Marriage House Ownership Trouble?!? (Mod note in first post)

shenanagans · 25-08-2019 11:28pm

Red flags everywhere. I'd suggest putting to her that you're thinking of selling to recoup your investment. See how see reacts.

Buy again together....jointly. If she can afford to buy with you and doesn't want to stump up the money (deposit) ...it's time you asked some hard questions.

The fact she wants half the income on your house, which you bought and paid bills on. You took all the risks of buying alone. You are entitled to the rewards. Her asking for half.....huge red flag. What is she thinking.

She shouldn't be focused on money. Whether the house is in your name or both what does it matter if ye are getting married. The income covers the mortgage....so why demand it from you? She should be happy that you have a house and an rental income to help pay for it's upkeep. It's very worrying that she's thinking this way. Be careful!

Darc19 · 25-08-2019 11:54pm

BarryD2 wrote: »

All I can observe is that there's a fierce amount of cynicism about people and marriage in many of these replies. The tone of the OP is even and balanced - why assume the worst?

Years of experience

Seen similar too many times in friends.

Never ends well.

Donald Trump · 26-08-2019 2:42am

OP, what I'd do for now is get her to sign a tenant agreement for your current living situation.

pwurple · 26-08-2019 7:15am

I have to question how this is being framed... And if you have discussed how your finances will work after marriage. People all do it differently... When we got married we both had our own houses, so kept a lot of that separate. Eventually children and childcare got so complicated we pooled everything.

Wanting half the rental income is a weird thing to say. Like others have said, it's taxable. She is just setting herself up for a tax bill. On the house, she would be making herself liable for the debt too and would reduce her ability to borrow. Also, for what exactly does she want this income? Has she her own income, does she work?

Asking if you will have joint accounts is different, more along the lines of opening a conversation about future financial admin, and I am wondering if that is what she actually asked for, and you are reframing that request.

tashiusclay · 26-08-2019 7:31am

Bigus wrote: »

However it’s “only €130,000” , which over a lifetime is not a lot ,and been mercenary about it , how much would you invest in finding a life partner? and perhaps the fact you had a house was part of the subliminal attraction in the first place .
Personally I don’t see a problem with this if your punching above your weight in the attractiveness department, and it’s up to you if it’s worth the risk. Its only money, no point in having millions when you’re 80 but on your own, lonely.

This is terrible advice and wrong on so many levels, do not listen to a word of this.

Addle · 26-08-2019 7:51am

Maybe she deserves to be compensated for having to move out of her home for a few months every year?
When you move out, do you still live together or do you each go to your own parents?
How will this work in the future?

26-08-2019 8:37am

Your financial plan was to invest prudently and work hard hers is to take half your stuff, and leave you after a few years.

Tell her the wedding is off, you don't believe in all that nonsense and see if she still "loves" you. You do realise you have as much right to your desires as she does?

<snip - that had nothing to do with the thread, and is not based on anything the OP said>

Be warned if you live together for 5 years she has the same rights as if she is married.

<snip again>

Faith · 26-08-2019 9:39am

Mod note: this will be my one and only warning on this thread. Keep your advice constructive. I have deleted several posts where the poster appeared to completely fabricate a representation of the woman in question and then went on a nonsensical (and, honestly, concerning) rant, based on nothing but their own imagination.

I will not tolerate any personal attacks against the OP’s partner. If you must comment on her, be polite and imagine that she herself was reading it.

Idioteque · 26-08-2019 10:31am

I think the fact that you have paid all the bills and mortgage for 3 years have started you down a certain path if you've never openly had a conversation about the reasons for doing that.

Is there a severe difference in your earning vs hers or if not, why were you paying for a lot of things? - I think this has a huge bearing on where you are at now.

Do you have kids with your fiance? If not (and if you both are hoping to have some in the future), I can tell you that once kids come into it, money can become a big strain on things for some families so you should probably have an honest conversation about both your reasons for what you are expecting financially.

Is your finance talking about using money to improve things for both of you, plan for the future etc. or is it just a 'I should get half' into her own personal bank-account just because you're getting married?

Finally, I don't think there's any right answer here OP, every couple handles money differently, the key thing is finding a scenario you are both happy with and feel is fair...otherwise you'll just kick the proverbial can down the road.

mossyob · 26-08-2019 12:21pm

Thanks to everyone for there advice and help, its interesting that there is so much divide in the subject. To clear up some questions, yes she pays for €50 shopping each week and I take care of the everything else. I was lucky to buy at bottom of market and had €60k as deposit so hence small mortgage. When I bought first I stripped the house and gardens and it took €70/€80k to renovate and put back together, because it my first buy I totally misjudged the costs of doing this and had to max credit cards, use savings and get credit union loan. This is how I got into renting the house as I ran out of money to finish and I got paid in advance of my first summer rentals. The tarmac went in two days before first rental in 2017,thats how tight it was and because it was a nice finish and great location its €1500 a week for 6/8 weeks of the summer. Tax is paid on this but there are alot of expenses that goes towards it so its not bad. I converted the loft this year in the garage at a cost of €12k which paid for itself with this summers rentals, its finished well and comfortable and we dont have to move in with parents anymore and should add value to property. Shes a great person and partner thats why I want to get married, some have said dont get married but theres nothing wrong with been cautious, protection on both sides is needed thats all, Im thinking of the worst case scenario especially when Im not in a great financial position after finishing the house. We will get joint loan for wedding and I have said we should use next years rentals to buy a investment property in both our names.

CelticRambler · 26-08-2019 12:42pm

mossyob wrote: »

I totally misjudged the costs of doing this and had to max credit cards, use savings and get credit union loan.

