Bullying in the workplace

skooterblue2 · 27-11-2018 9:44pm

wakka12 wrote: »

Why would people who work in academia be more likely to bully than in other workplaces?

I know because I have an inside on it. I have aspergers syndrome, this is one part of it. So I am open to correction on other parts of it.

*Some* (not all, autism is more of an art than a science) autistic lecturers especially in the hard sciences, were bullied along the way. Now nobody is going to step on them again. Again *Some* lecturers with HFA (Higher Functioning Autism), also have a lack of empathy, they dont get why ordinary people (NeuroTypicals) cannot pick up higher concepts like physics, programming, accountancy etc etc etc.... So they perceive them as stupid. Now you would imagine they would help identify their fellow autists and help them up but they dont because they are ashamed at who they are. This often leads to addiction traits/patterns (collecting/drinking/gambling/sexual complexs (cross dressing/compulsive masturbation/prostitution..etc etc).

Once again, *Some* not all. I have the most fantastic Biology teacher, driven to help her autists students up and prepare for exams, I see her female asperger traits, and she is open about them. I feel as privileged as if I had Professor Temple Grandin lecturing me.

skooterblue2 · 27-11-2018 9:52pm

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

Surely bullying is equally rife in places where the managers have serious power. Say somewhere where you have minimum wage employees with no union etc. Call centres. Warehouses. Retail

This is a different type of bully, He/She has a lower IQ and got to this position by stomping down on other people, kissing ass and snitching. Management like him/her because they get metric and dont bother them with the detail. My cousin is one of these dopes. Thy mimic other managers to get up the ladder and are usually good at manipulating and negotiating.

These sad sacks usually meet a sticky end when they become scapegoats for something else that managers use them as useful idiots when there is a scandal.

The only way they can rise up is by stomping down on other poor souls. Hotel, retail, call centers, catering, short term manufacturing contracts and others are rife with these bottom feeders

Wanderer2010 · 27-11-2018 10:01pm

I often wonder why more families don't get involved in confronting these bullies. I know there is a lot of shame involved and the victim often wouldn't want their family anywhere near their workplace but if I had a son or daughter who was in tears every day because some piece of dog sh!t was treating them badly, I would not be able to stop myself having a man to man chat with said individual.

AllForIt · 27-11-2018 10:39pm

Coming up on Prime Time this evening they are doing a piece on stress in the workplace which reports show has increased over the last few years. A promo for the piece has a guy say "it's dog eat dog in the workplace and some ppl will do anything to get to the top". I wonder how much bullying is part of all of this, it must be a part of it.

skooterblue2 · 27-11-2018 10:50pm

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

I often wonder why more families don't get involved in confronting these bullies. I know there is a lot of shame involved and the victim often wouldn't want their family anywhere near their workplace but if I had a son or daughter who was in tears every day because some piece of dog sh!t was treating them badly, I would not be able to stop myself having a man to man chat with said individual.

Are you having me on? My two cousins are lynch pins in the beef industry. These lads are local heroes and idolised as heros (until one of them got helping the horse into the burger machine). If you are in the beef business at senior management level, these clown brothers are legends. "Ahhh poor John (not real name) was hard done by." The SH^&E people tell themselves about these goons is unreal in families.

AllForIt · 27-11-2018 10:54pm

JupiterKid wrote: »

The interesting thing in the case of my being bullied back in 2008/9 was how subtle and insidious it was at first from my then new boss - little "constructive" criticisms of my research reports, asking me to go back over and recheck the data, etc. It eventually led to a full on bollocking in his office every morning.

I was physically sick with dread going into work most mornings not knowing what humiliation I would be subjected to that day. I didn't tell my research assistant and colleagues what was going on. I didn't want them to get involved or take sides.

The thing was - the bully was actually a sad little man and I suspect professional jealously was at play - as I subsequently found out that I had more peer reviewed publications than he did even though he was a decade older than me. I had a huge breakdown and seriously contemplated suicide. I turned to very heavy drinking.

I think the vast majority of bullying is subtle. I was bullied when I came back from the UK to rural Ireland and got a low skilled job in a local pharmaceutical factory. I ended up leaving it after a few months. I wasn't in the best state of mind when I came back to rural Ireland but that's another story. The point is when I look back at it now I though I was going crazy precisely because it was subtle - I though it was all in my in mind. The reality is it was subtle and I left the job because I couldn't at that time cope with it.

I believe that most bullying is subtle because if it's done that way it's harder to prove. It could be argued that the victim is just mis-interpreting innocent remarks.

However, I am getting my career and life back. I would never dream of abusing my position over another person. It IS possible to be decent and successful.

Good for you and yes there's no excuses for being a total *unt.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 27-11-2018 11:09pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

I actually feel sorry for the bullies in some way. Imagine being such an utterly pathetic tosser that you bully another grown adult in the workplace. their lives must be genuinely sh1t.

