of bewilderment quite a few times in s3, which was a whole different league of complex than what went before.

I enyoyed it, and the end was satisfying, but I felt it was a good bit poorer than the rest. Some scenes, phrases, images and the rain - oh, the rain - were overdone, and they dragged for me.

Homelander · 11-07-2020 2:44pm

the sword wrote: »

A english language remake wouldn't be the same, the simplistic German town setting was perfect. Usually with these type shows in the US, there is a shadowy government conspiracy at the end of it all.

There's a Danish show on Netflix called "The Rain", really enjoyed the first season until the very end when it went down a video-game style path like that...killed it stone dead for me, didn't watch the 2nd season.

Thinking of starting Twin Peaks now after watching Dark. Crops up a good bit on lists of things to check out along with the Leftovers, which I've already seen. Fantastic show as well though not as emotionally crippling as Dark in my opinion.

Slydice · 11-07-2020 4:59pm

3.7: Questions being answered here. What happened to who and stuff but

that looked like the current-most-furtherest-along Adam/Jonas shown to be wrong but then Claudia who is-she-still working for Eve turns up and is it for her plan or Eves or is there something more going on.

All this including a fair few :eek: moments.

Mike Litoris · 11-07-2020 5:42pm

Slydice wrote: »

3.7: Questions being answered here. What happened to who and stuff but
that looked like the current-most-furtherest-along Adam/Jonas shown to be wrong but then Claudia who is-she-still working for Eve turns up and is it for her plan or Eves or is there something more going on.
All this including a fair few :eek: moments.

1 left. Get ready for it!

Optimalprimerib · 12-07-2020 8:07am

Sadly after season 2 episode 5 I think I am done with it. There is far too much filler and philisophical exposition without any great reward or saying anything really. Alot of the time, reveals are made to characters visually without the audience been shown through letters/photographs etc which contrives the "slow-burn" then for a snippet at the very end of the episode.

The story in the first season was interesting but the second season is weak in my opinion.

Homelander · 12-07-2020 8:40am

That's interesting. Obviously, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I thought S2 was better than S1 as things started to come a bit more together in terms of the overall plot.

Interestingly, S1 is the "lowest" rated season on IMDB and Rotten Tomatoes, though it's still almost 9/10.

One thing I would dispute though is "filler", everything is important in the end, there is honestly almost zero filler in my opinion in the show. There is nothing left unexplained by the end of S3, and pretty much everything that has happened up until that point plays a critical role.

It's why I think it's one of the best TV shows ever made - the way everything is tied together, and wrapped up, is phenomenal and faultless.

They would have to have had the entire 3 seasons and story planned before they even made episode 1, this wasn't made up as they went along.

Mike Litoris · 12-07-2020 9:00am

Optimalprimerib wrote: »

Sadly after season 2 episode 5 I think I am done with it. There is far too much filler and philisophical exposition without any great reward or saying anything really. Alot of the time, reveals are made to characters visually without the audience been shown through letters/photographs etc which contrives the "slow-burn" then for a snippet at the very end of the episode.

The story in the first season was interesting but the second season is weak in my opinion.

Stick with it. I didn't enjoy S02 anywhere near as much as 1 for much the same reasons. I felt a lot of the mystery and intrigue was replaced with more confusion but don't deny yourself season 3 and it's conclusion. Even the first episode of 3 will make up for things!

Cina · 12-07-2020 12:48pm

I must be the only one here who didn't like season three?

Personally I found the ending incredibly disappointing and unsatisfactory. For a show that spent three seasons being so convoluted and giving the impression it was some wonderfully woven and tight-knit plot, to get such a basic/simple/boring explanation for the event that essentially renedered all the characters we've seen over the last three seasons irrelevant just didn't work for me at all.

And season three in general was just a mess. The first two seasons were confusing but largely worked because there were 3 versions of each character, 3 timelines (well, mainly), and you knew it. Introducing another world and then other versions of characters only a few weeks/months apart from each other just made everything seem so damn all over the place to me.

So yeah, crap. First two seasons are still great, though.

Hrududu · 12-07-2020 1:53pm

Homelander wrote: »

One thing I would dispute though is "filler", everything is important in the end, there is honestly almost zero filler in my opinion in the show.

