Tenant put key meter in without my knowledge

tvjunki · 22-11-2018 9:26pm #1

How to remove prepay power meter?
I have a tenant put a key meter in without my knowledge. I found out when she let slip that she had to top it up. She has just moved out and said it would cost her to remove it and told me to get it out myself. Still have deposit.
I hate these meters and for the company putting it in without my knowledge is not acceptable. Also the electric is economy 7 so with the meter it must be costing her a fortune than paying the normal way.

TomOnBoard · 22-11-2018 9:38pm

tvjunki wrote: »

How to remove prepay power meter?
I have a tenant put a key meter in without my knowledge. I found out when she let slip that she had to top it up. She has just moved out and said it would cost her to remove it and told me to get it out myself. Still have deposit.
I hate these meters and for the company putting it in without my knowledge is not acceptable. Also the electric is economy 7 so with the meter it must be costing her a fortune than paying the normal way.

Whose name is on the account?

LollipopJimmy · 22-11-2018 9:41pm

The company don't need LL permission to put it in.

Anyway, pick a supplier, register with them and the company who own the meter will deactivate once you go off their supply which takes a few days. You can leave the dead meter in situ or have it removed. Frankly, a prepay meter is handy in a rental property, you'll never be stung with a bill

colm_mcm · 22-11-2018 9:41pm

Silver lining is at least she hasn’t left a huge bill behind.

johnnyskeleton · 22-11-2018 9:52pm

These are the yolks from the 80s that you put 50p in and it gives you a day's electrity or whatever? Then at the end of the month you open it up and have your money for the bill?

colm_mcm · 22-11-2018 9:53pm

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

These are the yolks from the 80s that you put 50p in and it gives you a day's electrity or whatever? Then at the end of the month you open it up and have your money for the bill?

No. It’s a prepay meter.

OldMrBrennan83 · 22-11-2018 9:54pm

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

These are the yolks from the 80s that you put 50p in and it gives you a day's electrity or whatever? Then at the end of the month you open it up and have your money for the bill?

They're a bit more advanced now. You buy a voucher in the shop or top up online and there's no bill.

garhjw · 22-11-2018 10:53pm

OP, keep deposit until it is removed and the wall it was mounted on is back the way it was beforehand - there are likely holes drilled, paint gone etc. I had issues getting 1 removed by the provider so got my electrician to do it.

Ginger83 · 22-11-2018 10:59pm

LollipopJimmy wrote: »

The company don't need LL permission to put it in.

Anyway, pick a supplier, register with them and the company who own the meter will deactivate once you go off their supply which takes a few days. You can leave the dead meter in situ or have it removed. Frankly, a prepay meter is handy in a rental property, you'll never be stung with a bill

But the tenant would.

Fol20 · 22-11-2018 11:51pm

As others have said. Withhold deposit until removed and keep whatever it costs you to get it remove and or damages on the wall. Keep receipts for everything.

tvjunki · 23-11-2018 12:20am

garhjw wrote: »

OP, keep deposit until it is removed and the wall it was mounted on is back the way it was beforehand - there are likely holes drilled, paint gone etc. I had issues getting 1 removed by the provider so got my electrician to do it.

Thanks for the heads up.
This is going to be fun. I am now going have to be there when the company takes the key meter and wait around until it is done. I did not know the wall mounted box was screwed into the wall inside the house. Why don't they just leave it next to the wall?
Meter in tenants name. I don't think she expects her deposit back some how. She said house not properly cleaned as she said she as not had a chance to do it.

tvjunki · 23-11-2018 12:27am

LollipopJimmy wrote: »

The company don't need LL permission to put it in.

Anyway, pick a supplier, register with them and the company who own the meter will deactivate once you go off their supply which takes a few days. You can leave the dead meter in situ or have it removed. Frankly, a prepay meter is handy in a rental property, you'll never be stung with a bill

Problem with leaving key meters in is the tenant does not put the heating on and mould appears in the rooms as they think it costs too much.