I sympathize with bullies as I sympathize with cancer. Poor poor cancer, so misunderstood.

Mad_maxx · 27-11-2018 11:48pm

skooterblue2 wrote: »

If you look behind that fascade you will find a very fragile person with usually with addiction problems in the background (gambling, sex, drugs or alcohol). Its just a release to humiliate someone on the workroom floor.

Nonesense, bullies are often strong individuals, they are just bad and enjoy what they do.

Some people are born bad.

Trekker09 · 27-11-2018 11:49pm

I started to get bullied just after my son was born. It was instigated by two guys who had, up to then, been ok towards me and I got on OK with. One was adopted and the other lads father had left when he was young. It was subtle at first, written messages left where I'd see them, laughing as I walked past. Small, stupid things that became more obvious after a while. The effect it had on me was devastating. I lost all confidence, couldn't sleep etc and really dreaded getting up in the morning to go to work. I felt small and worthless and my self confidence was non existent.

This went on for 6 years and kept it all to myself for the 1st 4 years, finally breaking down and sharing it with my wife. In the meantime I had spoken to management about the situation, ,but they brushed it off by bringing the three of us into the office and making us shake hands. I went back in afterwards to complain but it fell on deaf ears, as management obviously thought I had done something to deserve it and basically told me to man up!! My wife was amazing and furious in equal measures. she built me back up emotionally and we decided that I would go back to college part time to see if I could get a better job. I managed to get a software development job after my 1st year exams and have been contracting since 2012, mainly working on overseas projects.

I still see the 2 bullies, one of them actually apologized to me but I just told him to get away before I decked him. The other one I approached and thanked him for being an arsehole as it had inspired me to better myself! They also had a hard time after I left as some of my colleagues who had seen what was going on came down hard on them after I left. Unknown to me they had also been doing this while I had been bullied. It was an awful, awful time, gut wrenchingly terrible, but for anyone else going through the same thing, share it with someone and get help, the sooner the better.

Mad_maxx · 27-11-2018 11:49pm

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

Bullying really is an odious character trait and the worst thing about bullies is that they will never ever ever ever change. If someone is at heart a decent person but sometimes act like a pr!ck, there is some scope there for improvement when someone points out their flaws but a bully will just look genuinely dumbfounded and surprised if you tell them they are a bully as if you said the weirdest thing in the world, and then continue to torment others. I don't believe either in empathy when it comes to these creatures- tell them straight out to fcuk off and don't take any sh!t and they tend to back down.

No great mystery, they are just bad.

Mad_maxx · 27-11-2018 11:51pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

The two best bosses I've had in 30+ years working have been women. I've seen one woman bully too, and she was awful - but no, women bosses are definitely not the worst.

I meant they are worse because management won't do anything for fear of being branded sexist.

Female bullies have immunity.

mvl · 28-11-2018 1:27pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

The two best bosses I've had in 30+ years working have been women. I've seen one woman bully too, and she was awful - but no, women bosses are definitely not the worst.

Do you think domain matters ?
- I work in a technical domain where the ratio is ~20% female/80% male.
My best managers have been women too, as in both multinational companies I've worked for I met outstanding professional ladies that were invested in coaching/mentoring. They are older generation (~20/30 years in their roles), quite often I've seen how they had to work extremely hard to get where they are. Note that neither of these female managers were liked by the general staff.

On another hand - not sure if this is same in other places (such as public sector) where 80% of staff is female, and the competition between generations is quite tense ...

dr.fuzzenstein · 28-11-2018 2:51pm

I've had to deal with bullies in a lot of jobs, they are both male and female bullies.
The worst are the sneaky, insidious ones. Checking on your every second at work, checking every tiny thing you do and say, checking on your times and even falsifying those times.
Every tiny mistake would result in a bollocking or a report, no matter how well you did something, the one tiny thing wrong was found and yet another complaint.
They are the ones that make you feel stupid and inadequate. They make you doubt your sanity.
They know exactly how to do everything by the book, but persecute you to such an extent, that you just want to turn on your heels and walk out of there and never come back.
I'll take an insane, shouting boss over these slimy, weedling, sneaky, miserable cnuts any day.

Noveight · 28-11-2018 3:10pm

steddyeddy wrote: »

Is there any other type of work environment where bullying is present?

Depending on the school, staff rooms full of teachers can be lethal.

I had a minor difference of opinions with a fellow member of staff there a few weeks back, really small thing, thought nothing of it.

Since then she won’t acknowledge me in the halls if we happen to cross paths when there’s nobody else about. However, if there’s someone else there she’ll say hello.