Im thinking of the worst case scenario especially when Im not in a great financial position after finishing the house. We will get joint loan for wedding

WTF?

Following this thread from the beginning, I was reluctant to jump on the bandwagon of people hoisting red flags about your fiancé. Now it looks like she's the one who should be on here asking for advice, because it sounds like you don't know how to manage your money, and she'd be right to be worried that you'll leave her high and dry.

If you're "not in a great financial position" why on earth would you go borrowing money for a party?

mossyob · 26-08-2019 1:41pm

Apologies when I said poor financial position I meant little savings as all renovation loans/cards just cleared, we have started joint account for wedding savings so looking at a small loan which we will pay off straight away

Anna2834 · 26-08-2019 1:52pm

OP - I get what you are saying about being cautions, however they say "for better or worse". I'm myself getting married soon and he has a property he owns but has a very small mortgage on it, where I bought a house but have my mum on the mortgage, the deeds are solely in my name (not sure that makes much of a difference really). The parents live in the house + me but I live between the two houses in fairness.

So what my fiancee decided to do is sell his house, which he will make about €150.000 of a profit, bought it at a very very low price. He wants to sell it and buy a property with me (we can't flip my own property for another 4/5 years until my parents retire back to where I am from).

When that happens we will probably either rent it out or sell it (we see it as a small pot that might help us later or might not) we shall decide when we get to that stage.

If my fiancee would have asked, well I am putting €150.000 into the new house, what are you bringing to the table?.... well I would probably say I am putting my neck on the line again for another loan...he hasn't said that just YET. But then again he is very cautious with his money, even if I earn considerably more than him.

You are just being cautious and there's nothing wrong with that, however it seems that there is another side to this story. Talk to her...you two are the only ones who know what is going on. But please seeing she is the one have a conversation with her. It's so hard nowadays to find someone decent, so if you have found that special person don't let them go. And remember there will be so many stories out there about people who's relationships haven't worked out and are having financial issues - God I know a few myself, but they are not you and you are not them.

Congratulations on your wedding, have a fantastic day.

KyussB · 26-08-2019 2:03pm

Potential for serious life-altering harm here, OP. It doesn't matter how great your partner is now, if you don't talk it all through and get the balance of things officially written down on paper with a solicitor, then your previously great and closest partner, can end up fucking you over more than your worst enemy ever could.

It happens all the time, and money plus disagreements over entitlements, can do viciously odd things to people and relationships - don't expect your partner to be remotely rational, get it all agreed and written down with a solicitor.

Don't use a loan to pay for a wedding, either - that is fucking reckless as hell - the world economy is on the cusp of recession and Brexit is coming, better hope your job isn't affected...

Don't ever go into debt when you don't have to. Houses are for living in, treating them as investments is what led to ruin a decade ago - your managing your finances and investment decisions recklessly.

Anna2834 · 26-08-2019 2:09pm

I agree with KyussB on this....have a small wedding, no need for a lot of drama...

"Don't use a loan to pay for a wedding, either - that is ****ing reckless as hell - the world economy is on the cusp of recession and Brexit is coming, better hope your job isn't affected.."

City Hall have some fantastic offers...and you definitely don't need a loan for that.

SusanC10 · 26-08-2019 2:12pm

Pre-nups are not enforceable in Ireland so little point in going to that expense. That being said no harm in getting legal advice before you get married.

love_love · 26-08-2019 2:21pm

Not much to add that hasn't already been said. Marriage is a legal contract. Taking the romance out of it, are you in a position to enter into this legal contract with your partner?

pc7 · 26-08-2019 3:21pm

Can I ask why she only pays €50 a week for shopping and you pay everything else? Does she work? What does she do with her money? Surely she has savings if her only outgoing is €50 a week!

Keco · 26-08-2019 5:38pm

Everything’s half hers once you get married anyway doesn’t matter what the deeds say.

cannotlogin · 26-08-2019 10:38pm

When you look at something with rose tinted glasses, all of the big red flags staring you in the face just look like bunting!

You are not in a great financial situation, yet she only pays €50 a week to cover bills. How does she not have enough savings to cover the cost of the wedding?

It looks like her money is her own and your money is joint funds. Are you happy to have spend a life time funding this cost centre?

I know every couple has their own view on finances but this is one of the most extremely cases of inequity I've heard, especially before kids or marriage. I would just be concerned that your being taken for a ride, how does she justify her lack of financial contribution or more importantly when she think she should have half the rent money knowing you are strained financially?

27-08-2019 12:37am

If she is only contributing 50 per week where is the rest of her money going? Does she work?

JustMe,K · 27-08-2019 1:17pm

Can I move in with you? €50 a week on shopping and no other expenses is a sweet deal!

Joking aside, if you are looking to buy an investment property together then that would indicate your gf is working or at least has access to money. I cant understand how with such low expenses you would need to take out a loan for the wedding, as your gf should be able to pay a lot towards it (unless she has lots of debt built up that she might be paying down).
Is it the case that your gf is unwilling to contribute more because she feels she has no rights to the property if she does, and thats why she is asking to go on the deeds?

Dial Hard · 28-08-2019 3:29pm

Keco wrote: »

Everything’s half hers once you get married anyway doesn’t matter what the deeds say.

Jesus christ, can we please put this myth to bed once and for all - there is no automatic entitlement to 50% of anything - for either party - under Irish divorce law. Literally no such entitlement exists. I have no idea why this idea is so widespread and persistent.

Marriage House Ownership Trouble?!? (Mod note in first post)

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