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Speed limit change 120/80km (was I caught?)

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    #32
    Ultimanemo
    Registered Users Posts: 890 ✭✭✭Ultimanemo


    Seth Brundle wrote: »
    Absolute nonsense.
    If you are unable to drive, then don't! As I mentioned, I cycle (and drive) along there and would prefer if incompetent drivers were not sharing the same roadspace as me!
    It is becoming ideology, if I cycle I have the right to say any sh*t and people have to agree, if the speeding cars are imposing any danger to you and you cycle there then you are an idiot


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    #33
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,976 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Ultimanemo wrote: »
    It is becoming ideology, if I cycle I have the right to say any sh*t and people have to agree, if the speeding cars are imposing any danger to you and you cycle there then you are an idiot
    1. What sh*t have I posted?
    2. Speeding cars do pose a danger to all road users.
    3. I'm an idiot for travelling to work in a completely legal manner? Why is that?


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    #34
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    Ultimanemo wrote: »
    It is becoming ideology, if I cycle I have the right to say any sh*t and people have to agree, if the speeding cars are imposing any danger to you and you cycle there then you are an idiot

    If one cant act in consideration to other road users, theres really no place for them on the road. Be it pedestrian, cyclistist, motorist.


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    #35
    TheW1zard
    Registered Users Posts: 1,340 ✭✭✭TheW1zard


    tuxy wrote: »
    Not necessarily. It depends on the car you are driving and the size of wheel and many other factors. But generally it is set low enough that it never under reads even if you make a number of changes to your car.

    I've measured mine using GPS and drive past Go Safe vans at 105 km/h on my speedometer but it will be different for everyone.
    The kind of people who don't understand this kind of thing are not capable of paying enough attention to adhere to speed limits anyway.

    What speed does it say on your gps when you go 105kph on your speedo!?


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    #36
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    TheW1zard wrote: »
    What speed does it say on your gps when you go 105kph on your speedo!?

    About 97kmh on GPS when the speedometer shows 105 but it has been very different for other cars I've owned. One had 17" wheels when it came with 15" and that car showed exactly 100 when my GPS showed 100


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    #37
    TheW1zard
    Registered Users Posts: 1,340 ✭✭✭TheW1zard


    tuxy wrote: »
    About 97kmh on GPS when the speedometer shows 105 but it has been very different for other cars I've owned. One had 17" wheels when it came with 15" and that car showed exactly 100 when my GPS showed 100

    About 9.2%
    Lets say 10 lol


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    #38
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    TheW1zard wrote: »
    About 9.2%
    Lets say 10 lol

    Yes but 0% on another car I had.


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    #39
    TheW1zard
    Registered Users Posts: 1,340 ✭✭✭TheW1zard


    tuxy wrote: »
    Yes but 0% on another car I had.

    If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle


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    #40
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    TheW1zard wrote: »
    If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle

    Where are you getting the 10% figure from?
    Any official sources?

    I also drive a Skoda Octavia frequently where the reading shows 100 km/h and GPS shows 98km/h


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    #41
    Zatoichi
    Registered Users Posts: 535 ✭✭✭Zatoichi


    Posted up at Woodies on the N4 tonight with the new handheld camera. Someone overtook me doing well over 90 just as we came up to them but they didn't seem too bothered.


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    #42
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    Zatoichi wrote: »
    Posted up at Woodies on the N4 tonight with the new handheld camera. Someone overtook me doing well over 90 just as we came up to them but they didn't seem too bothered.

    Perhaps this is their way of donating to the government in these difficult financial times.


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    #43
    Zatoichi
    Registered Users Posts: 535 ✭✭✭Zatoichi


    tuxy wrote: »
    Perhaps this is their way of donating to the government in these difficult financial times.


    I guess essential workers are the only ones who can afford to pay the fines at this point.


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    #44
    jmreire
    Registered Users Posts: 8,325 ✭✭✭jmreire


    tuxy wrote: »
    Where are you getting the 10% figure from?
    Any official sources?

    I also drive a Skoda Octavia frequently where the reading shows 100 km/h and GPS shows 98km/h

    Same here, and with Skoda too, The SatNav always shows a lower speed ( 3/4 Klms) than the dash. All cars, in their factory built configuration, are deliberately calibrated to show a few klms over their true speed, as shown on the dash. One reason for this is that if the reading was under showing the true speed, then the manufacturer would be liable for any claims, in the case of accidents etc. Its for the same reason that truck manufacturers deliberately under state the load capacity of the vehicle....If it's plated for say 15 ton, then realistically, it will take maybe 20 ton, before it twists or warps under the load. Again, this is to cover the manufacturers liability.