Her actions don’t bother me in the slightest but the petty, juvenile nature of it does. As far as I’m concerned she can join the long, winding queue of people who reckon they’ve an axe to grind.

....... · 28-11-2018 3:41pm

My current boss is a bully. He doesnt get away with bullying me, but he does try.

A few years ago a new guy started in a higer up managerial position. He came directly to my desk and bullied me, twice. There was a smell of drink off him. On the second occasion he didnt realise, but someone was in a small office off the office I was in (alone - he only ever bullied me alone). The nature of the bullying was aggressive shouting at me and making unreasonable demands. All delivered in a very hostile and intimidating manner. After the second time, the person who overheard came to me and told me she had my back and if I reported it she would tell what happened too. It turned out that similar had happened to several other people, and there were a number of complaints in (I didnt find that out til later). Anyway, I was off for a few days, and when I came back I made the complaint.

I was bulletproof from the minute I complained. He couldnt say ANYTHING to me for fear he would be in worse trouble. I was still uncomfortable around him but he was civil towards me. Apparently after I complained he was given a talking to and then left the office and came back in smelling of drink. There was a lot of suspicion around him and his behaviour from the higher ups at this stage. Shortly afterwards he came in completely sozzled and was fired on the spot by the CEO.

mariaalice · 28-11-2018 3:48pm

I only ever had one very minor encounter with this and it was very hard to make out what it was exactly about, a mixture of a personality clash, and the person not being good at their job themselves and not realising it, they were being suitable bullied themselves, a bit of jealousy, luckily im kind of impervious to thing like that more puzzled by them than anything else. They got bounced around to various jobs then left and a load of stories began to emerge.

I would hazard a guess that they have very low self-esteem combined with at times thinking themselves marvelous as well.

I don't think it can be categorised into one thing, someone was telling me recently about being bullied because of their qualification the person doing the bullying has none, to me looking in from the outside I would think the bully was terrified of losing their job and had turned in to resentment against a younger better-qualified someone.

There is a different reason for each case, except where the person is just bad.

28-11-2018 3:49pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

I meant they are worse because management won't do anything for fear of being branded sexist.

Female bullies have immunity.

Oh I don't think this is true at all. If you have your witnesses, your incidents written down in detail, your dates, times, cctv etc recorded accurately and have people in your staff aware/keeping an eye out, it really won't matter what gender somebody is. And rightly so. The consequences on any person's mental health of being a victim of bullying can be the most serious in working life. In most cases, it has many other victims - a spouse, children, etc. The gender of the perpetrator is incidental, and not just because there are people of both genders victimised. A toxic person is a toxic person.

Faced with an array of evidence, any employer will have a choice to listen, or to see you in court where a judge will listen and the details of that company's attitude to bullying will be publicised. And managers publicly named. Needless to say, most companies will take action and settle out of court (if it gets that far) if the employee has got all their ducks in a row and is determined to expose the company and its management (and ultimately, while it's usually middle management doing the bullying, the people at the top are nearly always complicit in it).
Record everything, keep an eye on where the cctv is (often there is cctv on a working premises in an area people don't know so don't assume there's no cctv in an area) and let people know what's happening. Word travels fairly quickly in our tiny society.

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w/s/p/c/ · 28-11-2018 3:52pm

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

The worst are the sneaky, insidious ones. Checking on your every second at work, checking every tiny thing you do and say, checking on your times and even falsifying those times.
Every tiny mistake would result in a bollocking or a report, no matter how well you did something, the one tiny thing wrong was found and yet another complaint.
They are the ones that make you feel stupid and inadequate. They make you doubt your sanity.

I had a former boss like this. He was my direct manager and I had a team reporting to me. Didn't want to move onto his team when asked but had no other choice as he had a really bad reputation. People that reported into him previously had asked to be moved away from him and upper management knew of his methods and let him away with it.

I swore not to let him get to me or break me down and I thought I had the personality to do so. But he broke me down and got to me. Sitting on my shoulder each day not letting me operate and run my team (I had been a team leader in the company and other companies for the previous 5 years so not like I didn't know what I was doing). He would micro manage everything and offer no assistance, would swan off early each evening while we were left to carry the load (other managers at his level were hands on with their direct reports). Even the way he spoke to his wife on the phone whenever she called, he just was a nasty piece of work (I witnessed this in person about a year after I left, I was going into a concert in Croker and seen them in the queue ahead, her bag was being searched and she had a bottle of deodorant (it was summertime) in the bag and security were taking it away from her, he was degrading her in the middle of the queue asking why would she be so stupid to have that in her bag). This fella has 2 young kids too, I can imagine what he says to them.