I felt like we seemed to spend a lot of scenes with Jonas and Martha just staring and crying at each other. But the real “filler” for me in S3 was having to spend time explaining everything to alt Martha. Endless scenes of her disbelief meanwhile we’re all “come on we’ve done all this already get on with it.”

Redsoxfan · 12-07-2020 5:04pm

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Just a quick question which maybe nobody has the answer...
from what we know mads was taken from 1986 and his body was dumped in 2019.
The ginger lad and Yasim's bodies are taken from 2019 and dumped in 1953.
With all three, they had the "burn" marks on their faces from whatever the electrical device that went around their head whilst in the "room". What was that device and what were those involved (obviously including Helge) trying to do?
It can't have been creating a time machine because we know that they were able to travel through time to dump the bodies.

Really enjoyed Dark overall but really can't see the point of the missing children (aside from Mikkel). Were they all taken by Noah and Helge for experiments? And how would they know if the experiments were successful or not etc?

freak scence · 12-07-2020 6:01pm

Redsoxfan wrote: »

Really enjoyed Dark overall but really can't see the point of the missing children (aside from Mikkel). Were they all taken by Noah and Helge for experiments? And how would they know if the experiments were successful or not etc?

they wouldn't have died and would have time traveled

Slydice · 12-07-2020 6:04pm

Finished! Great stuff! Can't believe they wrapped it so well!
Stuck the landing! Superhero landing for a show so complicated!

Overall: This show is a complicated and massive science fiction epic!
It's really well made! The story was complicated but really well thought out.
Mature audiences only for all kinds of reasons including intense graphic violence.

3.8: Writers being like.. No big deal, we got this! I'm being like: Woah! :eek:
Really

liked the everyone-coming-to-terms with what was happening montage at the end.

Wouldn't mind knowing

just where to look to see when Claudia came to the idea

but I think I'll be grand without a rewatch at least to give me some time to process!

Slydice · 12-07-2020 6:25pm

Just caught up with the thread. Many thanks given. Also..

ManOfMystery wrote: »

I think some rewatches will be warranted. I’m already seeing a lot of things on social media which show how well the writers planned all this out - such as way back
when Bartosz is in the lake in with the others and tells them the story of the lady in the dress at the bottom of it, all of them unaware it’s their own mother lying down there after she was killed by HER mother. Crazy stuff.

:eek:

Redsoxfan · 12-07-2020 6:27pm

freak scence wrote: »

they wouldn't have died and would have time traveled

Aye, but how would Noah have known?

All that fandango · 12-07-2020 6:30pm

Started giving this a go but as soon as I seen all the dead birds falling in the middle of the night early on in Season 1 that was the deal breaker for me.

freak scence · 12-07-2020 7:48pm

Redsoxfan wrote: »

Aye, but how would Noah have known?

they were conducting them

Irish_rat · 12-07-2020 9:25pm

Homelander wrote: »

Thinking of starting Twin Peaks now after watching Dark

Season 1 of Twin Peaks is excellent but only about 2/3 episodes of the second season are worth watching

Jofspring · 12-07-2020 10:35pm

Redsoxfan wrote: »

Aye, but how would Noah have known?

Because the bodies would have been gone meaning they time travelled. The kids never left the room and died in the devices that Noah and Helge built so they knew they hadn't travelled through time because their dead bodies were there in front of them.

Jofspring · 12-07-2020 10:37pm

All that fandango wrote: »

Started giving this a go but as soon as I seen all the dead birds falling in the middle of the night early on in Season 1 that was the deal breaker for me.

Really? Why? Can't see what would be off putting by that. It's given a fairly good explanation why this happens also.

All that fandango · 13-07-2020 12:18am

Jofspring wrote:

Really? Why? Can't see what would be off putting by that. It's given a fairly good explanation why this happens also.

No reason other than I just thought it was a bit daft to be honest. Different strokes...

Uncharted · 13-07-2020 8:35am

All that fandango wrote: »

Started giving this a go but as soon as I seen all the dead birds falling in the middle of the night early on in Season 1 that was the deal breaker for me.

Dead birds cant fly though.....

Homelander · 13-07-2020 11:47am

I do see a lot of people asking things like "Why did this character do this", or "why didn't they do this instead".

There's actually a really simple answer for this tied into the premise of the show which becomes abundantly clear in S3.

