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Fixing an immersion heater

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  • 19-02-2019 8:43pm
    #1
    IsisElektra
    Registered Users Posts: 19 ✭


    Slightly awkward situation here at the moment. Took our landlord to the rtb for multiple infractions, including landlord neglect of obligations, entitlement to peaceful occupation of dwelling and much much more. We had 132 pages of evidence, the landlord had zero. There were so many issues that the adjudication had to take place over two separate days, one of which the landlord didn't attend. The adjudication order was given in our favour, but the landlord appealed and we ended up having a tribunal. We are not aware as yet of the outcome of the tribunal but are fairly certain our complaints will be upheld.
    This has of course, resulted in a lot of bad feeling between us and the landlord and here is the dilemma..

    Our immersion heater broke yesterday (this happens at least yearly due to lime). In the normal course of tenant/landlord relations we could and should contact the landlord for him to replace it. Given that one of our complaints was about him not allowing us peaceful occupation of the property (he was coming to the house 5+ times a week to pursue his hobbies in the shed he erected in the back garden, causing extreme anxiety to my boyfriend who has quite severe mental health problems) I was reluctant to contact him about the immersion and so we have bought and replaced a new immersion element. We have done this before and taken the cost of the element from the rent and we'll do so again of course this month.

    However, are we in our rights to charge him for the time and skill it too to do this job along with the cost of the element itself? Had he had to engage a plumber obviously this would have cost him a lot more money than that price of the element alone, so I'm wondering if we can legally be able to add in the cost of the time it took to replace it.
    Many thanks in advance for your replies


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    #2
    dudara
    Registered Users Posts: 33,519 ✭✭✭✭dudara


    If you haven’t agreed with him in advance, then IMO you’re not entitled to deduct anything. I know you’re in an acrimonious situation, but why inflame it by withholding rent?

    Also, are you a qualified electrician? Again, if I was the landlord I’d be livid that repairs to systems that combine electricity & water were being made without prior approval and without proper registered tradesmen.


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    #3
    IsisElektra
    Registered Users Posts: 19 ✭IsisElektra


    My boyfriend is a an electrical engineer and also had replaced the thing yearly at no cost to the landlord other than the one time last year when we gave him the receipt and took it off the rent, which he was perfectly happy about, obviously as we saved him not only aggravation but also money for installation costs.
    So yeah my question was mostly about whether to charge him a fixed price for the work that my boyfriend did


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    #4
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    IsisElektra wrote: »
    My boyfriend is a an electrical engineer and also had replaced the thing yearly at no cost to the landlord other than the one time last year when we gave him the receipt and took it off the rent, which he was perfectly happy about, obviously as we saved him not only aggravation but also money for installation costs.
    So yeah my question was mostly about whether to charge him a fixed price for the work that my boyfriend did

    Is your boyfriend certified to replace the part?

    Can he provide a receipt for the work? Is he declaring the addition revenue?


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    #5
    dudara
    Registered Users Posts: 33,519 ✭✭✭✭dudara


    An electrical engineer is not a qualified and registered electrician. There is a difference.

    If you’re going to charge the landlord for time incurred, then you’re going to have to have some professional basis on which to charge him.


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    #6
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    dudara wrote: »
    An electrical engineer is not a qualified and registered electrician. There is a difference.

    If you’re going to charge the landlord for time incurred, then you’re going to have to have some professional basis on which to charge him.


    Also as your boyfriend is not qualified to repair the immersion then you are potentially open up yourself to issues.....


    I dont see how an immersion can be breaking every 12 months because of lime?


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    #7
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    You have no right to deduct anything from the rent without the landlords permission.

    Or to put it another way. Should you decide to deduct anything from the rent, the landlord is entitled to issue you with a notice of rent arrears.


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    #8
    IsisElektra
    Registered Users Posts: 19 ✭IsisElektra


    No not employed here, but yeah think we have the answer thanks so much to all for your time. Yep the house is so badly maintained (the original reason we went to the rtb) that yrs, it is quite literally once yearly we have to replace immersion


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    #9
    IsisElektra
    Registered Users Posts: 19 ✭IsisElektra


    So im just going to charge for the part. The rtb will uphold the rest I know this. Thanks everybody I appreciate the input


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    #10
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,816 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Poor maintenance does not increase the amount of limescale in the water and I'm not aware of anywhere in the country where there's enough to destroy one annually. I live in an area bad enough to have people frequently trying to sell softeners door-to-door and they take far longer than that to go. Its definitely, absolutely not the built in trip going off - usually a paperclip reset button on the top?

    You would be going through three or four kettles a year if immersions were dying that fast solely from limescale.


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    #11
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    L1011 wrote: »
    Poor maintenance does not increase the amount of limescale in the water and I'm not aware of anywhere in the country where there's enough to destroy one annually. I live in an area bad enough to have people frequently trying to sell softeners door-to-door and they take far longer than that to go. Its definitely, absolutely not the built in trip going off - usually a paperclip reset button on the top?

    You would be going through three or four kettles a year if immersions were dying that fast solely from limescale.


    electric showers, washing machines, kettle etc would all be going at a huge rate.....not a hope in hell it is the immersion going.....


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    #12
    tvjunki
    Registered Users Posts: 601 ✭✭✭tvjunki


    This is a no no touching electrics.

    Your boyfriend has broken the law by installing or touching anything electrical in the house. The electrical certificate for the house is now void because it was carried out by an uncertified electrician.