An opportunity at another company in a different position came up which I took and to this day am glad I did. On my way out of the company he tried to be all pally pally with me, but I was having none of it, I was going to give him a piece of my mind but thought the cold shoulder was the better option as I didn't want to lower myself to his level. I spoke my mind about him to his direct managers and to HR in my exit interviews. They both said they knew of his reputation and had complaints against him before! I said how do you let him get away with it and do nothing, which they couldn't answer.

I heard that about 6 months after I left they made him redundant, so he probably got a nice pay off. I hear he is still working in the industry, no doubt still carrying on the way he did, hopefully he won't get away with it for as long as he did.

mariaalice · 28-11-2018 4:04pm

only vaguely related to this but it makes you wonder regarding nasty individuals.

I was a supermarket and I was vaguely aware of aware of a middle-aged middle-class man with a girl of about 12 with him, she was asking him something and from nowhere he grabbed her by her upper arm and pulled her right up to his face and was very aggressive then he suddenly realised where he was and dropped her. It was nasty and aggressive even though it only lasted a few seconds. I felt sorry for the child.

A very nasty aggressive bully who would be a nightmare to work for.

Wanderer2010 · 28-11-2018 5:10pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Nonesense, bullies are often strong individuals, they are just bad and enjoy what they do.

Some people are born bad.

They may be born bad but being a bully makes you a coward because if you wouldn't bully someone your own level or size or someone who could take you on, it makes you a coward plain and simple.

....... · 28-11-2018 5:24pm

I remember a strange individual in an old workplace and I still do not really understand what was going on.

This guy was in a dept with about 8 of us. He was extremely difficult. I would write pages on the details but he was bad at the job itself, so you often ended up re-doing his work, he was defensive, suspicious, aggressive and would create stupid problems so was impossible to work with.

One example for clarity. The boss would ask him to do task A and me to do task B. I had to wait for A to be finished before I could start B. Yer man would go back to his desk and start working on A. Some time later, an hour, a day, a week, I would ask him was he finished A. He would ignore me. I would move closer to his desk and ask again. He would ignore me. I would raise my voice slightly and ask could he hear me. He would accuse me of shouting at him. I would apologise, ask was he finished, he would turn away and mutter something. Eventually I resorted to emails to him where I copied the boss when I had to ask him anything. He just wouldnt reply.

He would do the most bizarre things in the office, not limited to but including, suddenly jumping up from his desk, running across the room, rooting out a small tightly folded piece of paper, furiously unfold it, scribble something on it, fold it up again, bury it deep into his coat and go back to his desk. On occasion he would jump up so suddenly to do this that he would knock over his chair or things on his desk. He brought in a voice activated dictaphone and tried to record us when he was out of the room. He kept lists of what people were doing daily, discovered accidently one time after he jumped up furiously and knocked things over. The list had a person name at the top and underneath a litany of dated perceived offences: John, 25-Apr-2000, 10am, chewed nuts noisily at his desk, 27-Apr-2000, 11am, had a 3 minute phone call that was not work related. One time he randomly brought in a chainsaw and just left it sitting on his desk beside him for the day. Another time I found my home address written on a post it note on his computer.

It got so bad that no one would work with him. No one would talk to him. If there was a social event, no one would ask him. I am sure he really did feel bullied, but he genuinely brought it all upon himself. It really sounds like victim blaming to say that though. We tried to resolve things on more than one occasion but he would just revert to same.

I can honestly say, if I started a new job and walked in to find him working there, I would quit immediately.

Wanderer2010 · 28-11-2018 6:08pm

....... wrote: »

I remember a strange individual in an old workplace and I still do not really understand what was going on.

This guy was in a dept with about 8 of us. He was extremely difficult. I would write pages on the details but he was bad at the job itself, so you often ended up re-doing his work, he was defensive, suspicious, aggressive and would create stupid problems so was impossible to work with.

One example for clarity. The boss would ask him to do task A and me to do task B. I had to wait for A to be finished before I could start B. Yer man would go back to his desk and start working on A. Some time later, an hour, a day, a week, I would ask him was he finished A. He would ignore me. I would move closer to his desk and ask again. He would ignore me. I would raise my voice slightly and ask could he hear me. He would accuse me of shouting at him. I would apologise, ask was he finished, he would turn away and mutter something. Eventually I resorted to emails to him where I copied the boss when I had to ask him anything. He just wouldnt reply.

He would do the most bizarre things in the office, not limited to but including, suddenly jumping up from his desk, running across the room, rooting out a small tightly folded piece of paper, furiously unfold it, scribble something on it, fold it up again, bury it deep into his coat and go back to his desk. On occasion he would jump up so suddenly to do this that he would knock over his chair or things on his desk. He brought in a voice activated dictaphone and tried to record us when he was out of the room. He kept lists of what people were doing daily, discovered accidently one time after he jumped up furiously and knocked things over. The list had a person name at the top and underneath a litany of dated perceived offences: John, 25-Apr-2000, 10am, chewed nuts noisily at his desk, 27-Apr-2000, 11am, had a 3 minute phone call that was not work related. One time he randomly brought in a chainsaw and just left it sitting on his desk beside him for the day. Another time I found my home address written on a post it note on his computer.