Basically -

everything happens this way because it's how it always happened before as part of the infinite loop created in both worlds when Tannhaus destroyed the origin world and divided it into the two alt-worlds.

While S1 is presented as a linear development and we follow it that way, in S3 we learn it's actually an infinite, predetermined loop that cannot be changed by any of the characters who exist within the loop.

So, what we actually see in S1, is an infinite cycle that has happened forever, and was never linear as it came into instant being the moment Tannhaus destroyed origin world....and young Jonas, Stranger Jonas or other characters like Ulrich, were always entirely powerless to change anything about it.

In fact in most cases their actions inadvertently advance the loop, eg, Ulrich battering Helge, Stranger Jonas attempting to destroy the tunnel in 2019, and so on....all pre-determined actions to maintain the infinite loop, they just don't realise it.

So, everything - the past, the present, the future, the beginning and end, all the players at different points in time - all came into existence simultaneously and instantly in an infinite loop that cannot be broken from within.

Therefore to addres an earlier question, Noah has to keep building the experimental time machines in 1986 to eventually successfully send Helge back to 1953; likewise, he has to fail with Erik and Yassin so their bodies appear in 1953 and trap Ulrich there, accused of their murders. This all has to happen exactly like this because it has always happened this way to maintain the loop.

Basically without Claudia finding the loophole in S3, the alt-world would continue to cycle for eternity in the exact same way and never be broken, with all players repeatedly fulfulling their predetermined destiny while never realising they have no free will.

Homelander · 13-07-2020 12:03pm

ManOfMystery wrote: »

I think some rewatches will be warranted. I’m already seeing a lot of things on social media which show how well the writers planned all this out - such as way back
when Bartosz is in the lake in with the others and tells them the story of the lady in the dress at the bottom of it, all of them unaware it’s their own mother lying down there after she was killed by HER mother. Crazy stuff.

This one blew my mind in particular, though there are so many things of this nature in the show that you forget or miss...I had to watch some episodes a few times before certain things clicked.

For example, when I watched S3, I completely forgot about the scene at the tunnels in 1921 at the start of S2E1....which is actually

young Noah murdering his own father.....older Bartosz.

I actually watched that scene again after S3 and it carries even more haunting weight when you know the full story from their time in the past.

In general.....

so many grim, horrific lives and ends for so many of the characters who were nothing but desperately loyal to Jonas/Adam, including Noah himself, not to mention Hannah, etc.

There are so many more I can't recall right now, but the way everything is so tightly bound is just incredible.

It is nice though that

the Younger Jonas we've been following manages to destroy the loop without ever having turned into Adam or gone through the hell his older self has, or alt-Martha having gone through the similar, corrupted cycle that leads to Eva.

Also interesting that in the end,

this exact version of younger Jonas and this exact version of young alt-Martha have never actually met until that point....yet they still share an unexplained bond concreted by their cosmic link outside of time and space in the tunnel of light.

So Jonas and Martha, in every world and reality, were predestined to always be together and just before they disappear they both realise this, when Jonas repeats "We are perfect for each other. Never believe anything else." Even though this isn't "his" Martha, the universe clearly has shown that every Jonas and every Martha inevitably belong together

Very bittersweet. Whole show is just a masterpiece.

cdgalwegian · 16-07-2020 9:57am

This is biblical.
And a sort of Greek mythology. Well in its use of symbols at least, with an apocalypse thrown in for good measure. Heady stuff.

The anticipation after season 2 was very high for this season, and towards the end of season 3 it was almost unbearable; the finale didn't fail to deliver. Fantastic.

Dramatically this has a burgeoning love story at its heart, yet underneath this is a story instigated by

the ‘Origin World’ Tannhaus, where he is a reworking of 'Frankenstein; or, The Modern Prometheus'. He tries to bring lost loves back to life through the science of the day, but in doing so unleashes a monster; the 'monster' he created though wasn't a creature, but a wormhole, which creates a subsequent infinite loop of tragedy

.
The love story, it turns out,

is the means by which the loop is perpetuated. As ever with the clever use of symmetry, escaping the loop, initiated by one person’s tragic motivations (Tannhaus), was initiated by the tragic motivations of another person (Claudia)

Incredibly cleverly conceived and executed tv drama.

Dark - Netflix

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