Victor · 23-11-2018 12:35am

LollipopJimmy wrote: »

Frankly, a prepay meter is handy in a rental property, you'll never be stung with a bill

If the account is in the tenant's name, the landlord can't be stung (for the bill) anyway.

engiweirdo · 23-11-2018 12:37am

So tenant prevented you from being left with a major bill. Prepay meter is simple, new tenant registers with their details and starts with clean slate, no pre-existing debt. Literally did you a favour and all you can think of is punishment(keeping deposit) and how you feel hard done by and have a bunch of cheerleaders to back you up. The Irish landlord is indeed a special kind of low. No doubt you have a sob story about how "accidental" your landlord job is too....

AmberGold · 23-11-2018 12:43am

engiweirdo wrote: »

So tenant prevented you from being left with a major bill. Prepay meter is simple, new tenant registers with their details and starts with clean slate, no pre-existing debt. Literally did you a favour and all you can think of is punishment(keeping deposit) and how you feel hard done by and have a bunch of cheerleaders to back you up. The Irish landlord is indeed a special kind of low. No doubt you have a sob story about how "accidental" your landlord job is too....

As the utility would have been in the tenants name the landlord would never have been left with a bill.

No favour has been done, it shouldn’t have been installed without permission and should be removed at the tenants cost. These are the facts, simple.

vintagecosmos · 23-11-2018 12:43am

Price to have it removed and wall put back to normal and deduct from deposit. Simples.

Tenant is obligated to pay for damage.

23-11-2018 12:45am

engiweirdo wrote: »

So tenant prevented you from being left with a major bill. Prepay meter is simple, new tenant registers with their details and starts with clean slate, no pre-existing debt. Literally did you a favour and all you can think of is punishment(keeping deposit) and how you feel hard done by and have a bunch of cheerleaders to back you up. The Irish landlord is indeed a special kind of low. No doubt you have a sob story about how "accidental" your landlord job is too....

The LL wouldn’t have been left with a bill regardless once the account was in the tenants name (which it obviously was as they changed to prepay nonsense). You obviously have no idea how bills work if you think the LL would be left with a bill.

The tenant is in the wrong here and deserves to have the deposit retained until the costs of returning the house to what it was have been covered.

engiweirdo · 23-11-2018 12:47am

AmberGold wrote: »

engiweirdo wrote: »

So tenant prevented you from being left with a major bill. Prepay meter is simple, new tenant registers with their details and starts with clean slate, no pre-existing debt. Literally did you a favour and all you can think of is punishment(keeping deposit) and how you feel hard done by and have a bunch of cheerleaders to back you up. The Irish landlord is indeed a special kind of low. No doubt you have a sob story about how "accidental" your landlord job is too....

No favour has been done, it shouldn’t have been installed without permission and should be removed at the tenants cost. These are the facts, simple.

Opinion not facts. No landlords permission is needed. No cost is incurred by the landlord. But sure keep the rentier pity party going. Wont anybody say a prayer for the poor landlords of Ireland.

23-11-2018 12:49am

engiweirdo wrote: »

Opinion not facts. No landlords permission is needed. No cost is incurred by the landlord. But sure keep the rentier pity party going. Wont anybody say a prayer for the poor landlords of Ireland.

Permission is most certainly required if adding a new meter which involves physical changes to the property. You haven’t a clue and/or are blinded by some anti LL bias you have.

AmberGold · 23-11-2018 12:57am

engiweirdo wrote: »

Opinion not facts. No landlords permission is needed. No cost is incurred by the landlord. But sure keep the rentier pity party going. Wont anybody say a prayer for the poor landlords of Ireland.

Is it not a fact that the Landlord is incurring costs returning the property to its original condition?

tvjunki · 23-11-2018 12:57am

engiweirdo wrote: »

So tenant prevented you from being left with a major bill. Prepay meter is simple, new tenant registers with their details and starts with clean slate, no pre-existing debt. Literally did you a favour and all you can think of is punishment(keeping deposit) and how you feel hard done by and have a bunch of cheerleaders to back you up. The Irish landlord is indeed a special kind of low. No doubt you have a sob story about how "accidental" your landlord job is too....

Prepay power is a rip off. I think of the tenant paying over and above for electric and they are being robbed.
For all you know that tenant could have pre existing bill from their previous house and are carrying it to this one?... Don't assume everyone has a clean slate as you say. These meters are not always the best.

I want it out so the next tenant does not pay the huge rates. 19cent I think a day on top of standing charge and energy use.
we are not all bad landlords.

questionmark? · 23-11-2018 12:59am

colm_mcm wrote: »

Silver lining is at least she hasn’t left a huge bill behind.