It got so bad that no one would work with him. No one would talk to him. If there was a social event, no one would ask him. I am sure he really did feel bullied, but he genuinely brought it all upon himself. It really sounds like victim blaming to say that though. We tried to resolve things on more than one occasion but he would just revert to same.

I can honestly say, if I started a new job and walked in to find him working there, I would quit immediately.

Wow, things sound like they really got out of control there, but one thing that is jumping out of your post is the complete and utter absence of any management intervention. This is 100% their problem. Who was his manager? What did he or she do to sort the issues? Surely several people made complaints about this guy? If there was literally nothing done about him, then that's up there with the most pathetic managing skills ever!

....... · 28-11-2018 6:29pm

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

Wow, things sound like they really got out of control there, but one thing that is jumping out of your post is the complete and utter absence of any management intervention. This is 100% their problem. Who was his manager? What did he or she do to sort the issues? Surely several people made complaints about this guy? If there was literally nothing done about him, then that's up there with the most pathetic managing skills ever!

No. He was not being managed.

It was like the manager was afraid to manage him. I absolutely insisted at one point that the manager call a team meeting so we could try to clear the air and the others agreed.

When we went into it I presumed the manager would take the lead but instead he looked at me and said "so you said you wanted to say something to weird guy?". SO it looked as though they called the meeting to facilitate me giving out to the guy.

Truly awful.

branie2 · 28-11-2018 6:32pm

Probably psychopaths as well.

skooterblue2 · 28-11-2018 10:18pm

branie2 wrote: »

Probably psychopaths as well.

Interesting comment. Psychopaths are attracted to power jobs like banking medicine and finance. Its not all about killing but controls.

Mad_maxx · 28-11-2018 10:55pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Oh I don't think this is true at all. If you have your witnesses, your incidents written down in detail, your dates, times, cctv etc recorded accurately and have people in your staff aware/keeping an eye out, it really won't matter what gender somebody is. And rightly so. The consequences on any person's mental health of being a victim of bullying can be the most serious in working life. In most cases, it has many other victims - a spouse, children, etc. The gender of the perpetrator is incidental, and not just because there are people of both genders victimised. A toxic person is a toxic person.

Faced with an array of evidence, any employer will have a choice to listen, or to see you in court where a judge will listen and the details of that company's attitude to bullying will be publicised. And managers publicly named. Needless to say, most companies will take action and settle out of court (if it gets that far) if the employee has got all their ducks in a row and is determined to expose the company and its management (and ultimately, while it's usually middle management doing the bullying, the people at the top are nearly always complicit in it).
Record everything, keep an eye on where the cctv is (often there is cctv on a working premises in an area people don't know so don't assume there's no cctv in an area) and let people know what's happening. Word travels fairly quickly in our tiny society.

School assistant bullied by employer gets €255k payout

An Post must pay damages to former Cork postal worker over bullying at sorting office

Well you seem well up on the issue, besides I have never experienced workplace bullying in Ireland so perhaps it's actually taken seriously here, experienced it abroad twenty years ago and management told me to " get over it"

Mad_maxx · 28-11-2018 10:57pm

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

They may be born bad but being a bully makes you a coward because if you wouldn't bully someone your own level or size or someone who could take you on, it makes you a coward plain and simple.

Overly simplistic, most of the world's most powerful people are bullies and its always been this way too.

Daisy78 · 28-11-2018 11:52pm

AllForIt wrote: »

Coming up on Prime Time this evening they are doing a piece on stress in the workplace which reports show has increased over the last few years. A promo for the piece has a guy say "it's dog eat dog in the workplace and some ppl will do anything to get to the top". I wonder how much bullying is part of all of this, it must be a part of it.

Not much pride in getting to the top having stepped on good people along the way. Integrity in the way you do your job is as important as your skillset. Eventually you become known for being a bully boy (or girl!) which in itself brings reputational damage.

10-01-2019 12:33pm

This was the most read story on The Irish Times yesterday evening. A particularly low calibre of manager in every respect. For a 'manager' he doesn't seem to have awareness of the basics of employment law. He also doesn't seem to have been sent on the most basic of managerial courses about respect, what's permissible to say and not to say, professionalism and professional boundaries, and all the other stuff that many of us have an instinctive general sense about. Even a sort of golden rule of 'Treat everybody with respect' could have prevented this. This doesn't mean you must give them jobs you don't think they're capable of. It simply means you are respectful to them as your colleague and as a fellow human being. Basic stuff that avoids workplace volatility and drama and makes everybody else's working environment healthy and stable.