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    #45
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    jmreire wrote: »
    Same here, and with Skoda too, The SatNav always shows a lower speed ( 3/4 Klms) than the dash. All cars, in their factory built configuration, are deliberately calibrated to show a few klms over their true speed, as shown on the dash. One reason for this is that if the reading was under showing the true speed, then the manufacturer would be liable for any claims, in the case of accidents etc. Its for the same reason that truck manufacturers deliberately under state the load capacity of the vehicle....If it's plated for say 15 ton, then realistically, it will take maybe 20 ton, before it twists or warps under the load. Again, this is to cover the manufacturers liability.

    Exactly and that makes perfect sense but there is no 10%, it's different for every car and like I said changing wheel size will change the reading.


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    #46
    FishOnABike
    Registered Users Posts: 4,386 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    tuxy wrote: »
    Exactly and that makes perfect sense but there is no 10%, it's different for every car and like I said changing wheel size will change the reading.
    If the wheel / tyre size is changed the car's ecu should be reprogrammed to keep the indicated speed accurate, and slightly over the actual speed.

    European law (ECE-R39) says speedometers cannot show speeds less than the actual speed, and they must never show more than the 110 per cent of actual speed plus 4 km/h. So, under those rules, a car could be moving at 100 km/h, but the speedometer could legally display as high as 114 km/h.

    In pracice they're more accurate than that but would still indicate at least 4km/h over the actual speed.


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    #47
    mikeecho
    Registered Users Posts: 5,083 ✭✭✭mikeecho


    Ultimanemo wrote: »
    The speed camera shouldn't be straight after the speed reduction sign, it should be a mile after the sign to give people enough time to reduce their speed.

    With that sort of thinking, they should put traffic lights a mile before the junction as well.


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    #48
    kirving
    Registered Users Posts: 5,911 ✭✭✭kirving


    Seth Brundle wrote: »
    Absolute nonsense.
    If you are unable to drive, then don't! As I mentioned, I cycle (and drive) along there and would prefer if incompetent drivers were not sharing the same roadspace as me!

    I agree. However, can you foresee how placing a speed van right after a sign may contribute to negative reactions from motorist approaching that zone?

    As a cyclist too, and a driver, I would much rather someone let off the throttle gently and coasted into the 80km/h zone still doing 90km/h and let the car reach the limit gradually, rather than hit the brakes on a busy motorway. Smooth predicaticable driving is far safer driving.

    Depending on road surface, wind, gear selection, incline, etc. it's difficult to let the car slow by itself and be at 80 on the button as you pass the sign. Slowing to 80 before the sign will just mean you have tailgaters, and rigidly sticking to the limit is not necessarily good driving.

    Have the Gard sit on an onramp and nail people taking the mick out of the limit 200m up the road. Everyone would be happy to see that.


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    #49
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,976 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    I didn't agree or disagree with the precise location of the van. I just said that it was needed around there.
    Many drivers have a habit of slowing down after the sign though which means that by the time they are mixing with other road users including vulnerable road users, they are still travelling too fast. On top of this you then have the muppets joining te dual carriageway who think that they must be in lane 2 immediately (and despite lane 1 being near empty) causing further risks. Whilst most drivers are fine, there is a persistent danger along there caused by some drivers speeding, some drivers being too imaptient to wait in traffic and cutting into the bus lane and also just a poor standard of driving (poor lane positioning, tailgaiting, etc).


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    #50
    markpb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,255 ✭✭✭markpb


    Kevin Irving wrote: »
    I would much rather someone let off the throttle gently and coasted into the 80km/h zone still doing 90km/h and let the car reach the limit gradually, rather than hit the brakes on a busy motorway. Smooth predicaticable driving is far safer driving.

    Depending on road surface, wind, gear selection, incline, etc. it's difficult to let the car slow by itself and be at 80 on the button as you pass the sign. Slowing to 80 before the sign will just mean you have tailgaters, and rigidly sticking to the limit is not necessarily good driving.

    That is quite bizarre. You seem to think there's nothing between coasting and throwing out an anchor. It's perfectly possible for your average driver to use the accelerator and brakes to control the speed of the car, reducing it in a controlled way from one speed limit to another.

    When you see a speed limit sign, you drive at that speed from the point of the sign. How you accomplish that safely is up to you but it's quite black and white.


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    #51
    jmreire
    Registered Users Posts: 8,325 ✭✭✭jmreire


    tuxy wrote: »
    Exactly and that makes perfect sense but there is no 10%, it's different for every car and like I said changing wheel size will change the reading.

    As I mentioned in my post, IF the vehicle is still configured to manufacturers specification's, then it will not be possible to increase the % unless these specs are changed. Used to be a tactic long ago ( not sure now though) that truckers would routinely swap the wheels on their truck, for a set ( bigger or smaller, I forget which, probably smaller ) for the DOE test. These wheels would then be swapped back for the original wheels after the test. This affected the Tacho reading's. But by now, given the existing technology, I'd say that that stunt has been eliminated, but it was one way that the original configuration was altered.