    If a fire were to occur your landlord insurance is now void and your landlord is entitled to recover an losses from your boyfriend.

    Also your landlord can give you notice for doing work without an registered insured installer and without his authorisation. He now can bring you to rtb and you will be fined and your boyfriend. You cannot deduct from your rent.
    Expect 14days notice..
    Big mistake.
    If your landlord is that bad and the house is that bad move..

    I do hope your landlord does report your boyfriend. Electicity is dangerous you are not only endangering yourself but could be endangering you neighbours if a fire breaks out.


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    #13
    liam7831
    Registered Users Posts: 2,817 ✭✭✭liam7831


    Anyone have Des Bishops number


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    #14
    _Brian
    Registered Users Posts: 18,485 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    Surely a tenant illegally interfering with the electrics of a house is grounds for ending the tenancy ??
    They are endangering themselves and any future tenants.


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    #15
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    _Brian wrote: »
    Surely a tenant illegally interfering with the electrics of a house is grounds for ending the tenancy ??
    They are endangering themselves and any future tenants.

    Of course it is, automatic and no deposit as well to cover the cost of proper electrician to come in and do it properly

    If the house burned down as mentioned the landlord could go after them for the money....


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    #16
    spaceHopper
    Registered Users Posts: 3,968 ✭✭✭spaceHopper


    Can't be much money at vest you could ask him for the cost of the element and not anything extra but I'd let it go for the sake of peace and quiet. How every the ll may want to look at a water softener


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    #17
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,295 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    IsisElektra wrote: »
    So im just going to charge for the part. The rtb will uphold the rest I know this.
    [DR EVIL]EVIL LAUGH[/DR EVIL]

    No, seriously. You're giving the LL an ace. He'll give you 14&28 days notice, and get you booted for not paying rent.
    IsisElektra wrote: »
    We have done this before and taken the cost of the element from the rent and we'll do so again of course this month.
    Reminding him that you did it before will give him another ace; he'll ask for a receipt/proof that you used a certified electrician, and use this against you.

    Reminding him of how you're BF breaks the law every year will go against you.


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    #18
    IsisElektra
    Registered Users Posts: 19 ✭IsisElektra


    "Big mistake.
    If your landlord is that bad and the house is that bad move..." Well that's helpful in these days of housing crisis. Our landlord IS terrible, even his solicitor admitted so. Finding a new house is a somewhat different matter and not so easy. Our landlord pretty much makes us do all the repairs here, think roof leaking for 6 years, that wasn't, however the question, but than you everyone for your input


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    #19
    IsisElektra
    Registered Users Posts: 19 ✭IsisElektra


    L1011 wrote: »
    Poor maintenance does not increase the amount of limescale in the water and I'm not aware of anywhere in the country where there's enough to destroy one annually. I live in an area bad enough to have people frequently trying to sell softeners door-to-door and they take far longer than that to go. Its definitely, absolutely not the built in trip going off - usually a paperclip reset button on the top?

    You would be going through three or four kettles a year if immersions were dying that fast solely from limescale.
    I don't use a kettle,, although if I did I imagine we probably would be doing so. All I can say is that it can, and does happen were we live. The fact that it happens is not in question, the question was can I charge for labour on a repair done by us,, and it seems the answer is no, so that's that. But thanks for your input


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    #20
    MrMusician18
    Registered Users Posts: 7,238 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    IsisElektra wrote: »
    I don't use a kettle,, although if I did I imagine we probably would be doing so. All I can say is that it can, and does happen were we live. The fact that it happens is not in question, the question was can I charge for labour on a repair done by us,, and it seems the answer is no, so that's that. But thanks for your input

    You can't charge for the part either (not without prior permission) nor should a non certified electrician carry out the work.

    When you are already in dispute, I cannot fathom why you'd give him any ammo. Especially when you observe alternative accommodation would be hard found.


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    #21
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    IsisElektra wrote: »
    "Big mistake.
    If your landlord is that bad and the house is that bad move..." Well that's helpful in these days of housing crisis. Our landlord IS terrible, even his solicitor admitted so. Finding a new house is a somewhat different matter and not so easy. Our landlord pretty much makes us do all the repairs here, think roof leaking for 6 years, that wasn't, however the question, but than you everyone for your input

    I would never take the word of a solicitor as an indicator, especially if they ain’t getting paid if they answer one way

    Some landlords will allow you with permission to get repairs done and then you provide receipt

    This does not mean you get random people with no qualifications to carry out those repairs and then charge the landlord for it


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    #22
    tvjunki
    Registered Users Posts: 601 ✭✭✭tvjunki


    IsisElektra wrote: »
    "Big mistake.
    If your landlord is that bad and the house is that bad move..." Well that's helpful in these days of housing crisis. Our landlord IS terrible, even his solicitor admitted so. Finding a new house is a somewhat different matter and not so easy. Our landlord pretty much makes us do all the repairs here, think roof leaking for 6 years, that wasn't, however the question, but than you everyone for your input

    So you are there 6years and never had the time to find somewhere else to live? Surely you could ask friends if they know of a place going or register with agencies for a property? There are properties out there and there are people moving into and out of tenancies.

    Dont forget your boyfriend can get a fine or even prison for tampering with electrics.
    I do hope your landlord reads this site as I would be worried about my property if I knew a tenant had touched electrics without being registered or insured.
    At the end of the day your landlord may not have been the best landlord but he is the landlord you are staying in his property.


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