Man wins unfair dismissal case after colleague sprays him with perfume: WRC awards €26,000 to man dismissed after raising bullying concerns with employer

A service manager sprayed perfume on a male colleague and told him “let’s see how you explain that when you get home”, a case before the Workplace Relations Commission (WRC) heard.

The spraying was one of a number of alleged bullying incidents documented by the general operative in his unfair dismissal case.

The WRC ordered his former employer, a winter services firm, to pay him €26,000 after finding that the man was unfairly dismissed two days after he raised his bullying concerns in the workplace.

The general operative told the WRC that the services manager would refer to him as “his bitch” and he alleged the manager turned a fire extinguisher on him while he was working under a car.

He alleged the fire extinguisher incident was later posted on Facebook and members of a motorcycle club that he, the manager and other staff were members of became aware of the matter. The complainant showed the video to the commission as evidence during the case.

The operative told the hearing that he overheard the service manager saying to the managing director that the way to treat the general operative was to knock him down so that he would be built up stronger than before.

The worker alleged that the service manager told him to go home and take Prozac, despite being aware that he was on medication for mental health issues.

The worker eventually decided he could take no more and left his workplace. He emailed the managing director to make a formal bullying complaint against the manager and finished his email by saying he loved the job but should not have had to put up with the behaviour of the manager.

The worker attended a meeting with the managing director two days later, along with the service manager, and was presented with a list of grievances against him which he maintained were false.

The man said he left the meeting due to the absence of any fair procedures and received an email later that day saying he was dismissed with immediate effect.

The service manager denied that bullying had taken place and instead described his interactions with the worker as “banter”.

WRC adjudication officer Gerry Rooney said the evidence supported the complainant’s claim and that it would not be reasonable to refer to the interactions in question as “banter”.

“I find that what appears to have occurred does demonstrate an extraordinary culture of behaviour in the workplace,” he said, adding that instead of dealing with the complainant’s concerns, the employer chose to “summarily dismiss” him instead.

I think when such negative findings against a business are made by the legally constituted authority in this state, the Workplace Relations Commission (WRC), the name of the culprits should be published (but not before that point). I know I wouldn't darken the door of any company which I knew to be tolerating bullying. If somebody found guilty of robbing handbags will be named; a firm which facilitates or exacerbates such mistreatment over a prolonged period of an employee should be named. Maybe firms like this would treat bullying much more seriously if they knew their names would be published and they would lose business?

realitykeeper · 10-01-2019 12:49pm

steddyeddy wrote: »

I work in academia and in an institution where bullying is rife. I haven't been targetted luckily but I work with a technician who bullies several people and got away with it. A senior academic, also involved in the bullying has protected this guy. The university is hesitant to do anything about it as the academic brings in good grant money to the uni. It's a shame as this academic has lost 4 PhD students as a result of her behaviour. I worked in all sorts of jobs from construction to healthcare but academia seems to be the worst for this. Is there any other type of work environment where bullying is present?

I think high achievers tend to receive a lot of praise but perhaps this also makes them spoilt. I am not saying merit should not be rewarded but it should be understood that high achievement is often the consequence of a particular style of parenting and/or genes and/or good health, none of which are the achievements of the high achievers, these things are simply good fortune.

A well balanced person knows not to judge another person whose life they have not lived. A narcisist will try to lever themselves using their collegues as traction or to use an analogy, the narcisist is the spinning tyre and their collegues are the mud.

I suggest letting human resources know so they can sent the bully on a corrective day course.

ANXIOUS · 10-01-2019 12:55pm

Deleted User wrote: »

This was the most read story on The Irish Times yesterday evening. A particularly low calibre of manager in every respect. For a 'manager' he doesn't seem to have awareness of the basics of employment law. He also doesn't seem to have been sent on the most basic of managerial courses about respect, what's permissible to say and not to say, professionalism and professional boundaries, and all the other stuff that many of us have an instinctive general sense about. Even a sort of golden rule of 'Treat everybody with respect' could have prevented this. This doesn't mean you must give them jobs you don't think they're capable of. It simply means you are respectful to them as your colleague and as a fellow human being. Basic stuff that avoids workplace volatility and drama and makes everybody else's working environment healthy and stable.

Man wins unfair dismissal case after colleague sprays him with perfume: WRC awards €26,000 to man dismissed after raising bullying concerns with employer

I think when such negative findings against a business are made by the legally constituted authority in this state, the Workplace Relations Commission (WRC), the name of the culprits should be published (but not before that point). I know I wouldn't darken the door of any company which I knew to be tolerating bullying. If somebody found guilty of robbing handbags will be named; a firm which facilitates or exacerbates such mistreatment over a prolonged period of an employee should be named. Maybe firms like this would treat bullying much more seriously if they knew their names would be published and they would lose business?