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    #52
    kirving
    Registered Users Posts: 5,911 ✭✭✭kirving


    markpb wrote: »
    That is quite bizarre. You seem to think there's nothing between coasting and throwing out an anchor. It's perfectly possible for your average driver to use the accelerator and brakes to control the speed of the car, reducing it in a controlled way from one speed limit to another.

    Of course most people can drive like that, as I said in post 20:
    Kevin Irving wrote: »
    No issue with it being an 80km/h zone whatsoever, it's very much needed.

    Most people know the road and ease off gradually in the 120km/h zone, braking gently to get down to 80km/h before the sign. All too often though, they're tailgated by people who are determined to do 120km all the way to the sign.

    Drive the road on a regular basis and the above (tailgating) is very common, unfortunately, by people who, in their mind, are complying with the 120km/h limit before braking hard at the 80km/h sign. They see nothing wrong with it.
    markpb wrote: »
    When you see a speed limit sign, you drive at that speed from the point of the sign. How you accomplish that safely is up to you but it's quite black and white.

    I didn't say it wasn't clear? It's perfectly clear where the zone starts.

    However, can you see that positioning a Gard, or overt camera van right at a speed-limit change zone (where a concertina effect already happens) might induce a negative reaction from some drivers? ie: unexpectedly hitting the brakes just because they see a Gard. Stupid, I know, but that's how people tend to react.

    To be clear, I have zero issue with catching speeders, but right on the edge of the zone, IMO does more harm than good.

    As with the further 60km/h limit before the M50, again very much needed, there is no longer GoSafe enforcement in that area, because it induced worse driving than it was intended to eliminate.


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    #53
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,976 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Kevin Irving wrote: »
    However, can you see that positioning a Gard, or overt camera van right at a speed-limit change zone (where a concertina effect already happens) might induce a negative reaction from some drivers? ie: unexpectedly hitting the brakes just because they see a Gard. Stupid, I know, but that's how people tend to react.

    To be clear, I have zero issue with catching speeders, but right on the edge of the zone, IMO does more harm than good.
    Yes and no!
    People will initially do something stupid and brake (it's almost instinctive) but it may have hte beneficial effect of training drivers to slow down in time for the change in speed limits rather than pass the sign and then start slowing (which is frequently the case in Ireland).

    Plus, you could also look at it from the perspective that if it wasn't really necessary then it wouldn't be there! For those that still work off the presumption that it's all about the money, if it didn't make any money then they wouldn't be there!


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    #54
    blackbox
    Registered Users Posts: 4,156 ✭✭✭blackbox


    Ultimanemo wrote: »
    The speed camera shouldn't be straight after the speed reduction sign, it should be a mile after the sign to give people enough time to reduce their speed.

    God help the rest of us if you have to take a mile plus the distance from which you saw the sign to reduce speed from 120 to 80.


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    #55
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    Seth Brundle wrote: »
    Yes and no!
    People will initially do something stupid and brake (it's almost instinctive) but it may have hte beneficial effect of training drivers to slow down in time for the change in speed limits rather than pass the sign and then start slowing (which is frequently the case in Ireland).

    Plus, you could also look at it from the perspective that if it wasn't really necessary then it wouldn't be there! For those that still work off the presumption that it's all about the money, if it didn't make any money then they wouldn't be there!

    I think everyone should stop speeding for the rest of the year.
    Then they will lose so much money by running these speed checkpoints!


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    #56
    jmreire
    Registered Users Posts: 8,325 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Now there's an idea for you !!! Put 'em out of business.....AND increase road safety at the same time Win / Win .;):D


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    #57
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    Kevin Irving wrote: »
    Drive the road on a regular basis and the above (tailgating) is very common, unfortunately, by people who, in their mind, are complying with the 120km/h limit before braking hard at the 80km/h sign. They see nothing wrong with it.

    They only brake hard because they are gambling on the people in front of them to speed on down the road.


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    #58
    Wishbone Ash
    Registered Users Posts: 24,960 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    markpb wrote: »
    ......When you see a speed limit sign, you drive at that speed from the point of the sign....
    Why? There is no requirement to drive at the indicated speed limit.


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    #59
    Miscreant
    Registered Users Posts: 2,213 ✭✭✭Miscreant


    Wishbone Ash wrote: »
    Why? There is no requirement to drive at the indicated speed limit.

    Now you are splitting hairs... The requirement is that you drive at that speed or below as the prevailing conditions allow. The indicated speed limit is the maximum for that stretch of carriageway and you must not exceed it (unless you want the penalty points and fine). This was the intention of the post you are replying to but I guess you already knew that anyway. :cool:


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    #60
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    Wishbone Ash wrote: »
    Why? There is no requirement to drive at the indicated speed limit.

    In pretty sure markpb meant upto :p


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