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Eligibility to be Central Bank governor.

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  • 11-03-2020 3:00pm
    #1
    political analyst
    Registered Users Posts: 4,457 ✭✭✭


    Gabriel Makhlouf is the first non-Irish national to be governor of the Central Bank of Ireland.

    Given that he's responsible for the Irish economy (i.e. the national interest), that there is a constitutional obligation that only an Irish citizen can be Garda Commissioner (The Good Friday Agreement means that Drew Harris fulfils that requirement) and that Mark Carney was given British citizenship before he took charge of the UK's central bank, the Bank of England, why is there no legal obligation to ensure that the governor of our central bank is an Irish citizen?


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    #2
    Elemonator
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,271 ✭✭✭Elemonator


    political analyst wrote: »
    that there is a constitutional obligation that only an Irish citizen can be Garda Commissioner

    First I have heard of that.


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    #3
    Salary Negotiator
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,148 ✭✭✭Salary Negotiator


    Pretty sure Mark Carney took British citizenship after qualifying through residency, not as a pre-condition of taking the Governorship position.


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    #4
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,178 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Salary Negotiator wrote: »
    Pretty sure Mark Carney took British citizenship after qualifying through residency, not as a pre-condition of taking the Governorship position.

    and 6 years after he became governor.


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    #5
    Salary Negotiator
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,148 ✭✭✭Salary Negotiator


    Elemonator wrote: »
    First I have heard of that.

    I just had a look at the report on appointing the commissioner and 5 of the 13 candidates shortlisted were not Irish.

    I also couldn't find any mention that being an Irish national (or becoming one) was a requirement.


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    #6
    Riskymove
    Registered Users Posts: 10,885 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    Salary Negotiator wrote: »
    I just had a look at the report on appointing the commissioner and 5 of the 13 candidates shortlisted were not Irish.

    I also couldn't find any mention that being an Irish national (or becoming one) was a requirement.

    An active outreach programme was also managed by PAS with the advert and details of the role circulated to the Chairpersons or Chief Executives of the International Association of Chiefs of Police; the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police; the National Police Chiefs Council UK for wider circulation amongst members.

    The role was also circulated to the Police Association of South Australia; WA Police Union (Australia); the Police Association Victoria; Police Association of New South Wales; the Police Association of Tasmania; the Northern Territory Police Association; the Australian Federal Police Association; the IPA Australia Police and the United Nations and Overseas Policing of Australia.


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    #7
    political analyst
    Registered Users Posts: 4,457 ✭✭✭political analyst


    Salary Negotiator wrote: »
    I just had a look at the report on appointing the commissioner and 5 of the 13 candidates shortlisted were not Irish.

    I also couldn't find any mention that being an Irish national (or becoming one) was a requirement.

    The commissioner is in charge of national security and so it would be unconstitutional to appoint a non-Irish national to the position.

    Any officer with relatively recent Irish roots would be entitled to Irish citizenship.


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    #8
    Riskymove
    Registered Users Posts: 10,885 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    Eligibility to compete and certain restrictions on eligibility
    Applications are welcome from all irrespective of country of residence, including those outside the European Economic Area (EEA) or Switzerland. Candidates in this category should be aware that if successful at interview, appointment to the post is contingent on securing a work permit. The EEA consists of the Member States of the European Union along with Iceland, Liechtenstein and Norway.


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    #9
    Riskymove
    Registered Users Posts: 10,885 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    political analyst wrote: »
    The commissioner is in charge of national security and so it would be unconstitutional to appoint a non-Irish national to the position.

    no he means that there is no Irish citizen requirement to be the Garda Commissioner


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    #10
    Dodge
    Registered Users Posts: 10,170 ✭✭✭✭Dodge


    political analyst wrote: »
    The commissioner is in charge of national security and so it would be unconstitutional to appoint a non-Irish national to the position.

    You don’t know what unconstitutional means


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    #11
    political analyst
    Registered Users Posts: 4,457 ✭✭✭political analyst


    Riskymove wrote: »
    no he means that there is no Irish citizen requirement to be the Garda Commissioner

    Nevertheless, the only way in which a non-Irish national could become commissioner is if responsibility for national security was moved to a new Irish intelligence organisation.


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    #12
    political analyst
    Registered Users Posts: 4,457 ✭✭✭political analyst


    Dodge wrote: »
    You don’t know what unconstitutional means

    Michael McDowell said that the person in charge of Ireland's national security must be an Irish citizen.


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    #13
    Salary Negotiator
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,148 ✭✭✭Salary Negotiator


    political analyst wrote: »
    The commissioner is in charge of national security and so it would be unconstitutional to appoint a non-Irish national to the position.

    Any officer with relatively recent Irish roots would be entitled to Irish citizenship.

    Is this your opinion or fact?

    The net was cast fairly wide to find the current commissioner and afaik it was just coincidence that he happened to be from the island or Ireland.

    Any officer who had the necessary skills regardless of nationality could have been appointed to the position.

    Have you made this requirement up or can you back up your claim with a link to the job description page?


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    #14
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 28,060 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    I think we should be asking them their gold handicap. If it's low, take them off the shortlist.