Rubbish. No landlord should ever have the bill in their name when the property is rented out so should never get 'stung'.

tvjunki · 23-11-2018 1:06am

engiweirdo wrote: »

Opinion not facts. No landlords permission is needed. No cost is incurred by the landlord. But sure keep the rentier pity party going. Wont anybody say a prayer for the poor landlords of Ireland.

This is a fact not opinion..There is a cost. I had to get a gas key meter removed from another place and it cost 200. No deposit left due to me not taking a full deposit. Gave a tenant a chance but never again.Rent in arrears. I had to wait half the day for the gas engineer to call out to remove it. There is a cost to a persons time.

TomOnBoard · 23-11-2018 1:07am

Not much love being shown to the tenant here.

That said, how was a prepay meter installed without the LL giving written permission? The supplier may have been remiss here.

23-11-2018 1:10am

questionmark? wrote: »

Rubbish. No landlord should ever have the bill in their name when the property is rented out so should never get 'stung'.

There are situations where it makes sense for the LL to keep the bills in their name in fairness for instance if letting rooms separately as there is usually a tenant turnover and the constant moving around of bills is awful hassle. In these instances prepay power does make sense though most LL who do it just continue to use normal bills and almost never have hassle from it.

I’ve rented rooms in house share where the bills were in the LLs name and where the tenants had them and it was a massive pain when they were in tenants names as every few months a bill would have to change, hassle with breaking contracts, hassle with readings, hassle with getting things done right it was an absolute pleasure in comparison when all we had to do was open the LLs bills and pay them.

TheChizler · 23-11-2018 1:12am

Wouldn't it work out easier for everyone if you just left it there but deactivated? Unless it's very ugly on the wall or something I don't see any real reason to remove it.

LollipopJimmy · 23-11-2018 8:49am

tvjunki wrote: »

This is a fact not opinion..There is a cost. I had to get a gas key meter removed from another place and it cost 200. No deposit left due to me not taking a full deposit. Gave a tenant a chance but never again.Rent in arrears. I had to wait half the day for the gas engineer to call out to remove it. There is a cost to a persons time.

That's gas, not electricity.

Blazer · 23-11-2018 8:53am

colm_mcm wrote: »

Silver lining is at least she hasn’t left a huge bill behind.

They can still leave a bill. You're charged a daily rate outside of usage.
Depending on how long ago she stopped stopping it up there could be money due on it.
When I moved into a house a few years back there was over 150 euro due on it. Landlord never checked it and I had to top it up on the day we moved in.
I immediately cancelled it and make sure the landlord reimbursed me for it.
So be wary. Cancel it asap.

Xcellor · 23-11-2018 9:43am

TheChizler wrote: »

Wouldn't it work out easier for everyone if you just left it there but deactivated? Unless it's very ugly on the wall or something I don't see any real reason to remove it.

I'm not a land lord but if someone I rented a house to decided to make changes like this I would want it undone. i.e. if you decide to paint the house grand provided its painted back to what it was beforehand... Regardless of if it's ugly or not leaving sh*t behind is not on.

LollipopJimmy · 23-11-2018 9:51am

Blazer wrote: »

They can still leave a bill. You're charged a daily rate outside of usage.
Depending on how long ago she stopped stopping it up there could be money due on it.
When I moved into a house a few years back there was over 150 euro due on it. Landlord never checked it and I had to top it up on the day we moved in.
I immediately cancelled it and make sure the landlord reimbursed me for it.
So be wary. Cancel it asap.

The prepay companies will clear any outstanding balance if proof can be shown, a dated lease is enough. Also the two main players in that market have dedicated account managers for landlords.

As a landlord these meters supply a safety net, the property won't be disconnected and possibly left without power for 10 days (which can happen if there is a debt flag with ESBN). Self disconnection can be sorted quickly and easy.

When they are removed the engineer fills the holes also.

beauf · 23-11-2018 10:02am

I've had seen a good few occasions where electricity suppliers have transferred an out standing bill from a tenant to the landlord. Even to a bill on one property to an another property. All were resolved with the tenants and supplier after a lot of arguing.

So regardless if the supplier is allowed to do this, they do it.