I would have absolutely no faith in the WRC findings at all, in particular some of the Adjudication Officers seem to be using this platform as a crusade.

Most notably recently there was a case where a women told her employer she miscarried, so the employer thought she was no longer pregnant a number of weeks/months later is dismissed and wins a case due to pregnancy related dismissal.

fryup · 10-01-2019 2:27pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Nonesense, bullies are often strong individuals, they are just bad and enjoy what they do.

Some people are born bad.

a personality disorder??

nearly all bullies that i've come across in my life both in school & the workplace have two things in common....

1. they're narcissistic and 2. they're control freaks

they thrive on other people's timidness and have to be confronted

AndrewJRenko · 10-01-2019 9:39pm

ANXIOUS wrote: »

I would have absolutely no faith in the WRC findings at all, in particular some of the Adjudication Officers seem to be using this platform as a crusade.

A crusade to stop illegal discrimination perhaps?

ANXIOUS wrote: »

Most notably recently there was a case where a women told her employer she miscarried, so the employer thought she was no longer pregnant a number of weeks/months later is dismissed and wins a case due to pregnancy related dismissal.

You forgot to mention the bit where her manager asked her 'Are you eating Supermacs or are you pregnant?' on the day she was dismissed.

https://www.thejournal.ie/wrc-pregnant-worker-unfair-dismissal-4427275-Jan2019/

beauf · 10-01-2019 9:57pm

I think the issue there was they had no documented process to show why she was dismissed.

That said she hadn't been working there that long I wouldn't have thought they need to give a reason.

Unless the company linked it to the pregnancy through their comments. Which made it about something else entirely.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 10-01-2019 10:04pm

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Interesting comment. Psychopaths are attracted to power jobs like banking medicine and finance. Its not all about killing but controls.

These are sociopaths.

katiek102010 · 10-01-2019 10:19pm

I have seen it in every organisation I worked in, in the UK.

A few years ago I witnessed someone get bullied at work. I gave a statement saying what I saw. The bully got a rap on the knuckles and HR gave a copy of my statement to the bully.

My life was made hell for 4 years. I made numerous complaints, investigations said insufficient evidence. Bully had friends in high places, he came to my house to abuse me. His friend, my sons school principal pulled my sons support in school for his additional needs. His other friend our neighbour was on the property management company in our housing estate. The property management company started writing to us saying we were doing all sorts, it was all lies. Instead we hadn’t paid our fees when we had. Took us to court and added thousands in penalties and dropped it the morning of the hearing.

The more I fought the worse it got, eventually I had CCTV and written evidence and I managed to get him retired on a full pension. They didn’t sack him but the abuse continued at home. I ended up selling up and leaving as I couldn’t get a school place for my son.

This was in local government

The Tetrarch · 10-01-2019 10:19pm

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

These are sociopaths.

"Both psychopaths and sociopaths are capable of committing horrific crimes, but a sociopath is less likely to commit them against those with whom there is a bond."

That "difference between" I found on Google is not comforting to people interacting with a sociopath in the workplace.

con___manx1 · 10-01-2019 11:30pm

My current boss was accused of bullying before he was the boss. He was brought up before hr and everything. This was maybe 4 years before he became the boss. I think some companys like the bullying type in charge.
A collegue of mine was made come in by this boss when he was very sick. Bascially bullied into it. The very next day the guy ended up in hospital and was in there for a week. He is really lucky my colleague didnt report him.

con___manx1 · 10-01-2019 11:48pm

katiek102010 wrote: »

I have seen it in every organisation I worked in, in the UK.

A few years ago I witnessed someone get bullied at work. I gave a statement saying what I saw. The bully got a rap on the knuckles and HR gave a copy of my statement to the bully.

My life was made hell for 4 years. I made numerous complaints, investigations said insufficient evidence. Bully had friends in high places, he came to my house to abuse me. His friend, my sons school principal pulled my sons support in school for his additional needs. His other friend our neighbour was on the property management company in our housing estate. The property management company started writing to us saying we were doing all sorts, it was all lies. Instead we hadn’t paid our fees when we had. Took us to court and added thousands in penalties and dropped it the morning of the hearing.

The more I fought the worse it got, eventually I had CCTV and written evidence and I managed to get him retired on a full pension. They didn’t sack him but the abuse continued at home. I ended up selling up and leaving as I couldn’t get a school place for my son.