    Nationality was not an indicator of performance here was it?
    Patrick Neary was Financial Regulator at the time of Ireland's financial crash. At a public appearance before the country's Banking Inquiry in 2015, he admitted it was a mistake to print golf balls featuring the Regulator's logo.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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    #15
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,178 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    political analyst wrote: »
    Michael McDowell said that the person in charge of Ireland's national security must be an Irish citizen.

    Michael McDowell is not the arbiter of what is or isnt constitutional. Can you point us towards the section of the constitution that refers to the head of irisn national security?


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    #16
    political analyst
    Registered Users Posts: 4,457 ✭✭✭political analyst


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    Michael McDowell is not the arbiter of what is or isnt constitutional. Can you point us towards the section of the constitution that refers to the head of irisn national security?

    He's a Senior Council and former Attorney General. Are you accusing him of making it up? It's about interpretation of, not just what you read in, the Constitution.


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    #17
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,178 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    political analyst wrote: »
    He's a Senior Council and former Attorney General. Are you accusing him of making it up? It's about interpretation of, not just what you read in, the Constitution.

    I didnt say he made it up but he is not the arbiter and may be wrong. So what article of the constitution should we be reading?


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    #18
    Salary Negotiator
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,148 ✭✭✭Salary Negotiator


    political analyst wrote: »
    He's a Senior Council and former Attorney General. Are you accusing him of making it up? It's about interpretation of, not just what you read in, the Constitution.

    What did he actually say because I've looked for a source and the closest I could find was him saying that the Gardai and National Intelligence as a whole should be kept under control of the government and not an outside policing authority.


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    #19
    Rufeo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 503 ✭✭✭Rufeo


    You have to know about "de money"


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    #20
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Makhlouf is a UK citizen and is entitled to work anywhere in the EU. Same for Drew Harris. That might change due to Brexit but hey-ho.

    Under the EU Four Freedoms laws, Makhlouf is entitled to work anywhere in the EU. It would be in breach of EU law to forbid him from working here.

    And even if there was a constitutional bar on him getting certain jobs, EU law has supremacy over Irish law so he can't be prohibited from applying for jobs here.


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    #21
    Ipso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    political analyst wrote: »
    Gabriel Makhlouf is the first non-Irish national to be governor of the Central Bank of Ireland.

    Given that he's responsible for the Irish economy (i.e. the national interest), that there is a constitutional obligation that only an Irish citizen can be Garda Commissioner (The Good Friday Agreement means that Drew Harris fulfils that requirement) and that Mark Carney was given British citizenship before he took charge of the UK's central bank, the Bank of England, why is there no legal obligation to ensure that the governor of our central bank is an Irish citizen?

    A legal obligation that politicians can't be Irish citizens could be a good idea.


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    #22
    tdf7187
    Registered Users Posts: 1,597 ✭✭✭tdf7187


    The OP seems to ignore or forget that certain previous Irish heads of the Central Bank arguably haven't acted in the national interest, given ECB membership. My understanding is that the low interest rates set by the ECB in the early 2000s were completely unaligned with the already overheated Irish economy and fed into the crash, and that previous heads of the Irish Central Bank did not vote against such interest rate decreases. Not the only factor, granted in the bubble and the crash, granted, but in my view, definitely a factor.

    Might as well give the gig to a Kiwi, tbh.


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    #23
    tdf7187
    Registered Users Posts: 1,597 ✭✭✭tdf7187


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    I think we should be asking them their gold handicap. If it's low, take them off the shortlist.

    Nationality was not an indicator of performance here was it?
    Patrick Neary was Financial Regulator at the time of Ireland's financial crash. At a public appearance before the country's Banking Inquiry in 2015, he admitted it was a mistake to print golf balls featuring the Regulator's logo.

    Not to be a pedant, but Mr Neary was never the head of the Central Bank. That role during the crash was held by John Hurley.

    Those with a long memory will recall that a former director of the Central Bank was an Ansbacher account holder (note - I am not implying that any other past or current members of the board of the Central Bank knew of this).

    https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/banking-inquiry/former-central-bank-boss-has-175k-annual-pension-31246332.html

    https://inquiries.oireachtas.ie/banking/hearings-evidence/?l=H

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/serving-bank-director-got-ansbacher-offshore-loans-1.253236


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    #24
    The Tetrarch
    Registered Users Posts: 2,092 ✭✭✭The Tetrarch


    tdf
    10/10 for hindsight.


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    #25
    tdf7187
    Registered Users Posts: 1,597 ✭✭✭tdf7187


    tdf7187 wrote: »
    The OP seems to ignore or forget that certain previous Irish heads of the Central Bank arguably haven't acted in the national interest, given ECB membership. My understanding is that the low interest rates set by the ECB in the early 2000s were completely unaligned with the already overheated Irish economy and fed into the crash, and that previous heads of the Irish Central Bank did not vote against such interest rate decreases. Not the only factor, granted in the bubble and the crash, granted, but in my view, definitely a factor.

    Might as well give the gig to a Kiwi, tbh.

    Just on this point - and I'm not a Gaeler, but Eoghan Murphy on the ball here:

    https://youtu.be/6knSHkf0m4w?t=172


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