Same with getting reconnected the landlord has a problem if the won't re connect after someone doesn't clear their last bill.

Really these bills should stay with the person not the property. The utilities could be an lot more progressive with how they deal with rentals.

A prepay meter has its issues but it solves many hassles too.

LirW · 23-11-2018 10:33am

Could it be that the tenant went into arrears previously and the electricity supplier put them on a pay meter to clear the arrears?
It sometimes happens that the supplier has a deal with people in arrears that they are put on metered supply and pay for their usage and a small percentage of their arrears every time they top up.

TheChizler · 23-11-2018 10:54am

Xcellor wrote: »

I'm not a land lord but if someone I rented a house to decided to make changes like this I would want it undone. i.e. if you decide to paint the house grand provided its painted back to what it was beforehand... Regardless of if it's ugly or not leaving sh*t behind is not on.

Sure I'd be annoyed if they did that without my permission, but ultimately if the paint was done well, was in good condition, and suited the room then why go to the effort of changing it?

Same with the meter, why go to the effort of arranging to have it removed, taking half a day off work, filling and painting over the holes, if it's not doing any harm? The next tenant might even be happy to have the option of using it.

Now in principle I'm completely against these prepay electricity plans, but not principled enough to go to the bother of removing them in a house I'm not living in.

The J Stands for Jay · 23-11-2018 10:54am

In the past, as a Tennant, I've avoided places with prepaid meters for electricity or gas.

TheChizler · 23-11-2018 10:56am

McGaggs wrote: »

In the past, as a Tennant, I've avoided places with prepaid meters for electricity or gas.

Why so? Was the landlord insisting on using them? That would put me off all right but that's not what's going on here.

runawaybishop · 23-11-2018 11:11am

TheChizler wrote: »

Why so? Was the landlord insisting on using them? That would put me off all right but that's not what's going on here.

Because they are expensive.

runawaybishop · 23-11-2018 11:13am

engiweirdo wrote: »

So tenant prevented you from being left with a major bill. Prepay meter is simple, new tenant registers with their details and starts with clean slate, no pre-existing debt. Literally did you a favour and all you can think of is punishment(keeping deposit) and how you feel hard done by and have a bunch of cheerleaders to back you up. The Irish landlord is indeed a special kind of low. No doubt you have a sob story about how "accidental" your landlord job is too....

The tenant didn't do anyone a favour. Those prepay meters are more expensive than nearly any other provider, if I was a potential tenant they would put me off a property.

The tenant should have gotten permission before getting it installed and failing that should have had it removed when she left.

Try sticking to facts next time.

TheChizler · 23-11-2018 11:15am

runawaybishop wrote: »

Because they are expensive.

Yes but unless the landlord is insisting on using them you don't have to (and that's even debatable whether the ll can force you to use a particular supplier).

runawaybishop · 23-11-2018 11:20am

TheChizler wrote: »

Yes but unless the landlord is insisting on using them you don't have to (and that's even debatable whether the ll can force you to use a particular supplier).

Not much debate, the landlord can insist if they want.

Prepay power and the like often charge a fee to remove or deactivate the meter. Who is going to sort that out if the tenant is gone and won't pay it? It takes ages to sort out.

TheChizler · 23-11-2018 11:25am

runawaybishop wrote: »

Not much debate, the landlord can insist if they want.

Prepay power and the like often charge a fee to remove or deactivate the meter. Who is going to sort that out if the tenant is gone and won't pay it? It takes ages to sort out.

Yes but that's irrelevant to this thread as the OP is not insisting on them using the meter, in fact pretty much the opposite.
It's possible to leave the meter there deactivated for free, why go to the expense (time off work, repainting the wall) and effort of removing it when you can just do nothing and give the next tenant more options?

The J Stands for Jay · 23-11-2018 12:01pm

TheChizler wrote: »

Why so? Was the landlord insisting on using them? That would put me off all right but that's not what's going on here.

You can tell it was years ago, because I was able to pass up on a rental

.

I didn't like the extra cost and the hassle of topping up. I remember visiting friends with one in NI and the power going out and they had to run out to buy a voucher.

It was also pointed out to me that the installation costs are to be paid through the top ups and that it's possible they could also be paying off arrears.