This was in local government

Id nearly do time for a prick like that. Thats really terrible . Some people are just scum there is no other word. Hopefully karma catches up with him.

fryup · 10-01-2019 11:56pm

look at this knobend in action ..and just to think he's lauded as some sort of respectable celebrity now...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mz_01tjBwAE

i'd give him a smack in the kisser if he talked to me like that

katiek102010 · 11-01-2019 1:02am

Unions are no good either. Most are in bed with Snr management and try and brush everything under the carpet x

Strumms · 11-01-2019 2:02am

I had limited interactions with Unions.... however my first was not so positive and as a young 19 year old when this incident happened my opinion was slightly colored in a negative light that took a LONG while to shake.

I was working in Dublin Airport in the duty free, a week or two on the shop floor, just dragging product from the sub stores to the main shop store and then stacking shelves, a ‘merchandiser’ was the job title.

I was in the store room on my own when I was approached by two colleagues, same uniform as myself but they worked at a different pier. They identified themselves by first name and their Union involvement and said they would want me to join. I replied that I would like to so they explained a bit about the Union role in the company briefly etc and placed a membership form on the shelf in front of me and asked me to sign. I said I would like to take it home, read it properly and I’d make sure to seek them out the next day with the document signed. Strangly both their demeanors changed considerably at this point and they began to get stroppy. Next thing I know one of them steps forward grabs my arm, jams a pen between my fingers and forces me to ‘squiggle’ on the document.

I was in several minds as how to proceed, do I just go straight off and call the Airport Police ? Inform my manager ? Seek a more senior Union guy or a combination of the above.

Either way I made the decision as an inexperienced newbie to bottle it and that was that. After almost 20 years of non membership and never coming close to joining, back in ‘15 I found myself on the wrong side of a situation where I really could have used their help. The situation resolved itself after much effort and many sleepless nights but I subsequently joined a Union and while I have not joined with any hope or anticipation of needing their help, I believe getting that letter of membership onto your bosses desk as a reminder that they need to
abide by the rules might save you the stress and sleepless nights that being adrift of backup when things go wrong and all the shît that comes with that.

sk8erboii · 11-01-2019 2:07am

Strumms wrote: »

I had limited interactions with Unions.... however my first was not so positive and as a young 19 year old when this incident happened my opinion was slightly colored in a negative light that took a LONG while to shake.

I was working in Dublin Airport in the duty free, a week or two on the shop floor, just dragging product from the sub stores to the main shop store and then stacking shelves, a ‘merchandiser’ was the job title.

I was in the store room on my own when I was approached by two colleagues, same uniform as myself but they worked at a different pier. They identified themselves by first name and their Union involvement and said they would want me to join. I replied that I would like to so they explained a bit about the Union role in the company briefly etc and placed a membership form on the shelf in front of me and asked me to sign. I said I would like to take it home, read it properly and I’d make sure to seek them out the next day with the document signed. Strangly both their demeanors changed considerably at this point and they began to get stroppy. Next thing I know one of them steps forward grabs my arm, jams a pen between my fingers and forces me to ‘squiggle’ on the document.

I was in several minds as how to proceed, do I just go straight off and call the Airport Police ? Inform my manager ? Seek a more senior Union guy or a combination of the above.

Either way I made the decision as an inexperienced newbie to bottle it and that was that. After almost 20 years of non membership and never coming close to joining, back in ‘15 I found myself on the wrong side of a situation where I really could have used their help. The situation resolved itself after much effort and many sleepless nights but I subsequently joined a Union and while I have not joined with any hope or anticipation of needing their help, I believe getting that letter of membership onto your bosses desk as a reminder that they need to
abide by the rules might save you the stress and sleepless nights that being adrift of backup when things go wrong and all the shît that comes with that.

Did those union guys look like this?

https://goo.gl/images/aiqGMz

MaryBrosnan · 11-01-2019 5:00am

Just sleep with your bullies partner is the best revenge.

Chris_Heilong · 11-01-2019 7:35am

Just plainly say to them, "oh are you bulling me?", based on their response it could be escalated up to HR. Some times talking straight is what works best as all these 'unspoken rules' and stuff like that is why most people in all facets of society are miserable.

12-01-2019 12:25am

fryup wrote: »

look at this knobend in action ..and just to think he's lauded as some sort of respectable celebrity now...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mz_01tjBwAE

i'd give him a smack in the kisser if he talked to me like that

It's hard to know whether Ramsey is being a humiliating prick for the cameras, or curtailing his bullying prick nature because of the cameras. It's revealing the sort of people these "reality" shows promote as their stars. It's as if these shows would all wither away unless they were based upon humiliating people and being nasty. Fine role models indeed.

Again, more weapons on a cooking "reality" show trying to outdo each other with nastiness, the new "acceptable normality" for impressionable younger people watching:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AmMKUHxQ7I

steddyeddy · 12-01-2019 12:46am

In terms of bullying I have never seen a place as bad as the UK for allowing it to flourish. That includes Tanzania and Sumatra. It really is an ineffecient country.

Bullying in the workplace

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