A lower cost direct debit just seemed easier.

runawaybishop · 23-11-2018 12:02pm

TheChizler wrote: »

Yes but that's irrelevant to this thread as the OP is not insisting on them using the meter, in fact pretty much the opposite.
It's possible to leave the meter there deactivated for free, why go to the expense (time off work, repainting the wall) and effort of removing it when you can just do nothing and give the next tenant more options?

Oh I agree, I would just leave it myself but I have no idea what it looks like, maybe it's fugly and in a prominent position?

LollipopJimmy · 23-11-2018 12:24pm

runawaybishop wrote: »

Prepay power and the like often charge a fee to remove or deactivate the meter. Who is going to sort that out if the tenant is gone and won't pay it? It takes ages to sort out.

No they don't. Fee's would have been applicable to the tenant if they broke contract. There is no removal fee and it's usually sorted in one or two phonecalls

There is a fee for gas meter removal but this is a charge from GNI but again, always sorted very quickly

TheChizler · 23-11-2018 1:09pm

McGaggs wrote: »

You can tell it was years ago, because I was able to pass up on a rental .

I didn't like the extra cost and the hassle of topping up. I remember visiting friends with one in NI and the power going out and they had to run out to buy a voucher.

Certainly wouldn't happen today!

I've heard of landlords insisting on using them all right. I think I lived in a place with one a few years back, don't remember clearly because we changed over to a regular supplier day one and just ignored it.

TheChizler · 23-11-2018 1:09pm

runawaybishop wrote: »

Oh I agree, I would just leave it myself but I have no idea what it looks like, maybe it's fugly and in a prominent position?

Which would be fair enough!

The_Conductor · 23-11-2018 7:22pm

TheChizler wrote: »

Wouldn't it work out easier for everyone if you just left it there but deactivated? Unless it's very ugly on the wall or something I don't see any real reason to remove it.

Lots of tenants will consider a property to be of a poorer standard or setup for council tenants- if it has a prepay meter installed. When I was renting- I always asked for a sizeable discount if there was a prepay meter- as aside from any other reason- the electricity on them is so damn expensive- its only fair to give a tenant a discount if they are expected to use one of these.........?

Sir Oxman · 23-11-2018 7:40pm

runawaybishop wrote: »

Because they are expensive.

No one has to use them if installed.
If you move in you simply request a bill account with your provider.

tvjunki · 23-11-2018 9:32pm

Contacted electric ireland to be told get onto prepay power to take the account out of tenants name. Gave electric ireland meter.
Rang prepay power and went though a string of press 1 for press 2 for eventually got trough to someone who said I had to connect electricireland first.
20minutes later esb in my name. Now gave to ring prepay to get them to remove the meter and give forward address for tenant. Still don't know if there is a charge. 26euros in arrears on prepay machine due to tenant not putting money in account so no power to the house. Two boxes on the wall with wires tacked along the wall.

tvjunki · 23-11-2018 9:35pm

Sir Oxman wrote: »

No one has to use them if installed.
If you move in you simply request a bill account with your provider.

I don't think you can. They work on funds being topped up in a shop on a card.

LollipopJimmy · 23-11-2018 9:36pm

tvjunki wrote: »

Contacted electric ireland to be told get onto prepay power to take the account out of tenants name. Gave electric ireland meter.
Rang prepay power and went though a string of press 1 for press 2 for eventually got trough to someone who said I had to connect electricireland first.
20minutes later esb in my name. Now gave to ring prepay to get them to remove the meter and give forward address for tenant. Still don't know if there is a charge. 26euros in arrears on prepay machine due to tenant not putting money in account so no power to the house. Two boxes on the wall with wires tacked along the wall.

Electric Ireland got that arse about face, not uncommon. I take it you've signed up with them now anyway, once prepay see the notification from ESB they will give a deactivation code and the meter will be dead on the wall. In all honesty I'd leave it there.

denismc · 23-11-2018 9:50pm

When we bought our place 2 years ago the house had one of these prepaid meters installed. We just rang the ESB and had it switched back to normal bill pay. The prepaid meter is still there along side the original meter.
I really don't see why you would physically remove this as it is not very big and sits in the meter box out of sight.
If you are a landlord I would have thought it would be beneficial to have one of these.

Tenant put key meter in without my knowledge

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